My Afternoon With Scientology, Or: I Visited A Cult So You Don’t Have To — Kirk Lenno

[imSPecial]

http://www.kirklennon.com/a/scientology.html

from the article

After this, I can completely see how they got to be such a successful cult, even after it’s been common knowledge for so long that they aim to control your life and take your money. In my run-down, she really did describe my own failings with shocking accuracy. At several points, I wondered how she could have known, and for a second even wondered if it were possible that they might have somehow researched me secretly while I was taking the test. Except that these were universal human weaknesses that could apply to anybody. And really, it was obvious. Still, I went in there knowing they were going to pull that exact stunt, and it still got to me. I felt truly disturbed for two days. I can completely understand now how somebody thinking this was a legitimate personality exam would be completely taken in. She was a real professional at breaking you down psychologically and claiming ownership of your mind. I really see how someone who wasn’t aware that they’re a cult and was actually seeking help wouldn’t stand a chance.

 

[AnonyMary]

Re: My Afternoon With Scientology, Or: I Visited A Cult So You Don’t Have To — Kirk L

Thanks for posting that article. The stress & personality test lures have created some of the best articles on why Scientology is such a mind*u*k.

I love that you are reading and posting and joining in

 

[Churchill]

Re: My Afternoon With Scientology, Or: I Visited A Cult So You Don’t Have To — Kirk L

My favorite line: "Scientology is ostensibly a religion."

 

[programmer_guy]

Re: My Afternoon With Scientology, Or: I Visited A Cult So You Don’t Have To — Kirk L

http://www.kirklennon.com/a/scientology.html

from the article

After this, I can completely see how they got to be such a successful cult, even after it’s been common knowledge for so long that they aim to control your life and take your money. In my run-down, she really did describe my own failings with shocking accuracy. At several points, I wondered how she could have known, and for a second even wondered if it were possible that they might have somehow researched me secretly while I was taking the test. Except that these were universal human weaknesses that could apply to anybody. And really, it was obvious. Still, I went in there knowing they were going to pull that exact stunt, and it still got to me. I felt truly disturbed for two days. I can completely understand now how somebody thinking this was a legitimate personality exam would be completely taken in. She was a real professional at breaking you down psychologically and claiming ownership of your mind. I really see how someone who wasn’t aware that they’re a cult and was actually seeking help wouldn’t stand a chance.

And for a so-called personality test to be legit it would have to have different questions each time one does it.
When I was "in" (1970s) the questions were always the same every time.

 

[ThetanExterior]

Re: My Afternoon With Scientology, Or: I Visited A Cult So You Don’t Have To — Kirk L

This phenomenon of people agreeing with a generalised personality description is known as the Forer Effect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forer_effect

 

[Enthetan]

Re: My Afternoon With Scientology, Or: I Visited A Cult So You Don’t Have To — Kirk L

And for a so-called personality test to be legit it would have to have different questions each time one does it.
When I was "in" (1970s) the questions were always the same every time.

They used the same IQ test every time, too. This invalidates it, because the subject remembers the answers from the last time, which gives an advantage on a timed test. So, of COURSE the IQ score would be higher when taking the test again after an auditing action.

 

[La La Lou Lou]

Re: My Afternoon With Scientology, Or: I Visited A Cult So You Don’t Have To — Kirk L

Yes much of it applies to anyone but the 200 questions do give some idea of the state a person is in. If you answer that you spend a lot of time worrying then it's fair to assume you are often feeling low or that you go up and down a lot which is probably another question, I can't remember them now.

It wasn't him who devised it, he borrowed it off someone who never was acknowledged of course.

It can be a mixture of intuition and guesswork on the part of the test result giver, much like graphology etc. It's about as accurate as a test for 'is you boyfriend cheating on you' in a cheap mag, and slightly better than a horoscope in a newspaper. Perhaps not quite as good as a palmistry reading where the reader holds your hand and feels your reactions. I'm sure sometimes head bump readers can be accurate too, though many times they can be quite wrong. Perhaps the worse people are those who really think that they have a gift when they really don't. Sometimes you look at someone and feel something, pain, sadness, horror, calmness, serenity it's not obvious what communicates this but you just feel it that's the intuition bit. Its not the shape of a graph, the lines on a hand or the colours they wear it's a special awareness. It's certainly nothing to do with scientology.

 

[Bill]

Re: My Afternoon With Scientology, Or: I Visited A Cult So You Don’t Have To — Kirk L

And, of course, just because they have a "personality analysis" that uncovers things that bother someone doesn't mean Scientology can do anything to help. That's the point most people miss.

 

[Sindy]

Re: My Afternoon With Scientology, Or: I Visited A Cult So You Don’t Have To — Kirk L

They used the same IQ test every time, too. This invalidates it, because the subject remembers the answers from the last time, which gives an advantage on a timed test. So, of COURSE the IQ score would be higher when taking the test again after an auditing action.

Well, that's if you answered the questions correctly the first time. You aren't shown the answers however, remembering the questions I suppose could make it speedier. As long as one finishes all 80 questions within the 30 minutes, it really doesn't matter how fast those 80 questions are answered. In other words, you don't get extra IQ points for finishing in 27 minutes instead of 30 or in 15 minutes instead of 27, and so on. You just gets points off for not finishing within the 30 minutes.

They also gave two different versions, A & B.

Still, I see what you're saying. After awhile, one would get to the know the test pretty well, I suppose. I didn't take it that many times.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

s i

They used the same IQ test every time, too. This invalidates it, because the subject remembers the answers from the last time, which gives an advantage on a timed test. So, of COURSE the IQ score would be higher when taking the test again after an auditing action.

Here's something you never hear about with regard to Scientology IQ Tests. . .

How come PCs who just finished 150 hour block of auditing doesn't ask why their IQ has not gone from 100 (before the intensives) to 250 after? (1 point per hour of processing, according to Hubbard)

I never once heard any Scientologist ask that. Ever.

It would be pretty cool if a raw meat guy comes in with an average IQ and then after objectives has a 250 IQ, the highest in recorded history.

And people attesting to OT VII should have IQs in the THOUSANDS, right? LOL

But, I will also wager that if Scientologists were "standardly surveyed" they would express VVGI's about the LRH datum of IQ going up one point per hour of auditing. They wouldn't wonder why their own IQ hadn't done that as long as someone showed them the "LRH reference" and handed them some clay.

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

Re: s i

Here's something you never hear about with regard to Scientology IQ Tests. . .

How come PCs who just finished 150 hour block of auditing doesn't ask why their IQ has not gone from 100 (before the intensives) to 250 after? (1 point per hour of processing, according to Hubbard)

I never once heard any Scientologist ask that. Ever.

It would be pretty cool if a raw meat guy comes in with an average IQ and then after objectives has a 250 IQ, the highest in recorded history.

And people attesting to OT VII should have IQs in the THOUSANDS, right? LOL

But, I will also wager that if Scientologists were "standardly surveyed" they would express VVGI's about the LRH datum of IQ going up one point per hour of auditing. They wouldn't wonder why their own IQ hadn't done that as long as someone showed them the "LRH reference" and handed them some clay.

Could be true. I don't think IQ tests are that accurate anyway. You can be pretty sure that someone with an IQ of, say, 120 will be more intelligent than someone with an IQ of 100, but differences of a point either way don't really mean much.

 

[Northern Shewolf]

Re: My Afternoon With Scientology, Or: I Visited A Cult So You Don’t Have To — Kirk L

Totally a cold reading....an old theater trick that uses hynotic suggestions...That's it! Shewolf always thought that that personality test was part cold reading/part suggestibility. Thank you for all your posts, painful as they are to you, it is your voice...your experience and that counts!

http://www.kirklennon.com/a/scientology.html

from the article

After this, I can completely see how they got to be such a successful cult, even after it’s been common knowledge for so long that they aim to control your life and take your money. In my run-down, she really did describe my own failings with shocking accuracy. At several points, I wondered how she could have known, and for a second even wondered if it were possible that they might have somehow researched me secretly while I was taking the test. Except that these were universal human weaknesses that could apply to anybody. And really, it was obvious. Still, I went in there knowing they were going to pull that exact stunt, and it still got to me. I felt truly disturbed for two days. I can completely understand now how somebody thinking this was a legitimate personality exam would be completely taken in. She was a real professional at breaking you down psychologically and claiming ownership of your mind. I really see how someone who wasn’t aware that they’re a cult and was actually seeking help wouldn’t stand a chance.

 

[phenomanon]

Re: My Afternoon With Scientology, Or: I Visited A Cult So You Don’t Have To — Kirk L

Yes much of it applies to anyone but the 200 questions do give some idea of the state a person is in. If you answer that you spend a lot of time worrying then it's fair to assume you are often feeling low or that you go up and down a lot which is probably another question, I can't remember them now.

It wasn't him who devised it, he borrowed it off someone who never was acknowledged of course.

It can be a mixture of intuition and guesswork on the part of the test result giver, much like graphology etc. It's about as accurate as a test for 'is you boyfriend cheating on you' in a cheap mag, and slightly better than a horoscope in a newspaper. Perhaps not quite as good as a palmistry reading where the reader holds your hand and feels your reactions. I'm sure sometimes head bump readers can be accurate too, though many times they can be quite wrong. Perhaps the worse people are those who really think that they have a gift when they really don't. Sometimes you look at someone and feel something, pain, sadness, horror, calmness, serenity it's not obvious what communicates this but you just feel it that's the intuition bit. Its not the shape of a graph, the lines on a hand or the colours they wear it's a special awareness. It's certainly nothing to do with scientology.

The Personality Test was devised by Julia Lewis Salmen.

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

Re: My Afternoon With Scientology, Or: I Visited A Cult So You Don’t Have To — Kirk L

Hi Phenomanon,

I thought I saw Ray Kemp say that he devised the OCA, but subsequently disowned it in the 70's because (he said) the CofS had changed it out of all recognition.

 

[cleared cannibal]

Re: My Afternoon With Scientology, Or: I Visited A Cult So You Don’t Have To — Kirk L

They used the same IQ test every time, too. This invalidates it, because the subject remembers the answers from the last time, which gives an advantage on a timed test. So, of COURSE the IQ score would be higher when taking the test again after an auditing action.

This was true with me as I remember taking the test at least 3X and I went up each time about 10 pts. It helps when you remember a lot of the answers especially the math ones where you don't have to figure it out but just put the answer down. That gives one more time to work on the ones you couldn't figure out the last time.

Ther was also some kind of other test where it seemed to me that the faster you did it the better score one got. The only thing I remember about it is one of questions had you put down which was the longer of three lines shown. I think it was some kind of supposed apptitude test.

 

[Claire Swazey]

Re: My Afternoon With Scientology, Or: I Visited A Cult So You Don’t Have To — Kirk L

I think that the personality test is pretty accurate. And I also think it's used for exploitive purposes.

 

[strativarius]

Re: My Afternoon With Scientology, Or: I Visited A Cult So You Don’t Have To — Kirk L

I think that the personality test is pretty accurate. And I also think it's used for exploitive purposes.

Really? Scientology exploiting somebody? Are you sure? As for the first sentence, I think the jury is still out on that one, or have found it not guilty - of being accurate.

 

[Claire Swazey]

Re: My Afternoon With Scientology, Or: I Visited A Cult So You Don’t Have To — Kirk L

Why the sarcasm?

 

[strativarius]

Re: My Afternoon With Scientology, Or: I Visited A Cult So You Don’t Have To — Kirk L

Why the sarcasm?

Well, because that is its only function!

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Re: My Afternoon With Scientology, Or: I Visited A Cult So You Don’t Have To — Kirk L

Hi Phenomanon,

I thought I saw Ray Kemp say that he devised the OCA, but subsequently disowned it in the 70's because (he said) the CofS had changed it out of all recognition.

No matter who devised the OCA Personality Test, it was Hubbard who devised the method of scoring it.

Thus, regardless of what answers someone selected, the result of the Personality Test is always identical:

"You have a bad personality."

​

The PC is then cheerfully informed that Scientology can handle that.

And, if the PC doesn't immediately spring into VVGI's, check-writing mode, they are promptly psychologically "ruined" until the "fear of worsening" and other terrors induce them to cooperate with the Scientologists' plan for their new life.

Personally, I can't imagine anyone wanting to claim any credit for serving up that "free" test to the org's customers. It reminds me of the "free" drinks that Las Vegas cocktail waitresses serve to casino gamblers who are throwing their hard-earned money away in a desperate effort to achieve "Total (financial) Freedom".

The only difference that I can tell is that while gamblers are losing all their money, they are treated to free whizzing sounds, flashing lights and buzzers--while Scientologists are treated to free completion certificates with their name written out in a fancy font.