What's new

TRs and The Ganzfeld Effect

uncover

Gold Meritorious Patron
Science: Co$ TR´s lead to dissociation and hallucinations

Science: Co$ TR´s lead to dissociation and hallucinations

Dissociation and hallucinations in dyads engaged through interpersonal gazing

Highlights
• Interpersonal gazing in dyads of individuals is investigated.
• Tests of dissociation, dysmorphic face perception and strange-face apparitions.
• Dissociative symptoms and face dysmorphia were correlated.
• Strange-face apparitions were non-correlated with dissociation and dysmorphia.
• Strange-face apparitions and dissociative symptoms might be independent processes.

Abstract
Interpersonal gazing in dyads, when the two individuals in the dyad stare at each other in the eyes, is investigated in 20 healthy young individuals at low illumination for 10-min. Results indicate dissociative symptoms, dysmorphic face perceptions, and hallucination-like strange-face apparitions. Dissociative symptoms and face dysmorphia were correlated. Strange-face apparitions were non-correlated with dissociation and dysmorphia. These results indicate that dissociative symptoms and hallucinatory phenomena during interpersonal-gazing under low illumination can involve different processes. Strange-face apparitions may characterize the rebound to “reality” (perceptual reality caused by external stimulus and hallucinatory reality caused by internal input) from a dissociative state induced by sensory deprivation. These phenomena may explain psychodynamic projections of the subject׳s unconscious meanings into the other׳s face. The results indicate that interpersonal gazing in dyads can be an effective tool for studying experimentally-induced dissociative symptoms and hallucinatory-like apparitions.

more:
http://www.psy-journal.com/article/S0165-1781(15)00321-2/abstract

Hallucinations ?
Now I know why the Sea-Orgers have to do TR´s before they go to "clear this planet".


BTW, Happy New Year !
 

JustSheila

Crusader
Re: Science: Co$ TR´s lead to dissociation and hallucinations

Great article, but hoo-weee, a lot of new(er) psychological terms and stuff for me here that I had to find out about before I could really get what the article was saying.

A few basic terms I just learned, so y'all can understand better what this article says (for anyone who didn't already know):

Strange Face Apparitions:
In normal observers gazing at one's own face in the mirror for some minutes, at a low illumination level, triggers the perception of strange faces, a new perceptual illusion that has been named 'strange-face in the mirror'. Subjects see distortions of their own faces, but often they see monsters, archetypical faces, faces of dead relatives, and of animals.
https://www.researchgate.net/public...ror_gazing_at_one's_own_face_in_schizophrenia [accessed Jan 1, 2016].

Face Dismorphia (Dysmorphia):
Body dysmorphic disorder patients see details, not whole face

Some people check their appearance in any mirror, window or computer screen they can find, but not out of vanity. It's because they hate the way they look so much. An obsession with one or more bodily features, normally in the face, indicates a condition called body dysmorphic disorder.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/02/01/body.dysmorphic.disorder/

A Dyad is a group of two, btw.

So the gist of the article is that they put two people across from each other to look/stare into each other's eyes (like TRs) at low illumination. Within ten minutes or less, the subjects showed dissociative symptoms. Together with the dissociative symptoms, the subjects also exhibited extreme focus/obsession with particular facial flaws or characteristics in the one they faced and were no longer taking in the entire face.

They found that when patients saw strange things in the other's face or weird distortions of the other's face ('Strange Face Apparitions') that this was NOT related to dissociation or the extreme (dysmorphic) focus/obsession with facial details, but rather, something that snapped a person back to reality and out of that (dangerously) dissociative state.

Thanks for posting this, Uncover.

I am absolutely amazed at the massive number of hypnotic techniques tangled into everything Scientological, from the very beginning of TRs and continuing throughout.

It's even more amazing that so many came out of it without mental illness, but not so surprising that some did not and continued stuck in their hypnotic mental delusions.

ADDED: For those that don't know, dissociation in Psychology is usually a BAD thing, an indicator of mental illness. These studies are all part of studies dealing with resolving schizophrenia, which is a dissociative mental illness.

In psychology, the term dissociation describes a wide array of experiences from mild detachment from immediate surroundings to more severe detachment from physical and emotional experience. The major characteristic of all dissociative phenomena involves a detachment from reality, rather than a loss of reality as in psychosis.[SUP][1][/SUP][SUP][2][/SUP][SUP][3][/SUP][SUP][4][/SUP]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociation_(psychology)
 
Last edited:

Helena Handbasket

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Science: Co$ TR´s lead to dissociation and hallucinations

When I first started doing TRs I saw a strange face looking at me. For only a few seconds.

I just assumed it was someone from my past, whom I was sort-of remembering. I never did figure out who it was.

I don't consider I was harmed by the experience.

Helena
 

JustSheila

Crusader
Re: Science: Co$ TR´s lead to dissociation and hallucinations

Thanks, Helena.

According to the article and other references, seeing dead people and other sorts of illusions in the other person's face is not a bad thing. It is not dissociative. It is some sort of portraying personal subconscious things on the other person, but when that starts to happen, it also snaps a person back to present time and reality.

The researcher is concluding (doesn't make it fact, it's only a limited study) that the part of your brain that causes the illusions is not related to the part of your brain that causes dissociation. The study demonstrates that focus/obsession with just parts of the other person's face IS related to dissociation, though. Not the illusions like seeing dead people.
 

Leon-2

Patron Meritorious
Re: Science: Co$ TR´s lead to dissociation and hallucinations

What turns it on will turn it off.
 

JustSheila

Crusader
Re: Science: Co$ TR´s lead to dissociation and hallucinations

What turns it on will turn it off.

:eyeroll:

No, Leon. :no:

Please read more carefully. That's completely inappropriate and has nothing to do with the article.

Schizophrenia doesn't 'turn off.' Dissociation doesn't always 'turn off', either. It can be progressive, deepening and worsening.

The illusions aren't related to schizophrenia or dissociation. They are a separate thing. The focus on little things in the other's face IS related to dissociation. That is certainly something to avoid.

The illusions would 'turn off' because they actually are part of a snap back to reality. I thought that was pretty fascinating. The illusions are apparently not harmful but the focus on details in the other's face can apparently be bad.
 

Helena Handbasket

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Science: Co$ TR´s lead to dissociation and hallucinations

I wouldn't mind doing some more TRs right now, especially TR 0.

Helena
 

JustSheila

Crusader
Re: Science: Co$ TR´s lead to dissociation and hallucinations

Knock yourself out.

dead-people.gif
 

arcxcauseblows

Patron Meritorious
Re: Science: Co$ TR´s lead to dissociation and hallucinations

This happens to me when I do trs and it doesn't have to be low light I've had it happen in bright light, I have different apparitions depending on the person, and they change, if I relax it happens if I try I can turn it off and see their real face

It also made me sort of numb and insensitive to the point where I'm shameless and immune to some discussions and things like insults to the point that I would become overly confident and oblivious to any form of self awareness and ignore things I don't want to hear, trains you to be heartless, thoughtless, robotic and unnatural and this is why scientologists are made fun of they become socially awkward, watch Jim Carey in the interview where he makes fun of the glazed over eyes

I've seen trs turn scientologists into numb, stubborn, annoying overly confident and unnaturally intense, careless potty mouths

Watch Brian Culkins video where he says flag staff all talk like truckers, trs is part of the reason they are inhumane buffoons


https://youtu.be/hbZYuOuvyK4

https://youtu.be/R31Ea2FjKhE

I prefer homo sapiens over homo novis, scientologists way of communicating is not better than common decent wogs, wogs aren't bad, scientologists are, backward cult training...

And social veneer as Hubbard calls it as an insult, is known as manners or being polite and its a good thing not bad, he strips away decency, sensitivity and self awareness with trs

Tr3 teaches them to badger people usually over trivial nonsense...

Tr4 is ignored in PR tech, in their pr, osa uses bullbait lol!

Real world pr tech is apologize and make amends, provide a refund and a gift certificate hoping to save the customer, Scientology pr tech is blame the customer, attack the customer, never apologize or make amends/refunds and this makes them a big joke to the world, neurotology LOL
 
Last edited:

JustSheila

Crusader
Re: Science: Co$ TR´s lead to dissociation and hallucinations

I agree. It seems the entire 'EP' of TRs is dissociation from emotions, compassion and the reality of one's own's life and the cherished love of family and friends. 'Scientology eyes' has been a term in use since the 70s to describe that sort of dissociated look, where nothing hurts, nothing has impact. Zombie-ish.

It's a shame this study only went for ten minutes, but I can see why, considering the initial findings.

Nobody I ever knew passed TR0 in just ten minutes. It would be interesting to see if the dissociation is even avoidable at all when TRs go on as long as they do in Scientology. My guess is, probably not, and the repetition of them just deepens the dissociation.
 

Hypatia

Pagan
Re: Science: Co$ TRs lead to dissociation and hallucinations

:eyeroll:

No, Leon. :no:

Please read more carefully. That's completely inappropriate and has nothing to do with the article.

Schizophrenia doesn't 'turn off.' Dissociation doesn't always 'turn off', either. It can be progressive, deepening and worsening.

The illusions aren't related to schizophrenia or dissociation. They are a separate thing. The focus on little things in the other's face IS related to dissociation. That is certainly something to avoid.

The illusions would 'turn off' because they actually are part of a snap back to reality. I thought that was pretty fascinating. The illusions are apparently not harmful but the focus on details in the other's face can apparently be bad.

When Scios say that, they generally mean small or lesser phenomena like blurriness, etc. They aren't the only ones. Elizabeth Gilbert, in Eat, Pray, Love mentions reciting a sutra every morning in an ashram. Hated it, would break out into a fear sweat and I think there were other manifestations. She eventually made herself go back and do it until she traversed whatever the emotional hangup was.

(I've also taken out the apostrophe in the title)
 

uncover

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Science: Co$ TR´s lead to dissociation and hallucinations

What turns it on will turn it off.
So more arsenic will cure arsenic poisoning etc.? How simple. :duh:
No, no, no..... Leon only wanted to explain why he is still on the Hubbardism-trip. Apparently he is hoping that one day he will become able to stop with Hubbards vomit. If he consumes enough of Hubbards vomit, one day the desire will be gone..... "What turns it (= the desire for Hubbards vomit) on, will turn it off.". See ? :coolwink:
 
Last edited:

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Science: Co$ TR´s lead to dissociation and hallucinations

This happens to me when I do trs and it doesn't have to be low light I've had it happen in bright light, I have different apparitions depending on the person, and they change, if I relax it happens if I try I can turn it off and see their real face

It also made me sort of numb and insensitive to the point where I'm shameless and immune to some discussions and things like insults to the point that I would become overly confident and oblivious to any form of self awareness and ignore things I don't want to hear, trains you to be heartless, thoughtless, robotic and unnatural and this is why scientologists are made fun of they become socially awkward, watch Jim Carey in the interview where he makes fun of the glazed over eyes

I've seen trs turn scientologists into numb, stubborn, annoying overly confident and unnaturally intense, careless potty mouths

Watch Brian Culkins video where he says flag staff all talk like truckers, trs is part of the reason they are inhumane buffoons


https://youtu.be/hbZYuOuvyK4

https://youtu.be/R31Ea2FjKhE

I prefer homo sapiens over homo novis, scientologists way of communicating is not better than common decent wogs, wogs aren't bad, scientologists are, backward cult training...

And social veneer as Hubbard calls it as an insult, is known as manners or being polite and its a good thing not bad, he strips away decency, sensitivity and self awareness with trs

Tr3 teaches them to badger people usually over trivial nonsense...

Tr4 is ignored in PR tech, in their pr, osa uses bullbait lol!

Real world pr tech is apologize and make amends, provide a refund and a gift certificate hoping to save the customer, Scientology pr tech is blame the customer, attack the customer, never apologize or make amends/refunds and this makes them a big joke to the world, neurotology LOL

I expect all of us who did TRs to any extent are familiar with the visual distortions. By itself, this is probably harmless if not amusing. However, in combination with external influences any disassociation can make a person vulnerable. At 6:50 in the above video, Brian Culkin describes the reg calling him a "fucking ass hole". I call this the "Chicken" technique. Calling someone a chicken, challenging them to prove their loyalty to, and extent of knowledge of Scientology. If you fail, you aren't just insufficient, you are guilty of willing to let all of humanity sink into the spiritual mud for eternity. Membership in Scientology is an ongoing process of proving that you aren't chicken by aspiring to ever higher levels of training, auditing, volunteering, defending, donating, believing and sacrificing. Scientology is by definition the moral high ground. You are expected to know this so if the reg calls you an ass hole then it is implicit that its only because he cares so much for your and everyone else's salvation and is helping you overcome the self destructive influence of your reactive mind and the degrading suppressive values of non-Scientology society.

I'll venture to say that Ex-Scientologists have analyzed this effect enough to develop an immunity. We could probably do TRs without reverting to mindless drones. But for someone who hasn't been through the organizational meat grinder and consciously assessed the mental techniques, TRs can make them pliable, suggestible, willing to set aside their doubts and critical thinking enough to give ridiculous amounts of money to a reg that calls them an ass hole or to let a recruiter talk them into dedicating their life to the Sea Org in order to save the planet.

As for the vulgarity, I noticed this migrating down lines from senior management around 1979 and the early 80s coincident with DM starting to exert more influence in the CMO. After 3.5 decades it would not surprise me to find that it was pervasive.
 
Last edited:

Leon-2

Patron Meritorious
Re: Science: Co$ TR´s lead to dissociation and hallucinations

:eyeroll:

No, Leon. :no:

Please read more carefully. That's completely inappropriate and has nothing to do with the article.

Schizophrenia doesn't 'turn off.' Dissociation doesn't always 'turn off', either. It can be progressive, deepening and worsening.

The illusions aren't related to schizophrenia or dissociation. They are a separate thing. The focus on little things in the other's face IS related to dissociation. That is certainly something to avoid.

The illusions would 'turn off' because they actually are part of a snap back to reality. I thought that was pretty fascinating. The illusions are apparently not harmful but the focus on details in the other's face can apparently be bad.


Yeah, I'd read this. So what?

What turned it on will turn it off.

That's just the way it is with mental shit. It's no big deal. It's just the way it is.
 

Jump

Operating teatime
Re: Science: Co$ TR´s lead to dissociation and hallucinations



. o O ( mental shit )



 

Operating DB

Truman Show Dropout
Re: Science: Co$ TR´s lead to dissociation and hallucinations

It also made me sort of numb and insensitive to the point where I'm shameless and immune to some discussions and things like insults to the point that I would become overly confident and oblivious to any form of self awareness and ignore things I don't want to hear, trains you to be heartless, thoughtless, robotic and unnatural and this is why scientologists are made fun of they become socially awkward, watch Jim Carey in the interview where he makes fun of the glazed over eyes

I've seen trs turn scientologists into numb, stubborn, annoying overly confident and unnaturally intense, careless potty mouths

Watch Brian Culkins video where he says flag staff all talk like truckers, trs is part of the reason they are inhumane buffoons

I prefer homo sapiens over homo novis, scientologists way of communicating is not better than common decent wogs, wogs aren't bad, scientologists are, backward cult training...

And social veneer as Hubbard calls it as an insult, is known as manners or being polite and its a good thing not bad, he strips away decency, sensitivity and self awareness with trs

Tr3 teaches them to badger people usually over trivial nonsense
...

Tr4 is ignored in PR tech, in their pr, osa uses bullbait lol!

Real world pr tech is apologize and make amends, provide a refund and a gift certificate hoping to save the customer, Scientology pr tech is blame the customer, attack the customer, never apologize or make amends/refunds and this makes them a big joke to the world, neurotology LOL

I agree. It seems the entire 'EP' of TRs is dissociation from emotions, compassion and the reality of one's own's life and the cherished love of family and friends. 'Scientology eyes' has been a term in use since the 70s to describe that sort of dissociated look, where nothing hurts, nothing has impact. Zombie-ish.

Thank you for your observations. I had some new wognitions about the insanity of TRs. The above selected words in red hit home for me. (I was going to say "indicated to me" but that sounds so scientological).

I have way too many lousy memories from doing way too many TRs over the nine years I was in the cult. Can you say OVERRUN?

Just last night I was joking and degrading about TRs with a friend who had been in the cult in the same time frame I was in it. We stared at each other with bugged out eyes and spoke robotically to each other and with Tone 40 acks and such. It wasn't long before we burst out laughing. Try it out some time with an ex-scio friend. You'll be glad you did. lol

I lamented to my friend that what I disliked most about TRO Bullbait was when my coach would crack me up and I knew I had to not react but I WANTED to laugh and crack up because he was so funny and felt so good to laugh. So I was being denied that pleasure. Maybe that's one reason scientologsits are so humorless. It's drilled into them. I feel like I'm "unflat" on those bullbait sessions not because the buttons weren't flattened but because I didn't get to fully laugh out how funny the things were that my coach was presenting me with.

I feel like there could be a book deconstructing and exposing what TRs are really all about. There's been plenty of discussion about them on this board. A culling of all the keen observations into one book would be beneficial.

Even today I still feel like there are some untapped insidious mysteries hidden in the TR's teck that I haven't discovered yet.
 
Last edited:

AngeloV

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Science: Co$ TR´s lead to dissociation and hallucinations

At worst, TRs can cause those reactions stated in the OP.
At best, they are a complete waste of time and provide zero benefits, especially 'communication' benefits as they are touted to do.

I'd rather clean out an overflowing cat litter box then do a TR.

Speaking of which, I better go check....
 

JGB

Patron
Re: Science: Co$ TR´s lead to dissociation and hallucinations

I had no problems with TRs. In fact they were fun to do. When I first did TR 0 my twins face turned into Bugs Bunny wearing glasses! I never laughed so hard in my life. I also went exterior doing OT TR0 & TR0! Plus I have seen so many other people had great wins doing TRs.

It appears people forgot what the TRs were for. To keep the PC in session!
 
Top