Withholds, relationships and self-inflicted mind control

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by Orglodyte 2, Mar 5, 2018.

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  1. Bill

    Bill Silver Meritorious Patron

    On the contrary, what goes on in the SO is the essence of what Hubbard's "tech" is all about. Hubbard's "tech" is all about control and the ultimate expression of control is abuse.
     
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  2. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Huh!?

    If you are designated a threat by the GO/OSA the policy was always to cull your PC folders for things that can be used against you - things that were told in session with a promise of confidentiality and trust that it would be handled with dignity and respect.

    How is that not what Scientology is if LRH ordered it?
     
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  3. Koot

    Koot Patron with Honors

    Your mis-duplication is abysmal
     
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  4. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    Hubbard talked a lot about "control", but what turned him on was Power.

    Power for its own sake.

    The power to degrade and humiliate others on a whim, just for the enjoyment of being able to do so.
     
  5. Bill

    Bill Silver Meritorious Patron

    Koot, You really need to read and duplicate KSW #1 and "Responsibility of Leaders" -- both by your Hubbard. You have major misunderstoods which you should find and clear.
    • Students must comply fully with Course Supervisors, student policies, etc., Must exactly duplicate the course materials without deviation. They cannot stray from Hubbard's "tech". Any non-compliance must be met with "ferocity" = CONTROL.
    • Course Supervisors must comply fully with all Hubbard policies on course supervision. Any deviation must be met with "ferocity" = CONTROL.
    • Preclears must comply with every auditor command without fail. That's what the TRs are all about.. Preclears may not leave session and the session will not finish without compliance = CONTROL.
    • Auditors must comply with Case Supervisor instructions with must comply completely with every Hubbard HCOB -- or they will be "ferociously" corrected in Qual. = CONTROL
    • Every staff member must comply with every HCOPL, every order from any superior. The threat of RPF was created by Hubbard to ensure compliance = CONTROL.
    • No one in Scientology is allowed to disobey Hubbard's PLs, HCOBs, Lectures, EDs, etc. = CONTROL
    What part of Scientology isn't about CONTROL? Hmm? You have much to learn but I doubt you can.

    As I said, the ultimate expression of control is abuse and the Sea Org epitomizes this.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
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  6. lotus

    lotus autonomous rebellous

    Fixed it to meet with facts:

    What goes on in the SO is a real perfect picture of the true nature of $cientology and it's founder : A small paranoid\megalomaniac universe concentrated with all the $cientology components that has ever existed... per LRH policies and orders. It's Ron's elite corp exactly as he wanted it to be.

    However, the midget got rid of small kids...so no more small kids used as slaves neither them put in the RPF for free manual work..no more happy valley......so the small kids were saved from Uncle Ronnie policies for them to be put on posted as staff member from age 6.

    p.s. it seems you wasn't aboard the apollo ship to confront Uncle Ronnie evilness with adults, students, and small kids..pure cruelty and sadism.
    His laughters about all those psychological and physical abuses and constant humiliations were provided for free though to the staff (nice onboard distraction with hisself talent in entertainement)...Weren't you there to laugh with Hisself ????
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2018
  7. Koot

    Koot Patron with Honors

    I LIKE control. Control is a good thing. I have no problem being controlled if I agree with the reasons. i can control others. I like it. (That's right 99, we have to fight chaos. "Maxwell Smart." ) Bullying is bull shit. I think we can agree on that.
     
  8. Bill

    Bill Silver Meritorious Patron

    When the control works only in one direction it is always bad. That is Scientology. Students have no control they may only be controlled. Preclears have no control, they must comply. You could say that auditors control the preclear but they must only comply with the C/S, if they don't -- off to Qual or worse. Staff have no control over how they do their jobs -- it must only be Hubbard's way. The lower conditions and RPF are there solely to enforce compliance.

    What part of Scientology allows independence? What part allows rebellion? What part allows doubt? What part allows questions?

    Once a Scientologist shows independence, rebellion, doubt and starts asking questions, they are automatically in deep trouble. They either stop such nonsense and comply or they are declared "Suppressive". That is Scientology. Read KSW#1.

    It's lovely that you "have no problem being controlled". But "being controlled" is only acceptable if you have a choice. In Scientology, you have no choice.
     
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  9. Bill

    Bill Silver Meritorious Patron

    So, Koot, you keep avoiding answering my questions rather well. Let's simplify things:

    Tell me which parts of Scientology allow non compliance to Hubbard's "Tech", policies, orders, directives?
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2018
  10. lotus

    lotus autonomous rebellous

    Koot is not only ignoring you....


    He is performing a gross misapplication of wog tech: awareness and confront.
    Which results in not wanting to know - not wanting to see.
    Uncle Ronnie would be proud of this $cn valuable final product.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2018
  11. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Here is Hubbard’s spiel on how being able to control requires being able to be controlled. I challenge anyone to show where Hubbard or Scientology is subject to control by Scientologists. It is all a one way flow. But once Scientologists adopt this philosophy they do become much more pliable to Scientology and the process being described here actually drills controlling Scientologists and accepting being controlled by Scientologists. These drills were often done for hours and now as part of the Survival Rundown I’m reading Op Pro By Dup can take 60 mind numbing indoctrinating dissociating hours! Don’t think with Hubbard’s ideology about “Control” people.

    https://tonyortega.org/2015/05/08/a...y-yes-the-survival-rundown-drives-you-insane/
    ______________________
    This isn’t a link to the PDF download but you can use this to find it with a google search:

    EN_BO_Control_and_Mechanics_of_SCS.pdf

    START-CHANGE-STOP
    (Refer to “Clear Procedure” by L. Ron Hubbard)
    Start, change and stop is the anatomy of control. This is a cycle of action -- create, survive, destroy. There is continue (persist) on the middle of the curve and other cycles within cycles of action, but the important factors are Start, Change and Stop.
    Running Start, Change and Stop on an individual brings about greater self- determinism.
    Self-determinism in the field of motion consists of, by own power of choice, permitting the object or body to be still or not to be still; permitting a thing to be changed or not to be changed; permitting a thing to be started or not to be started, and it must be rehabilitated in the preclear. In other words, self-determinism consists here of returning the preclear's power of choice over controlling or not controlling at will. The preclear who is obsessively controlling will sooner or later fail to control and then will be controlled by something. The obsession to control, to start, to change, to stop, will be found to enter into the ARC triangle and is what depresses the preclear down scale on the Tone Scale.
    These three parts of control are run flat individually, in this order: we run Change flat, and then run Start again very flat and then we run Stop flat. It would be a mistake at this point to say that this process is finished for the excellent reason that if you run Change again you would find further considerations shifting in the preclear and then if you run Start you would find it unflattened. So you would run it again and then run and flatten Stop.
    It would not be possible to say how long you would have to run the process altogether. On somebody who was total machinery and who never had been in session, this would be a rough process. On a case that is in good condition, this would run easier. The preclear would consider it interesting and would exteriorize quite easily. The end result of this process is exteriorization. For someone who is compulsively exteriorized, this would be excellent as he would slide into his head and eventually come out of it again, but not on a compulsive basis.
    One meets with three conditions in auditing. The preclear who is compulsively interiorized, the preclear who is compulsively exteriorized and the preclear who is buttered all over the universe. The latter case, run on C-S-C would greatly accumulate the ability to collect himself. This might not occur until you have run him for five or more hours on it.
    If this process is continued long enough the preclear will be moving his body by postulate -- i.e., from the outside, not by beams, stimulus response, etc.
    This process does not go all the way up because of the preclear's attention span. Most preclear's cannot stay on a process for more than a few moments, so you would vary the process a little to keep him interested. His actual response, however, is not important as long as he does it.
    There is no such thing as bad control, only non-positive control. Good control is positive control and positive control is not bad control.
    (snipped)
     
  12. Koot

    Koot Patron with Honors

    Horse shit,EVERY person (not counting children)in the "church" is there by their own decision. Their own choice. EVERY person outside the "church" is there by their own decision.
     
  13. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    "No such conditions can exist as descending into vice and its attendant sufferings apart from vicious inclinations, or ascending into virtue and its pure happiness without the continued cultivation of virtuous aspirations"

    and

    “A man's mind may be likened to a garden, which may be intelligently cultivated or allowed to run wild; but whether cultivated or neglected, it must, and will, bring forth. If no useful seeds are put into it, then an abundance of useless weed seeds will fall therein, and will continue to produce their kind.”

    Beware the LRH mind that was of a confidence man seeding his narcissistic thoughts and behaviours.

    Yes, a person always has a choice to think as he wishes but those thoughts of course can heavily influenced by pressures and information available.
    Scientology is extremely narrow minded as intended by the Cult's Source. And some people become trapped in that rut and in thought patterns and in actions become unable to look and think with points of view that are outside that rut. This then can become a road to self and group destruction.
    All on EL Wrong choices.
     
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  14. Bill

    Bill Silver Meritorious Patron

    Zing!! You totally and completely missed the point. Not surprising. Well, be happy-happy-happy in your little bubble of non-confront.

    Time and time again you "miss the point" because your belief system won't let you confront the facts. So what you think you read isn't what's actually there. It's classic non-confront.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2018
  15. Koot

    Koot Patron with Honors

    Happy,Happy, Happy??? And that has something to do with people making their own decisions. Well, I am enlightened, thank you soooomuch
     
  16. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    Perhaps a choice of self inflicted mind control. The mind which does NOT become aware of its own thought processes is liable to become trapped in imagination alone; imagination of others or self.

    ETA NOT
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2018
  17. Bill

    Bill Silver Meritorious Patron

    :roflmao:The only "decisions" that Scientologists can make is: Comply now or try to delay complying for a while.
     
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  18. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    Yes, people make their own decisions, on the basis of the choices they see, and the potential consequences of each choice.

    People who stay on the outer edges of Scientology have one set of choices. People who have allowed themselves to get in too deep, where their work, family, and social network are deeply entwined with Scientology, have a smaller and more restricted set: comply with ever greater demands, or leave the life they built behind.

    One choice that Scientology rigorously does NOT allow, is letting people who defy their orders remain in contact with Scientologists.
     
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  19. Churchill

    Churchill Gold Meritorious Patron


    I think it’s more than classic non-confront. Scientology non confront is special.
    Scientology non-confront is rooted in the “certainty” of KSW as a higher truth. Once the cement dries on that belief, Koot, or anyone, will need a jackhammer to get rid of it...piece by piece.
    Ed Koch, the feisty Mayor of NY had an expression when he encountered someone like Koot. He used to say “I can explain it to you but I can’t comprehend it for you.” There are layers of thought-stopping mechanisms that Scientology instills that are very difficult to deconstruct.

    Koot can do it, maybe. He just needs to comprehend.
     
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  20. Bill

    Bill Silver Meritorious Patron

    Still waiting... :sleepy:
     
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