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What did you think of the "OT" levels as you were doing them ?

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
That "Third OT I" is completely false.

Yes, I had a feeling it wasn't right.

The one shown below is accurate, as far as I remember, except the 13 steps were handwritten too.

Yes, I've got the lot but they are all separate (the most misspelled word in the English language) images not text, and posting all those images would have been a bit of a PITA.

Paul
ex Solo-OT3 Sup at Saint Hill 1982-5 and ITO early 90s
 
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Dave B.

Maximus Ultimus Mostimus
Hmmm, so the $cientology OT levels are overt products then. Released with great fanfare and bluster only later to be reworked, repackaged and resold, because now "we've discovered that......" But they don't want to admit they're all a big beta test and $cientologists are the beta-testers paying full retail for the wonderful privilege of being experimented on.

Reading Alan Walters thread Opening Pandora's Box regarding the first SHSBC and students with the "creaks" being brought in with wheelbarrows you can see that it's always been that way in the (m)Kult(ra). $cientology is Hubbard's big 7th grade science experiment advertised as the cure-all-wonder-of-the-ages.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Frankly, back in the mid 70's OT 1 was a walk around outside observing type process with absolute nothing " confidential " other that it was called OT1 & it was just a so-so thing to do.

I did all my OT levels in the FZ. One possible advantage of this was that I'd
read them all previously and didn't believe the OT3 story. I'd attested to natural clear twice
the last time in 1991. There was a strong effort to say I was not clear, but I
eventually persuaded C/S that I was.

I did OT1 "by accident" while sitting in a shopping mall.

OT 2 first thing was becoming aware that for people who hadn't audited this was going to be a bitch. It was obvious some people on the solo course were lost with a meter.
And, on the gobbled gook of 2 it was come a cropper IF they were really good with the meter. The level its self was a sci fi run way to much vaulted ot3 Wall of Fire. Gain? Nah. Did it. So what.

My favorite bridge level, so did this and OT3 twice and per CBR advice did CC platens
before the second time. Very active for a few days. I'm inclined to think that I was
doing creative processing for this and OT 2&3. On OT 2 apparently separated from a theta clear or OT.

OT 3, so much as been written about it - it just seemed way too weird reading it. A lot of WTF going on in my head. Looking back I tend to think that is where the "hook" really got set & I stopped MY thinking and just followed the old man.


Did things happen along the way where I saw people get screwed to the wall ? Raped in ethics ? Robbed by the IAS ? Sold intensives they never needed ? Shipped off for L's ? Told they weren't clear ?
yeah it all !

I touched upon NOTs in the later stage of OT 3. I have no interest in further BT handling.
Personal friends have done lots of NOTs and get excellent wins

Did an L and would be happy to do more L's.

I know 2 people who'd done OT 5 told not clear 5 times.
 

RogerB

Crusader
I know what I did as OT 1 @ AOLA was what is posted as version 3 of it,

I was extremely close to someone who did all 3 L's & absolutely nothing changed ( zero ).
And of all the people I knew who did the L's - say 200 - ONE person really changed for the better. (nevermind they claim they cam leap tall building etc BS ).

OT 8. Once again, very close to 5 people who did it with no perceptible ( by me ) change in them .
Also just know more than a few more who did 8 who stay pretty quiet about it.

In all honesty, after OT 7 one day I realized that after all those years I had done of scientology processes the inescapable fact of being far more fucked up than before I walked in their door the first time.
So, I left to recover some semblance of my sanity.

Long story short ? That stuff was a long expensive road to getting really mentally fucked up.

I out of 10,000 chance " getting " something from it is worse than Vegas odds !

Well, Giz, I got something out of it :ohmy: . . . . something bad, something very bad :angry: and somethings OK and somethings good :melodramatic:

:p:p

But the truth is, my actual gains were obtained way long before the CC and OT Levels were introduced . . . everything released after about 1961 was a disaster except for Serfac handling and some theory points like the tech on the Introspection R/D.

R
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
I did OT1 "by accident" while sitting in a shopping mall.

A friend today was talking about his "iPad," when in fact he has a cheap Android tablet (and yes, I know there are very expensive nice Android tablets too.) I educated him a bit about generic terms, not so much to make him wrong as to point out that I was confused about the problem he was describing to me until I realised what he was talking about. The promoted idea of the RTC trademarked items is that if someone buys one it is a standardised thing, just as when you buy a can of Coke you are confident it will perform like it usually does. In reality Coca Cola is better at standardising their stuff than the official cult, but within limits the New OT I you get in England is pretty similar to the New OT I you will get in LA or DK. Similarly for the OT I delivered between 1972 and 1982(-ish).

Now, when a freezoner talks about the gains they got (or didn't get) from "OT II" or "OT III," most people who are familiar with what the CofS calls by those names (which is covered under their Service Mark OT, number 158 on my cult trademarks list at http://fzglobal.org/trademarks.htm), think they are talking about those services. But in reality, who knows what the hell they did, as it wasn't done within the cult at one of their usual places of business!

-----

Reading over this, I see that I am being overly punctilious, and this should probably be tossed into the who-gives-a-fuck bin as I imagine most people get the general idea from Terril's remark. But it seems a shame to throw out my careful bitching, so here we are. :)

Paul
 
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Gizmo

Rabble Rouser
I did all my OT levels in the FZ. One possible advantage of this was that I'd
read them all previously and didn't believe the OT3 story. I'd attested to natural clear twice
the last time in 1991. There was a strong effort to say I was not clear, but I
eventually persuaded C/S that I was.

I did OT1 "by accident" while sitting in a shopping mall.



My favorite bridge level, so did this and OT3 twice and per CBR advice did CC platens
before the second time. Very active for a few days. I'm inclined to think that I was
doing creative processing for this and OT 2&3. On OT 2 apparently separated from a theta clear or OT.

I touched upon NOTs in the later stage of OT 3. I have no interest in further BT handling.
Personal friends have done lots of NOTs and get excellent wins

Did an L and would be happy to do more L's.

I know 2 people who'd done OT 5 told not clear 5 times.

Terril, elsewhere in so may other threads " clear " - " OT " - " theta clear " - " BT " are discussed.

I'm just going to say that in over 60 years there has yet to be proven any of those things existing except in the minds of a few people.

As Roger mentioned, far more likely that people got worse or way worse doing that stuff.

Odd things I remember. A so-called friend on 7 had gotten 10 intensives of that sec checking ( forget what they called that crap ) on the 2D & went home & big as muscular as he was severely beat & then raped his size zero wife.

I met her at a restaurant where she was showing me lots of bruises on her body, complete with split lips & black eyes. He showed up & told her she could not talk to anybody about what happened between them or he take her out in the desert & make her vanish.
I told home he couldn't talk like that to her. He blew up . I stood up to him. He ended our friendship. She pressed charges & divorced him. Trust me, he is till around in the CoS.

Knew a gal who bought her bridge hustling on the streets of NYC which she never made any effort to hide - she bragged about it.
The were several young girls at CC on 8 th St that made no secret on being pole dancers to pay for courses - one became very well known.
Didn't know the guy personally but he bought his bridge with money from dealing drugs - the reg knew it, the ED knew, the whole org knew it.

Lord knows over the years how much child sexual abuse I've heard about / know about / had the perp as a PC, etc. Pretty much a known fact the CoS will shamelessly allow child sexual abuse to protect their own image.

Look the other way as AOLA has a staff member ARRESTED & taken out of the org in handcuffs for having STOLEN ORG MONEY.
But if a staff member stole money from another staff member or a public ? Don't you DARE have a scientologist in good standing arrested !

The org could take your money for a course they couldn't deliver & policy says if can't deliver in 6 months MUST refund that money.
But, ever hear anyone try to get back their advance pay on OT 9 & 10 ?

Perhaps one of the saddest moments was standing in a room at the Sandcastle with someone who had jumped through all the hoops to get on 7 & while his wife was " invited" he was given a " Never going to happen ".
He was ready to go home & leave the group. I told him that everybody had a point where they felt like throwing in the towel on going up the bridge & he could do that or he could man up & keep going.
Poor bastard kept trying to get on 6 while his wife finished 7 ( lots of years ) & did 8. I guess he is still trying & I regret encouraging him ( and everybody else I gave a pep talk ).

Oh, sure, I still know a handful of people - well maybe a couple LOL ! - who give me credit for this that or the other. Hell, I may have been their " auditor " but with their own mind they saw changes they needed to make in the way they lived their life & they did so. I didn't do that, they did !

I think those "auditors" we called "great" ( and there were a few who were outstanding ) had something that transcended the "processing" in that they really deep down did care, were interested, meant well, wanted to help & allowed a person to ( come out & ) be themselves ( not what ron said they were ! ).

So yeah, some people did get "helped". I think most people just got scammed big time but here & there turns out there really were a few rare people who not only cared but also had the skills to present that in session & allow a person to come into their own not just deeper into the fold.

Trying to do good in the nightmare of scientology processing - yet we survived both sides of it.

Looking back, I just am not now of the opinion that stuff called scientology is NOT fixable - too many other things are quicker, less expensive, & really can help people.
 
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Gizmo

Rabble Rouser
A friend today was talking about his "iPad," when in fact he has a cheap Android tablet (and yes, I know there are very expensive nice Android tablets too.) I educated him a bit about generic terms, not so much to make him wrong as to point out that I was confused about the problem he was describing to me until I realised what he was talking about. The promoted idea of the RTC trademarked items is that if someone buys one it is a standardised thing, just as when you buy a can of Coke you are confident it will perform like it usually does. In reality Coca Cola is better at standardising their stuff than the official cult, but within limits the New OT I you get in England is pretty similar to the New OT I you will get in LA or DK. Similarly for the OT I delivered between 1972 and 1982(-ish).

Now, when a freezoner talks about the gains they got (or didn't get) from "OT II" or "OT III," most people who are familiar with what the CofS calls by those names (which is covered under their Service Mark OT, number 158 on my cult trademarks list at http://fzglobal.org/trademarks.htm), think they are talking about those services. But in reality, who knows what the hell they did, as it wasn't done within the cult at one of their usual places of business!

-----

Reading over this, I see that I am being overly punctilious, and this should probably be tossed into the who-gives-a-fuck bin as I imagine most people get the general idea from your remark. But it seems a shame to throw out my careful bitching, so here we are. :)

Paul

Sort of reminds me of a FZer who rather haughtily said " I deliver Standard NOTS in the field ! I do a Standard Assessment of the Tarot cards! "

I thought to myself " Well who would argue with THAT "? & let it slide.

There are a couple of people who do scientology processing in the field that I have always respected. Then there are those who just could not cut it as an auditor in the CoS who now claim to be FZers delivering all sorts of things.

If I'm going to pay for a new white Chevy I don't want to be delivered a used brown Yugo - or a bicycle.
 

phenomanon

Canyon
Yea...but still outside, walking around....

Yeah, I did mine (in 1969) walking around spotting bodies in MacArthur Park. I was so creeped out by the weirdos in the Park that I left and went shopping. I bought a yellow dress that felt like sinshine. Then I attested. Then onto OT2 tra la tra la la
 

phenomanon

Canyon
Right but I do think there were others giving input or being pillaged for data by Hubbard even in those earlier years too.

I may be mistaken about COHA being the book which covers the procedure known as Waterloo Station but the simple fact that it was originally done in Waterloo (a railway station in London) tells you that it's from the UK years. I remember it from the old PABs and Congress tapes but I can't really recall where I first saw it and I don't have scientology books to hand here, they're banned in this house. :)

In any event, Waterloo Station is dissimilar in several ways in that it's an audited action rather than solo'd and it has various "not-know about" commands etc. My point, really, was that Old OT1 is more like Waterloo Station (spotting people) than the Sunshine RD (spotting objects).

Sunshine Rundown is a piece of crap.
IIRC, the Old OT1 could at least give you a sort of valence shift.
SSRD gives nothing. It's stupid.
 

Glenda

Crusader
Sunshine Rundown is a piece of crap.
IIRC, the Old OT1 could at least give you a sort of valence shift.
SSRD gives nothing. It's stupid.

I disagree, in a way that is probably not what this thread is about. :)

I have fond memories of my Sunshine R/D. I loved getting out of the advanced org and wandering around the streets, in the sunshine. I loved getting away from the high-focused intense AO environment & being out in real life for an hour or so. I loved getting some time to myself, not being harassed by some over-heated person in a fake navy suit, demanding something of me. I loved the solitude and peace of being alone.

Did it alter my identity? Giggle. Of course not. But I did enjoy myself on my Sunshine R/D. It was a lovely day in Sydney. :)
 

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
I disagree, in a way that is probably not what this thread is about. :)

I have fond memories of my Sunshine R/D. I loved getting out of the advanced org and wandering around the streets, in the sunshine. I loved getting away from the high-focused intense AO environment & being out in real life for an hour or so. I loved getting some time to myself, not being harassed by some over-heated person in a fake navy suit, demanding something of me. I loved the solitude and peace of being alone.

Did it alter my identity? Giggle. Of course not. But I did enjoy myself on my Sunshine R/D. [highlight]It was a lovely day in Sydney[/highlight]. :)

Lucky old you, I was in Edinburgh Scotland when I did mine, (OTI) it was the middle of winter, and it was fucking freezing!
 
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phenomanon

Canyon
I disagree, in a way that is probably not what this thread is about. :)

I have fond memories of my Sunshine R/D. I loved getting out of the advanced org and wandering around the streets, in the sunshine. I loved getting away from the high-focused intense AO environment & being out in real life for an hour or so. I loved getting some time to myself, not being harassed by some over-heated person in a fake navy suit, demanding something of me. I loved the solitude and peace of being alone.

Did it alter my identity? Giggle. Of course not. But I did enjoy myself on my Sunshine R/D. It was a lovely day in Sydney. :)

Lovely post.
I never 'did' SSRD as a PC, so my perception of it differs. I only know it as a Cl V111 student. We studied all the OT levels on the course., and I had PCs who 'did' it. Public.
I can sure see how Staff would vue it as a release.
 

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

It was!

I travelled back down south in a coach. It was late at night and the Scottish countryside can be quite sparsely populated, so there wasn't much light pollution. Looking out of the window I could see an enormous full-moon and it was almost surreal. I could easily have convinced myself that I really was Clear and OTI at that moment in time.
 

Glenda

Crusader
It was!

I travelled back down south in a coach. It was late at night and the Scottish countryside can be quite sparsely populated, so there wasn't much light pollution. Looking out of the window I could see an enormous full-moon and it was almost surreal. I could easily have convinced myself that I really was Clear and OTI at that moment in time.

Sounds gorgeous! Nothing like a moon-lit landscape to evoke other-world ideas.

Maybe bad mad Ron-the-cult-leader was actually seeing the world through "moon-lit eyes". Somehow I doubt it! More like drug-addled eyes. :)

Does anyone know when the profile booklet, "L. Ron Hubbard: the drug-addled writer" is due out? :wink2:
 

RogerB

Crusader
Well,Glenda, who I adore as one of my heroes . . . what you wrote here:
"I loved getting some time to myself, not being harassed by some over-heated person in a fake navy suit, demanding something of me. I loved the solitude and peace of being alone."

Is rather like what a lot a folks get from a good holiday away from "the office" . . .

And I say this in the context of not disparaging what you got from the level . . . but in truth, that the "OT" levels are touted as to bring about phenomenal states of Being change . . . and this OT1 crap gives folks what they can get from a holiday break from the office!!??!!

Believe me, I just came back from 9 days in Europe . . . man, it did more for me than ALL the CC and OT levels . . . and because I am spiritually literate, the gain will be stable and permanent!

Phenom knows what she speaks of . . . he wisdom is valuable.

From experience, I have observed that any activity/process that gets you out of your head and truly, fully experiencing and communing with the real world of nature and pleasures out there is UPLIFTING and is the stuff of case gain . . . the trick is to understand the true nature and why of the change . . . and to not assign it off to some phony, fraudulent guru's OT tech!

And for yous who are not familiar with the "old tech" . . . back in around '61 Hubbs spoke of the phenomenon of reaching to the environment and being made to communicate to the physical universe causes the Being to "make space" and thus become more causative etc. . . .

R

/
 

Billy Blinder

Patron with Honors
Lucky old you, I was in Edinburgh Scotland when I did mine, it was the middle of winter, and it was fucking freezing!

I think I'll do my own version of the Sunshine Rundown. I'll go out back in the sunshine and pull some weeds. Those buggers keep popping up out of nowhere, they must be akin to BT's. I think I'll hook up the ole emeter and see if I get some TA. :happydance:
 

Billy Blinder

Patron with Honors
we wereunning COHA processes in Phoenix in 1953.
There weremany ppl involved in "the work" then.

cool, thanks for the clarification and I stand corrected.

And I do remember now listening to the early 1950's lectures, part of the Basics all of us later scientologists had to listen to in the DM era. And I now remember people involved in those process's, my bad. Thanks Panda as well.
 

Glenda

Crusader
Well,Glenda, who I adore as one of my heroes . . . what you wrote here:


Is rather like what a lot a folks get from a good holiday away from "the office" . . .

And I say this in the context of not disparaging what you got from the level . . . but in truth, that the "OT" levels are touted as to bring about phenomenal states of Being change . . . and this OT1 crap gives folks what they can get from a holiday break from the office!!??!!

Believe me, I just came back from 9 days in Europe . . . man, it did more for me than ALL the CC and OT levels . . . and because I am spiritually literate, the gain will be stable and permanent!

Phenom knows what she speaks of . . . he wisdom is valuable.

From experience, I have observed that any activity/process that gets you out of your head and truly, fully experiencing and communing with the real world of nature and pleasures out there is UPLIFTING and is the stuff of case gain . . . the trick is to understand the true nature and why of the change . . . and to not assign it off to some phony, fraudulent guru's OT tech!

And for yous who are not familiar with the "old tech" . . . back in around '61 Hubbs spoke of the phenomenon of reaching to the environment and being made to communicate to the physical universe causes the Being to "make space" and thus become more causative etc. . . .

R

/

Yeah. Trip to Shanghai for a week anyone? Stand over the city on the 43rd floor and look out as far as the eye can see, at humanity? Maybe jump on a fast train over to Nanjing and wander around a few places in-between? A boat ride on the old Grand Canal? A gentle stroll around a few temples, smiling and nodding at monks?

Character building stuff. I call it "connecting with life". Feeling it all, experiencing it all, for all it is worth. The good, the bad, the beautiful, the ugly, the sweet, the sour, the hot, the cold, the bright, the dull. It all inter-weaves nicely if you just stay still & quiet enough. :)

Am I "more causative" from living life? Hell no! I can't walk on water, turn the stuff into wine, nor stop traffic. :wink2:

Okay I do know how to stop traffic. You learn fast when it is essential to getting to the other side of a road without being squashed. Practical ya know. :)
 
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