What did ya think of KTL/LOC?

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Wisened One, Sep 22, 2008.

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  1. Pixie

    Pixie Crusader

    I did my EPF with Ron Nortons daughter, she didn't even have to sleep in our dorm, she slept with her parents and got all her own way, and she got wellies when we had to walk into the muddy lake to clean it out, the rest of us were barefoot. And Ron Norton was the instigator of my demise. It was he who locked myself and my husband in the sin bin for a week to search for our crimes. Oh those were the days... not! :no:
  2. Lulu Belle

    Lulu Belle Moonbat

    Did she do her EPF uplines?

    I thought she had been staff in LA before that.
  3. Pixie

    Pixie Crusader

    No, Saint Hill. She could have been on staff however I have no idea about that. I just know that she had so many special privelages is was ludicrous.
  4. Iknowtoomuch

    Iknowtoomuch Gold Meritorious Patron

    Didn't she go out 2D with Adam Parcel??(forget his last name) from Gold. He went to the RPF for that while she stayed at Gold. :duh: Adam had a brother named James. Who I'm pretty sure routed out at some point.
    She was very quiet.
    I can't believe I forgot her name.

    Edit, was it Cory, Kory??
  5. Lulu Belle

    Lulu Belle Moonbat

    I was thinking the same thing today; trying to remember her name.

    I think you're right; it was Cory.
  6. Pixie

    Pixie Crusader

    I can't remember myself actually however she was very very young when she did her EPF with me. They were only on the base for a year or so then went back. That's all I know.
  7. Koot

    Koot Patron with Honors

    I did it at ITO on Hollywood Blvd as outer org staff. (Portland Fdn around the mid to late 80s)

    I thought it was excellent, grueling but excellent. The clay table processing was a bit of a surprise for me but I went along with it and found it very revelatory. My twin/PC also had a major win on the CT. I still think it (the whole course)was life changing(for the better). The LOC on the other hand was not what I wanted to do at the time. I had just completed a very good ethics cycle back at my org and was oriented pretty well. Doing courses as outer org staff is challenging at best and downright painful at worst. I just wanted to do KTL and get home and deliver. Remember, this was supposed to Boom the org and we might just be viable then and not starving!! LOC was just a stat push and Q and A for me. Not to mention, a major wrong indication. As far as the actual course goes, well, it was a very thorough ethics education and handling that I found to be unnecessary for me at that time.

    As far as YOUR gains---- You know what you got. Don't fall prey to the suppressive shit rampant on this message board or in your own environ. CHEERS!!
  8. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    I did quite a bit of Clay Table Auditing on others at both AOLA and CC....for the new Pro TRs Course.

    What I observed was what I had already seen before...and that is that the Cult is an attempt to make a "one size fits all" indoctrination.

    Where as one PC on CTP was interested in Electronics and made elaborate clays of Electronic things.....another PC at CC was into Polo....and made clays of a ball being hit around....

    The thing that hit me was the "depth" at which PCs approach auditing of any sort is always different.

    I think the Cult is always trying to get everyone "on the same page" ( in regards to what ever their current thrust is )...but its just not going to happen....

    Since no one can talk to each other about their Cult experiences....in the Cult.....none then ever discover how different everyone's take really is on Cult stuff.
  9. Hatshepsut

    Hatshepsut Crusader

    deleted. Wrong course
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2018
  10. Koot

    Koot Patron with Honors

    What is true for you is true for you. The cult is real. The cult IS there. The cult is not LRH.
  11. Koot

    Koot Patron with Honors

    When I did it, mid to late 80s at ITO as org staff training to deliver back in Ptl. it was not required to anyone. The clay table section was confidential as to content, procedure and EP. The picture book was an undercut to having to look up long word chains. It was tough enough even with the pictures. Great idea. Pictures say things without words much better than saying it with words. One might even say a picture was worth a thousand words. I learned more on that course than K->12 re. reading and writing . AND, The clay table processing was very applicable to all life activities with other beings. I had to sign a 50,000 dollar bond to do it. That's right , we all had to sign a 50K bond.

    They probably don't deliver it because it is harder to suppress someone who has done it!!!!

    Just as an aside, without going into details, I would bet it does a bit of a whammy on GPMs too.
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  12. Koot

    Koot Patron with Honors

    Sounds like an out tech suppressive free for all with you as the punk!
  13. Koot

    Koot Patron with Honors

    I think the 60 small words, many of which had 10 to 30 senses were a major factor in the course. At least they were for me and the people in my course room(ITO late 80s, NOT a pilot course).

    I think the Clay table section was more effective than expected. When the student, ME, had the prior steps done to a good EP and then read the factors, the effect was quite enlightening on a broad view of our present situation(life). I was already a class IV auditor at that time so there was also a wealth of data in my mind to help correlate with. Just my take on it.
  14. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    My opinion of it was that, although it may help with grammar etc., it was a sort of soft RPF.

    People who were Student Hat grads, Method One grads (Super Literate), and Clear, and some OT7, were being told they're functionally illiterate and out of valance without doing this confidential course.

    It was over kill.
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  15. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

  16. Koot

    Koot Patron with Honors

  17. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    The mid and late 1980s.

    Having read (the not available to public) Check sheet for the course, supervisors were placed into a frame of mind where they had contempt for their students.

    I didn't care for it, felt it was unnecessary, and possibly destructive.
  18. FoTi

    FoTi Crusader

    I loved it!!!! :biglove:
    I never got to finish it though. The C/S wouldn't stay out of my hair. :pullhair: She kept insisting that I get auditing because my twin wouldn't show up on time. :wacko: I didn't want auditing....I wanted to stay on course and keep going. Boy did that turn into a mess. That was the end of any auditing or training....she kicked me out and told me there was no C/S that would accept me in the PAC area. Then I moved to Flag and it was an even worse mess there. They wouldn't let me continue until I paid for 4 more intensives of auditing (I already had auditing paid for at Flag, but they wouldn't let me use it until I gave them thousands of dollars more), They just wanted $$$$$$$. Even the Reg at Flag didn't understand it. I walked out. That was the end of the KTL, I'm sorry to say and that was the end of my :bs: Bridge to Total Freedom. The more I tried to continue with the course, the more suppression I received from the orgs. I eventually got the idea that they had no intention of freeing any beings......all they wanted was to keep people going in circles :headspin: spending every penny they had and keeping people introverted and feeling guilty if they didn't cough up their pennies. :guilt:

    I actually got a lot out of it despite all of the efforts of the C/S and some others who kept trying to stop me. I'm really glad I got to do as much of it as I did. I wrote tons of success stories while I was on the course....but of course that didn't make any difference. They spent so much effort trying to convince me that there was something wrong with me so I would cough up the money for auditing. All I wanted was to continue the course. I didn't want any more auditing at that point and that didn't fit in with their plans or the GI for the week.

    I also saw friends change a lot from being on that course, some finished it, some were pulled off of it like I was, but I saw some nice gains in others. I also saw people who didn't want to be there and were miserable being stuck on KTL who wanted to continue with their auditing and didn't want to do KTL. One girl cried every day because she didn't want to be there. They wouldn't let her go. It's impossible for people to have wins when forced to do a service they hate that isn't right for them at the time, and I saw a lot of that going on during the time I was on (or not on) KTL.

    After I saw what happened to Lisa McPherson I was glad I wasn't allowed to continue services at Flag....it was too dangerous there.
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  19. Hatshepsut

    Hatshepsut Crusader

    Screenshot 2018-04-13 at 2.52.03 AM.png Screenshot 2018-04-13 at 2.53.43 AM.png Screenshot 2018-04-13 at 2.54.39 AM.png
    A few pages. I couldn't get all the books dowloaded onto my drive at the time I found the KTL on the internet back in 2011.

    Back in the winter of 1981 or 82, everyone at the Miami Org was being sent out to LA to do the KTL. The execs at the Org came back delighted with results. I was in complete mystery about it. The C/S said it was mostly about clearing words. I thought, 'What's so great about that?' Doing Method One and Student Hat etc, I thought it was fine but no wowzer. I wanted to be superliterate but the time spent from my point of view as a teenager, was too much. I'd not enough interest to get me over the humps if I started it.

    I saw the little square books with the kindergarten type color pictures. I thought how uniquely different from the general JW type graphics we usually saw coming out of Pubs or wherever. I liked the simplicity. I didn't do the course.
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2018
  20. Koot

    Koot Patron with Honors

    I am shocked and appalled. Heads need to roll!!