Freezoners, please answer these questions

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

Originally Posted by acertainratio
As I said in an earlier post, Scientology is a dark and dangerous thing with the potential to wreck people totally - physically, mentally, and socially.

People who have suffered this kind of damage have a strong desire to prevent other people going through the same trauma.

With the best will in the world, I don't see how people who have been through that hell can accept the idea that Scn outside the Cof$ is all fine and shiny.

I'm a big advocate of free speech, so I'm not suggesting that anyone should be silenced.

I have to be honest and say that my foremost inclination is to support people who have been hurt by the cult.

It would be good if the FZ'ers on this board would give some deep thought to the damage done by the subject that they hold so dearly, and the fact that many of the people here suffered that damage. Most of them I think, are here to work on their recovery, and help others doing the same.

So FZ'ers, please think about what you can do to make your presence here congruent with the fact that this is an ex - scientologists board.

Here's the big question:

If you are not here to recruit people and sing the praises of Scientology, why are you here, and what can you contribute?

None of these are trick questions, and I'm not asking so that I can duff you up when you answer.

As we know, there are plenty of FZ and independent boards; so why do you like to come here?

Those who are here to help themselves recover, and help others recover deserve a lot of consideration, in my view.

But as I say, I'm not into attacking free speech, and I'm not into expelling people, so I would like to hear something from you about how you can take part in debate on an ex - scientologists forum without undermining the basic purpose of the board or undermining the recovery of people who've been hurt by the subject that you hold dear.


The above is from another thread but I don't want this getting lost. I would like to see these questions answered.

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[Soul of Ginnungagab]

I suppose that by an FZ'er you mean a person affiliated with a "RONs org" organization, since that is how the term is mostly applied on this board.

Technically speaking a Scientologists is a person associated with and/or in agreement with the official Scientology Church.
A person that was in such an agreement in the past but no longer is in present time is an ex-Scientologist.

Therefore also an FZ'er is in fact an ex-Scientologist. I do know that there are some of those that label themselves a Scientologist anyway. But that means that they have a different definition of the term "Scientologist" than the official definition, which is clearly a person in agreement with the official church.

This board is NOT a black/white board but rather a very nuanced board. That is at least how I see it. That is a reason why the board is powerful and why I like to be here. I am aware that in some situations one does need to take a black/white approach to a subject in order to distance oneself from it, but on a broader scale life is indeed a multi-nuanced phenomenon. It would make sense to take a clearly black/white approach regarding the term "Scientologist" in my opinion as indicated above. Thus it is easy to say who is a Scientologist and who is not.

But once one is an ex-Scientologist there are tons of nuances.

What makes it very delicate is that many persons did find out something for themselves via Scientology. They can't reject everything they learned or realized or got aware of in Scientology without rejecting themselves. But what they found out belongs to themselves NOT to Scientology which is why it is OK. They need to "only" relieve from their mind what belongs to Scientology, NOT what belongs to themselves. I put the word "only" in quotes because it is not as easy as the term "only" might indicate. It is a task that takes years for most people. For some it would mean that they go through an FZ organization for others it would mean something completely different.

EDIT: Corrected some spelling.

 

[uncle sam]

WTF did you say?

No disrespect because I really like your last name "Ginnungagab". It is so very cool. But somehow-someway I missed your conclusion-please rephrase the part were you draw "your point". I'm an older person and I need to have things explained to me in a simple-old fashion way. I wish to thank you for helping me to understand your point of view. The Anabaptist is easy to understand even though he uses lots of words. Again-thanks!

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

I suppose that by an FZ'er you mean a person affiliated with a "RONs org" organization, since that is how the term is mostly applied on this board.

Technically speaking a Scientologists is a person associated with and/or in agreement with the official Scientology Church.
A person that was in such an agreement in the past but no longer is in present time is an ex-Scientologist.

Therefore also an FZ'er is in fact an ex-Scientologist. I do know that there are some of those that label themselves a Scientologist anyway. But that means that they have a different definition of the term "Scientologist" than the official definition, which is clearly a person in agreement with the official church.

This board is NOT a black/white board but rather a very nuanced board. That is at least how I see it. That is a reason why the board is powerful and why I like to be here. I am aware that in some situations one does need to take a black/white approach to a subject in order to distance oneself from it, but on a broader scale life is indeed a multi-nuanced phenomenon. It would make sense to take a clearly black/white approach regarding the term "Scientologist" in my opinion as indicated above. Thus it is easy to say who is a Scientologist and who is not.

But once one is an ex-Scientologist there are tons of nuances.

What makes it very delicate is that many persons did find out something for themselves via Scientology. They can't reject everything they learned or realized or got aware of in Scientology without rejecting themselves. But what they found out belongs to themselves NOT to Scientology which is why it is OK. They need to "only" relieve from their mind what belongs to Scientology, not what belongs to themselves. I put the word "only" in quotes because it is not as easy as the term "only" might indicate. It it a task that takes years for most people. For some it would mean that they go through an FZ organization for others it would mean something completely different.

Sorry, I don't buy it. If a person believes in the workability of Scientology to the extent that he wishes to be a practitioner of it, he is a Scientologist. You don't have to be a Roman Catholic to be a Christian. You can splinter off from any organized church and still belief in Christianity. This idea that you are not "technically" a Scientologist because you are not in good standing with the Church is a rhetoric trick.
Granted there are people who are at various stages in their departure of Scientology. But if a person is singing the praises of Scientology then why are they here, in a place of sanctuary from Scientology?
That is the question that is being dodged.


The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[Pierrot]

Originally Posted by acertainratio

(snip)

If you are not here to recruit people and sing the praises of Scientology, why are you here, and what can you contribute?

None of these are trick questions, and I'm not asking so that I can duff you up when you answer.

As we know, there are plenty of FZ and independent boards; so why do you like to come here?

Those who are here to help themselves recover, and help others recover deserve a lot of consideration, in my view.

(snip)

The above is from another thread but I don't want this getting lost. I would like to see these questions answered.

The Anabaptist Jacques

okay, it seems a genuine question, so ... - I don't consider myself a Freezoner, but since I'm pro-FZ (and pro any practice aimed at developping human abilities, coaching, etc) and as I like to audit (standard tech, to my best ability, whenever possible) I might be labelled by some as such (sigh) so why not answer a bit -

It's no news those recovering from cults need consideration, safe space and care. In the 80s auditors who left the CofS/were kicked out of it were surrounded by friends in a bad shape. Perso - I was fed up at some point then by the noise generated by messed up "cases" and tired of complaints. I offered help (but NEVER in my practice did I ask nor attempt to "handle" someone to come into session - no proselytizing, don't worry) A couple of hours later, or a dozen, I had friends I could talk with about music, food, women, culture, you name it, but NO talk about Scn anymore. A relief! They moved on with life.

As a side note - although I always ended up cycles stating "thanks for coming, you don't need me anymore" or such, some were keeping coming back. And bringing friends in for sessions. People who were professional Doctors, Lawyers, Psychologists, Businessmen, Artists, some Jahovah Witness I remember, some coming from NLP, Bio-energy, ... fields,etc. Always measuring any progress by visible improvements in life, and for those initially interested in Scn and Tech having them on lines as long as they wanted till they had no unanswered questions left. No mystery left.

FInally last century I got through and could create time to play guitar. And go on with my life.

But - I still love auditing, So sometimes someone comes in wanting services. And sometimes someone who was "serviced" by an Org comes in - I found out lately that "tech" got changed and I like to keep myself up to date knowing what kind of a mess the person coming in might be immersed in. This board helps a lot that wise. Actually if someone came to me and asked about Scn I'd answer "go read ESMB, some Freezone sites, some church's and make up your mind (but don't allow anyone else to make up your mind)"

That's one reason - learning and observing about one of the subjects I studied this lifetime, and I love, Scientology.

But you'd notice I'm mainly in a lurking mode here. And that leads us into the next reason for me being here - reading posts for a day on the Ex-Scientologists board I get more Scientology than I had during the last, say, 7 years. I noticed I was missing that, thus I come back ;-)

little note: nothing in my statements and opinions should be read as an urge or invitation to get "audited", "processed" or get more tech. This is no advertisement, no way.

 

[Pitbull]

There are many paths to "recovery".

But first do realize that many folks had BIG ISSUES that led
them to Scientology in the first place.

Some were attracted to the space drama, potential "out-of-body"
stuff that Scientology is, in truth, really weak at.

And some came into it to improve their lives or even help others.

But those motivations and issues are still there.

So many would still like to continue to learn and grow, even though
they found the church ROYALLY took advantage of them.

The idea of using a type of therapy for greater self-awareness, rather
than just to handle issues, if pretty compelling stuff.

So many people don't want to "give up" just because there are
some major dirt bags behind Scientology.

They found auditing useful and want more of it.

For others, the path of "healing" might just mean getting back to a "normal" life. And that's OK too.

I personally don't get some of the Ron's Org guys who still believe in BTs and such, but the cornucopia of options available now is a good thing.

And in the meantime everyone can protest the church and see that Miscavige and Co. are given the boot sooner than later.

 

[Terril park]

Originally Posted by acertainratio
As I said in an earlier post, Scientology is a dark and dangerous thing with the potential to wreck people totally - physically, mentally, and socially.

People who have suffered this kind of damage have a strong desire to prevent other people going through the same trauma.

With the best will in the world, I don't see how people who have been through that hell can accept the idea that Scn outside the Cof$ is all fine and shiny.

I'm a big advocate of free speech, so I'm not suggesting that anyone should be silenced.

I have to be honest and say that my foremost inclination is to support people who have been hurt by the cult.

It would be good if the FZ'ers on this board would give some deep thought to the damage done by the subject that they hold so dearly, and the fact that many of the people here suffered that damage. Most of them I think, are here to work on their recovery, and help others doing the same.

So FZ'ers, please think about what you can do to make your presence here congruent with the fact that this is an ex - scientologists board.

Here's the big question:

If you are not here to recruit people and sing the praises of Scientology, why are you here, and what can you contribute?

None of these are trick questions, and I'm not asking so that I can duff you up when you answer.

As we know, there are plenty of FZ and independent boards; so why do you like to come here?

Those who are here to help themselves recover, and help others recover deserve a lot of consideration, in my view.

But as I say, I'm not into attacking free speech, and I'm not into expelling people, so I would like to hear something from you about how you can take part in debate on an ex - scientologists forum without undermining the basic purpose of the board or undermining the recovery of people who've been hurt by the subject that you hold dear.


The above is from another thread but I don't want this getting lost. I would like to see these questions answered.

The Anabaptist Jacques

Many people in the FZ have also had horrific experiences in the COS. In general this is from EO's, execs, GO/OSA, regs, management.

This can embrace a variety of wrong indications, items apart from anything else.

Problems caused by auditing I believe are not common. Well, failing to deliver what was promised, and given sec checks instead is it appears widespread.

Sitting down and talking to someone is not inherently dangerous.

The problems one gets in COS and its structure are not problems exported
to the FZ.

I too would like to see those still trapped in COS freed from the various difficult situations they are exposed to such as disconnection. Letting it be known that auditing can occur outside COS helps in this.

I have a purpose of letting people know the freezone is available if they want it. My experience, and the vast majority of FZers view is that tech is useful and valuable away from the COS.

I also very much enjoy this message board.

Let me reverse this question.

Is it probable that all the independants and all the various mainstream talk therapies are beneficial, and that only scientology ( outside of the COS)
is dark and dangerous?

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

okay, it seems a genuine question, so ... - I don't consider myself a Freezoner, but since I'm pro-FZ (and pro any practice aimed at developping human abilities, coaching, etc) and as I like to audit (standard tech, to my best ability, whenever possible) I might be labelled by some as such (sigh) so why not answer a bit -

It's no news those recovering from cults need consideration, safe space and care. In the 80s auditors who left the CofS/were kicked out of it were surrounded by friends in a bad shape. Perso - I was fed up at some point then by the noise generated by messed up "cases" and tired of complaints. I offered help (but NEVER in my practice did I ask nor attempt to "handle" someone to come into session - no proselytizing, don't worry) A couple of hours later, or a dozen, I had friends I could talk with about music, food, women, culture, you name it, but NO talk about Scn anymore. A relief! They moved on with life.

As a side note - although I always ended up cycles stating "thanks for coming, you don't need me anymore" or such, some were keeping coming back. And bringing friends in for sessions. People who were professional Doctors, Lawyers, Psychologists, Businessmen, Artists, some Jahovah Witness I remember, some coming from NLP, Bio-energy, ... fields,etc. Always measuring any progress by visible improvements in life, and for those initially interested in Scn and Tech having them on lines as long as they wanted till they had no unanswered questions left. No mystery left.

FInally last century I got through and could create time to play guitar. And go on with my life.

But - I still love auditing, So sometimes someone comes in wanting services. And sometimes someone who was "serviced" by an Org comes in - I found out lately that "tech" got changed and I like to keep myself up to date knowing what kind of a mess the person coming in might be immersed in. This board helps a lot that wise. Actually if someone came to me and asked about Scn I'd answer "go read ESMB, some Freezone sites, some church's and make up your mind (but don't allow anyone else to make up your mind)"

That's one reason - learning and observing about one of the subjects I studied this lifetime, and I love, Scientology.

But you'd notice I'm mainly in a lurking mode here. And that leads us into the next reason for me being here - reading posts for a day on the Ex-Scientologists board I get more Scientology than I had during the last, say, 7 years. I noticed I was missing that, thus I come back ;-)

little note: nothing in my statements and opinions should be read as an urge or invitation to get "audited", "processed" or get more tech. This is no advertisement, no way.

Ok, that's cool. But I gather you do not sing the praises of Scientology while you are here. I do have a question. When you say you get Scientology here, is that from what is written here by Freezoners? And if it is, that proves my point. Nobbody should come here for the Scientology. there are other places to go for that. Somebody then, is putting Scientology into a place of sanctuary from Scientolgoy. That is like buying a round of drinks at an Alchohol Annonymous group meeting. What would be someone's intention in doing that?

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

There are many paths to "recovery".

But first do realize that many folks had BIG ISSUES that led
them to Scientology in the first place.

Some were attracted to the space drama, potential "out-of-body"
stuff that Scientology is, in truth, really weak at.

And some came into it to improve their lives or even help others.

But those motivations and issues are still there.

So many would still like to continue to learn and grow, even though
they found the church ROYALLY took advantage of them.

The idea of using a type of therapy for greater self-awareness, rather
than just to handle issues, if pretty compelling stuff.

So many people don't want to "give up" just because there are
some major dirt bags behind Scientology.

They found auditing useful and want more of it.

For others, the path of "healing" might just mean getting back to a "normal" life. And that's OK too.

I personally don't get some of the Ron's Org guys who still believe in BTs and such, but the cornucopia of options available now is a good thing.

And in the meantime everyone can protest the church and see that Miscavige and Co. are given the boot sooner than later.

Sorry Pitbull, this is more Hubbard evaluation-babble. If they want more auditing then go directly to the Freezone. One shouldn't go to a place of sanctuary from Scientology and promote Scientology Lite.

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[acertainratio]

Sorry, I don't buy it. If a person believes in the workability of Scientology to the extent that he wishes to be a practitioner of it, he is a Scientologist. You don't have to be a Roman Catholic to be a Christian. You can splinter off from any organized church and still belief in Christianity. This idea that you are not "technically" a Scientologist because you are not in good standing with the Church is a rhetoric trick.
Granted there are people who are at various stages in their departure of Scientology. But if a person is singing the praises of Scientology then why are they here, in a place of sanctuary from Scientology?
That is the question that is being dodged.


The Anabaptist Jacques

I am an ex - FZ scientologist and I can tell you for sure that if you're in the FZ you are very much a Scientologist - especially if you are Rons Org.

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

Many people in the FZ have also had horrific experiences in the COS. In general this is from EO's, execs, GO/OSA, regs, management.

This can embrace a variety of wrong indications, items apart from anything else.

Problems caused by auditing I believe are not common. Well, failing to deliver what was promised, and given sec checks instead is it appears widespread.

Sitting down and talking to someone is not inherently dangerous.

The problems one gets in COS and its structure are not problems exported
to the FZ.

I too would like to see those still trapped in COS freed from the various difficult situations they are exposed to such as disconnection. Letting it be known that auditing can occur outside COS helps in this.

I have a purpose of letting people know the freezone is available if they want it. My experience, and the vast majority of FZers view is that tech is useful and valuable away from the COS.

I also very much enjoy this message board.

Let me reverse this question.

Is it probable that all the independants and all the various mainstream talk therapies are beneficial, and that only scientology ( outside of the COS)
is dark and dangerous?

I've got to tell you Terril, I do appreciate you direct communication. I don't think that Scientology is the only dark and dangerous therapy, but I do know from experience and observation and reasoning that Scientology itself is a dark and dangerous therapy.
There are lots of drugs a person could become addicted to; but what we have here are people recovering from a particular drug, and people come here to promote and defend the very drug thesee people are trying to get off of. It seems contemptuous to me that someone would want people back on the drug that they has negatively affect them. You can promote the Freezone on your Freezone site. If you want to argue that the drug is good for some people and that the ones here have just gotten a bad dose, do it at your place, not in a recovery center. This is our sanctuary from Scientology. despite what you may think are the sources of our discontent, this is our sanctuary from Scientology. Promote your cures at your site.

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[acertainratio]

Many people in the FZ have also had horrific experiences in the COS. In general this is from EO's, execs, GO/OSA, regs, management.

This can embrace a variety of wrong indications, items apart from anything else.

Problems caused by auditing I believe are not common. Well, failing to deliver what was promised, and given sec checks instead is it appears widespread.

Sitting down and talking to someone is not inherently dangerous.

The problems one gets in COS and its structure are not problems exported
to the FZ.

I too would like to see those still trapped in COS freed from the various difficult situations they are exposed to such as disconnection. Letting it be known that auditing can occur outside COS helps in this.

I have a purpose of letting people know the freezone is available if they want it. My experience, and the vast majority of FZers view is that tech is useful and valuable away from the COS.

I also very much enjoy this message board.

Let me reverse this question.

Is it probable that all the independants and all the various mainstream talk therapies are beneficial, and that only scientology ( outside of the COS)
is dark and dangerous?

All that is fine my friend but you didn't answer my question:

"If you are not here to recruit people and sing the praises of Scientology, why are you here, and what can you contribute?

None of these are trick questions, and I'm not asking so that I can duff you up when you answer.

As we know, there are plenty of FZ and independent boards; so why do you like to come here?

Those who are here to help themselves recover, and help others recover deserve a lot of consideration, in my view.

But as I say, I'm not into attacking free speech, and I'm not into expelling people, so I would like to hear something from you about how you can take part in debate on an ex - scientologists forum without undermining the basic purpose of the board or undermining the recovery of people who've been hurt by the subject that you hold dear."

As far as talk therapies go: some of the accepted ones can have negative results when poorly applied, and the many pseudotherapies such as EST, and NLP, have damaged people.

When I was in the FZ I was a Scientologist, and so was everyone I dealt with in there. Now I am an ex-scientologist.

You are still a Scientologist, and you know it.

You don't have to answer my question and I won't ask you to again, but I'd be grateful if you did.

 

[Pitbull]

Sorry to hear that Jacques.

In not professing "auditing for all" just pointing out that some want it.

And to reach those inside, we need to have compassion for the
wants and needs of those still trapped in the church.

We can't talk to anyone inside if every other word out of our mouths
is that everything, ABOLUTELY, everything they believe in is total crap.

And its likely that many other things that "ex-scientologists" propose
are questionable too.

People get involved in cults and relationships because the need something.

I'm not quite sure what some "ex-members" are offering.

 

[acertainratio]

Sorry to hear that Jacques.

In not professing "auditing for all" just pointing out that some want it.

And to reach those inside, we need to have compassion for the
wants and needs of those still trapped in the church.

We can't talk to anyone inside if every other word out of our mouths
is that everything, ABOLUTELY, everything they believe in is total crap.

And its likely that many other things that "ex-scientologists" propose
are questionable too.

People get involved in cults and relationships because the need something.

I'm not quite sure what some "ex-members" are offering.

They're not offering you anything - they are here for each other.

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

Sorry to hear that Jacques.

In not professing "auditing for all" just pointing out that some want it.

And to reach those inside, we need to have compassion for the
wants and needs of those still trapped in the church.

We can't talk to anyone inside if every other word out of our mouths
is that everything, ABOLUTELY, everything they believe in is total crap.

And its likely that many other things that "ex-scientologists" propose
are questionable too.

People get involved in cults and relationships because the need something.

I'm not quite sure what some "ex-members" are offering.

Pitbull,
Again, this is a Sanctuary from Scientology. If people are here they want out from Scientology. There are other places for them to go on the internet if they have their doubts about Scientology and want to learn more. What I am exclusively talking about, and do not alter this, is that there is not reason to promote Scientology Lite here on this board. This is a sanctuary form Scientology, it is not a debating society nor is it the sideline bench for a person to sit on until he gets back into the game of Scientology. The question remains: "If you are not here to recruit people and sing the praises of Scientology, why are you here, and what can you contribute?"
The question is not "What people might think when they see this board?"

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[Terril park]

Sorry, I don't buy it. If a person believes in the workability of Scientology to the extent that he wishes to be a practitioner of it, he is a Scientologist. You don't have to be a Roman Catholic to be a Christian. You can splinter off from any organized church and still belief in Christianity. This idea that you are not "technically" a Scientologist because you are not in good standing with the Church is a rhetoric trick.
Granted there are people who are at various stages in their departure of Scientology. But if a person is singing the praises of Scientology then why are they here, in a place of sanctuary from Scientology?
That is the question that is being dodged.


The Anabaptist Jacques

The term " Ex-scientology" has a nice ring. However Emma
has posted and referred to this again on the long thread thus:-

----------------------------

What this board is:

A place where ex scientologists and interested general public can get together to discuss various experiences in Scientology.

A place where where ex's and non ex's can mingle and chat and get to know how the other half think and live.
-----------------------------

Thus to say as this is an EX scientology board, scientologists shouldn't come here is in violation of Emma's wishes on the matter as expressed up to now.

There is a commonality though. We all agree the COS is a horrific monster.
We, some of us, do various things about that. The website for those
wishing to exit the SO has my phone no on it as a place to find sanctuary. Those in OSA who can read can also see it. For that matter they too are welcome to santuary if they want it.

 

[acertainratio]

Pitbull,
Again, this is a Sanctuary from Scientology. If people are here they want out from Scientology. There are other places for them to go on the internet if they have their doubts about Scientology and want to learn more. What I am exclusively talking about, and do not alter this, is that there is not reason to promote Scientology Lite here on this board. This is a sanctuary form Scientology, it is not a debating society nor is it the sideline bench for a person to sit on until he gets back into the game of Scientology. The question remains: "If you are not here to recruit people and sing the praises of Scientology, why are you here, and what can you contribute?"
The question is not "What people might think when they see this board?"

The Anabaptist Jacques

There are reasons, but they are the wrong reasons when looked at in the light of the stated purpose of this board.

One of them is to recruit vulnerable people to Scientology Lite, as Jaques so accurately puts it.

Another is to sing the praises of your low - cal Scientology and get free advertising.

Another is to give the FZ a false aura of respectability because it has been tolerated here.

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

The term " Ex-scientology" has a nice ring. However Emma
has posted and referred to this again on the long thread thus:-

----------------------------

What this board is:

A place where ex scientologists and interested general public can get together to discuss various experiences in Scientology.

A place where where ex's and non ex's can mingle and chat and get to know how the other half think and live.
-----------------------------

Thus to say as this is an EX scientology board, scientologists shouldn't come here is in violation of Emma's wishes on the matter as expressed up to now.

There is a commonality though. We all agree the COS is a horrific monster.
We, some of us, do various things about that. The website for those
wishing to exit the SO has my phone no on it as a place to find sanctuary. Those in OSA who can read can also see it. For that matter they too are welcome to santuary if they want it.

You twisted what I have said. I didn't say who could come here or who couldn't come here. I am exclusively talking about promoting Scientology Lite here. The question is this: "If you are not here to recruit people and sing the praises of Scientology, why are you here, and what can you contribute?"

You can dissect each word and look for loopholes. But that is not answering the question.

The question is this: "If you are not here to recruit people and sing the praises of Scientology, why are you here, and what can you contribute?"

Why would you offer to buy around of drinks to everyone at an Alcoholics Annonymous group? Anyone is welcome to come to the AA meeting and discuss things. But Why would you offer to buy around of drinks to everyone at an Alcoholics Annonymous group? What does that say about what one things who would do that?

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[Terril park]

All that is fine my friend but you didn't answer my question:

"If you are not here to recruit people and sing the praises of Scientology, why are you here, and what can you contribute?

The only thing I didn't answer was " What can I contribute."

First I believe it of value that people know they can do " TECH outside COS"

Some have commented it helps them exit COS. This is good. Whether they then go on to do tech outside COS is their affair. I don't go chasing or reging anyone.

Some 30-40 people per month contact me directly or join the various forums whose existence I promote. maybe 10% roughly ask for a tech terminal.
I try to oblige if I can and its not always possible as this is a global area.
The rest I do not follow up less they mail me directly. If they leave forums I don't chase them up.

Its clear that some want the service I provide. In some ways its really only myself providing this service.

Its very hard to track where people come from, but years ago I tried to
track this down. ARS was the best route to the FZ followed by OCMB. I always asked people how they found us. Most just said the internet.
Coming from such places it was of course no problem implanting them.

Havn't considered this for some time, but to use a domain name in a website with trademarked words left one open to legal threat. Happened to me.

This leaves promotion on critical channels as the only only path to
let people know they can get the tech outside COS.

IMO this is helping people.

I'm actually interested in what stats this board has re attracting new members. I've promoted this board a few times on my FZ forum. I think some can benefit from coming here. I've posted a summary of someones story
including being locked in a ships hold on my forum. I met that person.

I also contribute myself. Its hard to say what value that has. I recently
travelled for 3 months in the US meeting fellow FZers I'd only known on the net, and some independants and critics. In the FZ I'm generally well regarded,
although scolded when I go " Loose cannon". I was almost overwhelmed by the love and admiration I recieved from some of the wonderful old
timers I met. I have always tried to resolve quarrels in the FZ regardless of who I was dealing with. Looking for harmony.

I get less love and admiration here.

But here I am. Read my posts or not. Hope they help some.

 

[Pierrot]

Ok, that's cool. But I gather you do not sing the praises of Scientology while you are here. I do have a question. When you say you get Scientology here, is that from what is written here by Freezoners? And if it is, that proves my point. Nobbody should come here for the Scientology. there are other places to go for that. Somebody then, is putting Scientology into a place of sanctuary from Scientolgoy. That is like buying a round of drinks at an Alchohol Annonymous group meeting. What would be someone's intention in doing that?

No, I'm not writing this to dis-prove your point ;-) but "this is not from what is written here by the FZers". If I wish to read about FZ Scn I go and look for the appropriate forum, the internet offers free shopping. I was talking about the collective writing about Scientology on this board from all the participants.

Your AA comparison has its limits. Of course one shouldn't push drinks. But I'd be interested to know what pushed the person to loose control about alcohol in the first place. Not that I'm asking - but freedom to drink or not to drink, and not looking for substitutes, would be my concern.