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The Suppressive Doctrine on Trial: Opening Statement by Gerry Armstrong

Smurf

Gold Meritorious SP
Okay....I've been won over. My apologies to Caroline, and to a lesser extent Degraded Being. I just re-read Caroline's earlier post on this thread. #24 on page 3......

.....and I've seen the light. Alex Gibney's new documentary film Going Clear is trouble. It can't be trusted. Mr. Gibney aligned himself with the evil Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder. It is actually a subtle, yet powerful Black PR piece that in effect helps Scientology and is apologetic toward Hubbard. Oh yes. It's true. I can't believe I didn't see it before. :duh:

You see by convoluting the meaning of Suppressive with Sociopathy, Gibney is simply doing Rathbun's and Rinder's bidding to prove that Hubbard was right all along about declaring people Suppressive and ordering disconnection. Yep. This new film vindicates Hubbard. It also misdirects the audience on the whole "secret deal with the IRS" thingy.

bart-strangle-gif.gif
:biggrin:
 

Elronius of Marcabia

Silver Meritorious Patron
Funny how you don't call out Caroline or Gerry for Black PRing Marty and Mike with essentially a false accusation. In my book that's very Hubbardian.

If it's not truly a false accusation it is one that greatly streeeeeeetches credulity. But anyway, they're once again trying to cast a bad light on the two fellas at a, well let's just say a very convenient time.

Shoot, also in a response to me Caroline or Gerry even had something less than nice to say about Alex Gibney and Lawrence Wright. Interesting.

But I guess that either flew under your radar or you just give the Armstrongs a pass. Sorta like you gave Lerma a pass.

Either way.....Whatever dude.

Implying and whining and then dismissing the strawman ya built :notworking: :hysterical:
 

Smurf

Gold Meritorious SP
Moderator 3;1015657[I said:
How much flog
Must a dead-horse log
'Til a dead-horse is
Logged as flogged.
[/I]

Do you realize that, depending on it's age, flogging a dead horse can tenderize the meat? Yummm.. :biggrin:
 
Okay....I've been won over. My apologies to Caroline, and to a lesser extent Degraded Being. I just re-read Caroline's earlier post on this thread. #24 on page 3......

.....and I've seen the light. Alex Gibney's new documentary film Going Clear is trouble. It can't be trusted. Mr. Gibney aligned himself with the evil Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder. It is actually a subtle, yet powerful Black PR piece that in effect helps Scientology and is apologetic toward Hubbard. Oh yes. It's true. I can't believe I didn't see it before. :duh:

You see by convoluting the meaning of Suppressive with Sociopathy, Gibney is simply doing Rathbun's and Rinder's bidding to prove that Hubbard was right all along about declaring people Suppressive and ordering disconnection. Yep. This new film vindicates Hubbard. It also misdirects the audience on the whole "secret deal with the IRS" thingy.

And you thought it was doing the opposite! Tsk Tsk.

But probably the worst offense Gibney did was to ignore Gerry Armstrong.

But we know why he did. Oh yes. It's because those damn "Rs".....Rathbun and Rinder got to him and Black PR'd Gerry, lied about the SP Doctrine, and now this film is just all messed up. Tainted. Rindered useless.

:melodramatic:


:melodramatic: Very appropriate for much of the thread this morning. It is not really that important to me. Interesting to some degree, yes. But even my barren existence is more satisfying and rich than the melodrama here.
Choose your own smiley.
 

Lone Star

Crusader
:melodramatic: Very appropriate for much of the thread this morning. It is not really that important to me. Interesting to some degree, yes. But even my barren existence is more satisfying and rich than the melodrama here.
Choose your own smiley.

Well we'd better step up the melodrama then!

I thought it was richer than a barren existence!! The M tech is out!

:melodramatic:
 

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
Elronius of Marcabia, Neither Gerry, Caroline nor Arnie need anyone to defend them. They believe they are right and others who don't agree are wrong. They have made their opinions known. So have others. Try to speak for yourself and not for others. The comments on this thread are yet more attempts to dialogue, to reason where reason seems to be choked out by claims unfounded.

I learned that defending a 'friend' does not mean one should lose one's integrity in the process. Neither does dissension or non-agreement on something said or written equate to making nothing of all the good these people have said or done in the past. No one here is flawless.
 

Elronius of Marcabia

Silver Meritorious Patron
Tell Arnie "Hi"for me.

Oh I guess he can read this thread actually.

You're representing well though. Helping Arnaldo to "expose" the "noisy nick". Maybe get me to ad hom and get banned before the 29th. Lol...

you still whining and working that strawman routine, still not working :yes:
 

Elronius of Marcabia

Silver Meritorious Patron
Elronius of Marcabia, Neither Gerry, Caroline nor Arnie need anyone to defend them. They believe they are right and others who don't agree are wrong. They have made their opinions known. So have others. Try to speak for yourself and not for others. The comments on this thread are yet more attempts to dialogue, to reason where reason seems to be choked out by claims unfounded.

I learned that defending a 'friend' does not mean one should lose one's integrity in the process. Neither does dissension or non-agreement on something said or written equate to making nothing of all the good these people have said or done in the past. No one here is flawless.


Not a defense just my observations, don't buy into old lonesomes spin.

I think I've been here long enough for people to know I speak my mind and for myself only:coolwink:
Thanks for the advice Mary:)
 

anonomog

Gold Meritorious Patron
Gerry commented on Mike Rinder's PRing the Scientologists’ practice of “disconnection” in the recent TimesTalk discussion and on his blog.



Scientology's "SPs" should never be equated with "sociopaths," any more than Jews should be. It is completely wrong and it beastifies our classes.

Disconnection is a scriptural application of the Suppressive Person doctrine.

Gerry's Response to Rinder re Disconnection: http://gerryarmstrong.ca/archives/1344


I really don't get all the angst about using the word sociopath.

I think it is helpful in getting never ins to get a broad idea of what SP means to scientologists. (Without putting them through the tedious hell of Hubbard's scriptures.)
Personally I feel I have only so much RAM left over from my never-in life, I really don't want to waste it on some mentally unstable dead guy's ramblings, I'm not writing a thesis on it. I don't think I'm alone in thinking that and I do have a strong interest in the subject. Very few people are going to be bothered to find out exactly what an SP is, even less will care. IRL it is meaningless, useless information.

Whether you love him, hate him or are neutrally indifferent, it is clear Mike Rinder has an understanding of his audience and what information is important and how to pitch it. Be it from a natural talent or experience, it doesn't matter, it is effective. Rinder and Haggis gave a quick widely understandable comparison while moving on with what is truly important, their stories, other people's stories, history and experiences. That is what will remain in people's minds, the human experience of it all. The people Rinder and Haggis have reached, will not equate all ex-scientologists with sociopath's because the story they are telling makes it quite obvious they are not.

If you were given a very rare and precious 5 second opportunity to:

-send a memorable message
-to a huge international audience of the general public
-who have no dog in the fight, might not even know what dogs are
-many of whom are multitasking

What would you say?
 

Caroline

Patron Meritorious
I heard that too.

Where did you hear that?

From a declaration Gerry executed January 13, 1994 and filed in Scientology v. Armstrong 4, Marin Co. Superior Court, No. 157680:

Gerry Armstrong said:
24. The idea of giving away my house, TGAC [The Gerald Armstrong Corporation] stock and other assets, and forgiving all debts owed me, came to me in August, 1990. This idea, which I consider Divinely inspired, came, I believe, in answer to my prayer during that period requesting guidance concerning humanity's condition, and specifically the then developing Middle East crisis following Iraq's August 2, 1990 invasion of Kuwait. I was moved by media reports of the invasion, the global tension, and the daily events of Desert Shield, and I sought to know what, if anything, God wanted me to do. The idea of renunciation of worldly wealth, although coming at that time as a surprise, and unclear as to the details for its accomplishment, was not altogether illogical because I had long recognized that money, greed and power motivated much of the madness that made human beings war against each other.

[…]

26. During my years inside the Scientology organization I was subjected to L. Ron Hubbard's very different philosophy and practices concerning treasure, value and his brand of ethics. In the few times he mentions God in his writings, Hubbard attempted to mock Him, and he ridiculed the thought of Heaven. In his "upper level" secret directives Hubbard wrote that Christ is an implant, a Scientology term meaning a fixed idea electronically installed by force and pain to control and suppress its human victim. In exchange for money paid for his pricey psychotherapy Hubbard promised the worldly treasures of increased IQ, better communication skills, power, physical health, and the ability to make even more money. Unable to deliver on these secular promises, however, Hubbard and his organization, in response to the thousands of people who have been defrauded and requested refunds pursuant to his "money-back guarantees," have employed an army of lawyers to con our courts with the idea that these representations are "religious" and the ill-gotten and often extorted payments "donations." Hubbard stated as his organization's financial "Governing Policy," MAKE MONEY....MAKE MONEY. MAKE MORE MONEY. MAKE OTHER PEOPLE PRODUCE SO AS TO MAKE MONEY. The United States Tax Court thought this policy so noteworthy it quoted it in its official reports in Church of Scientology of California v. Commissioner of Internal Revenue, 83 TC 381 (1984) at 422. Hubbard and his organization justified their uncharitable policies and nature with a concept he called "rewarding downstats," which meant that the unable, infirm and poor should not be helped because helping such persons only rewarded them for being unable, infirm or poor. A related Hubbardian "truth" which permeated the organization was that people "pull in" the bad things which happen to them; that is, they bring upon themselves, or deserve, their difficulties or tragedies. This concept is used not only to excuse Hubbard and his organization's disregard for human suffering in all its forms, but to extol the suffering they have heaped on their "enemies." The attack on, for example, writer Paulette Cooper to ruin the woman (the organization's intelligence bureau under Hubbard's direction, in a scheme called "Operation Freakout," which had as its stated purpose to either get her imprisoned or driven insane, obtained through trickery her fingerprints on sheets of paper which were then used to send "anonymous" bomb threats to political figures) was right, "pro-survival" and ethical, because Ms. Cooper pulled it in. While this idea supports the Scientological group psyche in its organization, and in the entity it presents as plaintiff and defendant in our courts, its policy, philosophy and psychology do not allow the application of the same idea to L. Ron Hubbard or to the power structure that replaced him after his death in January, 1986. It is forbidden inside the organization even to think a critical thought about Hubbard or Scientology, and grounds to be declared "fair game" to expound either the idea that perhaps he may have done something to pull in some of the names he's been called; e.g., bigamist, bully, charlatan, cheat, liar, megalomaniac, swindler, wife beater; or that just maybe some of the persons the organization attacks do not deserve it. This double and twisted standard that Hubbard implanted in the Scientological mind keeps the organization's employees and customers ignorant of wisdom and blind to the madness of their actions, words and appearance. But reasonable and rational non-Scientologists are not blind to these things, as shown herein in the Breckenridge decision (Ex. B) and the Ideman declaration (Ex. F). Hubbard was shrewd enough to understand that even to the brainwashed a persona of "egoism, greed [and] avarice" (Ex. B, p.9, l.2) would trigger rejection; thus in public and in the legal arena he applauded his generosity and flatly denied the suggestion of inurement, In a public relations piece that went to every Scientologist in the world, and to any non-Scientologist who wanted one and many who didn't, he wrote that for all his work in saving mankind he was paid less than an average organization staff member. I was an average staff member during this assertion's international dissemination and I was paid between $4.30 and $17.20 per week. Hubbard paid himself untold millions. He had complete control of the organization and all organization bank accounts, and concocted amazing schemes for international money laundering; all while having his organization's personnel swear in civil litigation, criminal cases and official investigations that he had resigned as Scientology's director in 1966 and from that date had played no part in the organization's management. In keeping with his secret affirmations that "all men are my slaves," and "I have the right to use men's minds as I please," by which he programmed himself in the early days of his "development" of Dianetics and Scientology, he kept his workers impoverished while he ripped off millions illegally from the "charitable" corporations in which they labored. The new power structure has embarked on a glossy PR campaign in which it laments that all Scientology services aren't free and that it needs to charge what it does to "help create a safe and pleasant environment for everyone." A more accurate statement of the organization's fiscal philosophy is the article in the May 6, 1991 Time magazine, on the cover of which over an erupting octopodous monstrosity is blazoned "Scientology - Cult of Greed." I know personally a great number of people who have been victimized, abused, ripped off and discarded for no other reason than to satisfy the power structure's avariciousness. It is my knowledge of this cult of greed and the threat its leaders think I am to their shaky house of fraud that has brought them and their attorneys to attack me so relentlessly. I acknowledge that it is possible to view the giving away of my possessions in 1990 as a reaction to the years of inculcation with Hubbardian greed and meanspiritedness; but I do not see it that way. Hubbard and his organization were never able to destroy in me my God-given nature. Even inside the organization, in circumstances which made charity, compassion and understanding dangerous activities, Hubbard and his enforcers were never able to achieve total suppression. They were not successful with me, and I believe it will be ultimately shown that they will not have been successful with anyone; nor is suppression of anyone by any regime, state or entity entirely successful. It is our God-given nature that brought every person into Scientology and the Sea Org, and willing to live, work, fight for a cause, and endure terrible abuse, without thought of profit, bank accounts, investments or retiring. In his abuse of that divine nature Hubbard proclaimed it a "high crime" to even discuss retiring with one's fellow Scientologist workers. My analysis is that the use of our highest nature by an individual or organization for purposes not in our best interest; that is to say, suppression, is not merely not religion, it is irreligion; and as irreligion it should be stood up to and seen for what it is. My position in the litigation is that, by justice, law, this country's constitution, and God's Will, I am free to communicate that analysis in all the ways it can be said and by any means and media there are to say it.

[…]

33. Even though I was aware of Jesus's admonition to his disciples to not be troubled by wars and rumors of wars (Mark 13, 7; Luke 21,9), I was undeniably affected by the media images of Desert Shield as it built into Desert Storm and the international diplomatic drama that accompanied the military operations. I had already been moved, I felt, to enter the political and sociological landscapes, as I believe is shown by the letter to the captors, "Crash Course" and their recipients lists. I had also considered and argued in these other political matters - the hostages, the economy - that something could be done about them, and that what I thought could be done was, at least on paper, a better idea. It was not out of the ordinary or out of character, therefore, for me to consider that I could do something about Desert Shield, Desert Storm or the whole blessed Middle East. It was at that time that the idea came to me to give away my worldly possessions and to give myself to the cause of peace. After some thought, I transferred my interest in Fawn to Mr. Walton, divided my one hundred percent ownership of TGAC equally between my friends Nancy Rodes, Michael Douglas, Lorien and Mr. Walton, and forgave all debts owed to me. I knew by this time that our Source is also the source of everything, including money, and that He would provide for me all that I would need to carry out His work. I also was fully aware that I was engaged with the organization on the legal battlefield, and although I was confident of the outcome, I had no idea what would happen on the road toward that day. I recognized that the organization's ruling clique was motivated by the same forces of money, greed and power that made men war against each other and that my renunciation was spiritually directed at bringing peace for the organization no less than the rest of the world. And, as I stated above, I accepted the fact that should my legal battle with the organization continue I would more likely than conceivably litigate indeed in forma pauperis. I communicated my decisions to everyone directly affected by them, took care of the paperwork needed to make the decisions legally effective, and tied up various loose ends. It became clear to me that the renunciation had left me unattached and free to travel wherever I was called should I be. I gave my car to Lorien, but she returned it, and we took a trip together during September through the western states and British Columbia to develop a sociological concept that had come to me. When we returned to California Lorien moved to Santa Cruz and I, not then being called to go elsewhere, stayed at Fawn where I worked on some house and grounds projects, continued to maintain TGAC's office, and kept picking up trash. I also came up with what I thought was a good plan for resolving the Middle East crisis and I communicated this plan to various media and certain leaders or envoys I thought were in positions to do something about it. In my letter to Saddam Hussein of November 1, 1990 I offered, as I had with the Lebanese captors in 1987, to exchange myself for the hostages then being held in Iraq; but I did not sweeten the deal with my interest in a house, as I had done in the earlier offer, because I had already conveyed it to Mr. Walton. Copies of this letter, my November 7, 1990 letter and list of addressees to which they went, my December 10, 1990 and January 10, 1991 letters are appended hereto as Exhibit .

[…]

55. TGAC, defendant in Armstrong II, III and IV, possesses, cares for and commercially develops my products and is in the business of peace. Appended hereto as Exhibit [PP] are pages from Pacific Bell's Marin yellow pages for 1992 and 1993, wherein TGAC is listed in the category "peace organizations." TGAC also provides philosophic services in a number of other areas of human endeavor and understanding, such as law, religion, health and economics. It is a unique company with unique, both banausic and beneficent products. It has not yet become financially profitable, but I believe that is merely a matter of time, and I am not unhappy that TGAC's buildup toward profitablity has taken the form, route and time that it has. It has also become apparent to me that the litigation in my life may very well require resolution before TGAC is free to tackle the problems and projects for which it was created. But no matter what conspiracy theories the organization and its lawyers fabricate, TGAC was not created to have anything to do with it, its litigation or its philosophy. TGAC's founder, owner, president, manager, senior baker and vice president for questions and loopholes, just happened to be a person with a long, intense history with the organization, which has its own long, intense history. No matter what kind of business I had gotten into I would have brought with me the same history; which is now, six years and three more Scientology lawsuits later, even longer and no less intense. No matter what kind of business, or enterprise, profession, career or club I had gotten into the organization would have carried out the same set of post-settlement fair game sillinesses to keep me involved with its litigation and its leaders. I happen to have been given certain talents, knowledge and identity by my Creator. I am a writer, thinker and artist, and thus my words, art and ideas exist, and some of them TGAC happens to own and possess, and, God willing, will develop commercially.

56. When I activated TGAC at the beginning of 1988 I transferred to the corporation all my writings, artwork, files and office equipment and supplies that I had previously owned in my sole proprietorship. At that time I owned all TGAC stock, TGAC owned all my archive materials, and I had an arrangement with TGAC whereby my products and acquisitions of an artistic or literary nature passed to the corporation as I produced or acquired them. Because the organization had continued to attack me following the December, 1986 settlement, because I am connected to many people with an interest in the resolution of the organization's war on justice and innocence in our society, and because I have been placed in a position to do something to bring about that resolution, a certain quantity of my literary acquisitions have been organization-related materials. In the fall of 1989, after the series of threats from organization attorney Heller, I made a determined effort to acquire whatever organization-related materials I could, sensing that they would be needed in the attacks I also sensed were coming. In August, 1990, at the time of my renunciation, I split TGAC's stock into four shares and gave them away with the rest of my assets as described in paragraph 33 above. I had the hope and belief, which I still retain, that TGAC would be a commercial success, and that the four owners, all close friends of mine, would benefit monetarily and have a lot of fun with the corporation. I continued as TGAC's president, continued to produce, and TGAC continued to care for its growing archive. From the organization's actions and statements in the Yanny II litigation, wherein it had taken my deposition on several days in late 1991 and early 1992, and its actions and statements in the Armstrong II litigation, where it had served a subpoena duces tecum on the corporation, it became clear that the organization was going to try to get its itching mitts on TGAC's archive, invade its privacy and attack it as a way of attacking me. On June 22, 1992, at a special meeting of TGAC's directors, it was therefore decided, in order to remove any reason for the organization to attack the corporation, to transfer to me, Gerald Armstrong individual, everything in TGAC's archive which related to the organization or my litigation, and this transfer was effectuated the same day. I still sensed that the organization was not going to be dissuaded from its kamikaze course, and I still wanted to protect TGAC's owners, whose only crimes were being my friends and accepting my gift of stock certificates. I knew as well by this time that the organization's leaders are paranoid, schizophrenic, proudly describe themselves as "ruthless," and would destroy any innocent person if it served their purpose in attacking me. On June 23, therefore, I met with each of the four who each decided at that time to give back to me his or her shares. In that way these people would not become targets in the organization's mad litigation war, and I would have the freedom, as TGAC's major stockholder and president, to fight the war on behalf of the corporation as I was called. Two of the four, Michael Douglas and Nancy Rodes, had signed settlement agreements similar to mine with the organization in December, 1986, so were particularly vulnerable and worried in the organization's attempt to make TGAC its litigation enemy. In August, 1990 each of the four had received one share. In early, 1991 by agreement between the shareholders, the four shares were split into one hundred, and each shareholder had given 5 shares to the corporation to sell to finance its operations. Thus on June, 23, 1992, I received back eighty percent ownership of TGAC (see also para. 21, supra, and Ex. L, p. 556, 557). This proved to be a divinely timed move because on June 24 I was served with the organization's amendment to the Armstrong II complaint, naming TGAC as a defendant. Because of my financial condition and the stress of the organization litigation, which has rendered me over the past three years completely incapable of dealing with certain clerical tasks, which even ordinary people who are not fair game's targets can easily perform, TGAC owes the IRS and the Franchise Tax Board a couple of years' returns, but that is only a temporary situation, which I expect to resolve in the next few weeks. Yet even TGAC's failures to file seem to be divinely timed because it surely disproves Mr. Wilson's Armstrong IV attack line that " [T]GAC exists solely so that Armstrong may be "judgment proof" (Ex. A. p. 5, l. 7). Only a madman would, when assaulted by this organization's litigation machine and needing to be judgment proof, let his judgment-proofing corporation approach suspension. I am neither mad nor in need of any protection from any judgment the organization imagines in its wild dreams it might obtain. I own eighty percent of TGAC, and TGAC owns a body of literature and art with considerable present value and potential. It owns the rights to a number of my projects and products, including whatever can be owned of the formula for the Unified Field, which I was given not long after August, 1990. TGAC has a history and a lot of good will. TGAC did not invite the organization's attacks, and even urges the organization to dismiss all the litigation it has fomented against TGAC. Nevertheless, TGAC will undoubtedly garner more good will, good PR and societal acceptance as a result of the organization's attacks, because society often judges one's worth by one's enemies. Although no one should have to have enemies, the organization's power structure, being so villainous, is, in the minds of the vast decent human majority, the best kind of enemy to have. TGAC's present value is in the neighborhood of fifteen trillion dollars, so the organization's claim of four point eight million is monetarily insignificant. Nevertheless, and but for other reasons I will fight this battle.


From Declaration of Gerald Armstrong (January 13, 1994), with exhibits.

Btw, TGAC is pronounced Teegeeack.
 

Lone Star

Crusader
Caroline I just had a realization from going through a couple of you posts from last night, and that is I think you are alleging that the whole "SP vs. Sociopath" issue is involved in part with how the cult got it's IRS tax exemption victory.

More specifically, you are alleging that Rathbun continues to give credence to Hubbard's policy of SP declarations in an effort to cover up how the cult got that victory since he himself was a key player, and that Gerry discovered this in 1997.

Am I understanding this correctly? Because if so then THAT is truly a fascinating and important subject in which most if not all would love to know more about. The focus on the SP vs. Sociopath stuff was sorta, "Huh?" But if it is related to a bigger story, such as the IRS, then it makes more sense.

There's no doubt that we all want Rathbun to talk about the IRS tax exempt status granting of 1993.
 

Elronius of Marcabia

Silver Meritorious Patron
Caroline I just had a realization from going through a couple of you posts from last night, and that is I think you are alleging that the whole "SP vs. Sociopath" issue is involved in part with how the cult got it's IRS tax exemption victory.

More specifically, you are alleging that Rathbun continues to give credence to Hubbard's policy of SP declarations in an effort to cover up how the cult got that victory since he himself was a key player, and that Gerry discovered this in 1997.

Am I understanding this correctly? Because if so then THAT is truly a fascinating and important subject in which most if not all would love to know more about. The focus on the SP vs. Sociopath stuff was sorta, "Huh?" But if it is related to a bigger story, such as the IRS, then it makes more sense.

There's no doubt that we all want Rathbun to talk about the IRS tax exempt status granting of 1993.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
 

Intelligence

Silver Meritorious Patron
SNIP

This is why some refuse to sign them. A great lesson was learned by others at Gerry's expense.

His buddy Arnie refused. David Love refused. Debbie Cook didn't. It's a personal choice. If you want to speak out, don't sign the gag, no matter what. Here are some examples

VERDICT: Scientology’s Quebec rehab facility violated human rights of David Love and 2 others
Apr 11, 2014


And he didn't. They worked it out so that the other 2 people could sign a gag and collect the money due them. David did not accept a penny or sign a gag on this one.

On the Labor case, no gag. Just limited non-disclosure


https://whyweprotest.net/threads/da...bought-by-narconon.117924/page-2#post-2444520

I don't usually jump into many threads, just lurk and read, but this post by Mary, I will comment on.

RE:
'A great lesson was learned by others at Gerry's expense.'

My 3 cases and the other 2 victim's cases before the Human Rights Commission was a 3 year battle that took a toll on all 3 of us.

When I sat with my 2 Commission lawyers for over 2 hours debating the Gag Order, I kept reflecting back about what I read in Gerry's case.
Although my case was small compared to his, the same tactics were being used on me to sign, If ALL THREE didn't sign, Narconon would not
pay a dime to anyone.

I can't even imagine in full, what Gerry went through when he read the Gag Order and was pressured to sign. I respect all that Gerry did over
the years to expose this evil cult and to help me, and I thank him. Indeed, Gerry's case helped me to NOT sign the Gag Order.

The Gag Order that the other 2 victims signed is so suppressive that the victims can not even admit to ANYONE that they were even at Narconon,
and if they talk to ANYONE or post any comment about what happened to them at NN, they must pay the settlement $$$ back plus $$$ for each
time or comment they make. Although their lawyer was not happy with the Gag Order conditions, the victims just wanted the battle to end and
move on with their lives and families. I am still friends with one of the victims but I never bring up Narconon ... ever. I don't need to ask, I am the one
who helped draft their complaints, and other Affidavit documents and such over 3 years.

One final point and I'll stop this off-topic post (sorry). I like what John Sweeney yelled, 'YOU WERE NOT THERE ... YOU WERE NOT THERE'!!!

When I refused to sign (before I sent the dox to Ortega), I went through a living hell with the pressure from the other 2 victims, and thoughts about
being able to fly back home to Vancouver from Montreal and be with and help my children with the Moral and Punitive $$$ damages award.

I probably only slept for 2-3 hours per night for 2 weeks. I was being followed (documented), harassed (SP Doctrine - DA FG) for years, and even more so
as the Commission was nearing their verdict. Because I filed a Lawsuit against NN and the COS, I can't comment further while the case crawls in the Court.

But once I decided to give the cult the bird finger and send the dox to Ortega first, then other media, I then called my children to say I wasn't coming home
and could not help them with what I had hoped I could. They understood WHY ... my daughter cried :bigcry: ... me too ... but I can still look in the mirror, I can still
say what I want, I can still write and post what I want without any fear whatsoever.

This is just my opinion, but I think things happen for a reason, especially for me. I am happy, I have no anger, bitterness, or hate against anyone,
in fact, this Human Rights Commission ordeal made me a lot stronger ... and my very close and dear friends like Mary and Lori, and many others,
keep me smiling.

I wish the very best for Gerry, Caroline, Marty, and Rinder.:yes:

Once again, sorry for this long, off-topic post. Cheers.:thankyou:
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
Caroline/Gerry,

Mike Rinder has a blog. Marty Rathbun has a blog.

Both the blogs accept comments. Both have email addresses.

Neither one of them reads this message board, as far as anyone can tell.

If you have a beef with Mike or Marty, why not take it up with Mike or Marty?

What is your reason for bringing it up here?

No one here can handle this for you, since your issue is with two people who don't even read this board.

If resolving something with them is actually what you're trying to do, I would recommend actually communicating with them be your first step.
 

Caroline

Patron Meritorious
Caroline I just had a realization from going through a couple of you posts from last night, and that is I think you are alleging that the whole "SP vs. Sociopath" issue is involved in part with how the cult got it's IRS tax exemption victory.

No, I am not alleging that.

But your post reminded me of something I wanted to bring up about the "SP=Sociopath" meme that the Scientologists have been "dinging in."

The Scientologists' "SP=Sociopath" meme is of course essentially what Hubbard got Scientologists to accept, and Scientologists keep each other accepting. Hubbard's other words for SP include "Merchant of Fear," Merchant of Chaos," "Antisocial Personality," "Aberrative Personality," "NCG (No-case-gain)," "List 1 Rockslammer," "Insane person," etc.

Gerry and I observed the "SP=Sociopath" meme also among the "independents," who were supposedly repudiating the antisocial aspects of Scientology, and telling the truth, as early as "The Truth Rundown." I wrote to Amy Scobee about it in 2009 on OCMB: "Dear Loyalist Think Tankers."

In their IRS 1023 submission, the Scientologists stated:

Our consistent view has been that the civil litigants are solely motivated by greed. The exception is Armstrong who we truly believe to be psychotic. During the 1980’s, the IRS used every single civil litigant against Scientology as an IRS witness. The government, however, has no business in taking sides in a religious or civil dispute. It is indeed ironic to note that once the Flynn civil litigation in the 80’s was settled, with the exception of Armstrong, we hear no more of their “horror stories” from these paragons of virtue claiming to be interested only in “principle” and “what is right.”

From CSI 1023 Submission: Response to Question 10 [Civil litigation involving the Church] (November 23, 1992)

All the fair game that the Scientologists have heaped upon Gerry Armstrong they did to someone they truly believe is psychotic. How could this "religiously motivated" behavior not violate public policy? This is one of a thousand reasons the SP doctrine is on trial.

More specifically, you are alleging that Rathbun continues to give credence to Hubbard's policy of SP declarations in an effort to cover up how the cult got that victory since he himself was a key player, and that Gerry discovered this in 1997.

Am I understanding this correctly?

No.

Rathbun did many things. One of them was to justify his criminal and antisocial acts against decent individual citizens with the Suppressive Person doctrine. That includes acts against the SP class, notably Gerry, in pursuit of tax exemption, and in keeping it once grabbed. However, the Scientologists' SP doctrine does not justify criminal acts against citizens any more than the Nazis' Jewish doctrine justified crimes against Jews. Rathbun, Rinder and others are apparently keeping the SP doctrine working to justify their not telling the truth about their public policy violations, again notably against Gerry.

The doctrine itself has to be against public policy. Unfortunately, the Scientologists have been quite successful in keeping the public ignorant of just how criminal and indefensible their doctrine is. I believe the public should learn the truth, and obviously a person acting on such a belief takes a risk and can take a lot of abuse.

One of our concerns is what the Scientologists and their co-conspirators, including Rathbun, do or do not do to correct their criminal, tortious and antisocial actions against Gerry. Some of those actions involve the IRS. See, for example, this collection of IRS documents.

From the Introduction to the Armstrong Op:

Gerry Armstrong said:
Over the past few months, Caroline and I have been assembling documents concerning the “Armstrong Operation,” and wanted everyone to know about the site, and be able to assist in the op’s sane resolution. Possibly, some people have known all about this for years; and, of course, controlling Scientologists – Miscavige, Rathbun, Rinder, et al. – and a slew of Scientology attorneys and other agents have known much more than I do from much earlier. US Federal Government personnel in different departments have known all about it almost as long. Certainly I know my own actions in the op — with the recognition that even the best of memories fade, in a long war, and in any life. But it is the Scientologists’ op, not mine, and only very recently have I put together some key pieces. There is more to discover, naturally, and the Scientologists have conspired to conceal and lie about the op’s facts and evidence. I am making the materials I have available to help in this discovery process.

[...]

Obviously the IRS accepted the negotiated statements that justify its grant of tax exemption. Obviously too, the IRS would not have granted the tax exemption without the negotiated statements. There are many pages I’ve now found of black PR on Flynn and me that the IRS solicited, and knew to be false. The IRS did not contact me at any time to verify, refute, clarify or contextualize the Scientologists’ claims about me. Hubbard’s death took care of the inurement problem the Scientologists had with the IRS. But a criminal conspiracy does not take care of their public policy problem. It confirms that the tax exemption is unmerited and unlawful.

From About the Armstrong Op

Because if so then THAT is truly a fascinating and important subject in which most if not all would love to know more about. The focus on the SP vs. Sociopath stuff was sorta, "Huh?" But if it is related to a bigger story, such as the IRS, then it makes more sense.

There's no doubt that we all want Rathbun to talk about the IRS tax exempt status granting of 1993.

Rathbun talking about the IRS deal is not what Gerry and I want. Rathbun has already talked about it, but he has lied when he has talked about it. He has also, of course, also lied about the SP doctrine. We want him to tell the truth about the IRS deal, about the SP doctrine, and about fair gaming SPs, specifically. We don't want him to go on talking and never telling the truth about these evils. We want him to tell the truth in a form that can be used by his fair game victims.

Fair game, of course, is the most vital application of the Suppressive Person doctrine.
 

MrNobody

Who needs merits?
No, I am not alleging that.

But your post reminded me of something I wanted to bring up about the "SP=Sociopath" meme that the Scientologists have been "dinging in."

The Scientologists' "SP=Sociopath" meme is of course essentially what Hubbard got Scientologists to accept, and Scientologists keep each other accepting. Hubbard's other words for SP include "Merchant of Fear," Merchant of Chaos," "Antisocial Personality," "Aberrative Personality," "NCG (No-case-gain)," "List 1 Rockslammer," "Insane person," etc.

<snip>

Caroline, I still don't get what it is that you might want from us.

All the words you listed,

SP, Sociopath,"Merchant of Fear," Merchant of Chaos," "Antisocial Personality," "Aberrative Personality," "NCG (No-case-gain)," "List 1 Rockslammer," "Insane person," etc.p.p.

have one thing in common: They have (AFAICS) no clear (no pun intended) legal or medical definition. For the world at large, they're just useless, meaningless noise.

You know what? I call you a Jofoklpü and a Yaqwertzuiop right here, right now. Now what? Wanna sue me for that? Call me one of M&Ms servants? Go ahead, have fun with that. :biggrin:
 
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