Discussion in 'Human Potential, Self Discovery' started by Teanntás, Apr 10, 2017.

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  1. EZ Linus

    EZ Linus Patron with Honors

    I was just reworking my memoir/manuscript today and I ran into this, one of the big "regrets" of my life. I will try to shorten it up so it's not so wordy, but it's to make a point about taking care of your parents at the end of their lives.

    The biggest regret in my life is that I have wasted so much of my time and energy, trying excruciatingly hard not to be my mother, not to be my father, or my brother, or a bad person. I’ve tried, with all my might to be a person my father would approve of, to be someone God would approve of. To be worthy, smart, or successful. And I’ve tried hard to be someone my mom would approve of, which was to appear rich, pretty, or skinny.
    I’ve been consumed with guesses of what they’ve all wanted from me. And I came to the tough realization that I was never really in their thoughts to begin with, and that’s been extremely hard to swallow.

    Because not being noticed, and not being seen (or needed) is much much worse than not living up to someone’s else’s expectations.
    I only wish I could go back with the knowledge I have now and tell my younger self to stop flailing around and come up for air, but unfortunately, like most kids, I wouldn't listen.

    I bring this up because when both my parents needed care in the end, I actually felt useful. And I liked that feeling. I was never of any use to them before that. It gave me a chance to be of some kind of service to them. It made me important to them. That was all I ever wanted. It was my pleasure. I didn't even want the acknowledgement, much less any apologies from them, but I sort of received those too -- from my dad of all people (a WWII vet). Eight months later, my mom died too, but she was in dementia and it turned her into a very appreciate person. VERY surprising. I had forgiven them (or however forgiveness can be processed to the umpteenth degree) a decade before all of this. I think they came to forgive themselves on their way out. My brother and I made it safe and easy for them to do that.

    I think "forgiveness" is thrown around a lot like a rag doll. People say they forgive their parents for beating them with a stick or worse. Someone else hears that and wonders what is wrong with them that they can't forgive and then beats themselves up for not being the Dali Lama. I think there is a lot to be said in being seen. Being understood. Once I understood my parents or my abusers, or Hubbard, or whoever I felt did wrong to me, I let a lot go. Maybe not everything, but I was able to walk towards a healing place, or at least turn my face toward the light of it. I'm not sure forgiveness is completely possible for certain things and I think that is absolutely fine. Understanding is a lot more realistic. I completely understand why my mom and dad were who they were. And I feel unconditional love and compassion for them and their circumstances.

    Do I forgive what they did to me? Sometimes. I know they left this world knowing I loved them.

  2. cleared cannibal

    cleared cannibal Silver Meritorious Patron

    Something I did get out of Scn is that I no longer fear death. I am not sure that it caused so much emotional pain that I welcome it or if I gained a deeper spiritual understanding of life and death. I do tend to accept life as it comes now. Really the only thing that makes me sad about death is the thought of my memories and knowledge dying. I think children are an attempt to keep these alive.
    As far as children I think they are a way in which we try to continue to live after our time here is gone. Really a selfish reason to have them.

    There has been some talk about the elderly. So many elderly I have seen in nursing homes seem to hang on not because they want to live but because they don't want to die.

    A question I asked myself once . If everyone on earth wants you dead ,do you still want to live? My answer was yes for now. We effect so many w/o ever knowing it. If you are honest with yourself you will know if you are a force for good and should be alive. A truly evil person will not ask this and they for sure will not give an honest answer.

    Glenda I don't know why you left but you had to be strong to do it. Almost all of us here would have had an easier time at least in the short run if we had stayed in. There are two kinds of people who stay in Scn, the cowards and those who are not honest with themselves and I really think it comes down to cowardice by not being honest to yourself. You don't write a post like this if you are not honest with yourself. Looking at yourself is not for the faint of heart.

    Bottom line I think those who remain in Scn are cowards by not having the intestinal fortitude to look deep inside and know what is truth.

    After thinking a minute about it I want to add something. Another reason to remain in Scn is that if you have looked inside and see it for what it is and use it to get and maintain power over others, in other words an SP to use the lingo.
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2017
  3. Glenda

    Glenda Gold Meritorious Patron

    I'm glad you lost the fear of dying from your experience with scientology. It is much easier to live without the fear of dying getting in the way or at least that has been my experience.

    It does take strength to leave scientology (and other cults). One can get very broken in the process of taking the big leap out of it. I would never have left had I known what was ahead of me. The cowards stay and those that let their internal fears get played on by the truly evil also stay. If you stay, or you stay in the mind-set, you have to act out the colours of the internal darkness of the soul-destroying (of self and others) mind-controlling system. You can't stay on any other terms. And you can't even sit on the fence (i.e. "I don't support the corporate structure but I believe in the tech..."). To do so is to simply perpetuate the internal blindness.

    I left scientology because of an epiphany. Fabulous, fiery and fierce, everything changed. Everything. I wanted the choices I had previously thought I held to continue. Those choices all dissolved in a few short moments. I had to leave scientology, no matter the cost, no matter the consequences.

    I've been thinking about your last sentence:
    "After thinking a minute about it I want to add something. Another reason to remain in Scn is that if you have looked inside and see it for what it is and use it to get and maintain power over others, in other words an SP to use the lingo."

    Yes. There are serious power and control issues involved. To always feel "right" and "superior" and take that smugness into every encounter with other people, is the life of the average scientologist.
  4. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    I finally have time to catch up on this great thread.

    I think the only thing I regret is not trusting myself more than I did and not being kind to myself as the lack of both made me take paths that were very harsh. I've mostly come to terms with that though sometimes the tears are still there, but 'what ifs' don't help anything and will not repair my family or heal my body.

    My elderly parents died a couple of years ago (UTR exes), also my ex husband (scientologist) and a darling friend who was 82. The one that affected me most was the latter. She had an elegant dignity and taught me so much about 'the normal world' in a few short years. We had long conversations about her life, her acceptance of impending death and her preparation for it and she taught me well. Memories of her wonderful humour still get me through the day and most of all her acceptance of me for being who I was and am. I think I was a personal challenge for her, one of her last projects ... she said to me once, "You didn't look very good when you moved in and look at you now!" - like a proud mum. I accept my parents did the best they could as scientologists, yet this lady gave me more parenting than either had, even at my age. And her way of accepting her own serious challenges with grace was the best teacher of all. There's the word - acceptance. If we can do that and get on with making life as enjoyable (not a word with any meaning in scientology) and kind as possible, there will be little to regret.
  5. cleared cannibal

    cleared cannibal Silver Meritorious Patron

    This superiority feeling has been went over ad nauseam in a way but the importance can't be over stated. Scn does not have a corner on the market on this, though they consciously try to cultivate it.

    I think all religions have this as a draw and retainment tool though Scn takes it orders of magnitudes higher. The feeling of moral superiority is a drug ,an addiction. If you are not glad you are not longer under its influence you are not fully recovered and I might add still in danger. If not from Scn then from something else in which you get this same euphoric feeling. Really I think it so powerful of drug that we all are susceptible under the right conditions.

    I still wrestle if organized religion is possible w/o this. You can even throw political ideology into this mix.(global warming anyone?) Should the journey into the spiritual world ,the journey to heaven be one you take by yourself? Could what is right for you be wrong for someone else?
  6. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Spoton, CC! :goodposting:

    How powerful is our instinct to portray superiority in order to somehow get ahead in the human pecking order?

    How powerful is our instinct to socialize as a group, to join the group euphoria of perceived superiority over other groups?

    Sometimes, powerful enough to overcome or warp rationality or compassion.

  7. phenomanon

    phenomanon Front door security.

    This is so true!
    Downright Profound!:goodposting::goodposting::goodposting::goodposting::goodposting::goodposting::goodposting::goodposting::goodposting:
  8. F.Bullbait

    F.Bullbait Oh, a wise guy,eh?

    A feeling sharing by all humanity. Our tendency to prejudice make us, in a backhanded way, all brothers & sisters.

  9. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    I keep wanting to read your book EZ Linus.

    A couple of pages of posts back I was going to suggest you write another book. Now that you are doing some rewrite I see this is good, I get to read both your books in one.. and see, your growth is causing more growth... And oh, dont make it perfect...'cause then it would not be life or wordly it? :wink2:
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2017
  10. Teanntás

    Teanntás Silver Meritorious Patron

    I've been enjoying and benefiting from the great contributions to the thread. And now I listened again (several times) to Edith Piaf's 'Non, Je ne regrette rien"

    Here's an Anglais translation

    No, I regret nothing

    No, nothing at all,
    No, I regret nothing
    Not the good things they did to me
    Nor the bad -- may as well be the same to me!

    No, nothing at all,
    No, I regret nothing.
    It's bought and paid for, wiped away, forgotten,
    I don't give a damn about the past!

    With my memories
    I've lit up the fire
    Of my troubles, my pleasures,
    I don't need them any more!

    Wiped away the romances
    And all their instabilities
    Swept away for eternity
    I restart at zero

    No, nothing at all,
    No, I regret nothing
    Not the good things they did to me
    Nor the bad -- may as well be the same to me!

    No, nothing at all,
    No, I regret nothing
    Because my life, because my joys
    Today, I begin with you
  11. EZ Linus

    EZ Linus Patron with Honors

    "I regret nothing
    Not the good things they did to me
    Nor the bad -- may as well be the same to me!"

    This is very interesting. I can relate to what this may mean. There is a thing called Intermittent Gratification. This might also interest you too dchoiceisalwaysrs. Intermittent Gratification the title of a chapter in my book! :yes:

    Anyway, it is a very mentally ill entanglement that people use as to way bind others to them forever, even when they want to leave. It's also called a "sick system," or "intermittent reinforcement." It's not just what happens to us in the cult, but it's a surefire way to create complex-PTSD in marriages or parent-child relationships too. Sometimes the lure of these sometimes yes, sometimes no relationships can be more compelling than an all yes or all no relationship. It has a profound effect on people's behavior, and can lead them into doomed situations like getting locked into addiction to slot machines and shit like that. Anyway, it's better to read what the experts have to say about it. I'm pretty sure it originates from this:

    Intermittent Reinforcement is a term that originated from B.F. Skinner's theories on Operant Conditioning and Behaviorism. Intermittent reinforcement is given only part of the time a subject gives the desired response.

    Anyway, this thread has been helping me out a lot, when I find the time to come read it. Also, in the re-write of my book, I am looking back on things I felt "regret" about and am trying to tie up these situations and let them go a bit. I can't completely, but I can a little, and that's progress. I don't want to be bitter all the way into my 60s and 70s. It's been long enough. I already wasted my early years, you know? It's better to live well now, now that I have the wisdom and cool grey hairs. :coolwink:
  12. Helena Handbasket

    Helena Handbasket Gold Meritorious Patron

    I hear what you're saying -- maybe it had to be the way it was -- but if he had reached for me BEFORE I went, I wouldn't have gone. Part of the reason for my going there is I was looking for love; if he had said something earlier, I could have avoided the whole mess.

  13. Helena Handbasket

    Helena Handbasket Gold Meritorious Patron

    There is another alternative. That is to disconnect TOTALLY from the physical universe.

    We have all played a role in the creation of the physical universe; our "creations" are there for us and other participants to make use of and enjoy.

    The parts of the physical universe we have created act as an "anchor" keeping us here. If we break that connection (by as-ising the bits of MEST we are responsible for) we can leave and do whatever we want (or for that matter, we can stay, but more as "tourists" than full participants). But that's VERY difficult.

  14. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Yeh, you're right about that.

    Then again... :hmm:

    there you are in Europe. Maybe you can tell him this, that if he hadn't been so quiet, you could have avoided that whole yucky experience and it would be nice if he sort of made it up to you and you went on a nice trip together through Europe on the Eurail. :coolwink:

    Czechia is great, really inexpensive, fun (they love dancing to American music) and Prague is like no other city. The food is amazing, with huge portions. (Watch out for pickpockets though). You can't go wrong with Ljubljana for romance along the river and miles of inexpensive, top notch restaurants, either.

    Air BnB has some great places to stay and if you're interested, I can recommend places I was at last year. You deserve a really great vacation, Helena. I hope you take one and have a ball. :)
  15. strativarius

    strativarius Comfortably Numb

    I'm sorry Helena, but I feel compelled to ask the awkward question; how have I played a role in the CREATION of the physical universe? I know I don't remember doing it. (Please don't tell me that's why I can't 'undo' it now.)

    I need something a little more [strike]scientific[/strike] plausible than a glib 'We did it through our considerations' I'm afraid.
  16. lotus

    lotus autonomous rebellous

    Hello Strattyboy,

    You took the words out of my fingers as I was going to say that I am sorry, but didn't took part in the creation of the physical universe. Also, don't thing it's there to be used for us to make use of it... (we're just here..bbut nobody has a clue of why and how...)

    although, I agree with Helena, it's there to be enjoyed ( with care, harmony, and respect) since other living beings are too inhabiting this universe ! :wink2:

    I'd say the physical universe we inhabit is like a rented home..we are there for a moment, and must leave this home , at least, in the same condition it was when we came in. :coolwink:

    (thus, in the event we would come back, which nobody ''really'' knows ..that would be nice to return into a nice well taken care home.... and if not, that would be nice to do it for kids we love and for other fellows who are to come here...)
  17. strativarius

    strativarius Comfortably Numb

    Yes, I'm pretty sure I played no part in the CREATION of the universe, although the current theory - that the trillions of trillions of trillions of tons of matter just appeared out of nothing - seems a bit of a stretch to me somehow. As to why we are here I have no idea, although I like your sentiment of leaving it in no worse condition that when we found it (and a little better if possible).

    As for coming back, no thanks, once is enough for me, the gain and the pain seem to balance out in the long run, so it's all a bit pointless if you ask me.
  18. wenchrelieved

    wenchrelieved Patron

  19. WildKat

    WildKat Gold Meritorious Patron

    Good post! :thumbsup: lots that resonate for me.

    I also lost the fear of death. Part of that was that I was in such pain at times, even pre-Scn, that I wished for death. Everything's relative. But really, fear of pain is one thing (don't care for pain) and death is an end of all pain, at least physical and mental. Spiritual pain is another thing. I see my ancient dad in a nursing home, not happy, but clinging to life. Afraid of death.

    Also, re having or not having children. Yes, some people it seems have them for the wrong reasons, such as the idea that there is "someone to take care of me when I'm old". Or "so I can have some glory through their accomplishments" i.e. pride, bragging rights..."MY son, the doctor!"

    Trying to come to peace with disappointments and trying to figure out what the point of it all was....that seems to be the challenge.

    I've had a good life in retrospect, better than most. But still I complain, still I ask what the point was, why so much unhappiness? Is the nature of man/woman to always be unsafisfied?

    Let me know if anyone figures it out.:coolwink:
  20. cleared cannibal

    cleared cannibal Silver Meritorious Patron

    You know there is kind of a fine line for me between not fearing death and wanting death. I do tend to blame Scn for some of these issues I had pre Scn. It made them much much worse though.

    I often wonder if I had something bad physically to me if I would have the will to live now. I ask myself the question why do we want to live? Much of it for me is for others for my family it wound hurt if I was gone. Really that is probably the only reason I am alive now. It is not healthy, you need to live because of yourself because you want to, not because of someone else. I have worked through many of these isuues and I am living for myself mainly now, no thanks to Scn.

    I was going to post in Glenda's 10 year thread but it will be OK here. I was really never indoctrinated into Scn but it dam sure took a lot away from me . It took me away from myself. I had trouble knowing what I felt or thought. I think death would have been preferable. W/O including Hubbard's ideas and making them your own you are left with nothing if you are erased in processing. In a way you are dead. I have never fully came back to life after this death. I do think my recovery was easier because of this lack of Scn ideas. I can relate to what Glenda says. With someone like her you have to first unlearn and then learn yourself again. I only have to learn myself again. Simpler said than done. It is hard to raise the spirit from death to life. In a way it may have been better to have been indoctrinated as you were never dead, there was always life.

    The ramblings of an insane mind. LOL

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