Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by billyd, Apr 9, 2014.
I'm often not sure whether I'm taking a piss or not either.
Thank God for Depends.
Literally and metaphorically.
What happened to Kilroy - did he join some little cult ?
Most people would agree both hubbard & Hitler were madmen.
Most people would agree both the Nazi & scn movements were totalitarian
Most people would agree both scn & Nazi had hints of some form of some kind of religious tones.
Most people would agree both hubbard & Hitler were into heavy punishment for perceived transgressions against them,
So, it would seem as one moves out from under the influence of the scn mindset the comparisions of scn to Nazi would be startlingly apparent.
And, those still under the influence of the scn mindset don't get the true nature of scn - probably never will.
I think comparing Scientologists to Nazis is a valid comparison - to a certain extent. But are these similarities between them more significant than their similarities to other totalitarian groups? I don't think so. Nazis are just the easiest, most well-known comparison internationally available, that's all.
So what is it that all these totalitarian groups have in common?
- A "visionary madman" leader, or on rare occasions a small group thereof.
- A strictly enforced set of rules everyone has to live by.
- An equally strictly enforced set of beliefs, usually created by their Leader(s).
- A "self-correcting" group of devout followers who make sure that nobody gets out of line.
- One or more enemies or threats which need to be fought.
There are probably a few more points to list, but I'm not a sociologist.
Whether it is/was Hitler-Jugend kids ratting out their parents, or (going back a few decades with this one) young upright citizens of the GDR getting their parents/neighbors/schoolmates into jail for "incorrect thoughts", or devout fanatical Christians making sure everyone lives by "Gods" rules, or Scientologists writing KRs on each other....
Where's the difference?
The difference between the 3. Reich, GDR and Scientology are, the people that are "infiltrated"... It were whole states, with critics inside etc. Scientology is a small group in a "normal" state/world, but they want to get a worl wide state.
Imo there isn't a big difference between other "Cults" and Scientology in the mind controlling way. All want to bring their believes in the world, all are treating their members evil, the most are having a disconnection policy... But Scientology goes the way to infiltrate, even on a criminal way, other states. Eg Jehovas Whitnesses are having the "same" structures as Scientology, but they aren't dangerous for the life of their members. As I know, they don't have RPFs or something like this. They are not having a secret service etc. I believe the treatment of critics (inside and outside) is the difference.
One difference between Scientology and the Nazis / Stasi is that Scientology is still going on. Also, rather than religion being an aspect of it, Scientology presents as an apolitical religion. France, Russia and Germany didn't buy that one, and they know about these sorts of things.
I also like the ßßßß. It is easy to find on my keyboard, because as a native English speaker working in Germany, I felt I had to have a German keyboard. My German colleagues almost all have US keyboards, so they can use familiar keyboard macros. So I the Ausländer send e-mails with Viele Grüße, and get Viele Gruesse back.
Ja, und wie heist zie.Ich hab en Hamburg 5 jaren gewoned.
Ah, as a wise man once said " When you limit the world to your own knowledge it does indeed become a small place ", but, nevermind, on to the points...
Are you really presenting that the depth of what scientologists & scientology ) do is " writing KR's on each other " ?
If you honestly believe that ( which I seriously seriously doubt ) then no wonder you can post " Where's the difference"?
But, some people do come here and post honestly... and some just can't.
Well, carry on.
Group size is the only difference I see. They all work(ed) on manipulation, infiltration and group enforcement.
You think the annual "Festival der Jugend" in Dortmund was just the GDR advertising a bit? No, there was quite a bit of manipulation, infiltration, group enforcement going on plus a few political shenanigans.
Speaking of political shenanigans: Did you know that Angela Merkel was chief secretary of the Freie Deutsche Jugend (FDJ) in her GDR days?
No, JWs don't have the RPF - they have extra sessions in the "Königreichssaal" instead. Big difference, eh? About JWs not being dangerous for the lives of their members... I beg to differ. One former classmate of mine was almost beaten to death by his father, just because he had the audacity to be friends with me.
There may be some gradual differences in the details, but in the grand scheme of things, all totalitarian groups are the same, IMO.
I just took one aspect which I believe exists in all totalitarian groups. In this case I used "group members ratting out anyone who doesn't tow the party line". I could have taken any other point from my list to make the same comparison. Like e.g. "all group members fiercely fighting their alleged enemies - be it Jewish, capitalists or evil psych enemies".
That doesn't automatically make her a bad person. One could not take any position of responsibility behind the former Iron Curtain without belonging to such organizations. I am friends with people who were "under the radar" but still officially card-carrying Communists back in the day.
I, myself, was briefly a member of Komsomol - the Communist Union of Youth.
I was also, until the religious nutcases and psychotic billionaire fans of Ayn Rand took over, a member of the Republican Party.
Having been both and not being a Russian immigrant has to make a bit of an odd duck in the US, but it does not mean I do or ever did totally agree with either organization.
Have I said something different.
I have heard about it.
Yep, I know and that is one reason why I support the Exs from the JWs on my blog sometimes. :wink2:
Since ca. 1 year I know this, since I met other Exes from other Cults... But it exists a reason why Scientology gets observed by the secret service (like the Nazis) in Germany and not the eg JWs and this is imo the criminal way to infiltrade the world. If you are saying they are similar to the eg JWs (nur im Infiltrieren, sonst ist es ähnliche Kacke), they would get a "Religion" in Germany, like the JWs got in some parts of Germany.
I see your point. It's just that I think that rising to the top position of one ideology and then dropping all and rising up to another top position in another organization and supporting a completely different set of ideas is ... ugh, how do I say it? I guess it's a form of ideological prostitution. Not unlike Miscavige dropping his current position in the cult and becoming the president of the International Association of Psychiatrists instead, if you so will.
In other words: I think there's a difference between just "being a member" and "rising to the top".
Since we're both not operating in our "own" language here, it might just be some sort of language barrier. :wink2:
One thing that separates Scientology from many other religions, is the fact that it definitely has a political agenda. But how much different is that from certain Islamic sub-sections?
But I wasn't talking about cults/religions, I was talking about totalitarian groups - which is a slightly different topic, IMHO.
True, which is why I see a difference between M&M and other Exes on this board in terms of their responsibility for the bad stuff.
But Merckel was in the GDR equivalent of Komsomol.
I remember sitting in a dorm in Moscow in the summer of 1990. My roommate, the General Secretary of our branch of Komsomol was talking to one of his members. This younger guy wanted to get a job in the defense industry, and thought that joining the Party (at age 20) would give him a leg up. Oleg, who keep in mind was a regional leader of Komsomol, kept trying to tell him that the Party was not long for this world, and joining it would be a black mark on his record throughout his whole life. So, even in the USSR, officers of Komsomol did not see that organization as an arm of the Party, and did not see membership in the Youth Org as being part of a path to membership in the Party. Maybe it was different in the GDR, but that's the angle I'm coming from.
Oleg never did join the Party and went on to join the armed groups supporting Yeltsin when the Red Army threatened the Byelyi Dom in August 1991. Yet he was one of the leaders of Komsomol in 1990.
Apparently, some people in Germany didn't get the message.
I've always lived in the Western part of Germany, so I have no personal experience to draw from regarding life in the GDR. What I have though, are many conversations with former GDR-citizens. They basically all told me: "If you wanted to get a job, if you wanted to get anywhere in life, you'd better join the FDJ, unless you're old enough to join the SED.
That's the information I have and it comes not only from people I've met after the re-unification of East- and West-Germany, but also from people who had (attempted to) jump the fence, did some significant jail time for that and later were "bought out" by the other side of that fence.
I know spelling flames are lame, but this isn't a flame - I just find this little Freudian hilarious.
Yeah, the information I'm giving you is only one tile in the Mosaic. I have no experience in the GDR - maybe it was different, there. I just keep my experience in mind when people talk about those days.
Merckel was up in the national organization, and that may have been a different beast from the one I was familiar with, as well.