The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[Cat's Squirrel]

Re: Another - our experiences differed.

Opel was distributed in the US by Buick. The cars were just pieces of shit. It's a shame because both Ford and GM of Europe have produced some pretty good cars. Nothing in the class of the home grown Germans, of course, but not bad.

The Opel Senator, which came out in the late 1970s / early 80s, and the Monza, which was a two door couple version of the Senator, were very highly regarded in the UK (apart from, it has to be said, the Monza GSE's digital dash panel which didn't suit everyone).

There was also a company calle Bitter in Germany which took Senators and replaced the bodies with its own coachbuilt ones; one model (the SC coupe) was based closely on the Ferrari 400. They're very rare now, though I once saw a four door Bitter saloon (Americans would say "sedan") in a bank car park and a beautiful car it was too.

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: Another - our experiences differed.

Different roads and driving conditions between the US and northern Germany, perhaps? Also, Opel would have been competing with domestic GM makes such as Buick, Chevrolet and Pontiac so could easily be seen as superfluous to that market.

GM filed bankruptcy in 2009. The Obama administration promised to help GM with federal government financial backing because "GM was too big to fail." Ditto for Chrysler. Part of GM's plan to emerge from bankruptcy had to be to agree to eliminate unnecessary costs and thus streamline their operations. A few years earlier, GM had already taken a major step in that direction by eliminating the popular Oldsmobile brand from their line up. In 2009, GM was forced to do more cutting to qualify for federal loan money. Their Saturn line had to go for sure plus either Buick or Pontiac had to go. After much soul searching they decided to keep Buick and eliminate Pontiac and Saturn. Part of the reason was that the Pontiac division was promoting high performance cars while Buick was promoting family cars. Opel. one of GM's major European brands was more family car oriented than high performance car oriented. That fact was one of the big reasons why Pontiac was cut and not Buick. The Buick brand could bring in models from Opel in Europe and re badge them as Buicks and that is exactly what they are doing. These Opels brought over here and re badged as Buicks are just beautiful cars, very highly rated by auto publications and Consumer Reports magazine.

Had GM axed Buick and kept Pontiac, they could not have brought Opels to the states and re badged them as Pontiacs because Opals were not sporty enough for Pontiac owners and as you point out, Pontiacs would not have sold well in Europe, especially with their high fuel prices. Thus, GM's decisions were correct. Axe Pontiac, keep Buick and by keeping Buick, help out the Opel division in Germany. There is no way GM could have set up selling Opels here in the US because they were forced to pare down their US line up but instead of selling Opels here as Opels, GM wisely decided to re badge them as Buicks, a brilliant decision which has helped Buick, Opel and GM!
Lakey

 

[SPsince83]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

What is an American "fetish" for the orignal version of songs?

Here are some definitions of the word fetish. I guess the second definition plus the synonyms support your use of the word so no problem there.

fet·ish- noun
an inanimate object worshiped for its supposed magical powers or because it is considered to be inhabited by a spirit.
synonyms: juju, talisman, charm, amulet; More
a course of action to which one has an excessive and irrational commitment.
"he had a fetish for writing more opinions each year than any other justice"
a form of sexual desire in which gratification is linked to an abnormal degree to a particular object, item of clothing, part of the body, etc.
"Victorian men developed fetishes focusing on feet, shoes, and boots"
synonyms: fixation, obsession, compulsion, mania; More



Why do you single out Americans for having a fetish for the original version of songs? British, Germans, French, Italians, Israeli's, Russians, Japanese, Chines, etc. all share this trait.

I agree with your comments in general about songs. The only point where we disagree is in comparing song's from different era's of music and suggesting that one version can be better than the other. To me, you can make such a comparison but it is very much like comparing apples to oranges. That's all I'm saying.

Let's say that I declare that orange juice from Florida is the best in the world. You come in and say that apple juice from Washington is a superior beverage. Then you comment, "What is with these Americans having a fetish for fruit drinks of Florida. Fruit drinks are drunk for the moment. I say drink fruit juice, lots of fruit juice, then drink more.

I have two disagreements, one small and one bigger. The small one is your inaccurate portrayal of American's holding onto to original versions of music when every culture has the tendency to do that. The bigger one is what I call "comparing apples to oranges". To come to your conclusions, which are correct, you had to compare apples to oranges. You used that step and thus reached a correct conclusion, I will concede that point to you. My objection is that I prefer to compare apples to apples when making comparisons. Maybe you don't see things that same way. No big deal, I'm not saying that you are wrong. We can agree to disagree on that point and still be in agreement with the rest of your post.

I know, beware of too much thinking, I'm being too long winded, too anal. Try and explain what I just did in fewer words, it's a tough concept to express. I made it as concise as I could.
Lakey

My judgement of music is not era dependent. I like most of the Western music of the last 1000 years and judge it against its own time and music theory in general. I can listen to Gregorian Chant as well as Jerry Lee Lewis or (dare I say it?) Justin Timberlake (boy came a long way to legitimacy IMHO).

I can't comment on other culture's need for original recordings. I'm not talking about cultural traditions such as songs from the vernacular that last decades or centuries. I'm talking mostly about pop fluff. There is a giant strain in American culture that is always looking for the latest thing. If other cultures have this as well, it's because they were seduced by the American hegemony. This is both good and bad. The good is it makes room for new creativity. The bad is that the history gets codified before it has a chance to develop. A song sheet of lines and dots and squiggles and words can be treated in MANY ways. The way Leslie Gore sang it, or Dusty Springfield or Diana Ross or whatever isn't set in stone. For example, I can't STAND Phil Collins. Just a matter of taste, of course, as he is a consummate pro musician, but still, listening to him makes my hair stand on end. But he did a live version of "Can't Hurry Love" that absolutely kicks ass. No, it's not the Supremes and the Motown All Star Band. But it was pretty damn good.

The essence of jazz is the reinterpretation of popular tunes. Jo Stafford was good, but wouldn't you like to hear what Charlie Parker did with her tunes? Hell, she didn't write them anyway. Neither did Elvis. Or Sinatra. Or Crosby. Jascha Heifetz wrote pop tunes under a pseudonym and there is NO WAY you could mistake him for a hack musician. But he didn't play his own tunes. He left that to a bandleader and singer to interpret the dots and lines and squiggles on their own.

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

Re: Another - our experiences differed.

GM filed bankruptcy in 2009. The Obama administration promised to help GM federal government financial backing because "GM was too big to fail." Ditto for Chrysler. Part of GM's plan to emerge from bankruptcy had to be to agree to eliminate unnecessary costs and thus streamline their operations. A few years earlier, GM had already taken a major step in that direction by eliminating the popular Oldsmobile brand from their line up. In 2009, GM was forced to do more cutting to qualify for federal loan money. Their Saturn line had to go for sure plus either Buick or Pontiac had to go. After much soul searching they decided to keep Buick and eliminate Pontiac and Saturn. Part of the reason was that the Pontiac division was promoting high performance cars while Buick was promoting family cars. Opel. one of GM's major European brands was more family car oriented than high performance car oriented. That fact was one of the big reasons why Pontiac was cut and not Buick. The Buick brand could bring in models from Opel in Europe and re badge them as Buicks and that is exactly what they are doing. These Opels brought over hear and re badged as Buicks are just beautiful cars, very highly rated by auto publications and Consumer Reports magazine.

Had GM axed Buick and kept Pontiac, they could not have brought Opels to the states and re badged them as Pontiacs because Opals were not sporty enough for Pontiac owners and as you point out, Pontiacs would not have sold well in Europe, especially with their high fuel prices. Thus, GM's decisions were correct. Axe Pontiac, keep Buick and by keeping Buick, help out the Opel division in Germany. There is no way GM can set up selling Opels here in the US because they were forced to pare down their US line up but instead of selling Opels here as Opels, GM wisely decided to re badge them as Buicks, a brilliant decision which has helped Buick, Opel and GM!
Lakey

Thanks for the info Lakey. I've also noticed more Chevrolets in the UK recently, especially the 4x4s and the family models, so GM's decision to diversify into different markets seems to have been one which has gone both ways across the Atlantic.

 

[Gizmo]

Re: Another - our experiences differed.

In 1970 I had a green 67 VW Squareback. My friend had a brand new Kadett Wagon. Guess who's car lasted longer?

OK, with the Bug & the KG I left the door open. I was never a fan of the Squareback or the Fastback as starting with them VW went waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay downhill for decades.

But, every now & again I do see a bug or a Squareback , but, not seen a Kadett Wagon in decades.

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

This thread is like a perfect convention of adults with ADD. Nothing insulting about that at all since I am one of those. It is just all over the place. LOL

View attachment 10531

This was my first car. A 1966 Malibu Chevelle. Same color but with a black vinyl top. Many memories were made in that car. Lots of them while driving and a few in the backseat.

I was going to ask, were any babies made in that car? Drive in movies, what a great era that was!! It was fun as a kid, going with the family but as a teenager and a young adult, who could ask for more fun. For a male, if he asked a date to go to a drive in and she said yes, then you pretty much knew that you were going to have a good time. For a female, I would guess that the thought process was similar. If she accepted going to a drive in, both parties knew pretty much what was going to happen.

There was a major difference however in my era. When I was growing up (covered wagon days?), couples would seldom, if ever, go all the way. There was first base, second base and third base. Going for the home run was not done in the circles I moved in. Around 1964, that taboo began to break down, at least on the East and West Coasts. Probably in the flyover states it lasted much longer. BTW, that 1966 Chevelle Malibu was a fantastic car, the black vinyl top was a nice touch.

Here are some pictures of them. The design looks fantastic, even 51 years later.
https://www.google.com/search?q=196...velle-Malibu-on-Forgeline-SO3P-Wheels;814;547

It is really amazing, the car in the picture looks modern and better looking than over 90% of the cars on the road today. They rode great and had lots of power. The main areas of progress since then are in safety, handling, fuel economy and of course of all the sophisticated electronics of today's cars.. The fun quotient of that '66 Malibu may be as migh or higher than that of modern day cars.
Lakey

 

[SPsince83]

Re: Another - our experiences differed.

OK, with the Bug & the KG I left the door open. I was never a fan of the Squareback or the Fastback as starting with them VW went waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay downhill for decades.

But, every now & again I do see a bug or a Squareback , but, not seen a Kadett Wagon in decades.

No. Type III good. Type IV was the bad one. 411 and 412s and post 72 Type II until the 2 liter squareport. Also the Porsche 914, a SCREAMING POS that was marketed in Europe as an Audi. Should have been a VW in the US cuz between it and the 924 Porsche took a hit in prestige too. All except the 924 had the horrible Type IV VW motor. The 924 was the first water cooled Porsche. POS. Until they redid it and turned it into the 944 which was a winner.

 

[Gizmo]

Re: Another - our experiences differed.

.........................Opels.........................
Lakey

Opel has been laughed off the US market once before when they were sold by Buick.

Remains to be seen if this return as a re-badge was a "brilliant" move or yet another in the string of GM losers.

Pontiac did bring out some awful looking GM models.

 

[Gizmo]

Re: Another - our experiences differed.

No. Type III good. Type IV was the bad one. 411 and 412s and post 72 Type II until the 2 liter squareport. Also the Porsche 914, a SCREAMING POS that was marketed in Europe as an Audi. Should have been a VW in the US cuz between it and the 924 Porsche took a hit in prestige too.

Oh, the "Porsche" that had to have the motor dropped to reachall all the spark plugs ?

Oh, that "Porsche" that was built in a VW Factory ?

The one The Porsche Club of America would not accept for membership ?

That didn't really ever count as a Porsche ! But, they are STILL raced all over the country in SCCA events.

Once the Squareback & Fastback hit I must confess, I lost track of what was happening with VWs so Type III or Type IV are greek to me.

I did build a 57 VW bug for Hillclimbs. It was just complete insane for the day & would take pages to get into acid dipped body & frame a la drag racer style. Lexan windows. Fiberglass hood, deck lid, fenders.

How insane ? The only piece of the roll bar that wasn't exhaust tubing was a few inches of regular roll cage material for a port the thickness inspection was done.
Was a super fun machine !

 

[SPsince83]

Re: Another - our experiences differed.

No. Type III good. Type IV was the bad one. 411 and 412s and post 72 Type II until the 2 liter squareport. Also the Porsche 914, a SCREAMING POS that was marketed in Europe as an Audi. Should have been a VW in the US cuz between it and the 924 Porsche took a hit in prestige too. All except the 924 had the horrible Type IV VW motor. The 924 was the first water cooled Porsche. POS. Until they redid it and turned it into the 944 which was a winner.

I have had as daily drivers 3 bugs, 2 squarebacks, 4 busses, 1 Ghia, 1 Golf, 3 Rabbits, a Jetta, a Scirocco, a Vanagon and a Quantum. Only the 72 bus with a Type IV motor gave me ANY kind of real grief.

 

[CO2]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

[video]https://youtu.be/NjXwkd1MorY[/video]

[video]https://youtu.be/lhKuAY8h5Fw[/video]

 

[SPsince83]

Re: Another - our experiences differed.

Oh, the "Porsche" that had to have the motor dropped to reachall all the spark plugs ?

Oh, that "Porsche" that was built in a VW Factory ?

The one The Porsche Club of America would not accept for membership ?

That didn't really ever count as a Porsche ! But, they are STILL raced all over the country in SCCA events.

Once the Squareback & Fastback hit I must confess, I lost track of what was happening with VWs so Type III or Type IV are greek to me.

I did build a 57 VW bug for Hillclimbs. It was just complete insane for the day & would take pages to get into acid dipped body & frame a la drag racer style. Lexan windows. Fiberglass hood, deck lid, fenders.

How insane ? The only piece of the roll bar that wasn't exhaust tubing was a few inches of regular roll cage material for a port the thickness inspection was done.
Was a super fun machine !

The Type III motor was also known as the pancake. It was the first VW to ditch the doghouse fan. They put the motor in Squarebacks, Notchbacks and Fastbacks, and there was a VERY cool coach built Type III Ghia which is easily the most beautiful car VW ever made. The Type IV, which also had the block level fan of the type III never had the reliability although it could make good power. Better than the Type III or Type I without modification. They had a SERIOUS and insurmountable problem of overheating the number 3 cylinder. There was just no fix for it. Inherent design flaw. The type III engine benefitted greatly from Formula V treatments and hot rodded up pretty good. I've seen a Squareback run under 11.5 with an 1835cc Type III motor.

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: Another - our experiences differed.

Thanks for the info Lakey. I've also noticed more Chevrolets in the UK recently, especially the 4x4s and the family models, so GM's decision to diversify into different markets seems to have been one which has gone both ways across the Atlantic.

Yes, I agree with your conclusions. Still, I miss the Oldsmobile and Pontiac from GM, the Plymouth and De Soto from Chrysler and the Mercury from Ford. Then there are all the independent makers in the USA who are now out of business. Great brands with large followings at one time, Studebaker, Packard, Hudson, Nash, Rambler, Willys, et al.

Here is another tidbit which probably few of you know about. Spurred on by the success of the VW Beetle, starting in 1953, many of the European brands started franchising their cars in the US. First to come was the MG sports car and a tiny trickle of Rolls Royces and Bentleys. Soon they were joined by the Jaguar, Austin Healy. Sunbeam the the Triumph. The rest of the European makers entered the US market in 1959. At that time, US makes were like barges, long, chrome plated, finned behemoths. Only two brands, the AMC Rambler and the Studebaker Lark were small and got good gas mileage.

In 1959, France sent in their VW Beetle fighter, the Renault Dauphine plus cars from Peugeot, Citroen, Simca and the Pahnard Dyna, Germany gave us 'Auto Union' which morphed into the Audi brand now owned by VW, BMW, Mercedes, Porche and some relatively unknown brands such as Borgward. Goliath and DKW. DKW stood for 'Das Kleine Wunder' (The little Wonder) in German. Actually I believe that DKW was part of Auto Union. I remember well testing the Borgward Isabella model. It was the only car other than Mercedes which was not an econobox at the time. The Goliath was a really small econobox promising 50 mpg while having a top speed of 80 mph. The Goliath failed here after only one year, 1959. The Borgward should have sold because it was larger than the others and much more luxurious. If failed in about 2 years, primarily just due to lack of funding of its parent company. I just read in a recent auto magazine that Borgward is opening again in Germany under new management related to the original management , and that they are well financed and will be selling cars again for the first time in over 60 years!!

Of course we had the Italians, Fiat, Alfa Romeo and their ultra expense sports models such as Ferrara and the Swedes contributed the Volvo and the Saab. All these brands went on sale in the USA in 1959. BTW, no Japanese or Korean vehicles were sold here in that first boom period of foreign brands. It seems to me, and I could be wrong, but Japanese cars did not show up until 1963 or 1964, at least of the west coast. Toyota promo says they opened a dealership in 1957 but I never saw it. Basically just two brands arrived at first, Toyota and Nissan (who then sold its cars under the name, Datsun). I bought a 1966 Datsun 2000, a beautiful little 2 seat sports convertible which looked very similar to a typical British sports car. That Datsun 2000 went out the door for $2,600 a very low price, even at that time. It was about $14,000 in today's money and I was making a good salary then working at Douglas in Culver City.
Lakey

 

[Gizmo]

Going all the way is NORMAL, really SEX IS NORMAL !

.... Drive in movies, what a great era that was!! It was fun as a kid, going with the family but as a teenager and a young adult, who could ask for more fun. For a male, if he asked a date to go to a drive in and she said yes, then you pretty much knew that you were going to have a good time. For a female, I would guess that the thought process was similar. If she accepted going to a drive in, both parties knew pretty much what was going to happen.

There was a major difference however in my era. When I was growing up (covered wagon days?), couples would seldom, if ever, go all the way. There was first base, second base and third base. Going for the home run was not done in the circles I moved in. Around 1964, that taboo began to break down, at least on the East and West Coasts. Probably in the flyover states it lasted much longer. BTW, that 1966 Chevelle Malibu was a fantastic car, the black vinyl top was a nice touch.
.....
Lakey

Wasn't '64 getting into the mid 20's of age ?

Oh Lord !

In the 50's ( teen years ) at Drive In's & parking places we were getting - as it is called - going all the way all the time.

Even double dating at the Drive In it was very common for both seats to get a rockin' - going to the Drive In meant getting laid, period !

If you were growing up then & LOTS of couples REGULARLY went all the way.

Going for the " home run " was normal sexual behavior in ALL the circles except the geeks.

The football players, the Frat boys, the good dancers, smooth talkers, hot rodders, bikers, tough guys - hell even the debate team - were getting laid.

Circa say 54 on to now.

Sex is normal. Sex is normal. Sex is normal.

Health sexual desires are expected among boys & girls.

When humans hit puberty & the hormones turn on then so do the humans.

Seems the girls in every circle were always as willing to get it on just as much as the guys.

Over the years, after getting married, I noticed my single friends still maintaining their normal sexual desires as they aged.

Please, let's not act like good healthy sex from willing partners isn't always there for the asking !

 

[Gizmo]

Re: Another - our experiences differed.

The Type III motor was also known as the pancake. It was the first VW to ditch the doghouse fan. They put the motor in Squarebacks, Notchbacks and Fastbacks, and there was a VERY cool coach built Type III Ghia which is easily the most beautiful car VW ever made. The Type IV, which also had the block level fan of the type III never had the reliability although it could make good power. Better than the Type III or Type I without modification. They had a SERIOUS and insurmountable problem of overheating the number 3 cylinder. There was just no fix for it. Inherent design flaw. The type III engine benefitted greatly from Formula V treatments and hot rodded up pretty good. I've seen a Squareback run under 11.5 with an 1835cc Type III motor.

Thanks for all the useful info. ( I leave it to others to do their view of automotive history - which I always skip - LOL !)

Type III Ghia, never seen ! I'll go look !

Added : Surely I found the wrong thing ! What I found looked like a copy of a Corvair !

OK, I LIKED Corvairs, but, they were butt ugly !

Cars, to me, are like boats - anybody can build a bad one but there is no excuse for an ugly one !

 

[SPsince83]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

What you and others on your side of the pond may not realise is
that a VW group car is the best in the world. Tested on Top Gear
which has a very irreverent humorous take on car tests. This clip
misses the section proving the Yeti faster than a Ferrari. Sadly Top
Gear has been discontinued after Jeremy punched a producer.
Rumours that the team will all be together again on Netflix.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7kEJ-pHkWA

I must admit to a fondness for Jerson's opinions and sense of humor.

 

[Gizmo]

Re: Another - our experiences differed.

No. Type III good. Type IV was the bad one. 411 and 412s and post 72 Type II until the 2 liter squareport. Also the Porsche 914, a SCREAMING POS that was marketed in Europe as an Audi. Should have been a VW in the US cuz between it and the 924 Porsche took a hit in prestige too. All except the 924 had the horrible Type IV VW motor. The 924 was the first water cooled Porsche. POS. Until they redid it and turned it into the 944 which was a winner.

My friend who once had a 924 used to say " Well, it's a pretty thing "!

Another friend who got tired of XKE's multitude of problems put a 350 Chevy with automatic in it.

He solved the chronic XKE overheating problem, PIA to tune, & the cranky odd gear box all at once. I still wonder why I didn't buy it from him once he got it sorted out ! ( Years earlier I had an XKE coupe & felt it qualified as the worst car I'd ever owned - I was glad to get rid of it !)

Never owned a Corvette I thought much of. The new ones look pretty good, but, I think I'd rather have a Viper.

Got to race a Birdcage Maserati & fell in love with it - way out of price range at the time ( still is -LOL )
For race cars - I didn't own - the 427 Cobra was a dream car. It would power drift like nothing else I ever drove.
Another car I still couldn't afford but always loved to race for some one else.

These days the only really somewhat affordable race car to campaign is good old Formula V !
Still takes at least a grand a weekend to do it on the cheap.

Oh, goodness, then we get into the cars almost bought, didn't, & still cry about it !

Did I mention my fire engine red goat convertible ? Stick, no radio, heater delete, no PS, no PB ?
Or my Plymouth 2 dr post sedan with a stage 3 Hemi ?

Seems I couldn't make up my mind between road racing, hill climbs, circle track, or drag racing - so I tried it all.


My friend who was my engine builder on my '57 Bug still thinks I'm a traitor for leaving VWs & buying a Honda for a street driver.

 

[strativarius]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

In the 50's and early 60's there was a huge cultural revolution over here, and grey, war-ravaged England began importing stuff from the USA like Rock 'n' Roll, Wimpy Bars and Sgt. Bilko (Coca-Cola had been with us since the turn of the century).

One thing that never took off though was drive-in movies. No doubt someone somewhere gave it a try but it never caught on. Maybe that's because there's far more room in a big old gas-guzzling yank-tank for getting yer end away, and although it is possible in a relatively small brit car of that era, (as the author can testify) it was decidedly uncomfortable!

 

[SPsince83]

Re: Another - our experiences differed.

My friend who once had a 924 used to say " Well, it's a pretty thing "!

Another friend who got tired of XKE's multitude of problems put a 350 Chevy with automatic in it.

He solved the chronic XKE overheating problem, PIA to tune, & the cranky odd gear box all at once. I still wonder why I didn't buy it from him once he got it sorted out ! ( Years earlier I had an XKE coupe & felt it qualified as the worst car I'd ever owned - I was glad to get rid of it !)

Never owned a Corvette I thought much of. The new ones look pretty good, but, I think I'd rather have a Viper.

Got to race a Birdcage Maserati & fell in love with it - way out of price range at the time ( still is -LOL )
For race cars - I didn't own - the 427 Cobra was a dream car. It would power drift like nothing else I ever drove.
Another car I still couldn't afford but always loved to race for some one else.

These days the only really somewhat affordable race car to campaign is good old Formula V !
Still takes at least a grand a weekend to do it on the cheap.

Oh, goodness, then we get into the cars almost bought, didn't, & still cry about it !

Did I mention my fire engine red goat convertible ? Stick, no radio, heater delete, no PS, no PB ?
Or my Plymouth 2 dr post sedan with a stage 3 Hemi ?

Seems I couldn't make up my mind between road racing, hill climbs, circle track, or drag racing - so I tried it all.


My friend who was my engine builder on my '57 Bug still thinks I'm a traitor for leaving VWs & buying a Honda for a street driver.

The GTO must have been a 64 or 65, no? I had a 67 with a 4 speed that was a lot of fun. White with a black vinyl top. You seem to be about 10 years older than me or so so I would have been drooling over your bitchin' rides in the early 60s

 

[Gizmo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

...
There was first base, second base and third base. Going for the home run ...
...
Lakey

All these "codes", I don't get it.

I think this " home run " is normal sexual intercourse between 2 consenting adults - is that right ?

But I'm baffled by the "bases" & never understood what they meant so I've only guessed all these years so maybe this is the right group to ask ?

"first base" = Long deep passionate French kissing ( better be mutual ! )
"second base" = petting sexual organs to climax ( mutual optional - a double ? )
"third base" = oral sex ( mutual optional - a triple ? )

Did I get it ?

This thread is getting good !