Where Are All My Friends?

Discussion in 'Leaving Scientology' started by Voodoo, May 21, 2019.

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  1. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    There could be many reasons why no action has been taken (assuming it hasn't been) and some of them were touched upon earlier in the thread.

    It's good that the two of you are talking to each other directly about it though and I hope it resolves something for you.
     
  2. Voodoo

    Voodoo Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow

    Deception? I just love how you continually ascribe actions, thoughts, attitudes, and emotions to me that I have not displayed or communicated. I've known about your OSA Lite career experience since before we PM'd each other. You've mentioned it several times in public. Maybe that's where you learned how to conduct public third party ops, like the one you're carrying out now.

    I never threatened you with legal action. How ridiculous. On what grounds could I sue you for slandering someone else? As far as my "hostility" is concerned, you must be some special kind of snowflake to feel threatened by anything I've said. I've communicated my strong disagreement with your ESMB crusade against Mike Rinder, and I've done it in unambiguous, adult language. If that hurts your feelings, sonny, I'm really sorry, but I won't take back a single word.

    No, you haven't insulted or attacked me personally, but I've also done nothing to warrant such. You, on the other hand, have earned every bit of enmity you've received on this thread.

    I started this conversation with you on a very low flame. I merely suggested that you take up your concerns with Mike, instead of going on a long third party rant behind his back. When you ser-fac'd, I turned the heat up, and it's been getting hotter all the while, because you still won't man up and get with Mike one on one.

    You don't have to keep talking to me about this (or any) subject if you don't want to, but rest assured that I'll comment wherever I see you running down Mike behind his back.
     
  3. Karakorum

    Karakorum supressively reasonable

    1. So you were fine with that knowledge before when you have sent me a PM, but now you pretend to be outraged by it and call me gestapo, OSA lite and whatnot?
    2. Or wait, maybe you were outraged from the start, but you just pretended to be fine with it so I would answer the personal question you had asked me via PM?

    So which one is it? Either way, there is deception involved. Man up to it.

    Also, do you hold this view when it comes to all ethics officers, or are you simply biased against me and don't care about ethics either way?
    If Astra would come to the forums, would you also throw "gestapo" insults at her?

    What about post #101 ? "step back before you wind up in court for charges of libel" - sure sounds like a lawsuit threat to me. :biggrin:
    I do not recall writing that I feel threatened by anything you said. I instead accused you of insults, personal attacks and making legal threats. Which is exactly what you did. Your posts containing these are there for anyone to read.
    I have expressed an opinion on why I do not have trust in Mike and have put forward arguments explaining why this is the case. Instead of countering those arguments, you have engaged in a fallacious argumentative strategy aka "ad hominem attacks", which ironically is exactly what Co$ does with its critics.

    You are free to disagree with my opinions. Likewise, I am free to call you out on duplicity and personal attacks once you have resorted to these.

    You had not provided any convincing counterarguments and instead just followed up with insults. And now you wonder why I haven't complied with your suggested course of action? :hysterical:
    Be my guest. Though perhaps its not surpriusing to see that Mike is handling his own case in a much more cool and level-headed way than you were.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
  4. Voodoo

    Voodoo Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow

    Your former career as an OSA Lite enforcer is of interest, insofar as you may be using your old intelligence bureau skills to foment some sort of schism in the ex-Scn community. It in itself has nothing to do with my disagreements with you.


    It was a word to the wise. You've accused Mike of being guilty of being an accessory to criminal acts. In public and in writing. Those are strong words that just might get you a response from Mike's attorney.

    Your opinion is nothing more than a scurrilous accusation of impropriety at best, and criminal complicity at worst. I called you on it because this is the wrong venue to make such accusations, unless you've got incontrovertible proof of such charges.

    Again, this is a small community, with many interconnecting relationships. What you're doing amounts to tongue wagging over the back fence in a small town. You're fomenting division amongst natural allies, when you should be taking this up with Mike, one on one.
     
  5. Karakorum

    Karakorum supressively reasonable

    So it was all fine with you when you had information that you wanted to ask me about. But once you got the answer you wanted and saw me state opinions that you don't agree with, politeness went out the window. Gotcha :no:

    Well, Mike was brave enough to confirm what I guessed at and that he had indeed, using his own words: "Covered up numerous incidents up ensure there was no flap" because it was his job inside scn.

    Thus I have my response from Mike, he's not making legal threats nor is his lawyer. The only one that is making these is you.

    I went forward with reasoning that was based on public information as well as on my own experiences and the vague notion of how OSA operates. Mike got into a discussion with me on his blog and confirmed that part of my reasoning was correct. So what's your problem now?

    Mike's honest reply did much more to change my opinion about this than all your insults put together. Perhaps you should take note.
    "Interconnecting relationships", "formenting division"? Geez that certainly feels like the thought-police charges I faced inside Co$.Thanks for the trip down memory lane :laugh:

    There is nothing wrong about asking questions and questioning established authorities including in public. If everyone started doing this inside Co$, the church would be gone or would have to entirely reform itself.
     
  6. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    ... it's time to turn on the oven and prepare the orange sauce. :coolwink:

    Sorry Voodoo, just couldn't resist it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
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  7. Voodoo

    Voodoo Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow

    Posted by Mike Rinder on 6 December 2016:

    "One concern I have is that the show does not really give voice to my regret about things I have done during my time in the church that may have caused suffering to others. I think it captures the regrets I have about my children, always the answer to the question “What is your biggest regret.” But it is not the whole picture and I fear it will appear that this is ALL I care about.

    So, let me set the record straight in case that is the impression that is created: I apologize to anyone I hurt, and I am truly sad that I was that person. The only thing I feel I can do about it let that be know, but more importantly, try to make good going forward. I certainly wish I had been smarter and had not believed so strongly that what I was doing all those years in the Sea Org was “saving the planet.” And that I had not bought into the idea that every decision is based on “the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics” (where the Third Dynamic counts 20 and each of the other 7 count 1), nor had I subscribed to L. Ron Hubbard’s “Code of Honor” – particularly “never fear harming another in a just cause.” I now see these as false and harmful “stable data” and sometimes wonder at my blindness.

    Today, I try to live with what I see is the truth, not what someone else tells me is the truth. I attempt to do what I think is right. I am not living in the past or living a life of regret by any means. But I feel it is important to the people out there who may have been on the short end of the stick I was wielding to know where I am at. For whatever reason I did not feel, for me, that this truly comes through in the show.

    Apart from my new family and the many friends who have been incredibly supportive of me, perhaps the greatest happiness I find in life is when I hear that I have helped someone as a result of exposing the abuses rampant in scientology."

    https://www.mikerindersblog.org/scientology-the-aftermath-episode-2/
     
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  8. Karakorum

    Karakorum supressively reasonable

    What's your point here? I've already received today a reply directly from Mike about the issue of coverups of child abuse and rape. Which was much shorter and straight to the point than this long quote from 2.5 years ago. What does this have to do with my previous post again?

    If for some absurd reason you don't feel like claling it quits, then maybe you could adress my posts?
     
  9. Voodoo

    Voodoo Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow

    Man, you really are thick, aren't you? I posted that quote from Mike to help you put a sock in it. It's what you've been asking for since you started this noise.

    Oh really. Do share. I'd love to see Mike's response. It's probably far more diplomatic than any of my posts to you.
     
  10. Karakorum

    Karakorum supressively reasonable

    Nope, i guess you have missed the point.
    I already did in the link at post #125. I don't know how you could have missed it... oh yeah you probably don't even read my posts. No wonder you miss the point all the time.

    Regardless, our short discussion is on his blog here
     
  11. Voodoo

    Voodoo Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow

    So, are you finally done with this, or are you going to keep running Mike down behind his back?
     
  12. Karakorum

    Karakorum supressively reasonable

    Whatever man. Just go and read the first 3 sentences from this previous post of mine. :drama2:

    Mike admitted to being behind the coverups, so I was right on that part. He also stated that he already told the feds everything, but they are not taking action. I have no way to know for sure, I can only take Mike's word for it that he really told everything. Case of innocent until proven guilty.

    My personal opinion on Mike improved, I appreciate the fact that he was brave enough to admitt to the abuse coverups in public. That's stern stuff, I tip my hat.



    I don't have a crusade against Mike. I want to see the coverups end, abuses terminated and SO women able to have kids without being coerced to have abortions. If Leah and Mike can bring this about, then mazel tov
     
  13. PirateAndBum

    PirateAndBum Gold Meritorious Patron

    Mike's been out for 12 years. Most (if not all) of the information he would have would be beyond statute of limitations. He has talked to authorities, like the FBI. He's not a District Attorney or a Dept of Justice prosecutor. I'm satisfied that he is doing what he CAN do. He's done A LOT!
     
  14. Tanchi

    Tanchi Patron with Honors

    You have basically shared your direct communication with Rinder. I'm appalled, no maybe perplexed you did that.
    Still, Mike talked to authorities. You reckon he wore an Anonymous mask? Or spoke as himself?
     
  15. Karakorum

    Karakorum supressively reasonable

    I've been declared for over a decade. I can communicate with all the other SPs out including Leah, Tony or Mike if I and they feel like it. What is Co$ gonna do about it, declare me again? :hysterical:
     
  16. Tanchi

    Tanchi Patron with Honors

    Did you read my post? Your post didn't respond to it.
     
  17. Karakorum

    Karakorum supressively reasonable

    I thought you were perplexed by the fact that I openly exchange views with Mike Rinder on his blog, thus somehow inciting Co$ wrath on myself (and that you probably didn't know I was declared already).

    If this was not it, then why exactly are you appalled and perplexed about? Maybe we don't follow one another here. (OMG, not another forum MU case!) ;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
  18. This is NOT OK !!!!

    This is NOT OK !!!! Gold Meritorious Patron

    I'm curious about something.

    Mike was "International Spokesperson", "OSA PR" and whatever titles were used. He spoke at a lot of events, he did the 1 on 1 interviews with the press and so forth.

    But was he ever the CO OSA INT? And even if; is it really possible that he could operate all the OSA invests with millions spent on PIs and other ne'er-do-wells and so forth while at the same time handling all the press and PR duties?

    I don't remember his name being mentioned as being involved in all the skullduggery around LRH's death either.

    Rath-bone - YES

    Rinder - ?????
     
  19. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    It's OK, it wasn't a private discussion, it was on an open board (Mike's blog). I posted it on this thread (post 119) in case Karakorum had not seen Mikes reply to him, at that point he hadn't replied back to Mike, he may have done now though.

    :)
     
  20. Tanchi

    Tanchi Patron with Honors

    Probably an MU.