What's new

Why the Freezone is as bad as the Church

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Interesting post. I think that any time any evangelizing or proselytizing or even plain ol' advertizing is going on, that some distortions are inevitable.
It just may be an inherent pitfall that one has to avoid or work with or be aware of.
 

Alan

Gold Meritorious Patron
The Scio Bridge (the one that was finalized in the 1970s) is what's delivered by the Scientology Freezone.

Sounds as though you and Anabaptist Jacques agree more than you disagree.

I wasn't disagreeing with Anabaptist Jacques - just expanding the horizen :)
 

Cat's Squirrel

Gold Meritorious Patron
Interesting post. I think that any time any evangelizing or proselytizing or even plain ol' advertizing is going on, that some distortions are inevitable.
It just may be an inherent pitfall that one has to avoid or work with or be aware of.

Agreed. I dislike evangelising anyway, it's very unBritish.
 

Smitty

Silver Meritorious Patron
comment to Dulloldfart

This would mean that any FZers who went along with it would have to be willing to be crammed and go through all the ludicrous retraining, including the GATling gun massacre. I don't see that happening at all.

Paul

GATling gun massacre?! LMAO I love it.
Smitty
 

Ladybird

Silver Meritorious Patron
Cat's Squirell, I am just wondering and have wondered many times, is your avatar a picture of my old friend Catherine Cariatoke? May she rest in peace. It looks like her, if you don't know who she was just google her name.
 

Cat's Squirrel

Gold Meritorious Patron
Cat's Squirell, I am just wondering and have wondered many times, is your avatar a picture of my old friend Catherine Cariatoke? May she rest in peace. It looks like her, if you don't know who she was just google her name.

Sorry to disappoint you, but no it isn't; it's the first singer of the American rock band Jefferson Airplane in the '60's, Signe Anderson.

Can't find anything on Catherine btw.
 

Ladybird

Silver Meritorious Patron
Lulz...here is what I look like:

graceslickconglom02.jpg


I have pics of Cat, but can't download them. You are correct, googling her name gets you no hits. Try googling "kali ceremony".

http://groups.google.com/group/alt....roup=alt.religion.scientology&q=kali+ceremony

This will provide you with hours of entertainment, you might even learn something.
 

FinallyMe

Silver Meritorious Patron
to TAJ

Loved your list of attributes - and then seeing your statements proven! Interesting to me because this type of what I call literalness or nit-pickyness was taught by the GO to operatives that infiltrated various businesses. I later find that exactly this sort of tactic is used by, say, alcoholics, as in "Did you sleep with her?" Answer by alcoholic "Absolutely not" -- meaning that he did not "sleep". All diversion of attention and avoidance. I am impressed that you were able to pick up on the mechanics of the non-answer and thank you very much for posting them!
 

Cat's Squirrel

Gold Meritorious Patron
Last edited:

WrongPlaceRightTime

Patron Meritorious
Your analysis is terribly flawed - at this stage of spiritual evolution - we (the public person) are just getting in the smidgens of spiritual literacy.

At best we are in the familiarization stage.

Light touch and wins are the keys to growth at this stage - Scio has lost its public - it will never get them back - reason - Enforced misapplication of Ethics!

More and more old time Rons Org people are coming onto my lines - they are very easy to correct - reason - Less enforced Ethics Conditions. :)

Put together with the new found "old stuff" such as the Secret - Eckard Tolles work, Law of Attraction, etc., and there are millions getting smidgens of spiritual literacy.

It was this "old stuff" that led me and most of the early pioneers to Scio - almost 50 years ago.

Scio is a tiny tool (due to its very incomplete technology) in the overall scheme of things - todays Organized Scio is in actuality violently opposed Organizationally to the "old stuff."

The Scio Bridge is a bridge to nowhere! I've walked every inch of it (multiple times) - took me 30 years to clean up the mess it caused. :bigcry: :bigcry: :bigcry:

Alan

HERE HERE!
 

Pitbull

Patron with Honors
Lady Bird, you're not, not really, Grace Slick, are you?

Well, if you are Grace Slick, then I'm Peter Fonda...


peter_fonda.jpg
 

asagai

Patron Meritorious
That's a discussion I should have with him, not you. Arguments by proxy are mostly pointless.

Sheesh! this is a discussion board! What's wrong with discussing what someone else has said! For goodness sake! Another brilliant example of what TAJ was talking about in the first post on this thread!

I simply wanted you to address the main thrust of the posting instead of diverting and avoiding. Your response - more avoiding! Sheesh! :melodramatic: :melodramatic: :melodramatic:

Top marks TAJ for accurately predicting a scientologist's manifestation of their thinking! :thumbsup:

Like FinallyMe, I too knew that the GO taught evasive nit-picking.....
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
Loved your list of attributes - and then seeing your statements proven! Interesting to me because this type of what I call literalness or nit-pickyness was taught by the GO to operatives that infiltrated various businesses. I later find that exactly this sort of tactic is used by, say, alcoholics, as in "Did you sleep with her?" Answer by alcoholic "Absolutely not" -- meaning that he did not "sleep". All diversion of attention and avoidance. I am impressed that you were able to pick up on the mechanics of the non-answer and thank you very much for posting them!

There are certainly many examples on the Dinner with Terril thread. It's quite eye opening watching who says what. :whistling:
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Evasions are often used by groups or people who are trying to evade or abrade or spin the truth.

But there're other things in play here. When someone is trying to honestly answer a question to the best of his or her ability and either wants to but it's beyond his or her capabilities OR is truly doing so but his or her answer is not accepted by the other person, then it's often taken as an evasion.

On the other thread, people are trying to answer the comments of others. In at least a couple cases, after explanations were tendered, others have said they don't want to discuss it, that it's semantics or circular whatevers.

What this really means is that some people are not happy with others and that this is getting in the way. Thus, evasions are sometimes perceived where there aren't any or where it's really a matter of someone either having difficulty defending his position because he doesn't HAVE the answer or because someone else didn't want to accept the answer.

Every now and again on forums, someone will ask or even demand an explanation or comment. If they don't get it or they think it's scanty, doesn't fit the bill or whatever, then sometimes they'll say the person evades or does not answer questions. But if they DO get detailed explanations, then sometimes the questionner then says the person is actually backpedaling.

That is exactly why I think that when it gets all temperamental like that, that it's a matter of people really just not being not happy with other people. It becomes emotional, people start feeling angry, resentful, exasperated, whatever.

But you know what? When non Scn'ists of critical inclination come over to the Freezone section, they're kinda not on critical turf anymore, in a way. There's been a lot of resentment expressed about Freezoners running rampant all over the forum and on many threads and in fact, depending on the post, there is even some validity to this. Really.

But then some of those same folks drop in to the FZ section, start evangelizing THEIR stuff and...oops!:omg:
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
Evasions are often used by groups or people who are trying to evade or abrade or spin the truth.

But there're other things in play here. When someone is trying to honestly answer a question to the best of his or her ability and either wants to but it's beyond his or her capabilities OR is truly doing so but his or her answer is not accepted by the other person, then it's often taken as an evasion.

On the other thread, people are trying to answer the comments of others. In at least a couple cases, after explanations were tendered, others have said they don't want to discuss it, that it's semantics or circular whatevers.

What this really means is that some people are not happy with others and that this is getting in the way. Thus, evasions are sometimes perceived where there aren't any or where it's really a matter of someone either having difficulty defending his position because he doesn't HAVE the answer or because someone else didn't want to accept the answer.

Every now and again on forums, someone will ask or even demand an explanation or comment. If they don't get it or they think it's scanty, doesn't fit the bill or whatever, then sometimes they'll say the person evades or does not answer questions. But if they DO get detailed explanations, then sometimes the questionner then says the person is actually backpedaling.

That is exactly why I think that when it gets all temperamental like that, that it's a matter of people really just not being not happy with other people. It becomes emotional, people start feeling angry, resentful, exasperated, whatever.

But you know what? When non Scn'ists of critical inclination come over to the Freezone section, they're kinda not on critical turf anymore, in a way. There's been a lot of resentment expressed about Freezoners running rampant all over the forum and on many threads and in fact, depending on the post, there is even some validity to this. Really.

But then some of those same folks drop in to the FZ section, start evangelizing THEIR stuff and...oops!:omg:

If you mean the Freezone section on ESMB - do you consider this to be only for "Freezoners" to talk amongst themselves? Why would that not be "kinda not critical turf"? Who are these "same folks" and what is "their stuff"?

If you consider yourself a Scientologist Fluffy, why do you use so many generalities in your posts (bolded) when you know what Hubbard says about that? Yes I know that we need to be careful about personal insults when posting, but it is possible to be a little more specific. And note - this is NOT an attack on you. Just askin.
 

Pixie

Crusader
I think that if Lron thought he could get away with it, he'd have gassed all the phsycs, half the government and anyone else he thought was going to get in his way of ruling the world and making all men his own personal slaves. The proof of what he has created and why is all over the internet for everyone to see. I personally would not want to be associated with anything he 'created', in fact no one really factually knows the long term damage to the mind with his 'tech' and the constant reading of his twisted words.

I to this day, have not been able to think 'straight' since being booted out of the cult for asking too many questions, there are times I find it hard to think at all, I still clamber around in the dark in order to articulate anything such was the real horror and trauma I was put through the whole way through my KTL and LOC. Before the cult, I was extremely creative and had no attention on words or how to communicate with prince or pauper. Since getting out, I still feel there is a part of me that is stuck, and to this day, I find it extremely difficult to read or to write.

I've not seen many threads on how people really feel about the effects of the 'tech' and the auditing they have recieved, all we have to compare it to is what we were like before the cult and what we're like now, and this is difficult I understand as much time has gone by for most of us, but in this case I can only speak for myself. For me, I do feel damaged. The anger and the rage have subsided thanks to this forum, however I still come up against 'walls' that do not make sense to me and I still get flashbacks.

Being told you have a 'case' in the first place is damaging and detrimental to the basic personality of an individual being and that's just for starters. We were told we were all robots in no uncertain terms, of course we were, we were all studying and applying the same thing, there was no room for individuality! KSW was hammered home ten times a day at the least and seck checks were rife leaving one paranoid and suspicious of everyone not to mention feeling like a criminal. KR's were enforced making out it was fine to spy on your friends. We all know what went on, but what we don't know, was the long term damage, so for someone to want to continue to apply these 'techniques' makes me think that the effects of the 'tech' has done it's job.

One cannot compare other religions to scientology, for a start it is not a religion, it's an 'applied' philosophy, and source was it's root. If we agree it's a dangerous CULT, and this is an EX board, I still cannot see how anyone would even want to keep applying it even if only in bits and pieces, it's contradictory in the extreme, and for sure it removes critical thinking skills because one cannot even explain why one has the viewpoint of the CULT one has, particularly when one is trying to defend it. The diversion tactics are classic, I live with an alcoholic, I get this all the time, and it's difficult not to get angry because the attention is always thrown the other way just to confuse.

All I am saying here is that I just do not understand why anyone would want to be a party to such an insidious and evil structure, they have tortured thousands and thousands, destroyed families, murdered, stolen, lied.. how and why would anyone want to be associated with them never mind continue to apply it's teachings?
 

Escalus

Patron Meritorious
Evasions are often used by groups or people who are trying to evade or abrade or spin the truth.

But there're other things in play here. When someone is trying to honestly answer a question to the best of his or her ability and either wants to but it's beyond his or her capabilities OR is truly doing so but his or her answer is not accepted by the other person, then it's often taken as an evasion.

On the other thread, people are trying to answer the comments of others. In at least a couple cases, after explanations were tendered, others have said they don't want to discuss it, that it's semantics or circular whatevers.

But not me.

I've done my level best to stay with it despite the noise at the other end of the table. At this point Terril has wandered off somewhere and 95% of what's being said there is actually off topic. I think the thing of it is... just from observation?... nobody seems ready to be specific about what I'm asking. It may not be, it may be something I don't get yet, but it looks like embarrassment at not having anything specific to answer with.

I'm ready at any time to continue, but I post something and I get a pack of barking dogs from both sides of the debate yapping at my heels.

Looking at my effort there, I think I can be excused for wondering just what the hell I'm dealing with here.
 

Oneflewover

Patron with Honors
But not me.

I've done my level best to stay with it despite the noise at the other end of the table. At this point Terril has wandered off somewhere and 95% of what's being said there is actually off topic. I think the thing of it is... just from observation?... nobody seems ready to be specific about what I'm asking. It may not be, it may be something I don't get yet, but it looks like embarrassment at not having anything specific to answer with.

I'm ready at any time to continue, but I post something and I get a pack of barking dogs from both sides of the debate yapping at my heels.

Looking at my effort there, I think I can be excused for wondering just what the hell I'm dealing with here.

What did you ask that wasn't answered?
 
Top