What did ya think of KTL/LOC?

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Wisened One, Sep 22, 2008.

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  1. Pixie

    Pixie Crusader

    Key To Hell

    I agree, as I said mine was nothing short of a nightmare too, horrendous. A major key in for me for want of a better word, messed me up to no end, and being accused of being an out2D criminal every five minutes didn't help either. When you're trying to tell someone you didn't have sex with anyone while on the cans over and over and over and over and over and they still don't believe you...:storm: And then you get a 'non enturb' order anyway and ordered not to talk with your boyfriend every again, I mean not even to say 'goodbye'... :angry:
  2. Human Again

    Human Again Silver Meritorious Patron

    Didn't happen on KTL but I also was accused of out 2D over and over again and lost two relationships from it. It sounds so small, it fits into two lines, it hurt so much and had such long term repercussions. And not a single "friend" of mine offered any compassion. The HE&R was just unacceptable.
  3. Wisened One

    Wisened One Crusader

    Great replies, you guys, keep 'em comin!

    And :welcome: to kokul!

  4. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Have no experience with this course, except seeing promo, however I have read the Course Supervisor materials, from long ago before it was packaged into those books, that - in the promo at least - resemble books for preschoolers.

    For what it's worth, here are some excerpts from the Hubbard Key to Life Course Supervisor Series 0 -2, 1 November 1981, Issue II:

    "It all started with an attempt to train some auditors to deliver a highly sophisticated and powerful new rundown. We had this great bridge section there, all researched and ready to go. But we found we had to build better approaches to the bridge. What we kept finding was that they were deeper in the swamp than we had noticed. So we went down further and found that they were in a canyon before they even got to the swamp. We thought, 'Well, we've got them in the canyon now and that's fine - we'll just take off from there', and then we found there was a ditch in the canyon. And where did we find this culture? In a hole at the bottom of the ditch... it was part of our modern culture."

    Then it goes on about how apparently literate people were continually going past misunderstoods in their reading materials, the small words, etc. (Which seems to be a rehash of something covered on the Student Hat) Then it goes into the subject of grammar, and how badly it's taught, etc.

    I can remember hating grammar as a kid in school, and also remember going out and buying some how-to books on grammar, which were helpful, plus devising (creatively) my own system of grammar, so I can relate to dry boring grammar teachers teaching grammar badly.

    Anyway, the Course Supervisor materials continue:

    "After the course had been in progress for some time it was found that students were continually making problems out of the course which led to a major discovery: people who are PTS make problems for others and for themselves. The remedy is to handle the PTSness - the problems vanish. This discovery led to a whole new rundown for handling PTSness which can be done on people who are relatively illiterate."

    The only "inside information" I have on this course that it came about as Hubbard was frustrated that the Sea Org children/teenagers in the CMO, Cadet Org, etc. were not capable of understanding written instructions, these children, many of them, having never gone beyond grade school.

    In the promo, at least, the books resemble colorful versions of old Communist Chinese re-education texts, which were made to resemble young children's picture books - the message (from the Chinese communists, circa 1950/1960s) being that even a (Chinese) college professor or businessman, or doctor, has an education that is worthless, and is, essentially, an infant (preschooler), who needs to be educated from the bottom up "in the Revolution."

    Of course - back to KTL - understanding the meaning of words, and understanding grammar is a good thing, so, I'll withhold judgement on this.

    A couple of questions, though, for those who have actually held the books in their hands, and actually did the course: Was it "confidential"? (Seems strange that it would be, but this is what I heard, although it doesn't make sense). Was it expected that everyone - even those who were Clear, OT7, etc., Student Hat grads, Method 1 Word Clearing completions, etc. - do the course?

  5. Div6

    Div6 Crusader

    RE: Confidential. Of course you had to buy the books, but they were to NOT LEAVE the courseroom. The data itself was not confidential, but on the sup course, there were confidential "EP's" for the clay table sections.

    One thing I was told was they had hired some es-Disney illustrators to do the pictures. It was expected that everyone do it initially, but KTL had the strange effect of "waking up the rubes"...and LOC had an even stronger result in that area. My understanding is that these courses are NOT being delivered much in orgs anymore, and the courserooms have largely been unmocked. I would like to hear more about that.

    I personally enjoyed KTL. Grammar was an "engramic subject" in junior high school for me....I never did LOC, as I finished my staff covenant shortly thereafter and walked away.
  6. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Added to the Student Hat, Method 1, and other actions, KTL and LOC - being for everyone - may have been overdoing it a bit.

    After all, Hubbard had a perfectly nice psychological-political operation going by 1974, with all the necessary components in place - before he started messing with it and changing it around.

    I got something out of the Student Hat, and have seen others benefit from it, and related actions, but it's hard to imagine someone, having done the Student Hat, or someone who already is "literate," and knows what "and," "or," "of," etc. mean, wanting to do the KTL.

    One other question. Was everyone expected to do the "PTS" step? Or only those who had a problem with the KTL?
  7. Pixie

    Pixie Crusader

    I wrote about this experience in detail a while back, but I can honestly say it was one of the most painful things I have ever endured in my whole entire life. The shock was horrendous, the false accusations, the lies, the non enturb order, the not allowed to even end the cycle by saying goodbye. It was pure hell, and certainly not needed mid KTL! You are right about long term repercussions, it's almost impossible after all that to open one's heart to anyone. And for sure, compassion? :no: Exactly, none, one was not allowed to be human, and feeling loss was simply like you say, just HE & R. Totally incredible and unbelievable. The betrayel and the shock... well... still working through it I feel.
  8. Pixie

    Pixie Crusader

    There was a feeling of overrun having completed Student Hat etc and yes, the PTS step was for everyone. But scientology is cookie cutter is it not. Only the EP's were confidential but you weren't allowed to tell anyone what the course was about either.
  9. Div6

    Div6 Crusader

    Clay Table De-PTSing was the very first action on the KTL. Everyone did it, no exceptions. I remember that EP, I had a cognition that lasted about 20 minutes, with mass blowing off continuously. Of course, after a "blowout" like that I was amenable to looking up little words. The materials contained the defiinitions, and there were NO OTHER dictionaries allowed in the course room. Don't want to contaminate the envrionment, you know.

    Recall that during that period, clay table auditing had been introduced on the "New Pro TR's Course". IIRC, there were 5 sections in that course of auditing. The commands were printed in a book, and the "pc" would read the commmand, look to the bank, and then put the "picture" into clay. When the PC was done, the "auditor" (essentially another student who was there to turn the pages and summon the sup) would call the sup over to check the "clay representation". If the sup could see that it answered the auditing command, he would ask if the pc had a win, and if so, have him write it up. (This was to see if the PC had the "EP" of the section. Everyone essentially did it until the had "the cog". IF there was no win, then they would go to the next command. If there was a bog, the sup would tell them to "take a walk", and they would go outside for 10 mins or so, and then come back and either continue, or the PC would go to review.

    Clay Table auditing on the KTL was much the same, but with different commands, and EP's of course.
  10. thetanic

    thetanic Gold Meritorious Patron

    I struggle with grammar, so right now the KTL sounds pretty good to me.

    In other words, because the CoS was unable to apply study tech to people raised within Scn, everyone had to do this class.

    That's what I remember too: that it was confidential. On the other hand, I left early enough that I know someone who had it on their TIP, but never knew anyone who finished it, at least not that I recall.
  11. chipgallo

    chipgallo Patron Meritorious

    When I was posted to HCO (Hubbard Communications Office) at FCDC (Founding Church District of Columbia) in the late 1970's, a couple of staff were sent to do the earliest outer org pilot of the KTL. I didn't go, but I was bonded for $50,000 and shown parts of the "World Out of Comm Eval," which supposedly was commissioned by the Old Man to find out why people couldn't learn.

    If memory serves, the WOOC eval was done on "wogs" as well as staff and public. It found that drugs and bad education were creating illiteracy worldwide. A drastic reduction in the so-called education gradient was called for. Key to Life was the answer. Anecdotally it has been reported that the KTL took a long time to complete and required that a Sweat Program or (later) Purif must be completed as a prerequisite. The student must not be in the middle of any major actions. At this point there was no Clay Table De-PTS'ing, so one can assume that PTS students were encountered on the pilot.

    Later, in 1990-91, I did the KTL/LOC in Los Angeles at ITO (International Training Org). Initially the books were photocopies and when the final big ass books came out, instantly became off policy and we had to find $500 for our books. There were specially trained Ethics, Qual, Case Supervisor and Course Supervisor staff. Special course rooms were required which were to be free of MU causing signage. When people started freaking out on course (i.e., uncontrolled crying, laughing), they were allowed to "take a walk" with their twin and "spot spots." This meant you signed out of the course room and went outside.

    It was an intense experience and it really helped if you were into word construction, grammar and the like. None of the material had the LRH touch and I doubt he wrote any of the text. Again anecdotally I heard that the first version in 1979 or so had to be rewritten.

    Wins? I dug much of the KTL but seriously feel now that it reduced one's IQ. The Life Orientation Course was required immediately after and gave me the tools and desire to leave organized Scientology forever.

    If that isn't a win, what is?

    Last edited: Sep 24, 2008
  12. RolandRB

    RolandRB Rest in Peace

    For me it was a long and drawn out sack of shit.
  13. Smitty

    Smitty Silver Meritorious Patron

    Those I have known who had done the Key to Life gave me mixed reviews about it. Few ever commented positively on the Life Orientation Course.
    I attempted to sign up for the KTL in 1992 and the org registrar just rolled her eyes and asked me if the C/S told me to do it. I replied "no". She asked me if I was having trouble studying to which I replied, "no". She told me that I did not need it and then said that I should do the Academy Levels. That was quite a commentary.
    At a later date, she confided in me that all the org students who did the KRL/LOC were not getting the benefits promised in the promo for the courses. I had to agree with her, as I saw no change in those who had done the courses.
    By the way, the auditing rundown that Hubbard stated he had trouble training people on, that KTL/LOC was a solution to, was Super Power.
    Just more of Hubbard's delusional remedies to what he "knew" was wrong with the rest of us on his expensive tollroad to nowhere.
  14. Kookaburra

    Kookaburra Gold Meritorious Patron

    When th course was first released it was totally confidential. The courseroom was locked at all times, the books were sealed shut till they got into the courseroom. You weren't allowed to talk to anyone about the course. Not a peep. I am sure that was because if anyone found out what it was, they would never do it. It was promoted as handling the abberation of the English language which affected every English speaking person.

    When first released everyone had to do it. All SO were routed onto it despite any other actions they were mid. If you refused, you got FB'd. (fitness boarded = thrown out)
  15. thetanic

    thetanic Gold Meritorious Patron

    The first person I knew who was about to start on it had just finished her initial SO training and finished her EPF.

    I note that she's on the PAC RPF now.
  16. Andrew

    Andrew Patron with Honors

    Overview of KTL for those who haven't done it.

    1). Clay Table Processing
    2). Study of Grammar
    3). Read Factors (Illustrated Version).

    A perfectly accurate summation of Clay Table Processing from Div6
    It is not "uncommon" for some people to get quite stuck on this and it can go on for literally months. That's no fun for anyone.

    A lot of people who have a lot of upset towards KTL most likely came to grief with this step. Or they were just the victims of other people being complete psychotic tools (which is not particularly specific to KTL).

    For the vast majority though the processing is quite routine and uneventful. The commands concern "problems". The PC will be asked to make a clay representation of "force vs force", "thought vs thought" or some other version of the Scn definition of "problem".

    The grammar section is simply the most easy to understand and well stated explanation of grammar that I have come across. All with helpful illustrations.

    There are several sections dealing with different parts of grammar.

    You word clear all of the small common words in the English language (ie "at", "to", "of", etc) I have never come across as many, or as clearly defined definitions for these words in any dictionary than those in the books of this course.

    You then learn about nouns, verbs and "modifiers" (a sneaky alternative solution that covers adjectives, adverbs etc)

    Then onto how to construct parts of sentences, complete sentences, paragraphs, etc.

    Also covered is the correct use of punctuation and what each symbol means.

    Upon reflection I seriously doubt that LRH wrote any of this section. Perhaps someone who was there at the development could comment on that.

    The last step of KTL is to read the Factors.

    As I posted originally, you can throw out the CTP and the Factors without losing much. The grammar section is all gold!
  17. Div6

    Div6 Crusader

  18. Flag-2005

    Flag-2005 Patron with Honors

    KTL was great! I loved it as I never studied grammer before so it was perfect.

    I never expected to love word clearing so much but the definitions of small words gave really big wins.

    LOC would be good if done with pure intent but with Church lines, the amount of trips to the examiner and all the review it becomes a nightmare.

    Also it is just ethics tech and that is always misused by the Orgs.

    "find your hat in life" If you dont 'discover' your a Scientologist or Auditor or SO member you get evaluated for.

    KTL highly recommend

    LOC - whatever...
  19. Lulu Belle

    Lulu Belle Moonbat

    Ken left the SO and got declared when he was in the middle of that project. What I was told at the time was that all of the work that he did had to be redone.

    I know that blonde girl (very young at the time) who was Ron Norton's daughter was on that project for years. She may have written the whole thing, for all I know.
  20. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    Well, quite apart from the ideas about who wrote KTL, that link includes a most INTERESTING story about freedom-of-speech in a "Scientology World", I highly recommend it! :thumbsup: