Freeloader Debt - I'm not seeing much about this topic lately

[David C Gibbons]

Folks,

How do the 'freeloader debt' policies fit into the overall scheme of Scientology abuses today for you folks?

I know I paid mine with great resentment, as my then-wife continued to want to 'progress up the bridge'. It is one of the things I did in my long involvement with Scientology that continues to anger me. The cute Scientology term 'Out Exchange' just becomes laughable when you consider how hard we worked, how little we got for our efforts, and then to be told we had to pay the Church for the privilege of continuing to be victimized by Scientology.

Prison of belief, indeed....

 

[WildKat]

Good topic. I was just today perusing the Ex-Scientology Kids website, I hadn't read this before. Check out the link below (Astra Woodcraft's story), item #49
Actually, read the whole thing. It's unbelievable.

excerpt:
49. When I left, I was given a bill totaling $89,000 for auditing and courses that I had done while I was in the Sea Org. I have been called approximately 10 times by various staff members including Bob Diskin and Renee Norton pressuring me to send them money to pay this bill. I have been sent about 20 letters on this subject.

http://exscientologykids.com/astras-story/

 

[Claire Swazey]

Folks,

How do the 'freeloader debt' policies fit into the overall scheme of Scientology abuses today for you folks?

I know I paid mine with great resentment, as my then-wife continued to want to 'progress up the bridge'. It is one of the things I did in my long involvement with Scientology that continues to anger me. The cute Scientology term 'Out Exchange' just becomes laughable when you consider how hard we worked, how little we got for our efforts, and then to be told we had to pay the Church for the privilege of continuing to be victimized by Scientology.

Prison of belief, indeed....

I never paid mine. We were staff at a nasty little mission that got disbanded after we left. The owners wanted to move to Xenu City anyway.

I did lots of stuff in Scn later and nobody said boo about it.

But, when they mailed it to us, it was padded. They had plane fare to Flag which we had ourselves paid. And room and board from when I was away at a higher org. But I'd been staying with my Uncle Willis and Aunt Louise (who knew nothing about Scn). I paid for everything else.

They also demanded (and didn't get) our books and meters back. Stuff we paid full retail for and stuff my Dad bought me.

Seriously, fuck those people.

 

[NoName]

The only people I know who paid anything had people in their lives doing their Bridge. No one has been sued when they quit paying as far as I've heard.

 

[David C Gibbons]

Yeah, NoName, that's the thing, we didn't have to pay, if we were willing to walk away. May the gods rot Hubbard's (Wherever he is) and Miscavage's underwear. Extortion, plain and simple.

 

[Northern Shewolf]

Yeah, NoName, that's the thing, we didn't have to pay, if we were willing to walk away. May the gods rot Hubbard's (Wherever he is) and Miscavage's underwear. Extortion, plain and simple.

For rotting the Hub's undies, afraid it's a tad too late...and why not wish Dim Mishisbitch extensive body rot: CANCER! I vote for that since it would be one up on the Hub who only had rotten ideas and teeth.
Just saying.

 

[West Grinsted]

Folks,

How do the 'freeloader debt' policies fit into the overall scheme of Scientology abuses today for you folks?

I know I paid mine with great resentment, as my then-wife continued to want to 'progress up the bridge'. It is one of the things I did in my long involvement with Scientology that continues to anger me. The cute Scientology term 'Out Exchange' just becomes laughable when you consider how hard we worked, how little we got for our efforts, and then to be told we had to pay the Church for the privilege of continuing to be victimized by Scientology.

Prison of belief, indeed....

I ended up working for OSA for 10 years because a free loader's debt!!! 25 hours a week for no pay!

 

[Boojuum]

I paid on mine for years, thinking that one glorious day, I'd be able to afford real Scieno services again. If you want to find out what it's like to be treated like a 3rd class citizen, become a "freeloader". Even working for Scieno companies, they'd say things like, "Since you ARE a Freeloader and have a pending ethics situation...." OMG. About once every six months, some eager beaver would get with me so that we'd "see what we can do to get this handled." These "handlings" were probably the worse thing that happened to me in all of Scientology.

The handlings always began with someone "getting in comm with me" and ending with "what rich people can you hit up to pay your bill."

Once I started reading the anti-cult literature, the COS got no more money and I threatened to sue them if they persisted in pestering.

A "freeloader debt" in my case served to keep me attached the mindset of the COS:

1. I was wrong
2. I was a traitor
3. I was a backslider
4. I couldn't be trusted
5. Using the right LRH tech would allow money to flow into my life
6. I must have a lot of overts that are keeping me off the "Bridge".

The good news was that this lowly mindset forced me to choose between supporting my family or supporting the org.

My family won out and eventually I got totally OUT.

The freeloader debts serve to stick people to an organization that they otherwise would have nothing to do with. The notion of owing money to someone you worked 100 hour weeks for is a bit nutty.

 

[Smurf]

The only people I know who paid anything had people in their lives doing their Bridge. No one has been sued when they quit paying as far as I've heard.

And, they won't be. 'Freeloader's debt" is not legally enforceable & it would be viewed by the courts as a "religious" matter. Most people who pay it are those that want to remain in the culr's good graces.

 

[apple]

I payed mine when I worked for a Class 4 Org. I think it was $1600 for useless courses like SS1 and SS2 and others (and some auditing)that I would never use anywhere. I wanted to become a public/auditor, so that is why I payed it and I also thought it was the right thing to do at that time. Just a naive kid I was.

 

[chipgallo]

I used to get regular statements from Flag The Mecca of Technical Perfection for some ITO training. Eventually they stopped sending them as did the local org. Often times they would be riddled with errors as pointed out above, and the only way to sort it out would be to speak with a Treasury "terminal." Funny that my only "terminal" was supposed to be an Ethics Officer (per the SP Declare) until it came time to extract money. A great way to End Cycle on their control over you is to just throw these things in the trash.

 

[AnonyMary]

Note: On the first page of this thread, at the bottom, readers will find threads in various sections of the forum to visit on the topic of Freeloader issues

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Mary

 

[Charles Carmichael]

After 15 years in the sea org, I was given a $22,000 freeloader debt. After I had been out for 3 or 4 years, I petitioned to have it cancelled, which was disapproved (shocker). I repeated the petition each year for about 3 years then forgot about it for a couple more years. Then someone called me to tell me the debt was cancelled, they were all excited, and asked why I didn't seem excited. I said because I was never going to pay it, but thanks for cancelling it - then I hung up. Yes, I got it in writing.

 

[Dulloldfart]

After 15 years in the sea org, I was given a $22,000 freeloader debt. After I had been out for 3 or 4 years, I petitioned to have it cancelled, which was disapproved (shocker). I repeated the petition each year for about 3 years then forgot about it for a couple more years. Then someone called me to tell me the debt was cancelled, they were all excited, and asked why I didn't seem excited. I said because I was never going to pay it, but thanks for cancelling it - then I hung up. Yes, I got it in writing.

They can always say later that the cancellation was off-policy and it has been reinstated!

I don't know of any specific policy that allows the cancellation of a "legitimate" F/L bill, although it has happened plenty of times. By legitimate, I mean one issued in accordance with existing policy, for properly-completed services, at the rates in vogue at the time.

I know that Hubbard policy is as violated at the highest level in the CofS as the Constitution is in the US.

Paul

 

[Claire Swazey]

Wasn't there some really great line in a post or something that went:

"Scientology- the only place that charges you to work for them".

?

 

[Dean Blair]

I worked for the Sea Org at AOLA for twelve years auditing and C/Sing Ned for OTS. When I routed out I was given a special deal where if I paid $5000 that would cover it all. There was an issue that came out giving one credit for each year of service. The lowest the bill got was $5000. I wish now that I had not paid it but that's water under the bridge (pun not intended).

Many Scientologists have been regged for so much money that they have had to file for bankruptcy in order to resolve the problems arising from creditors demanding payment. When you file bankruptcy all of the debts are forgiven and you can start over. The creditors can no longer legally collect on any debt that was listed in the bankruptcy papers you filed. I think that if anyone is still getting freeloader bills and l also wants to continue on the bridge they could file bankruptcy and the Scientology debt by law has to be forgiven. However, if someone left Scientology and still wanted to continue on the bridge I would say that they have a much more serious problem than a simple freeloader bill. Their problem would be more along the lines of seriously needing Psychiatric help and some strong pharmaceuticals.

 

[Dulloldfart]

Many Scientologists have been regged for so much money that they have had to file for bankruptcy in order to resolve the problems arising from creditors demanding payment. When you file bankruptcy all of the debts are forgiven and you can start over. The creditors can no longer legally collect on any debt that was listed in the bankruptcy papers you filed. I think that if anyone is still getting freeloader bills and l also wants to continue on the bridge they could file bankruptcy and the Scientology debt by law has to be forgiven.

I filed for Chapter 7 in 2000, not because I had become indebted over Scientology though. I added my F/L bill ($175,000 or something) to the list of debts, figuring that either (1) it was legally collectible, in which case it would be discharged [I didn't really believe this], or (2) it wasn't legally collectible, in which case who cares? I had no intention of getting back on lines by this time. At the hearing the bankruptcy trustee (?) asked if the cult would give me any shit over putting the bill on the list of debts, and I said I didn't think so. Certainly no cultie turned up to the hearing (I had notified them of it) to contest the item.

After it all went through with no problem a couple of months later, I sent Treasury FB the required copy of the discharge papers, which stated that their debt no longer existed, and it was an offence to still try and collect it.

I heard nothing for a year. Then I got letters from them along the lines of "I see you filed for bankruptcy, how about making a payment on your bill now?"! I kept one such letter for evidence, just in case I ever needed it.

-----

I had the feeling that if I had tried to get back on lines they would start out by insisting that I "paid my bill" first. Possibly this would have been waived if I went to FSO or something and said, look I've got $100,000 for services and legally this F/L bill doesn't exist, how about it? But I wouldn't have any confidence that such a promise would be kept.

Paul

 

[Claire Swazey]

I filed for Chapter 7 in 2000, not because I had become indebted over Scientology though. I added my F/L bill ($175,000 or something) to the list of debts, figuring that either (1) it was legally collectible, in which case it would be discharged [I didn't really believe this], or (2) it wasn't legally collectible, in which case who cares? I had no intention of getting back on lines by this time. At the hearing the bankruptcy trustee (?) asked if the cult would give me any shit over putting the bill on the list of debts, and I said I didn't think so. Certainly no cultie turned up to the hearing (I had notified them of it) to contest the item.

After it all went through with no problem a couple of months later, I sent Treasury FB the required copy of the discharge papers, which stated that their debt no longer existed, and it was an offence to still try and collect it.

I heard nothing for a year. Then I got letters from them along the lines of "I see you filed for bankruptcy, how about making a payment on your bill now?"! I kept one such letter for evidence, just in case I ever needed it.

-----

I had the feeling that if I had tried to get back on lines they would start out by insisting that I "paid my bill" first. Possibly this would have been waived if I went to FSO or something and said, look I've got $100,000 for services and legally this F/L bill doesn't exist, how about it? But I wouldn't have any confidence that such a promise would be kept.

Paul

Jesus! That's a breach of the bankruptcy stay. Discharge means (as you'd said) debt gone. They can't contact you unless you reaffirmed (which you didn't) or if it was secured and they were executing on the collateral (it's not) they'd be allowed to notify you.

The cult violates a bk stay. Why am I not surprised?

Plus, most staff probably are unfamiliar with bk stays and rules, but still, their i/c should have removed it or somehow flagged it as a do not call.

 

[ThetanExterior]

I was a member of public so obviously didn't get a freeloader bill but I did get Saint Hill UK sending me statements and letters saying there had been a mistake made on my account and I owed them some money.

I ignored these for a while but then I decided to look at their latest statement and compare it to invoices I'd kept. I did find some mistakes but they were in my favour so I wrote to them, pointing out the errors and demanding a refund of excess monies I'd paid.

To my surprise I got a letter back agreeing with my calculations and the money was refunded.

 

[Sassy]

I never paid mine. We were staff at a nasty little mission that got disbanded after we left. The owners wanted to move to Xenu City anyway.

I did lots of stuff in Scn later and nobody said boo about it.

But, when they mailed it to us, it was padded. They had plane fare to Flag which we had ourselves paid. And room and board from when I was away at a higher org. But I'd been staying with my Uncle Willis and Aunt Louise (who knew nothing about Scn). I paid for everything else.

They also demanded (and didn't get) our books and meters back. Stuff we paid full retail for and stuff my Dad bought me.

Seriously, fuck those people.

I'm curious whether anyone has had a collection account placed against their credit for Freeloader Debt? Is it something that is enforceable like that? That would truly give them the power to trash someone's credit. Eventually (after several years) things like credit scores etc would go back up but it can cause major havoc if they did this....I hope I'm not giving anyone any ideas!!