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The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

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Leon-2

Patron Meritorious
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I fully sympathize with your friend. It would never have happened if he and his partner had gone to a lawyer and had him draw up a contract which laid out all of these matters beforehand and how they were to be dealt with if either partner died or became incapacitated. The terms of the contract would then simply have been implemented by the surviving partner and all would have worked out exactly as they wanted it to.

I'm not against gays getting married or having the law provide some security to the structure of their relationship in some way. I am against hoodlum governments seeking to undermine and interfere with the traditions that have existed for thousands of years in churches and which are all agreed to by their members. It is an arbitrary attempt to destroy the structures of society that have evolved with the societies themselves over the millenia.
 

cuitlahuac

Patron with Honors
Re: THE OLD DAYS - ABOARD THE APOLLO - 1973

Don't believe, I saw Hubbard several times. I saw him all the time when walking the promenade deck and he was always C/Sing folder wearing his ascot tiel I saluted him when I was on the watch when he left the ship to ride his motorcycle.People such as Mike Goldstein, Face, Mayo, Captain Bill, Starkey worked with closely in those days and knew him very well. Many of the Commodore's messengers had been working with LRH since 1966 or 1967 and in the later part of 1973, when he got back from New York, they all knew that he was the real LRH. The most compelling evidence of all is that Mary Sue and all 4 children were on board and living with him in the LRH Household Unit and if he had been a phony double, they would all have noticed immediatlely.Well welcome to the board and thanks for sharing some of your ideas. However, give up the idea that in late 1973 the man calling himself LRH was an imposter.Lakey
Thanks a lot for answering your thread. I made a mistake in indicating Hubbard had been changed. What I should have said is that he was no longer as he used to be, like giving taped lectures. Some state that he was implanted by the US secret government. I don't have the thread now. Gery Armstrong states in one video that for the late 70's he was very sick and in pain. In any case, a kidnaping by the US government can't be taken lightly.
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I fully sympathize with your friend. It would never have happened if he and his partner had gone to a lawyer and had him draw up a contract which laid out all of these matters beforehand and how they were to be dealt with if either partner died or became incapacitated. The terms of the contract would then simply have been implemented by the surviving partner and all would have worked out exactly as they wanted it to.

I'm not against gays getting married or having the law provide some security to the structure of their relationship in some way. I am against hoodlum governments seeking to undermine and interfere with the traditions that have existed for thousands of years in churches and which are all agreed to by their members. It is an arbitrary attempt to destroy the structures of society that have evolved with the societies themselves over the millenia.

Yes, that may well have been the case. Unfortunately, many young people neglect to do such things until it's too late and my point, really, is that a recognised marriage certificate would have obviated the need for any such contract altogether.
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I think you might have missed the whole point of the equal rights campaign, Leon.

I've witnessed what a gay friend had to endure whilst trying to navigate probate after his life-partner had, sadly, passed away intestate. A genuine, "government approved" marriage certificate would have saved my friend from having to endure nearly a year of frustration, humiliation, heartache and travail while, in the midst of his grief, he was forced to jump through innumerable bureaucratic hoops in a fruitless effort to satisfy idiotic demands of "proof or relationship".


Yes, I had to witness a similar situation when friends of mine were forced to sell their large, beautiful and very comfortable house that they had built together and loved to buy a tiny, unheated one just around the corner in need of lots of work (which they couldn't do) just so they could free up and control their own cash and assets when one of them was close to death with a long term illness.

It cost them heaps in stamp duty, agents fees and storage costs for their furniture and belongings to do it and it was awful to see them struggle in an uncomfortable, manky house when he was so terribly ill and close to death ... I always felt my friend died earlier than he perhaps would have if he'd been allowed to rest and relax in his last few months.

It was tragic and made them both feel like second class citizens but apparently it was the only solution at the time.
 

cuitlahuac

Patron with Honors
Re: The Old Days-Part 6-The 1990's

I SEE A GOOD FRIEND FOR THE LAST TIME - In 1992 I had not seen the for a long time, Susan since maybe 1979 and Joan since 1984.One day I was standing in the lobby of the Fort Harrison and a beautiful stunning blond girl got out of the elevator. I though, "Wow she looks like Susan used to look in the 1970's but it couldn't be Susan because Susan is in her mid 40's now and would not look like that any more." The girl looked up and saw me and shouted out my name and ran over and hugged me. It was Susan! She said she was there for auditing. I remarked how youthfull she looked and she told me she was 46 now. I told her that she had somehow beat the aging process because she looked about 28 and looked like a cover girl. We talked several times about her family, her singing career and about our mutual love of opera. I returned to L.A. and about 8 months later I was having a meal in a restaurant and noticed Ralph wife (he was her brother) at the table next to ours. I started talking to her and right away she told me that Susan had died of cancer.My stomach dropped and tears came to my eyes. Recently reading about deaths in Scientology, it mentions that Susan had received "end of life auditing." I was very surprised that someone could look vibrant and healthy as she did and be dead from cancer 6 months later.
Jesus man! This probably has more to it than we suspect. According to Capt Bill Robertson, this is the result of Flag being an implant station after it was took over by the US government SPs. Implant station No. 1.
 

ThetanExterior

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The Old Days-Part 6-The 1990's

Jesus man! This probably has more to it than we suspect. According to Capt Bill Robertson, this is the result of Flag being an implant station after it was took over by the US government SPs. Implant station No. 1.

Oh, now you are quoting Capt Bill Robertson as an authority?

Jeez, it gets worse.

Every day that you have here without being banned is a bonus for you. Enjoy it.:screwy:
 

cuitlahuac

Patron with Honors
Re: The Old Days-Part 7-Don't mess with my kids

That is the end of my Scientology story as far as my actual participation in the church. I wrote it because I needed to "debrief" and get it off my chest and because maybe some of the information might be helpful to others. To me it is a "human interest" story. I've had some great comments from several people who have read it. I was thinking of doing one last chapter which would be a Summation of what is both good and bad in Scientology and how some things have changed over the 39 years covered by this story and some things have stayed the same. If I do it, I want to put in some of the comments I have received from others which have made an impression on me.
Thanks a lot. Please do that. Your kids are lucky not to go to Flag and much importantly, to the Sea Org. Today, in fact, since 1982, it is run by the IRS and its US government SPs. And I can see it was out ethics since the 70's. As regards your blood presure. Mine was reaching the upper limit of normal, some 85/120 and when I started taking Cal-Mag, vitamins, oil and niacine, it is now 62/110. I couldn't believe it, but is true. I'm nearly 60. Here I leave a link as to how the US government SPs run Scientology since 1982:
How IRS Runs Scientology________________________________Not only does IRS have a hot-line telephone set up with the top people running Scientology, IRS has also ordered that they receive regular reports about any change in the leadership or organizational pattern. In other words, IRS is set up over Scientology precisely as any CEO is over any organization, as planned by Meade Emory and IRS when Emory was Legislation Attorney for the Joint Committee on Taxation and then Assistant Commisioner of IRS. This chart shows how IRS exerts command and control over Scientology through its top agents--the non-Scientologist Special Directors hand-picked by Emory and IRS to run the top corporation, Church of Spiritual Technology (CST)--and through subordinate agents, the Tax Compliance Officers in OSA's Tax Compliance Sections.______________________________________Below this chart, there is another that shows a brief history of the corporate and intellectual property structure leading up to Emory-created IRS takeover for a "before-and-after" comparison, and notes follow the charts:
http://sc-i-r-s-ology.freiescientologen.de/contents/howirsruns.html
howirscontrols4.gif
 

cuitlahuac

Patron with Honors
Re: The Old Days-Part 6-The 1990's

Oh, now you are quoting Capt Bill Robertson as an authority?Jeez, it gets worse.Every day that you have here without being banned is a bonus for you. Enjoy it.:screwy:
Why do you say he is not? What he stated in the 80's and 90's is being confirmed today. You believe the fairy tales told here without verification, Jeez, you are worse.
 

cuitlahuac

Patron with Honors
Re: The Old Days - Aboard the Apollo 1973 - The Prequel

Needless to say, he finally got to me and I was having a problem at work which I asked him about. He told me that Scientologists did not evaluate for a person but instead gave them the data to figure out the answers for themselves. He then invited me to an intro Lecture to be given at the Los Angeles Organization on June 5 and to be given by a man named Seton Thomas. Harry also invited my Brother and assured us that he would be there to meet us and make sure we got good seats and were handled with good service.My Brother and I were just blown away by Harry and a lot of the people at the party asked, "Who is that beautiful person, what an incredibly beautiful being.?"THE LECTURE The L.A. Org was in a large vintage type two story house, probably built around 1919 or 1920. About 20 to 25 people attended the lecture. Seton Thomas was a nice looking guy who had just turned 40. Later in the lecture, he said that he went clear one year ago in 1969 so though his body was 40, he was really only one year old, dating from when he went Clear. He put on one hell of a great lecture. I found it amusing that he refered to his body as something different than himself. He would grab his waisteline which was flat and firm and say I dig my body, its cool but it isn't me. He covered the ARC triangle among other things. He also stated that L Ron Hubbard was in the first nuclear physics class in the USA and while all the other men taking the class had in mind creating the atomic bomb, L Ron Hubbard was the only one n the class who was using the data given there to free mankind. Seton, also talked of everything in the universe being made of MEST but that we thetans, a term he defined to us, were not in the MEST universe, that we were souls, not that we had a soul as Christianity states it but that man is his own immortal soul. He also had us close our eyes and look at a picture of a cat and then asked each of us 'who' was looking at the picture. When he mentioned that Scientology was a cousin of Buddhism which used similar principles but also used Western scientific technology then I WAS SOLD! I wanted to start my first course, HAS, and I wanted to start immediatelyWhat the Next Couple of Installments Will ContainWell, this will end the first installment of my prequel, I will take this up to October of 1973 when I left L.A. for the Apollo in Portugal. It won't be real long, maybe three or four more installments. After that, I will put this story to bed forever. Some real interesting stuff happened to me prior to going to the Apollo and there are some entertaining anecdotes. I am anxious to see if there will be much interest in reading this prequel.
Of course, this was the "feel" of the 70's.
 

cuitlahuac

Patron with Honors
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

You would trust the word of someone who would do this (and I regard Sheila as a trustworthy witness)? I wouldn't;__________________________________________________________________________________________________http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...Wayne-Marple&p=1039552&viewfull=1#post1039552
Originally Posted by JustSheila ___________________________________________Wayne Marple was under orders from Captain Bill, who was under direct orders of Hubbard. Captain Bill Robertson was assigned responsibility by Hubbard for completion of the renovations at PAC and the smooth transition of moving in each of the orgs in sequence and continue production. They did not have the people to renovate when lo and behold! A new tek discovery that relabels dirty needles as R/Ses. A quote from the old man, a reference that had not been followed. Somehow David Mayo was involved, but I remember something about him disagreeing that a dirty needle was an R/S, then suddenly it all got blamed on him.Then by one of those common miraculous supposed miracles of Scientology, it took two years to get this corrected and meanwhile, any staff member who said anything but 'yes sir!' was suspected of bad intentions, sent for sec checks, and if you could dirty up his needle (like Wayne Marple did) you got another free slave for renovations on 4 hrs sleep per night, crashing out for5 mins on the sunny.Everyone was terrified of being sent to the RPF. And when the renovations were done, the tek was corrected. :eye roll:
1977 and on orders of Hubbard? Of course I believe this at face value. 1977. Besides, a dirty needle is not a R/S, but in this case, a dirty needle is not that far from a R/S. By 1977 Hubbard had been abducted by the US government and the US government and IRS plan for a takeover in 1982 was well underway. The FBI raids. Seck Checks were an over reaction to infiltration. In this case served to furnish cheap labour for the renovations.
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Cuitolahuac certainly seems to believe that CoS was taken over at some point by the US government. I know that when Ingo Swan and Hal Puthoff were looking into the subject of remote viewing, seeing from a distance without the use of the body's eyes, the US Federal Government got very interested. The military perceived remote viewing as a national security risk and well they should have. It made sense that they hired agents such as Swan and Puthoff to infiltrate CoS and check out what was going on.

For her part, Yvonne Jentzsch was talking often about Swan and Puthoff to CCLA staff, treating them as celebrities. I don't believe that the thought that the idea that they might be government spies, sent in by the US government to check out remote viewing, ever occurred to her. In some ways she was brilliant but in others she didn't have a particularly sharp mind. I believe that she knew this and so she attempted to place people more knowledgeable than her in various subjects, which she hated and was not good at.

You take Treasury Division. Yvonne had no interest whatsoever in Treasury, the division which handled accounting and the flow of money through the Org. She know only the very basics of Treasury and found the subject as a whole boring beyond belief. She would find someone such as Robert Brown, my predecessor, who knew and understood treasury, and keep him oround to run that area of the Org. She knew someone knowledgeable had to run Treasury but it had to be someone who was loyal to her.

Brown needed to take a leave, or perhaps he was just going to quit staff. Yvonne needed someone to take over for him and I volunteered. At the time, I was 31 years old and fresh from the WOG world, working in aerospace and with B.S. degree from a University. Yvonne jumped at my offer to replace Brownie. At the time, I had no tact nor any cunning or street smarts. . I just went walking around, always telling the truth as I saw it and being totally open with people. I'm still basically the same now except, I have been forced to withhold many things simply in order to survive. My propensity to always tell the truth and blab it to anyone who will listen has always harmed me in any area which I entered.

Compulsive truth telling. That might be an okay thing in a spiritual paradise but in this world, it is a path to self destruction. As a result, the compulsive urge to spurt out the truth, as I know it, which is not always right or accurate, seems to be a compulsion, in the psychiatric sense of the word, which I have.

I think that Yvonne might have picked up on this trait, which I still have but had back then with much more force and less restraint. Also, she found me a bit dull and too conservative for her. When the big mouthed happy go lucky 18 year old Kitty showed up at CCLA in 1972 fresh out of high school and expressed to Yvonne the desire to be Treasury Secretary, Yvonne jumped at it. In staid of a dull conservative type of guy who blabbed too much, she could have an exuberant and loud mouthed female running Treasury. I already had been promised the post so she had to figure out some way to replace me with Kitty. Thus, I now believe that she set up the "toilet paper incident" on purpose. The whole thing was a ruse designed by her to put me in a bad enough light to justify getting rid of me in favor of Kitty. Yvonne still was going to keep me in Treasury because I somebody there had to know the subject but I was going to be Kitty's junior. I would see to it that the work got done while Kitty would attend theExec meetings. The whole "toilet paper incident" was a set up enable Yvonne to be able to appoint the 18 year old completely unhatted Kitty as my senior. To Kitty's credit, she was smart and quickly got hatted, partially under my tutelage.

Finally, in ending this post, I want to get back to the manner in which I left the Apollo. Today, it is hard for anyone to escape a S.O. base and before they go, they are given a huge battery of sec checking. With me, once I created a PR flap by going to the US Embassy in Madeira and telling the agent there that I had lost my passport, the powers that be on the Apollo wanted me gone ASAP. Two days after I returned to the ship, I got my Committee of Evidence and the very next day at noon, my plane was leaving Lisbon for Los Angeles. I got no sec checking whatsoever. I was told that I was either insane or incompetent by a 19 year old Sea Org Member and was sent on my way. I'm lucky I got out so easily but was extremely unfortunate to get our without getting any kind of debrief. All of the early data on this thread was seething inside of my mind and the S.O. just forced me out instantly with no handling at all. That is truly amazing!! I spent 36 years walking around with all this data inside of me. Only when I got to ESMB was I FINALLY able to debrief and get some peace.

The S.O., presents the claim that they are and were always some sort of super conpetent group set up as the elite controlling body of CoS. Nothing could be further from the truth. It's true that some very fine and competent people had been recruited for the S.O. and were working there but the S.O. was led by one man and was a dictatorship as was the entire CoS. . He was no saint, and not even really all that smart as later events have proved. He had smarts,main street smarts, and a touch of academic smarts but his main claim to fame was his personal charisma and a lot of personal desire to stamp his name permanently into the history books as the greatest of men. He was nobody's fool and had some brilliance to be sure.

However, it was misguided brilliance and charisma, put to use only further his own wealth and fame. He worked hard to achieve those goals and got part of the way there, just based on his shear determination. In the end, he failed and fell very short of his goals. He knew he had failed so he got ill and quietly bowed out, not even choosing a successor. That shows what he really thought about Scientologists. He was not a Scientologist himself and was mainly using the subject to further his desire for wealth and fame. When it became obvious to him that he was not going to achieve his goals despite all the work he had put in, he quietly ended his life, not even appointing a successor or providing for his wife and children. The bottom line is that he did not care about us, he was only interested in perpetuating his name in history.
Lakey
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

The whole gay-marriage foofaraw really has nothing to do with gays getting married.

Marriage as a deliberate action - where the man made vows to care for the wife and children and the wife made vows to be faithful and so on, started way back when the religious leaders of the time incorporated the agreements already being made between man and woman into their doctrine so as to give them more "force" as it were, by saying that God is involved in it and looks kindly upon it. So it became a sacrament or something. And it was agreed upon between Jews and Christians and Muslims and all else that this institute was a reality and had to be respected.

Fast forward a thousand or more years to where governments - which were really mafia gangs dressed up in fancy clothes - started and they didn't want the rivalry of churches interfering in their domination of the citizenry. (In between the FF was the entire period of intelligent and and altruistic governments though they didn't stand much of a chance against the mafia hoods.)

So OK, Government by criminals is what we have now and part of their agenda is to unmock any rivals that exist and one of these is organised religions. These need to be taken down. So the mafiosi promote atheism everywhere and when kooky guys start religious groups they get ridiculed and false-flagged and generally made irrelevant in society. And part of this then, is to take their ceremonies and traditions away from them. And one important part of this is the unmocking of the widely held idea of man-woman relationships being "normal".

So yeah, men can marry each other, women too, marry your dog or cat, it will soon be all OK. And any churches who claim the right to deny their sacraments to people because of their sexual orientation or criminal behaviour or whatever - these are then guilty of discrimination (a crime now, please note - it used to be a virtue) AND MUST BE SUPPRESSED THE SHIT OUT OF.

It is NOT about gays having the right to have their relationships protected by the force of law - this has always been available to them, so they are factually gaining nothing they did not have before. What it is really about is the taking away from organised religions the institutions and rites which they have traditionally had as their own domain.

All well and good Leon, I'm on board with your postl BTWk do you have any idea why the Muslim religion gets a free pass by Government by criminals? Why is it considered politically incorrect for any one in the West to attack Islam or anyone who is of Islam? Why would the Government by Criminals have to do that? I just don't grasp their intent.
Lakey
 

Anonycat

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I fully sympathize with your friend. It would never have happened if he and his partner had gone to a lawyer and had him draw up a contract which laid out all of these matters beforehand and how they were to be dealt with if either partner died or became incapacitated. The terms of the contract would then simply have been implemented by the surviving partner and all would have worked out exactly as they wanted it to.

I'm not against gays getting married or having the law provide some security to the structure of their relationship in some way. I am against hoodlum governments seeking to undermine and interfere with the traditions that have existed for thousands of years in churches and which are all agreed to by their members. It is an arbitrary attempt to destroy the structures of society that have evolved with the societies themselves over the millenia.

I am not trying to stop anyone here from talking out their ass, but sometimes I take a moment to correct them. LOL, 'hoodlum governments". It's actually people who support it, as well as the Constitution.

____

June 8, 2015
Changing Attitudes on Gay Marriage
Public Opinion

In Pew Research polling in 2001, Americans opposed same-sex marriage by a 57% to 35% margin.

Since then, support for same-sex marriage has steadily grown. Today, a majority of Americans (57%) support same-sex marriage, compared with 39% who oppose it.

Attitudes by Generation

This is due in part to generational change. Younger generations express higher levels of support for same-sex marriage.

However, older generations also have become more supportive of same-sex marriage in recent years.

Attitudes by Religious Affiliation

Among people who are religiously unaffiliated, a solid majority have supported same-sex marriage since 2001.

And among Catholics and white mainline Protestants, roughly six-in-ten now express support for same-sex marriage.

http://www.pewforum.org/2015/06/08/graphics-slideshow-changing-attitudes-on-gay-marriage/

Further, you can take your 'millenia.' (sic) and firmly reexamine it. It's called social norms. Those change over time, and as humanity and societies evolve, they decide what is deviant and what is normal. So yeah, you cannot don chainmail and ride a horse hacking up people in the next village with a sword and expect a heroes welcome. That right to pursue happiness is not upheld by the Constitution. Although a tradition for many years, it is now considered wrong.
 

Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I see these effects of the SCOTUS ruling:

a) A church would have to be careful of members signing statements of faith as these too could be viewed as violating the ruling, as a form of screening out of unwanted classes of folks.
b) A church could still refuse the ruling, having a constitutional right to do so as a religion [i.e., choosing to refuse] but on that basis would then lose their non-profit status as a corporate organization.

The ruling seems to clarify or separate [legally] the corporate organization from the belief system/religion.

Interesting.

Of course SCOTUS was torn on two fronts. One is the social issue. As it turned out, dissent was on the basis of the constitutional issue, which is not at all based on whether the dissenting justices approve or disapprove on moral grounds. Wasn't Roberts sympathetic on a moral basis but on a constitutional basis had to dissent? For apparently the ruling impacts states autonomy as well as constitutional issues concerning religion. And these issues that were impacted are really blind/unrelated to the social justice position which prevailed.

The problem with law is that there are always competing interests, 'goods', values, desires and not all of these interests concur. And each of these of course has validity within its limited sphere. Thus states object (but often conform to) to Federal overreach and religions object that governments tell them what to believe or how to believe it and human beings object to both government and religions when these encroach on individual desires and freedoms and 'rights.'

This sort of 'balancing' act or lack thereof among branches of government was by design : the three branches were established as they were [in cognizance of human nature and the lessons of material history] to prevent any one party or interest from gaining undue influence or power; the result of which would be tyranny or collapse. What we now have : an increasing legal drift to democratic rule as opposed to the previous structure of constitutional republic.

"Art is what you can get away with" - Andy Warhol
 
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Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Cuitolahuac certainly seems to believe that CoS was taken over at some point by the US government. I know that when Ingo Swan and Hal Puthoff were looking into the subject of remote viewing, seeing from a distance without the use of the body's eyes, the US Federal Government got very interested. The military perceived remote viewing as a national security risk and well they should have. It made sense that they hired agents such as Swan and Puthoff to infiltrate CoS and check out what was going on.

For her part, Yvonne Jentzsch was talking often about Swan and Puthoff to CCLA staff, treating them as celebrities. I don't believe that the thought that the idea that they might be government spies, sent in by the US government to check out remote viewing, ever occurred to her. In some ways she was brilliant but in others she didn't have a particularly sharp mind. I believe that she knew this and so she attempted to place people more knowledgeable than her in various subjects, which she hated and was not good at.

You take Treasury Division. Yvonne had no interest whatsoever in Treasury, the division which handled accounting and the flow of money through the Org. She know only the very basics of Treasury and found the subject as a whole boring beyond belief. She would find someone such as Robert Brown, my predecessor, who knew and understood treasury, and keep him oround to run that area of the Org. She knew someone knowledgeable had to run Treasury but it had to be someone who was loyal to her.

Brown needed to take a leave, or perhaps he was just going to quit staff. Yvonne needed someone to take over for him and I volunteered. At the time, I was 31 years old and fresh from the WOG world, working in aerospace and with B.S. degree from a University. Yvonne jumped at my offer to replace Brownie. At the time, I had no tact nor any cunning or street smarts. . I just went walking around, always telling the truth as I saw it and being totally open with people. I'm still basically the same now except, I have been forced to withhold many things simply in order to survive. My propensity to always tell the truth and blab it to anyone who will listen has always harmed me in any area which I entered.

Compulsive truth telling. That might be an okay thing in a spiritual paradise but in this world, it is a path to self destruction. As a result, the compulsive urge to spurt out the truth, as I know it, which is not always right or accurate, seems to be a compulsion, in the psychiatric sense of the word, which I have.

I think that Yvonne might have picked up on this trait, which I still have but had back then with much more force and less restraint. Also, she found me a bit dull and too conservative for her. When the big mouthed happy go lucky 18 year old Kitty showed up at CCLA in 1972 fresh out of high school and expressed to Yvonne the desire to be Treasury Secretary, Yvonne jumped at it. In staid of a dull conservative type of guy who blabbed too much, she could have an exuberant and loud mouthed female running Treasury. I already had been promised the post so she had to figure out some way to replace me with Kitty. Thus, I now believe that she set up the "toilet paper incident" on purpose. The whole thing was a ruse designed by her to put me in a bad enough light to justify getting rid of me in favor of Kitty. Yvonne still was going to keep me in Treasury because I somebody there had to know the subject but I was going to be Kitty's junior. I would see to it that the work got done while Kitty would attend theExec meetings. The whole "toilet paper incident" was a set up enable Yvonne to be able to appoint the 18 year old completely unhatted Kitty as my senior. To Kitty's credit, she was smart and quickly got hatted, partially under my tutelage.

Finally, in ending this post, I want to get back to the manner in which I left the Apollo. Today, it is hard for anyone to escape a S.O. base and before they go, they are given a huge battery of sec checking. With me, once I created a PR flap by going to the US Embassy in Madeira and telling the agent there that I had lost my passport, the powers that be on the Apollo wanted me gone ASAP. Two days after I returned to the ship, I got my Committee of Evidence and the very next day at noon, my plane was leaving Lisbon for Los Angeles. I got no sec checking whatsoever. I was told that I was either insane or incompetent by a 19 year old Sea Org Member and was sent on my way. I'm lucky I got out so easily but was extremely unfortunate to get our without getting any kind of debrief. All of the early data on this thread was seething inside of my mind and the S.O. just forced me out instantly with no handling at all. That is truly amazing!! I spent 36 years walking around with all this data inside of me. Only when I got to ESMB was I FINALLY able to debrief and get some peace.

The S.O., presents the claim that they are and were always some sort of super conpetent group set up as the elite controlling body of CoS. Nothing could be further from the truth. It's true that some very fine and competent people had been recruited for the S.O. and were working there but the S.O. was led by one man and was a dictatorship as was the entire CoS. . He was no saint, and not even really all that smart as later events have proved. He had smarts,main street smarts, and a touch of academic smarts but his main claim to fame was his personal charisma and a lot of personal desire to stamp his name permanently into the history books as the greatest of men. He was nobody's fool and had some brilliance to be sure.

However, it was misguided brilliance and charisma, put to use only further his own wealth and fame. He worked hard to achieve those goals and got part of the way there, just based on his shear determination. In the end, he failed and fell very short of his goals. He knew he had failed so he got ill and quietly bowed out, not even choosing a successor. That shows what he really thought about Scientologists. He was not a Scientologist himself and was mainly using the subject to further his desire for wealth and fame. When it became obvious to him that he was not going to achieve his goals despite all the work he had put in, he quietly ended his life, not even appointing a successor or providing for his wife and children. The bottom line is that he did not care about us, he was only interested in perpetuating his name in history.
Lakey

As I said sometime in March and we disagreed on this then [in relation to friends HAVING to agree or to confess things], I feel that full communication is a flaw, and a compulsion, and not necessary. Simply compulsively revealing things does not mean one was being true or having integrity. Integrity also implies being quiet and not speaking, at certain times. So of course this is a skill [albeit imperfect] to know when to reserve and when to speak, and both qualities are part of being good and true, in my opinion. The idea, or lie, that one must always 'spill' the truth is a control mechanism as far as I can tell, since the confessor gains control over a person by being able to be certain that they compulsively don't know how to withhold. (And that they suffer from 'guilt' if they do reserve even the slightest thing to themselves.) When 'guilt' appears, I tend to suspect there is some control factor involved. This is why I don't respond to guilt, ever. I will run from anyone who wants to impose it!

The flows, both in and out, withhold and tell, are both 'abilities'. The universe cannot work without both. Both have to be present at ALL times.

Thus when we breath, we breath IN and OUT, not simply OUT.

If we only breathed out we would die...So that's wonderful that you learned how to not always tell things [the content is not relevant just the compulsion]....it is a plus to learn to breath in as well as to breath out.

As for spiritual paradise: I doubt it would be needed there either since concepts and compulsions would not exist there either.
 
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Leon-2

Patron Meritorious
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

The proper EP of Expanded Grade Two includes "full recovery of the ability to withhold".
 
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