I want to point out to you that Hubbard never discovered anything, all he did was reword or plagiarize past discoveries and make hisself "source" per KSW when he really went for it. I make this comment based on your statement and TP's statement thinking Hubbard is "source". As you said: "I've always maintained (though not so much on this message board) that anything in Hubbard's large body of work that's described and exists in reality or is a technique that is eminently workable and produces verifiable results will be independently discovered by others over time." One may ask themselves why I said what I did. It's hard to follow, but I actually made the proof on my Research & Discovery tread called on post no. 107: "Interesting tread by Caroline in 2011 over at OCMB on the connection by Hubbard, Campbell & Heinlein: http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=39380 http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=39380&start=15 Caroline points out per the COS own website how Hubbard researched stories to write at the NY Library. Don't forget up above Hubbard told Heinlein the books to read: http://writer.lronhubbard.org/page44.htm Dean William Allen Wilbur wrote several books on rhetoric, one was English Rhetoric for his GWU course which Hubbard took. Another is called Modes of Imagination in English Rhetoric. http://www.amazon.com/imagination-English-rhetoric-William-Wilbur/dp/B00086TZQQ" http://www.forum.exscn.net/threads/dean-wilbur-rhetoric-hubbard-dianetics-sicientology.38446/page-6 Hubbard's own words and even posted on the current COS website" http://writer.lronhubbard.org/page44.htm an excerpt and here Hubbard admits he did not do discovery or the sole exploiter of research, but he did do research to write stories or give lectures: Hubbard: "In defense I instantly protest that I am neither the discoverer nor the sole exploiter of research. But I do believe that I have found an entirely new slant upon an ancient object." I give thanks to Caroline for helping me to connect dots. One has to remember that any body of work based on others, why most legitimate scientists or philosophers or journalists will give footnotes as references or source material. There are never any footnotes in any of L Ron Hubbard books or lectures, he just talks a good story, oh the rhetoric.