What happens to some of the long time 'out' activists who go off the grid - can that be considered a product of scno - going type 3, long after the fact, PTSD - or something like that?
:confused2:
Difficult to say unless you have the hard numbers - people go nuts all the time for all sorts of reasons. You would need to compare a reasonably large group of ex'es with a similar group of people who were never in, and see if there is any difference in how frequently and seriously they become ill.
Strictly spoken, there's still a flaw in the statistics (experimental setting), and a huge one - people are prone for certain psychiatric issues, and these might break out or get more severe ... or not. Psychiatric issues (of all sorts) can be triggered, by single incidents or stressful periods - causing burnout and more. (Just as I had anxiety problems "triggered" by periods of stress and insecurity. Some of the anxieties were directly related to the situation ... but others decidedly weren't. I was aware of that, but that didn't really help.
)
Let's look at a really good trigger for schizophrenia: cannabis. Somebody gets schizophrenia because of taking cannabis. Or did they? Wouldn't they have gotten it anyways? In the end, it's a numbers game, and a science of reading and sorting the statistics. A person is considered prone to schizophrenia because the family history indicates that much, the involved genes aren't yet known. This person then takes a lot of cannabis - which effect practically makes the brain to simulate schizophrenia, free floating associations, inducing delusional thinking. After a while, probably after the drug already has been stopped, the person gets schizophrenia, real psychotic breaks and returning episodes (if they won't take meds). BUT, here's the problem: 1) That person would probably have gotten schizophrenia anyways after the first traumatic incident or stressful time in their life, e.g. got sick just a bit earlier because the drug literally "trained" their brain to be schizophrenic. OR 2) that person got more severe schizophrenia because of the drug - together with some other problems, e.g. all making the confusion more deep settled, more difficult to untangle, the paranoia deeper (nothing like a horrortrip to let paranoia dig in
), and prolonging the recovery phase after remission - characterized by feeling depressed, worn out, insecure, mildly confused.
But ofcourse there are many people that are taking lots of cannabis, and never getting schizophrenia.
And vice versa, there are a lot of people who get schizophrenia but have never touched any drug.
Statistics is a bitchy Goddess...
People's experiences in Co$, be it as public or staff or SO, were, ofcourse, quite different, I acknowledge that. For many, it couldn't be called horrific or even "traumatic", and they left for another reason than "I can't bear it anymore". Aside from genuine disinterest or disappointment, it might have been financial issues, or being "declared", - they might have been kicked out for some mysterious reason.
I suppose it's fair to say that any lengthy AND stressful period in this psychotic cult will work as a trigger to worsen one's mental condition.
Whether people get anxious (a state of generalized insecurity and nervosity), or paranoid, or hateful, or distrustful (regarding people), or psychotic, depends on one's experiences and on the personality itself.
Co$ (and the more radical Indies) provides a special environment and pseudo society, a subculture, in which one is emerged (to differing degrees), an essentially sick environment that glorifies and encourages sociopathic and schizophrenic personality traits. The details of this are depending on one's processings and also on their job when being a staff member.
Some are "stuck" on some level or with certain aspects of cult nuttiness, which causes friction. That combination creates a time bomb.
For example, Mockingbird seemed to be particularly "terrorized" by study technology and seemed to be "stuck" with it a lot, apparently because he took it so serious, and (seemingly, I don't know) because the kind of processing, courses he did, afforded considerable amounts of it. Some other people, in comparison, "got over" with their study tech experiences, passing them swiftly and finding no "MUs" or ignoring them at some point to be able to walk out of that room without losing their money and "eternity".
Many didn't take clay demos serious, but some worked days on one clay demo, and I suppose they got somewhat stressed and neurotic over it, especially if that experience was repeated.
Some people fast-forwarded their tapes (I've read what you did there...
), others, feeling more serious and obliged, wouldn't ever have done such a thing, instead they would probably haggle with every word of Hubbard's ramblings, and desperately trying to make sense of it, and experiencing a lot of stress about that, and being stuck in auditing, and getting sec checked, etc etc.
Many lived for years in shabby SO quarters with stacked bunk beds and many people in a room, and experienced all sorts of stress and social problems over these conditions, from an experienced lack of privacy to other problems, while what Paul wrote seemed to indicate that for him this particular aspect was no all too humiliating or extremely stressful experience, as he never "needed much to be lucky", if I may say so.
It is likely that any prolonged (bad) time in Co$ (or amongst particularly nuts Indies) will worsen a case of borderline personality and their characteristic problems, such as it will worsen a case of a personality prone to the schizophrenia/psychosis/paranoia cluster, and it likely will also worsen the problems of a person generally prone to anxiety issues and insecurity; and so on. That doesn't mean that TRs don't occasionally help one with their shyness or that auditing doesn't sometime help one to sort issues in their past, but IN SUM, Co$ usually makes things worse, I hope we can agree on that.
The same stands for a long time of fighting Co$.
It's all about how the experience was perceived, personally.
As we furthermore see, the behavior of some people leaving after decades of intense involvement shows a considerable unfamiliarity with social norms, the symptoms come close to mild cases of Asperger autism. This but is only an appearance and temporal, caused by their estrangement from society and "wog" rules of communication. I've seen some of what I've seen here before, but from people who WERE autistic. Nonetheless the familiarities are remarkable.
So, please... be a bit patient with these cases. If you SEE change happening, and I DO see it, in small steps... can't we wait a bit?
Regarding psychosis: if a person at a certain age only shows mild symptoms that but are slowly increasing, one can conclude that with great likelyhood this person will never have a full-blown "psychotic break" or severe, suddenly set-on (and vanishing) episodes - unless there are extreme triggers present.
We will see whether the extreme disappointment and grudge about the fact that things went quite different than probably envisioned for decades, and that there are different names in the headlines around the final days of the cult than imagined (namely Tony, Mike, Marty, Tory, Karen, Chris, Lawrence Wright, Alex Gibney,...), will work as such a trigger.
I don't expect it,... but when it happens, we should know why.
Just that, then I'm gone again from this thread: I've seen it coming as far as it HAS already happened. :wink2: