Two Main Types of Ex-Scientologists

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  1. RSS Feed

    RSS Feed RSS Feeder Bot

    There is a new post up at the Mike Rinder's Blog

    Two Main Types of Ex-Scientologists

    It’s SaTerraDay — yay! Two Main Types of Ex-Scientologists There are two main types of ex-Scientologists: Type 1: Those that still believe in the tech. Type 2: Those that don’t. Not Written in Stone Are these generalities? Yes. Are there gradient variations and differences within each group? Absolutely. Do people waffle? All the time.[.......]

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  2. TomKat

    TomKat Patron with Honors

    Haven't met a Type 1 since the big schism days of the mid-80s.

    On this FORUM there seem to be 2 different types:

    1) those who got gains from Scn and

    2) those who didn't.

    Those who got gains tend to still be spiritual seekers.

    Those who didn't tend to think it was all a scam. Many of them joined staff from the Comm Course and had little if any training or processing.
     
  3. Out Ethics

    Out Ethics Out Ethics Ex Ethics Officer

    I did not get gains from Scientology

    I got gains from living life, taking risks and over coming problems

    One of the many problems of Scientology

    Is you are covertly stopped from achieving your dreams and goals....

    and slowly manipulated in achieving Scientology - David MIscavige's goals...

    Which are: Work for free for Scientology and give all....and get others to work for free and give all....of your money, time, family and dreams up for eternity. Be willing to kill so David Miscavige can HAVE all too.

    If you stay in Scientology too long...

    Not only will you "be nothing" and give up your family, friends and dreams....

    Scientology will give you problems YOU DO NOT WANT....

    Scientology will destroy you...

    It is designed that way...

    People walk in with their own life and successes - not because of L Ron Hubbard and his poisonous tech. It is because they worked hard or inherited or won money.

    Under the mind control and manipulation tech - they will give L Ron all the credit....for everything good that ever happened to them....

    They will also say things like "Scientology saved my life" - a nifty little implant Hubbard throws in his tech ....where here is a person ....getting confused by L Ron Hubbard's tech....and destroying their lives....slowly or quickly...

    Scientologist's will say crazy things like ... "Scientology saved my life" ( another "win" that gets tossed around at the events that Scientologists duplicate when they have to come up with "their win"....all while they are destroyed....they lost their spouse, business and friends....living in a flop house working on staff for nothing....it is all so theta - eh? NOT!

    If things go wrong or you have problems...

    The manipulation tech will covertly convince you that YOU have to take all the blame for anything that went wrong for your life.

    Then you are routed on to the PTS/SP course...where you will....

    Weed out anyone around you who KNOWS Scientology is a cult and the leader a con and is willing to tell you as much.

    Hubbard also disguised his clever parlor tricks covertly with the tech - "you pulled it in" and other hypnosis and mind control techniques such as

    "no case on post"

    "take it up in auditing"

    When you try to sort out HOW Scientology really works - your are prohibited from looking with various forms of punishment....

    paying large sums of money for sec checks....

    grueling ethics programs and making amends to further humiliating you...

    Hubbard further confuses you with his laws of commotion and chaos tech.


    I realized Scientology gave me problems I DID NOT WANT covertly

    Then sold me the solution - Scientology

    Which was a cruel and inhumane hoax.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2018
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  4. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    Good article by Terra!

    I'm a Type 2 Ex-Scientologist! :yes:
     
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  5. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    Actually, many who DID get gains tend to think it was all a scam as well.

    They feel they benefited from some services but never did receive the benefits as promised by Hubbard. The cumulative count of Clears and OT's (as described by Hubbard) still stands at zero. So that would make it all a scam, wouldn't it?

    If you placed an order for a Lamborghini and paid for it in full, yet the car dealer gave you a Chevy Cavalier instead, you definitely would have received considerable benefits from the Chevy, yet you'd consider that you've been scammed, correct?
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2018
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  6. TrevAnon

    TrevAnon Big List researcher

    Some of the Lamborghini prices are definitely in line with COS prices....:D

    https://www.caranddriver.com/lamborghini
     
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  7. George Layton

    George Layton Silver Meritorious Patron

    Are, 2) those who didn't., those who got losses?
     
  8. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    Yes, very true!

    But if one wishes to acquire superpowers you'd get much closer to achieving your purpose if you purchased the Lamborghini rather than Scientology services. :D
     
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  9. ILove2Lurk

    ILove2Lurk Lisbeth Salander

    . . .
    Two Main Types of Ex-Scientologists

    I've stayed clear of ever getting involved in the got gains/didn't get gains
    debates during many years of lurking around the message boards.
    Probably because the debates end up going on forever without resolution
    and I don't have enough of an attention span for a "forever" topic.

    In real life I've told people who are exiting Scientology that the most important
    thing they can do is not deny, discard, or invalidate any wins or gains they
    DID get. Any benefit they achieved is theirs to keep. I mean why deny any
    personal betterment or change from whatever the source, be it auditing,
    a book, a college course, a YouTube video, or whatever.

    Watching the debates, I've noticed that ex-scientologists can also take sides
    about talk therapy in general. The issue being: Will any type of talk therapy,
    now or in the future, ever produce significant changes in people or are we pretty
    much doomed to live the way we are, good or bad?

    A few positions people take:

    -- Scientology does not work. Did not deliver on its promises. Complete waste of time.​
    End of story.
    -- No talk therapy works. Accept how you are and live with it. There will never be a​
    solution to the flawed mind or a therapy to make you better. Never ever. Stop even​
    thinking about it. The mind is beyond human knowledge or solution.
    -- Talk therapy? Psych opinion leaders want us to use drug treatments nowadays . . .​
    100% moved on from talk therapy.
    -- Parts of Scientology seem to work. The workable bits will be recast into other therapies​
    someday.​

    A few interesting data points:

    Post-Scientology, David Mayo believed that parts of Scientology could be recast as a therapy
    without all the complexity and harmful stuff of the COS. He took the basic techniques of New
    Era Dianetics and reworked them into something named Traumatic Incident Reduction (TIR),
    which is described in the book introducing Metapsychology (1995) by Frank Gerbode. They
    gave a nod to Freud and his earlier work in the similar vein.

    So Mayo believed a beneficial talk therapy could be developed. That said, Metapsychology
    and TIR did not exactly set the world on fire. I have the book but have to admit I haven't read
    it. Just browsed through it a few times.

    Jordan B. Peterson, the clinical psychologist, current Internet sensation and best-selling author, gave a talk in 2002 entitled "Slaying the Dragon Within Us." Here's a short excerpt from the talk about one of the world's top clinical psychologists and the "independently discovered" technique she uses and is getting results with:

    Well, there's a woman named Edna Foa in New York, I think one of the world's top clinical psychologists and she's been dealing with women who have post traumatic stress disorder for decades [Prolonged Exposure Therapy]. And she's found a treatment that works. And the treatment is this.
    She has the women relive the event, in as much detail as possible, over and over in their imagination, with the accompanying emotion. And she's found, because she's done physiological measurement on her clients, that those women who allow themselves to get the most fully upset as a consequence of the reliving, get better faster and stay better longer.
    The clinical evidence is absolutely clear. When you take someone to therapy, you're basically doing two things to them, well, three. You allow them to confess what's wrong with them. Because it's really useful to actually say what it is that's bothering you. It makes it clear and distinct. You help the person get their story straight. Because you have to have your story straight, right? You have to know where you're coming from and you have to know where you're going, because otherwise there's no structure for your life.
    And the third thing is, if your path from point a to point b, is being blocked by something that you're afraid of, you better learn to confront it. Because if you don't, it will grow and expand until it turns into the kind of dragon that occupies your whole house. This is another representation of a story.

    After writing this post, I'm guessing I feel anything worthwhile in the Hubbard tech (yes, much borrowed or stolen) will be independently discovered and promulgated by others in time. But maybe it will take a long, long time. I think it will follow along the line of reduction of incidents therapy (Freud, Hubbard, Foa, et al.).

    The main claims or promises, if any are made, would be a lessoning of the condition you came in with and would like to resolve. No hyperbolic, fantastical states or superhuman powers. Just a "best efforts" approach. This would have been a better approach for Hubbard, but that was not to be.

    I'm pretty much a 24/7 positive and joyful person and don't have a "wants handled" list or any need for therapy. My concern is about the person who has depression or lingering ruinous thoughts about themselves. Do they have any hope of eradicating those ideas or flaws? Are we merely cosmically endowed at birth and no hope of a ladder to a better, more happier self?

    Seems like the current day trend of "talk therapy" and personal betterment is the province of social justice warriors, liberal academics, and fake news cable media. Simply pound people with the "correct ideas" until they think and behave correctly. Feel better about themselves and life (virtue signaling). No need for inner inspection or deep thought beyond that anymore. We'll train you, or brainwash you, with what you'll need for life.

    As I said, I'm not concerned for me, but more for the kids and generations to come.
    :shrug:
     
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  10. Out Ethics

    Out Ethics Out Ethics Ex Ethics Officer


    For a Scientologist who paid for the Bridge to No Where...

    Reminds me of that V-8 commercial....

    "to think I could have had a Lamborghini
    :(:melodramatic:
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2018
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  11. NoIdea

    NoIdea Patron

    I'm type 3.
     
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  12. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    "Watching the debates, I've noticed that ex-scientologists can also take sides
    about talk therapy in general. The issue being: Will any type of talk therapy,
    now or in the future, ever produce significant changes in people or are we pretty
    much doomed to live the way we are, good or bad?"

    Great post!!

    Talk therapy may be humanities hope.

    I have a relative,PhD in psychology who has set up
    a thriving talk therapy practice, and has years of experience having done the same in the NHS.

    In the US something like 8% or maybe more seem seem
    to benefit from this. I'm sure talking to friends achieves
    much also.

    My relative does simple goals of solving peoples life problems.

    Maybe somewhat equivalent to life repair in Scn.

    This is needed and wanted.

    I have experienced the further benefits of Scn.

    I have experienced the more extravagant claims such as
    "Ext at will" mostly prior to scientology.

    I think it possible that Hubbard advanced talk therapy.

    For me more importantly he looked at more than that. He
    described ext at will. First I heard of it outside my own
    weird unexplained experience.

    I had great gains from his OT 2&3 which I have no idea why.
    How or why he told us this I have no idea why. Nor why it worked brilliantly for me.

    Have no wish for further OT levels but have many friends who
    have done well on them.

    Other than some of Hubbards tech writings I think he is
    often nonsensical and events have proven dangerous.

    But he pointed in a direction worth exploring IMO.
     
  13. lotus

    lotus autonomous rebellous

    The real gain I got was when I exited for good and my bank account stat went high again vertical

    So I could have good nutritious meals
    Have a nice job
    to pay the bills
    Have a lover that I find suits me
    Have my private life
    Own my right to masturbate
    (that's my own meat body)
    Have dreams
    Have true friends
    I can count on
    Have a car
    Have a nice a home
    Have a futur fill with projects and hope
    Have confidence in life
    Have pills to calm down pain when needed
    Have a EMDR psychotherapy for a specific trauma that needed to be addressed
    Have recovered true confidence in myself
    Have fun and tons of laughters withouth being tagged 1,1 for doing so...

    Have the opportunity to enjoy internet
    have the opportunity to have pleasure in life
    Have moments to enjoy nature
    Have holidays
    Have nice long dinners at home
    Drink alcohol

    Enjoy a nice movie
    Have sufficient sleeping hours
    Have sufficient rest
    Have mental strenght
    Being true to yourself and your own integrity



    Those are my ''gains''..
    Knowing there is nothing to ''gain'' in life, other than be present here and now, to enjoy life and be gratefull for being alive, loved and feeling secure.

    My major ''win'' was to understand there is nothing to attain...but only to live this life as simply it shall be..made of pleasure and sufferings, some we have control over , some we don't.

    I don't believe life is a marathon to accumulate wins, powers an abilities...(and money to buy them)
    The true answers to existential questions are within very simple things and way of living!
    It's up to us to be very attentive, and master our frantic mental to calm it, and be attentive to present time experiences!

    Many exes recovered their awareness when they got out...and it's fine if it took this $cientology experience to have them reconnect to their true self ; even though after they experienced the sense of being lost....in dellusion, lies, false promises and guru and coolaid!

    No more guru, no more beliefs, no more scriptures, no more tech, no more gains, no more truth..
    only living simply, our life, for what it is, a very tiny span of time, for a strong and fragile being we are.

    This is often the true legacy of $cientology ''gain'': Providing you with true suffering and pain till you get that you only need get back to home!

    And that makes us a 3rd category of ex-Scienotlogists... those who are back home.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
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  14. Bill

    Bill Gold Meritorious Patron

    Once I left Scientology, and then left Scientology, and then left Scientology -- it's an onion -- I found some very important (to me) truths:
    • Any religion/belief system with more than one adherent means that someone is dictating what to believe and the others are following that person's belief, not their own.
    • Someone else's belief system will never feel right.
    • You don't need someone else telling you how to improve yourself, it's up to you to find it. Looking at what others have done is useful, if only to see what doesn't work.
    • People who don't know how to improve themselves look to "improve" others.
    • People who don't know how to improve themselves make "improvement" very, very complicated and hard to understand.
    • The best person you can be is yourself.
    Most of those things I've realized are the reasons that Scientology does not work.
     
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  15. scooter

    scooter Gold Meritorious Patron

    I've had a fair bit of time on my hands of late and have been idly pondering what gains (if any) I got from my time in the cult.

    And the list is short:

    I was happy believing I was doing something good for others and the world and that made me a much happier person overall than I had ever been.

    Having a purpose for everything I was doing meant that I had a lot more energy to do things.

    I reaffirmed my belief in the lack of value in pursuing money or possesions for any form of happiness.

    Not looking at what was really going on with our planet but relying on the cult for my news made me a mostly optimistic person, unlike the pessimist I had been and the mental issues that that had engendered (majorly chronic depression) "disappeared" temporarily.

    I gave up drugs, as I now had a substitute addiction that demanded I forsake them.

    There may have been more but I think you get the idea. The day I actually mentally left the cult was one of the most terribly depressing of my life. But what could you expect when one has just confronted 30 years of living a lie and desperately searching for something, anything worthwhile in all of that activity that was actually helpful and good?

    For many years now I've held the opinion that Hubbard was a fraud and His work has little value. It works sporadically and only because it's usually something the Fat Fraud stole from elsewhere and passed off as His own. I'm comfortable with that view as it fits all the evidence I've ever seen.

    And I've looked an awful lot. I've had to.

    I studied a lot when I was "in." 80 courses and interneships, including stints at ITO and Flag. I have always been a "Techie" and seldom a sales person or admin staff in any capacity.

    So that meant a LOT of searching for the truth when I finally began to really look. Quite a bit after I'd left.

    I HAD to put every bit of "Tehc" on hold and evaluate it honestly in real life right here right now. And almost all failed totally.

    Some worked occasionally, some worked mostly.

    NONE worked 100%

    I don't harrass those who still believe, because I've been there and done that.

    But I firmly call BULLSHIT on Hubbardian "technology" for being anything other than a clever fraud by a very mentally challenged individual who should have spent most of His life safely (for the rest of us) behind bars - there were plenty of crimes He committed that should have given Him that thoroughly justified punishment.
     
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  16. Out Ethics

    Out Ethics Out Ethics Ex Ethics Officer

    You may have had "wins" on Oat Tea 2 and 3 ... but there is no proof that body thetans are attached to you....absolutely NO SCIENCE behind that.


    Unless YOU BELIEVE they are...

    So the "wins" you had ... you made up....

    Your mind will rationalize the craziest stuff if you INVEST heavily into whatever it is ... you WANT to believe.

    There is no state of clear or oat tea levels in Scientology.... but Scientology will do quite a number on one's EGO.


    Religion creates monsters.....most "religious" people are martyrs or control freaks....what religions teach is all make believe....and people will DIE to be right about their religion. They will fly people into buidlings, cut off heads and show it on videos, blow themselves and others up....

    I suggest one stay far away from religion and rely on yourself. Take care of yourself. Love yourself wholly and be aware of the ego - it will destroy you.,
     
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  17. lotus

    lotus autonomous rebellous

    We all know by now that the whole scam of BT's is

    to find that you are under BT's attack..and then, later on...you must find out that it was all mocked-up....

    That tells what $cientology is...

    That explains lot of mental collapses and psychotics breaks...
     
  18. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased

    Type 2s think Ron is a Type 3.
     
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  19. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    There's only one kind of ex-scientologist that I've ever seen (or heard of) and that's an extremely relieved one ... extremely relieved to be out of the cult (as opposed to being relieved of money, time, energy, family, friends and anything good about life in general while in the cult).

    :clap2:
     
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  20. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    I disagree a bit.
    IMO, those that still believe in "the tech" are protestant Scientologists not ex-Scientologists.
    By analogy, a presbyterian is a protestant Christian not ex-Christian.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2018