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The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

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purple haze

Patron with Honors
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Lakey

PS - Sweetness, I am interested in attending the Paulette Cooper event. Maybe Purple Haze might attend and the 3 of us, and probably others might want to get together for lunch after the event.

Hiya Sweetness! Nice to see you here. :happydance: You too, Lakey!

I'd love to go to the event in Santa Barbara on May 16th at 3:00, as well as the event in Hollywood on May 17th at 11 am. :thumbsup:

Definitely up for getting together afterwards too! :yes:

Aloha,
Purple Haze :coolwink:
 
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Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Hiya Sweetness! Nice to see you here. :happydance: You too, Lakey!

I'd love to go to the event in Santa Barbara on May 16th at 3:00, as well as the event in Hollywood on May 17th at 11 am. :thumbsup:

Definitely up for getting together afterwards too! :yes:

Aloha,
Purple Haze :coolwink:

Well! All this makes me wish I could be there in the area so I could tag along! Drats.
:melodramatic::duh:

As for my parable puzzle, Lakey, I will get back to that soon.....but first I
would like to ponder your response and that could take a few days.
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Well! All this makes me wish I could be there in the area so I could tag along! Drats.
:melodramatic::duh:

That would really be nice. The 4 of us would have lots of fun! If not this time, there will be other opportunities!

As for my parable puzzle, Lakey, I will get back to that soon.....but first I
would like to ponder your response and that could take a few days.

Maria, I had no idea that pondering my response would require so much time. It will be interesting to see what you come up with, I can't wait!

Lakey.
 
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Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Looker's "When I was a kid" thread

since I cannot yet respond, I've provided a didactic poem. thank you very much as Andy Kaufman would say.

the trick thing about nebulas is
difficult

to quantify
due to various factors
such as vastness of size
density
the silk used in the veil
the veil used in the silk
the trapeze the blue bit

yet a cloud being almost nothing
a hologram

the gate latches to the
inside
when the horse is in the cloud....

but not a star
a leftover of star
all in all we must concede
innocence

nebula being
not anything yet
not yet clear
purpletones

:biggrin:
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Should a Person Let a Former Friend Know That He/She is No Longer a Friend?

I just thought of a new topic which should stimulate some interest. It might even make a good topic for a new thread (or it might not) but I decided to develop the topic on this thread.

In Posting on ESMB over the years, the subject of this topic has occurred several times with me as the recipient of a broken friendship, Sometimes, it is not a broken friendship but more like someone changing from an ally to an adversary.

The scenario goes something like this. You come onto a thread and post. People take sides, some become allies, some are opponents and some are non committal This procedure goes on for a while and one builds up a group of allies, or so he thinks. Usually an ally will PM me and exchange pleasantries and a sort of "mutual admiration society" develops. Things go along for a time with my ally hitting "like" on my posts and aligning with me in various arguments with my opponents.

Out of nowhere it happens! My ally suddenly switches sides. One might figure that we disagreed on only one topic but that is not the case. Once the ally has switched sides, he has decided that I am no good, no longer worthy of his friendship or support. When this has happened to me, which it has a number of times, not one former ally doing a switcheroo has ever notified me what it was that I wrote that caused him/her to change his or her opinion of me.

Well, there was one guy who did notify me but he did it about a year and a half after we started quarreling. We exchanged a stream of Private Messages and reached a truce and we began clicking like on one another's posts for a while but soon we slipped back into an adversarial posture.

SHOULD AN ALLY OF ANOTHER POSTER NOTIFY THAT POSTER IF THE ALLY GETS TICKED OFF WITH HIM/HER AND SWITCHES OVER FROM AN ALLY TO BEING AN OPPONENT?

I believe that the answer should be a resounding YES and yet almost no one does it. BTW, it did not happen to me recently but the idea for this post just popped up out of nowhere in my mind. Maybe I had it percolating for a long period of time. That seems to occur with people on occasion, they are pondering some question but then put it on hold and go one to something else. It seems to me that humans do have an ability to have part of their attention working on an older problem while their main current thrust is doing something else completely independent of the thought that is supposedly on hold. THIS PHENOMENA ON ITS OWN WOULD MAKE GOOD FODDER FOR A SEPARATE THREAD.

So, I have really got two separate topics here:
#1. If an ally changes sides vis a vis a friend and goes from being an ally to being an opponent, should he notify his former friend of the change and why he is making it.
#2. If a person puts a problem aside which he has been wrestling with and works on other things, can some thing still be taking place about the first problem without the person knowing it?

So there are two interesting topics to kick around. My answers on both questions is a big resounding "YES"
Lakey
 

looker

Patron Meritorious
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Sorry Way off topic but just had a flash about CCLA. Ahh Great Memories....Great harmonies and Ethirical lyrics and wonnerful Key changes Well it WAS the 70s Mom. Reminds me of right before I took a plane to CCLA, and the ambiance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8MYsii4DZY
And then the ambiance again when I left

:hysterical:
 
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Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Should a Person Let a Former Friend Know That He/She is No Longer a Friend?

I just thought of a new topic which should stimulate some interest. It might even make a good topic for a new thread (or it might not) but I decided to develop the topic on this thread.

In Posting on ESMB over the years, the subject of this topic has occurred several times with me as the recipient of a broken friendship, Sometimes, it is not a broken friendship but more like someone changing from an ally to an adversary.

The scenario goes something like this. You come onto a thread and post. People take sides, some become allies, some are opponents and some are non committal This procedure goes on for a while and one builds up a group of allies, or so he thinks. Usually an ally will PM me and exchange pleasantries and a sort of "mutual admiration society" develops. Things go along for a time with my ally hitting "like" on my posts and aligning with me in various arguments with my opponents.

Out of nowhere it happens! My ally suddenly switches sides. One might figure that we disagreed on only one topic but that is not the case. Once the ally has switched sides, he has decided that I am no good, no longer worthy of his friendship or support. When this has happened to me, which it has a number of times, not one former ally doing a switcheroo has ever notified me what it was that I wrote that caused him/her to change his or her opinion of me.

Well, there was one guy who did notify me but he did it about a year and a half after we started quarreling. We exchanged a stream of Private Messages and reached a truce and we began clicking like on one another's posts for a while but soon we slipped back into an adversarial posture.

SHOULD AN ALLY OF ANOTHER POSTER NOTIFY THAT POSTER IF THE ALLY GETS TICKED OFF WITH HIM/HER AND SWITCHES OVER FROM AN ALLY TO BEING AN OPPONENT?

I believe that the answer should be a resounding YES and yet almost no one does it. BTW, it did not happen to me recently but the idea for this post just popped up out of nowhere in my mind. Maybe I had it percolating for a long period of time. That seems to occur with people on occasion, they are pondering some question but then put it on hold and go one to something else. It seems to me that humans do have an ability to have part of their attention working on an older problem while their main current thrust is doing something else completely independent of the thought that is supposedly on hold. THIS PHENOMENA ON ITS OWN WOULD MAKE GOOD FODDER FOR A SEPARATE THREAD.

So, I have really got two separate topics here:
#1. If an ally changes sides vis a vis a friend and goes from being an ally to being an opponent, should he notify his former friend of the change and why he is making it.
#2. If a person puts a problem aside which he has been wrestling with and works on other things, can some thing still be taking place about the first problem without the person knowing it?

So there are two interesting topics to kick around. My answers on both questions is a big resounding "YES"
Lakey


I don't think notification is required. A human being has to follow their own council. The decision cannot be based on what others or another wants or thinks but on one's own judgment without consultation to a herd of any other person. I have done that, most likely will again, and feel we each reserve the right NOT to communicate and to do so without permission, forgiveness, understanding or approval. It is ok not to share and to have private thoughts. I don't have to explain whys unless I want to, is my response. It horrifies me to have to. Also, snitching sucks. Further, friendships and alliances are always voluntary.
 
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Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

It is a great ability to be able to have the confidence to be silent and be unconcerned of what others think. To act freely. To not live in an emotional economy of guilt and debt, the over-reliance on rules.

I know many need the order that all this brings. That everything will be explained, make sense, be fair.

These are illusions, better to skip explanations. I assume the last two posts won't make me popular....shucks.
 
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lkwdblds

Crusader
Re: Should a Person Let a Former Friend Know That He/She is No Longer a Friend?

I don't think notification is required. A human being has to follow their own council. The decision cannot be based on what others or another wants or thinks but on one's own judgment without consultation to a herd of any other person. I have done that, most likely will again, and feel we each reserve the right NOT to communicate and to do so without permission, forgiveness, understanding or approval. It is ok not to share and to have private thoughts. I don't have to explain whys unless I want to, is my response. It horrifies me to have to. Also, snitching sucks. Further, friendships and alliances are always voluntary.

Thanks for responding Maria, I want to focus on your second to last sentence, "I don't have to explain whys unless I want to, is my response." I like your response and agree with it but your response immediately brings up another question which is,"Why wouldn't you want to?"

Two people are going along for months as friends and allies and one day your friend clicks that he disagrees with one of your posts. You figure that it is no big deal, maybe you wrote something that the person doesn't agree with but he is still your friend. It turns out not to be so, the switch is permanent! Something you said or did caused a permanent change in the other person's attitude towards you. Certainly, he doesn't HAVE to notify you that he as changed but why would he not WANT to do so?

I don't make friends all that easily but when I do, I consider a friend or an ally as an asset. Maybe, that's why it bothers me so much to lose a friend. When a former friend switches sides, unannounced, and decides to go on the attack against me, I am losing an asset, also, once a friend, I tend to be a loyal and lasting friend of long duration. I put a lot of effort into keeping my friendships going. Losing a friend to me is bad enough but at least if he tells me why he switched sides, I retain some understanding of why he decided to end the friendship. This helps and for me, it helops a lot!!

By letting me know what turned him off, it also gives me the opportunity to review the item which I wrote earlier which offended him. Maybe I will change my mind about it or maybe I won't. but it helps a lot to know what it was one said which caused a huge rift in a friendship. What has the other person got to lose by making this info known to you? If I won't change my mind, at least I receive proper closure. When this happens and I get turned off to a former friend, I always say, "We are going to have to agree to disagree on this point. I respect your opinion but just can't agree with you on this point but we do still agree on many other things, so I hope that this disagreement does not end our friendship."

When a former friend turns against me and becomes an adversary, if I don't know why, then it leaves me in mystery. The bottom line for me is that it makes the world a worse place, more hostile and more unpredictable. Therefore, I believe that the proper termination of a friendship is a significant point. Why not spend a small amount of time and effort to end a friendship amicably? Why not put your cards on the table, face up, and let the other person know why you no longer want to be friends with them. Spending this time and effort can do no harm and can often do some good. That choice is their's alone and they have the right to do what they want.

So two advantages are gained by taking a little extra effort to end a friendship amicably instead of doing it without saying anything. First, the friendship might be salvaged, which is the biggest advantage. Second. the world stays more welcoming and predictable place. A person knows who his friends are, he knows that someone may disagree with him and still be able to be friends with him. The fear of suddenly losing a friend and not knowing why is removed. In short, the world just becomes a more predictable and friendly place so why wouldn't a person want to take a little extra time and effort to help make the world a friendlier and less hostile place?

Lakey
 

Elronius of Marcabia

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

It is a great ability to be able to have the confidence to be silent and be unconcerned of what others think. To act freely. To not live in an emotional economy of guilt and debt , the over-reliance on rules.

I know many need the order that all this brings. That everything will be explained, make sense, be fair.

These are illusions, better to skip explanations. I assume the last two posts won't make me popular....shucks.

Not unpopular in my book Maria:coolwink:

Transactional friendships are not easy friendships and require very long complicated contracts something
like a prenuptual or scheduled sex, there is difference between bonding and binding, one is light as a feather
the other has the feeling of :ball: same subject different note on the scale perhaps a harmonic :yes:
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

It is a great ability to be able to have the confidence to be silent and be unconcerned of what others think. To act freely. To not live in an emotional economy of guilt and debt , the over-reliance on rules.

I know many need the order that all this brings. That everything will be explained, make sense, be fair.

These are illusions, better to skip explanations. I assume the last two posts won't make me popular....shucks.

To the contrary, what little response there has been so far to this subject seems to be in full agreement with you.. I am surprised but I am not going to change. I prefer my method but the fact that my approach is different sort of sheds a lot of light on how the course of my life has been.

Two common comments stated by friends and acquaintances are that I am too trusting and too gullible and those traits have proven to be true. Back in late 2009. I was partnering with this guy whom I had met in Austria that summer. To help him establish credit here in the US, I cosigned with him when he opened his own account at a lumber yard, thereby agreeing to pay his bill if he failed to pay it. He stuck me for a lumber bill of 9,500, which I ended up making good. I did recover part of the damages after I fired him, about $4,000 but he succeeded in taking me for $5,500 right in the heart of the great recession, a time when every dollar really counted.
Lakey.
 
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Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Should a Person Let a Former Friend Know That He/She is No Longer a Friend?

Thanks for responding Maria, I want to focus on your second to last sentence, "I don't have to explain whys unless I want to, is my response." I like your response and agree with it but your response immediately brings up another question which is,"Why wouldn't you want to?"

Two people are going along for months as friends and allies and one day your friend clicks that he disagrees with one of your posts. You figure that it is no big deal, maybe you wrote something that the person doesn't agree with but he is still your friend. It turns out not to be so, the switch is permanent! Something you said or did caused a permanent change in the other person's attitude towards you. Certainly, he doesn't HAVE to notify you that he as changed but why would he not WANT to do so?

I don't make friends all that easily but when I do, I consider a friend or an ally as an asset. Maybe, that's why it bothers me so much to lose a friend. When a former friend switches sides, unannounced, and decides to go on the attack against me, I am losing an asset, also, once a friend, I tend to be a loyal and lasting friend of long duration. I put a lot of effort into keeping my friendships going. Losing a friend to me is bad enough but at least if he tells me why he switched sides, I retain some understanding of why he decided to end the friendship. This helps and for me, it helops a lot!!

By letting me know what turned him off, it also gives me the opportunity to review the item which I wrote earlier which offended him. Maybe I will change my mind about it or maybe I won't. but it helps a lot to know what it was one said which caused a huge rift in a friendship. What has the other person got to lose by making this info known to you? If I won't change my mind, at least I receive proper closure. When this happens and I get turned off to a former friend, I always say, "We are going to have to agree to disagree on this point. I respect your opinion but just can't agree with you on this point but we do still agree on many other things, so I hope that this disagreement does not end our friendship."

When a former friend turns against me and becomes an adversary, if I don't know why, then it leaves me in mystery. The bottom line for me is that it makes the world a worse place, more hostile and more unpredictable. Therefore, I believe that the proper termination of a friendship is a significant point. Why not spend a small amount of time and effort to end a friendship amicably? Why not put your cards on the table, face up, and let the other person know why you no longer want to be friends with them. Spending this time and effort can do no harm and can often do some good. That choice is their's alone and they have the right to do what they want.

So two advantages are gained by taking a little extra effort to end a friendship amicably instead of doing it without saying anything. First, the friendship might be salvaged, which is the biggest advantage. Second. the world stays more welcoming and predictable place. A person knows who his friends are, he knows that someone may disagree with him and still be able to be friends with him. The fear of suddenly losing a friend and not knowing why is removed. In short, the world just becomes a more predictable and friendly place so why wouldn't a person want to take a little extra time and effort to help make the world a friendlier and less hostile place?

Lakey

Lakey, it's the principle of the thing. It's about control. I see your question why wouldn't you want to? As a sort of weird, well yes you have the right to remain silent but the fact you are silent incriminates you. I don't agree with that.

Let me pretend I am person A. I feel that person B has become or is unhealthy for me. Maybe they always were but I did not see it. Or maybe person A and B will never really see eye to eye and the effort to do so ends up causing person A to feel exhausted, sucked dry by the vampire so to speak. So person A can decide to explain their exit stage left (giving B more chances to drain them) or person A can just exit, let the chips fall. So let us consider possibilities. Sometimes people do not take NO for an answer. So Person A if they were to decide to discuss the problem with B, because they never understand each other, will end up mentally masturbating for the many days of 'discussion' with B. Nothing will be resolved since B views the continued communication as a continuation of the link and a way to 'repair' things when A has perhaps realized there is nothing to repair and a good bout of silence would do each other good. Also, B views it as ok to pester and ask a lot of questions, whereas A is fine just letting silence envelop the room and doesn't need or want questions. Not only does A not want to explain to B about the problem between A and B BUT if A was in B's shoes and someone walked away from A, A would be perfectly happy when B did not explain and simply walked away. In other words, A is willing to have that cake and eat it too. It's not a form of cruelty, it's a matter of a different problem solving style.

And to be clear, A is not doing this to be cruel. No. A simply analyzed the situation and decided not to communicate and also that explaining why was not needed, that the details of the analysis could remain private. A does not have to have reason, does not need to give the reason if he knows it, does not have to give it out of false kindness or anything else. The words withhold or overt are completely stupid in this regard - the right to withhold anyone one chooses is sacred!!!! It is the furthest thing from a crime for a person to decide what his or her personal boundaries are. And BOUNDARY is what we are talking about here. The boundary between A and B and how that boundary works and what it is.

Now let us talk about why A does not want to. Sometimes a mom asks kid A, hey want this piece of cake, want more milk? Kid A says NO. Mom pesters. Kid A says no. He doesn't know why or just doesn't want to discuss it. Pestering doesn't change the fact that wanting or not wanting just IS and WHY is not helpful in that mix. Kid A does not stop and pontificate on the milk. Maybe he says, oh, full mom or just tired or whatever, to get her off his back.

In a trite (cookie cutter robot) relationship, everyone has to agree to follow the rules, well if you decide to stop communicating you will tell me why. I would hate to be in such a relationship. The day someone stops wanting to be my friend and walks away, I will respect that. If they choose to tell me why, fine. If not, ok. If I am sad, I will feel the sadness and give the sadness it's dignity and myself time to recover. I think that the boundary between people is extremely important which is why sec-checking, guilt, recrimination, unforgiveness and all those things are so NOT healthy; these are ratlionalizing ways of being, and self-reflective in a destructive way..

I avoid those kinds of connections because I find them unhealthy and resentful. That is just me.

As to whether it is unloving to walk away...Actually it is loving and right and fair. A long long time ago I knew an A person, a friend who was sacrificing themselves for everyone and doing what was right for everyone. Of course this is impossible since as the sheen wore off it was clear that everyone else was not reciprocating but rather using the person and often times the actions of A that were for the group ended up causing more harm. Eventually A learned to say NO and to do what A wanted. Suddenly order prevailed. Others knew where A stood and who A was and not that wishy washing all over the place harmony of before. A could now be relied on to do what was best for A. Ironically I watched as over the years the choices of A FOR A ended up to be vastly more beneficial to everyone around A. I shudder to think how the family and friends of A would have fared if A had not taken this more individualized course of action. Selfishness is a shore story sometimes. It should not be confused with evil or cruelty, which are vastly different. A only has his own point from which to view and A MUST make decisions from that point or drown in the sea of irrelevance.

Person A is only one person and can only do so much because lilfe is limited to a number of years and resources. A does their best and cares about others. At the same time, A must live with A's decisions. A must do what is right for A. I don't question why A would want to do anything. A does what A needs to do. I assume A is a good person, not a sociopath, a sociopath being a rare, rare thing. If A is a good person, then we must let A alone and respect A's decisions. If we show A respect this goes a long way further towards peace between A and B than communication. Communication DOES NOT solve ALL ills. That is unless you consider SILENCE (a form of being able to be there) as a form of communication, which I do. I have no problem with A and A's choice in favor of silence and being there silently. Person A in this theoretical rendering is someone I agree with.

I find mystery a good sensation and a good reality, not a negative and do not think that unpredictability is equal to hostility. The final question is economy. The idea that someone OWES someone else that last bit of peace. No, love and friendships are NOT planned economies. They are involuntary surplusses, free gifts. A very different thing.
 
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lkwdblds

Crusader
Re: Should a Person Let a Former Friend Know That He/She is No Longer a Friend?

Lakey, it's the principle of the thing. It's about control. I see your question why wouldn't you want to? As a sort of weird, well yes you have the right to remain silent but the fact you are silent incriminates you. I don't agree with that.

Let me pretend I am person A. I feel that person B has become or is unhealthy for me. Maybe they always were but I did not see it. Or maybe person A and B will never really see eye to eye and the effort to do so ends up causing person A to feel exhausted, sucked dry by the vampire so to speak. So person A can decide to explain their exit stage left (giving B more chances to drain them) or person A can just to exit, let the chips fall. So let us consider possibilities. Sometimes people do not take NO for an answer. So Person A if they were to decide to discuss the problem with B, because they never understand each other, will end up mentally masturbating for the many days of 'discussion' with B. Nothing will be resolved since B views the continued communication as a continuation of the link and a way to 'repair' things when A has perhaps realized there is nothing to repair and a good bout of silence would do each other good. Also, B views it as ok to pester and ask a lot of questions, whereas A is fine just letting silence envelop the room and doesn't need or want them. Not only does A not want to explain to B about the problem between A and B BUT if A was in B's shoes and someone walked away from A, A would be perfectly happy when B did not explain and simply walked away. In other words, A is willing to have that cake and eat it too. It's not a form of cruelty, it's a matter of a different problem solving style.

And to be clear, A is not doing this to be cruel. No. A simply analyzed the situation and decided not to communicate and also that explaining why was not needed, that the details of the analysis could remain private. A does not have to have reason, does not need to give the reason if he knows it, does not have to give it out of false kindness or anything else.

Now let us talk about why A does not want to. Sometimes a mom asks kid A, hey want this piece of cake, want more milk? Kid A says NO. Mom pesters. Kid A says no. He doesn't know why or just doesn't want to discuss it. Pestering doesn't change the fact that wanting or not wanting just IS and WHY is not helpful in that mix. Kid A does not stop and pontificate on the milk. Maybe he says, oh, full mom or just tired or whatever, to get her off his back.

In a trite relationship, everyone has to agree to follow the rules, well if you decide to stop communicating you will tell me why. I would hate to be in such a relationship. The day someone stops wanting to be my friend and walks away, I will respect that. If they choose to tell me why, fine. If not, ok. If I am sad, I will feel the sadness and give the sadness it's dignity and myself time to recover. I think that the boundary between people is extremely important which is why sec-checking, guilt, recrimination, unforgiveness and all those things are so NOT healthy; these are ratlionalizing ways of being, and self-reflective in a destructive way..

I avoid those kinds of connections because I find them unhealthy and resentful. That is just me.

As to whether it is unloving to walk away...Actually it is loving and right and fair. A long long time ago I knew an A person, a friend who was sacrificing themselves for everyone and doing what was right for everyone. Of course this is impossible since as the sheen wore off it was clear that everyone else was not reciprocating but rather using the person and often times the actions of A that were for the group ended up causing more harm. Eventually A learned to say NO and to do what A wanted. Suddenly order prevailed. Others knew where A stood and who A was and not that wishy washing all over the place harmony of before. A could now be relied on to do what was best for A. Ironically I watched as over the years the choices of A FOR A ended up to be vastly more beneficial to everyone around A. I shudder to think how the family and friends of A would have fared if A had not taken this more individualized course of action. Selfishness is a shore story sometimes. It should not be confused with evil or cruelty, which are vastly different. One only has one own's point from which to view and one MUST make decisions from that point or drown in the sea of irrelevance.

Person A is only one person and can only do so much because lilfe is limited to a number of years and resources. A does their best and cares about others. At the same time, A must live with A's decisions. A must do what is right for A. I don't question why A would want to do anything. A does what A needs to do. I assume A is a good person, not a sociopath, a sociopath being a rare, rare thing. If A is a good person, then we must let A alone and respect A's decisions. If we show A respect this goes a long way further towards peace between A and B than communication. Communication DOES NOT solve ALL ills. That is unless you consider SILENCE (a form of being able to be there) as a form of communication, which I do. I have no problem with Silence and being there silently and I think that person A in this theoretical rendering is someone I agree with.

I find mystery a good sensation and reality, not a negative and do not think that unpredictability is equal to hostility. The final question is economy. The idea that someone OWES someone else that last bit of peace. No, love and friendships are NOT planned economies. They are involuntary surplusses, free gifts. A very different thing.

Maria, in the scenarios which you have created, I agree with you. When it comes to my own case, I take exception. One individual was drawn to the Apollo thread, made many friends here when the thread was ih its hey day and became close friends with several of the regulars. He had his favorite people and is still friends with some of them. I don't think I was among his top favorites but he PMed me and gave me his private email and said some nice things about me and I announced to this person that we would be friends for life.

We were then on very good terms for about 18 to 24 months, I went to his threads and contributed heavily to support him and routinely thanked him for imparting all his knowledge to me and other board members!! We were pretty much on the same side of all major issues. In this online friendship, he knew more than me and it was tacitly understood that he was my mentor.

Maria, I appreciate your response and all the time and thought you put in but I do not believe that your response covers the type of situation I am talking about. One day, almost out of nowhere this person started attacking me and disagreeing with almost everything i said. To this day, I don't really understand why? I picked up a clue or two here and there and have formed an idea of why this happened but I really don't actually know what set him off and turned him against me..

Had he informed me of what I had done which offended him so much, I would have changed my posting to more conform with his guidelines. The way I see this unfortunate occurrence is that it need not have occurred! My only recourse is a defensive posture where I am acting as if this misunderstanding was not my fault when of course part of it or even all of it must be my fault. I would have been willing to correct what I was doing which was irritating to him but he never give me the chance so my current feeling is "to hell with him, I don't need him in my life, he is the one with a problem and not me." That attitude works for me but it takes me away from being my natural self. I have this defensive coat of armor I wear when he comes around and I consider that to be non optimum.

So, in closing, I agree with what you wrote in most situations but I don't feel that it applies in my situations. Thank you again for your reply!
Lakey
 

Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Looker's "When I was a kid" thread

When I was a kid. I wanted to be a painter.

I told my mom there was a school project. I had some allowance saved. We went to Woolworths.

In the crafts aisle I picked up some cheap oil paints, a small canvas, a few cheap brushs. I wanted to paint a horse's head. It was my "masterpiece."

For a background color I used blue since the sky is blue. Every blue was all one mid-tone blue.

For the horse I used brown. I was careful not to let any paint fall on the floor. I had only a few colors. Never heard of poetical Picasso, mythical Klimt or Beckman, expressionist colorist Van Gogh. I painted a realistic horse head.

Father found out my aspirations, confiscated the horse head, paints, brushes.

Once I can retrieve the horse I am sure my name will be up in lights. :hysterical:


The parable of the other day is simply understood.

The parable simply shows that people do have hope, even after something takes away their dream. There is something in the human spirit that continues to try to live even when things 'happen.' The details of the parable are not as important since the details of life are always changing and each person has different stories fitting this template. A way to read it is that the child wants to try to do a thing, and the authority figure, capitalized Father, interferes. Sometimes the mother, or lesser force, is helpless to assist. The Father being dominant will impose his idea of what people should or should not do but his dominance cannot last. It is merely situational. Once the 'child' grows up, later, the horse head painting will be retrieved. At least the hope always remains in life that those things we desire ARE in fact possible to attain.

The horse head nebula is apt to the extent that a nebula is obscure, mysterious, and hard to see into in terms of a big or little picture since it is so dense and huge. Likewise, life is a mystery and never appears to be fair, or clear, as we are going through it. It is obscure and mysterious and its elements cannot be controlled; however at the same time it is beautiful, good, and fair, because it teaches us, and endures each moment with us. It is true that many times folks want to impose control and feel things to be predictable. This is an understandable desire, and Scientology capitalizes on this insecurity.

In truth, the ability to withstand mystery, to be in love simply with life itself without need to know more, without need to dissect, is in my own opinion more advanced than the quest to achieve the ability of being cause, of attaining knowledge since withstanding mystery means one can endure not knowing (can endure life itself) and thus find meaning in simply being; and the quest to simply be in and with reality is an embrace. In contrast, the need to be cause over anything bespeaks deep insecurity and inability to BE THERE; the quest to be cause is a quest based on a negative premise (of assault not embrace). Bad starting point if you will.

The event of child and Father is beautiful, can be left alone, is the nebula mysteriously unfolding.
 
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Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Should a Person Let a Former Friend Know That He/She is No Longer a Friend?

Maria, in the scenarios which you have created, I agree with you. When it comes to my own case, I take exception. One individual was drawn to the Apollo thread, made many friends here when the thread was ih its hey day and became close friends with several of the regulars. He had his favorite people and is still friends with some of them. I don't think I was among his top favorites but he PMed me and gave me his private email and said some nice things about me and I announced to this person that we would be friends for life.

We were then on very good terms for about 18 to 24 months, I went to his threads and contributed heavily to support him and routinely thanked him for imparting all his knowledge to me and other board members!! We were pretty much on the same side of all major issues. In this online friendship, he knew more than me and it was tacitly understood that he was my mentor.

Maria, I appreciate your response and all the time and thought you put in but I do not believe that your response covers the type of situation I am talking about. One day, almost out of nowhere this person started attacking me and disagreeing with almost everything i said. To this day, I don't really understand why? I picked up a clue or two here and there and have formed an idea of why this happened but I really don't actually know what set him off and turned him against me..

Had he informed me of what I had done which offended him so much, I would have changed my posting to more conform with his guidelines. The way I see this unfortunate occurrence is that it need not have occurred! My only recourse is a defensive posture where I am acting as if this misunderstanding was not my fault when of course part of it or even all of it must be my fault. I would have been willing to correct what I was doing which was irritating to him but he never give me the chance so my current feeling is "to hell with him, I don't need him in my life, he is the one with a problem and not me." That attitude works for me but it takes me away from being my natural self. I have this defensive coat of armor I wear when he comes around and I consider that to be non optimum.

So, in closing, I agree with what you wrote in most situations but I don't feel that it applies in my situations. Thank you again for your reply!
Lakey


I think that what I wrote applies in every case, without exception. That is what I was trying to say....I know you want to see your situation as an exception. But I don't see how it is.

Also, I don't believe in conforming so i don't understand why you or anyone would conform to 'guidelines'.

Humans need to get off the teet. That is my opinion. (I am not referring to you, just saying, in general.)
 

Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

One last thing, based on my previous couple of posts.
I place Scientology and related self-help techniques on the side of forces that insecure and unsteady and must assault and dissect life and pursue the quest of knowledge and of being cause. It is pitiful but there you have it.....
 

Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I will compromise to this extent: that I acknowledge and recognize that each being handles their affairs in their OWN way. So what you have said Lakey is your way and I respect that you should do what you are comfortable doing. I just don't see why others have to conform to anyone else's guidelines.
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Re: Should a Person Let a Former Friend Know That He/She is No Longer a Friend?

I think that what I wrote applies in every case, without exception. That is what I was trying to say....I know you want to see your situation as an exception. But I don't see how it is.

Also, I don't believe in conforming so i don't understand why you or anyone would conform to 'guidelines'.

Humans need to get off the teet. That is my opinion. (I am not referring to you, just saying, in general.)

Why did I know that you would say that it applies to every case without exception? That is what I expected you to say and you said it. I guess that we just disagree on this topic for certain types of applications. You are relating the topic to the larger scenario of human life in general. You don't care to get involved in details while my topic is detail driven. The whole topic covers the details of how to react if someone switches from friend to adversary in a manner which I don't understand.

I like your point that details are usually temporal, just lasting for a short time and then they change. Still, in a workplace environment, for example, where a person earns his livelihood and especially if the person is a husband with a wife and children to support, if the person's boss switched from being a friend to an adversary, most people would need to address that problem with some sort of action. You can't really just ignore your boss, nor allow him to become critical of you without responding, because if you do, you will soon be needing a new job, so you have to come to some sort of meeting of the minds. That is more the way I am looking at the topic I brought up, i.e., something important to me happened in my life and I need to take action or I will lose my job.

IMO you are looking at a little different scenario, like an internet chat room website. Someone says he's your friend, later turns against you, no big deal just forget about it, why get mired down in the details? Just keep doing your own thing, simply move on and find someone else who you want to be friends with.

I'm just not hard wired to behave that way. If someone befriends me and reveals a lot of interesting data to me, I make a concerted effort to be a true friend of long duration. When such an effort doesn't work out for me though I had the best of intention, there is always a little voice whispering in my ear, "Why did this unfortunate situation come into existence.? Where did I go wrong?, What could I have done differently;?"

As I currently see your point of view, any person would be better off if they did not ask themselves questions like those and they would be happier if they just moved on without looking back."

Lakey.
P.S. Maria, I have no reservations about your post just after the one I am answering. You say to do what works for me and in our example under discussion, that is exactly what I am going to do.
 

Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Should a Person Let a Former Friend Know That He/She is No Longer a Friend?

Why did I know that you would say that it applies to every case without exception? That is what I expected you to say and you said it. I guess that we just disagree on this topic for certain types of applications. You are relating the topic to the larger scenario of human life in general. You don't care to get involved in details while my topic is detail driven. The whole topic covers the details of how to react if someone switches from friend to adversary in a manner which I don't understand.

I like your point that details are usually temporal, just lasting for a short time and then they change. Still, in a workplace environment, for example, where a person earns his livelihood and especially if the person is a husband with a wife and children to support, if the person's boss switched from being a friend to an adversary, most people would need to address that problem with some sort of action. You can't really just ignore your boss, nor allow him to become critical of you without responding, because if you do, you will soon be needing a new job, so you have to come to some sort of meeting of the minds. That is more the way I am looking at the topic I brought up, i.e., something important to me happened in my life and I need to take action or I will lose my job.

IMO you are looking at a little different scenario, like an internet chat room website. Someone says he's your friend, later turns against you, no big deal just forget about it, why get mired down in the details? Just keep doing your own thing, simply move on and find someone else who you want to be friends with.

I'm just not hard wired to behave that way. If someone befriends me and reveals a lot of interesting data to me, I make a concerted effort to be a true friend of long duration. When such an effort doesn't work out for me though I had the best of intention, there is always a little voice whispering in my ear, "Why did this unfortunate situation come into existence.? Where did I go wrong?, What could I have done differently;?"

As I currently see your point of view, any person would be better off if they did not ask themselves questions like those and they would be happier if they just moved on without looking back."

Lakey.
P.S. Maria, I have no reservations about your post just after the one I am answering. You say to do what works for me and in our example under discussion, that is exactly what I am going to do.

I never conflated asking oneself questions (like those) and moving on without looking back with ANYTHING I said. To me these two points I just bolded are completely separate issues from ANYTHING I posted today. Of course in the solipsism of one's OWN mind one asks oneself questions. The issue was person A answering to person B. Never person A answering to person A. I never discussed happiness or happiness about just moving on and not looking back. I never mentioned happiness having anything to do with what I talked about and I never mentioned not looking back (A self reflecting on A).

I actually ended an intimate relationship decades ago for EXACTLY that reason, because the other person felt it was ok to intrude on me in ways that I felt uncomfortable with. So actually, I believe that it leads to better relations that each person sees and respects the boundaries of the other - as these are laid out from the get go - regardless of the type of relationship! lol. Analog OR virtual, regardless of work, friend, or any other relation type.

PS I still have made no comments on A looking back on A, on happiness, on moving on, or any of that. Those topics for me are unrelated, cannot be conflated, either with each other or with anything I said; they were not things I was commenting on.
 
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