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Did Hub have any original, good, ideas?

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
And that plan was most definitely the WRONG plan. The paramilitary angle was deluded, wrong-headed and doomed to failure. All to satisfy Hubbard's massive black-hole-star ego.

If anyone knows how to get in touch with Gordon please let me know.
Ahhhh...

The plan is sensible enough.

I do NOT like the way it was engineered and especially do not like the way it has been executed

As to Hubbard's "massive black-hole-star ego"...

My Master instructs thusly: "Judge not that thou be not judged"

I recommend you consider the timeless wisdom of this saying
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
My Master instructs thusly: "Judge not that thou be not judged"

I recommend you consider the timeless wisdom of this saying
Clearly you're fine with Hubbard being judged, as long as the result is positive.

When asked why Hubbard was not guilty of child abuse for putting children in the chain locker you absolutely passed judgement on him when you replied:
L RON HUBBARD IS NOT FUCKING GUILTY BECAUSE HE'S L RON HUBBARD F'CRISSAKES. HE IS A BRILLIANT ALBEIT ECCENTRIC RESEARCHER WHO PRODUCED A PROFOUND BODY OF WORK AND YOU DON'T RACK HIM UP ON PICAYUNE HORSECRAP; YOU EITHER SWING WITH THE SONOFABITCH OR YOU SHUT THE FUCK UP AND GET THE FUCK OUT OF HIS WAY.
http://www.forum.exscn.net/threads/...to-clearwater-event.44932/page-3#post-1165853
 

Dave B.

Maximus Ultimus Mostimus
Ahhhh...

The plan is sensible enough.

I do NOT like the way it was engineered and especially do not like the way it has been executed

As to Hubbard's "massive black-hole-star ego"...

My Master instructs thusly: "Judge not that thou be not judged"

I recommend you consider the timeless wisdom of this saying

Nope.

His ego would not allow a sensible approach to planetary dissemination. It had to be Elron's lemonade stand, if your lemonade stand did better he'd send his goons to knock over your table and steal your money.

He "flubbed the dub". Failed miserably.

Judging is what people do. We all do, even if we say we do not.
 

RogerB

Crusader
It is also probable that Ron sidestepped responsibility when he developed the OT levels essentially blaming and 'making cause' Body Thetans rather than his own malevolent thinking and behaviours. In this he probably unknowningly or true to form/habit in his sociopathic thinking and habits created another lie.

Just my conjecture based on some of the facts about Hubbard and his written materials and some ideas from real benevolent writings.
The truth was there but there was apparently no one willing to stand up directly for long enough to Hubbard's intense mania.

Thanks Rog and Veda
Yes, Choicie . . .

The fact is, if Hubbard had been honest, honorable and responsible for his "connections" and the outcomes of his actions . . . he would have come up with a very different handling for what he referred to as BTs.

Had Hubbard been responsible and caring, the more correct response to "spiritual connections" would have been to have worked to help restore the Beings to being in an harmonious alignment (as Alan Walter did with his R/Ds) . . . but NO . . . Hubbard saw everyone and everything as an enemy, bad, wrong, evil and as having to be lied about and subjugated . . . and he used his position of ultimate power over the organization he created to do so. If you posed any kind of threat to Hubbard and his ego such as by developing some good tech he could steal, you got axed! If you pointed out an error by him, you got axed!
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
Yes, Choicie . . .

The fact is, if Hubbard had been honest, honorable and responsible for his "connections" and the outcomes of his actions . . . he would have come up with a very different handling for what he referred to as BTs.

Had Hubbard been responsible and caring, the more correct response to "spiritual connections" would have been to have worked to help restore the Beings to being in an harmonious alignment (as Alan Walter did with his R/Ds) . . . but NO . . . Hubbard saw everyone and everything as an enemy, bad, wrong, evil and as having to be lied about and subjugated . . . and he used his position of ultimate power over the organization he created to do so. If you posed any kind of threat to Hubbard and his ego such as by developing some good tech he could steal, you got axed! If you pointed out an error by him, you got axed!

And yet ... none of that was apparently enough to stop Alan Walter (and you) from stealing everything he did ... slightly rejigging it, renaming it and flogging it under a new name.

If your version of scientology is so much 'better' than the original how come it sank so rapidly to the bottom of a murky pond?



:confused:
 

George Layton

Silver Meritorious Patron
And yet ... none of that was apparently enough to stop Alan Walter (and you) from stealing everything he did ... slightly rejigging it, renaming it and flogging it under a new name.

If your version of scientology is so much 'better' than the original how come it sank so rapidly to the bottom of a murky pond?



:confused:
In some folks eyes if you can't charge people for it, it ain't TRULY spiritual.
 

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
Clearly you're fine with Hubbard being judged, as long as the result is positive.

When asked why Hubbard was not guilty of child abuse for putting children in the chain locker you absolutely passed judgement on him when you replied:
Pitsy, puh-leeeeze!

If I wanted a positive judgement on that randy old goat I wouldn't be hanging around ESMB

I DON"T give him a positive judgement; I just don't judge him. Indeed someone who gives a clearcut unambiguous statement AGAINST the Christhood of Jesus is a somewhat scary guy in my book

I DO stand by what I laid out in capital letters; he was a very dynamic honcho; the A ticket players either swing with the honcho or get the fuck out of his way and both when in and when out I wanted to stay out his way

He will remain controversial in perpetuity...

But he won't be forgotten.

You want to deny his great influence. I don't know how you're going to invalidate this one but you probably will

One of Hubbard's immense influences on our society is he created a publishing genre with DMSMH; It was his plow that broke the ground where the works of Erich Fromm, Eric Berne, Rollo May et al germinated and grew
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
Pitsy, puh-leeeeze!

If I wanted a positive judgement on that randy old goat I wouldn't be hanging around ESMB

I DON"T give him a positive judgement; I just don't judge him. Indeed someone who gives a clearcut unambiguous statement AGAINST the Christhood of Jesus is a somewhat scary guy in my book

I DO stand by what I laid out in capital letters; he was a very dynamic honcho; the A ticket players either swing with the honcho or get the fuck out of his way and both when in and when out I wanted to stay out his way

He will remain controversial in perpetuity...

But he won't be forgotten.

You want to deny his great influence. I don't know how you're going to invalidate this one but you probably will

One of Hubbard's immense influences on our society is he created a publishing genre with DMSMH; It was his plow that broke the ground where the works of Erich Fromm, Eric Berne, Rollo May et al germinated and grew

All 3 of those authors were published before 1950 on matters of the mind.

There already existed a self-help genre...Think and Grow Rich is an example.
 

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
They were published but were those academic works or for the general public?

Are there any popular psychology works pre-1950 with anything resembling the sales or impact of DMSMH

I LOVE this board!!!

I make blind statements and get jumped on with hard data!

HH is da BEST and Roger is even better but you are ALL da best...

Thank you for being you and letting it show...


I might disappear for a while, I'm off to the VA hospital and they might keep in bed a while
 

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
But the original question...

Hubbard's good ideas?

There's plenty.

Differentiate between analytic thinking in differences and similarities and reactive thinking in identities.

TR's 0-4

The Comm Cycle

CCH's 1-4

The Itsa maker line

The book Self Analysis

The Chart of Human Evaluation

Any other brave soul want to step down into the ESMB stoning pit and name some more?
 

Bill

Gold Meritorious Patron
But the original question...

Hubbard's good ideas?

There's plenty.

Differentiate between analytic thinking in differences and similarities and reactive thinking in identities.

TR's 0-4

The Comm Cycle

CCH's 1-4

The Itsa maker line

The book Self Analysis

The Chart of Human Evaluation

Any other brave soul want to step down into the ESMB stoning pit and name some more?
It has been almost 70 years since Hubbard wrote his "miraculous breakthrough" Dianetics. It has been over 30 years since Hubbard died. Look around. The ONLY thing Hubbard is known for, when he is known at all, is that he created a wacky UFO cult that a lot of people have escaped from. He might be remembered for that, but I doubt that opprobrium will last after Scientology itself has gone.

The rest of his "tech"? Seriously, none of it was ever important or known of by 99.99999999999999999% of the world. As I said before, nothing Hubbard said is of any importance -- and the rest of the world agrees.
 
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Tanchi

Patron with Honors
It has been almost 70 years since Hubbard wrote his "miraculous breakthrough" Dianetics. It has been over 30 years since Hubbard died. Look around. The ONLY thing Hubbard is known for, when he is known at all, is that he created a wacky UFO cult that a lot of people have escaped from. He might be remembered for that, but I doubt that opprobrium will last after Scientology itself has gone.

The rest of his "tech"? Seriously, was never important or known of by 99.99999999999999999% of the world. As I said before, nothing Hubbard said is of any importance -- and the rest of the world agrees.
Oh, we'll remember his smile, his 1 not 3 marriages!
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
I LOVE this board!!!

I make blind statements and get jumped on with hard data!
Popular psychology and the self-help genre predate the publication of DMSMH by decades.

But you've never let the facts get in the way of a good historical revisionist post. Why start now?
 
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Dave B.

Maximus Ultimus Mostimus
But the original question...

Hubbard's good ideas?

There's plenty.

Differentiate between analytic thinking in differences and similarities and reactive thinking in identities.

TR's 0-4

The Comm Cycle

CCH's 1-4

The Itsa maker line

The book Self Analysis

The Chart of Human Evaluation

Any other brave soul want to step down into the ESMB stoning pit and name some more?

You SURE about all those? Did you read the Sole Source Myth thread?
 

Veda

Sponsor
1903
asamanthinkethflat.jpg



____________________​


Was Hubbard's "Be three feet back of your head" - originally, the first step to additional actions - meant to induce a sense of vertigo, in the direction of making the person more mentally malleable and suggestible?


This is the complete quote from John Symonds and Kenneth Grant, who were editors of some of Aleister Crowley's writings, reffering to a 1911 series of "processes" published in Crowley's ten volume 'Equinox':

"It ('Batra', etc.) deals with the magical practice of expanding consciousness to the stars and the planets. The word 'Batrachophrenoboocosmomachia' is made up of the Greek words for Frog Mind Ox World Battle, and is a play on the title of the Homeric mock epic, the 'Batrachophrenoboocosmomachia' or 'Battle of the Frogs and Mice'. The idea behind the use of this barbarous name, 'Batra', etc. - that is, in pronunciation or vibration - is that it is supposed to create a sense of vertigo in which the mind is freed from its ordinary bounds. Consciousness - so the theory goes - is exalted to infinity by this method."​

Warning: The "sense of vertigo" http://www.thefreedictionary.com/vertigo can also make the person vulnerable to manipulation, and more easily influenced and controllable.

Was Hubbard inducing a sense of "vertigo" with the "Be three feet back of your head" command?

The purpose of "Be three feet back of your head" would, then, not so much to place persons three feet back of their heads, but to have them agree that such a thing could be done. This places the person outside the confines of ordinary reality and is a signal to the operator that the person is open to suggestion.


2079435_deeper-still_u4otpkuoohegc34cxym6cgqbe3ncurxrbvj6lwuht2ya6mzmafma_610x457.jpg


Excerpt from the 1911 'Batra' (which inspired Hubbard's "Route One").

(Notice that it contains actions which resemble what later were Scientology processes, such as spanning attention and mock ups, and even cautions about overrun.)

0. Let the Practicus [student] study the textbooks of astronomy, travel if need be to a place where the sun and stars are visible, and observe the heavens with the best telescopes to which he may have access.
1. Now, since the figures will leave no distinct impression with any precision upon his mind, let him begin practice A.
...A. Let the praticus be seated before a small table, and let an unknown number of small objects be thrown by the chela [teacher or trainer] from time to time upon the table, and by that chela hastily gathered up.
...Let the practicus declare at a glance, and the chela confirm by his count, the number of such objects...
...The quickness of the chela in gathering up is expected to increase with time... Care must be taken to detect the first symptom of fatigue, and to stop, if possible, even before it threatens. The practiced psychologist learns to recognize even minute hesitations that mark the forcing of attention.
2. Alternating with the above, let the practicus begin the practice B.
...B. It is assumed that he has thoroughly conquered the elementary difficulties of Dharana [concentration], and is able to prevent mental pictures from altering shape, size, and color against his will.
....Seated in the open air, let him endeavor to form a complete mental picture of himself and his immediate surroundings. It is important the he should be in the center of such a picture, and be able to look freely in all directions. The finished picture should be a complete consciousness of the whole, fixed, clear, and definite.
...Let him gradually add to the picture by including objects more and more distant, until he has an image of the whole field of vision.
...He will probably find that it is very difficult to increase the apparent size of the picture as he proceeds, and it should be his most earnest endeavor to do so. He should seek in particular to appreciate distances...
3. These practices A and B accomplished, and his studies in astronomy, let him attempt practice C.
...C. Let the practicus form a mental picture of the Earth, in particular by striving to realize the size in comparison with himself, and let him not be content until by assiduity he has well succeeded. Let him add the moon, keeping well in mind the relative sizes of, and distances between, the planet and its satellite.
...He will probably find the final trick of the mind to be a constant disappearance of the image, and the appearance upon a small scale. This trick he must outwit by constancy of endeavor.
...He will then add in turn Venus, Mars, Mercury, and the Sun. It is permissible at this stage to change the point of view to the center of the sun, and to do so may add stability...
...And thus, gathering one star after another, let his contemplation become vast as the heaven, in space and time, ever aspiring to the perception of the body of Nuit, yea the Body of Nuit [Infinity].


_________​


A little more background known to Hubbard.

In 1937 a book titled, 'The Middle Pillar' by Israel Regardie (a student of Crowley for a time) was published.

Wrote Regardie:

[Psycho-therapeutic] Analysis is the logical precursor of spiritual attainment and Magical experiment... Not until the mind and the emotional system have been cleansed and unified by the cathartic process... can the full spiritual benefits of magical work be reflected into the mind of man.
...We should remember the parables of the archaic philosophical religions whose fundamental tenet was that within man was a spirit, a dynamic center of consciousness which, because of its contact and association with matter, had been plunged into a profound sleep, a kind of somnambulism...
By endeavoring to extend the horizon of consciousness, to enlarge the field of awareness so as to embrace what previously was unconscious, is obviously a logical method. To become aware of all our actions, our thoughts and emotions and unsuspected motives, to regard them in their true light as actually they are and not as we would like them to be or as we would wish an onlooker to perceive them. It requires, to take this step, an extraordinary degree of honesty and courage... The more of this suppressed and forgotten material stored in this at one time unknown or dormant side of our nature that can be raised to the clear light of day, by exactly so much do we awake from the inert stupor into which we have in the past been plunged

Regardie would likely have never imagined that ideas such as these would have been merged with malevolent mind control.
_____________________


1922
9781602061156_p0_v1_s260x420.jpg
 
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TomKat

Patron Meritorious
Hubbard was one of the most original thinkers of the 20th century, and had an original take on nearly every subject he wrote about. He did not exist in a vacuum, so his ideas were often launched by something someone else wrote or said. Everyone would have been better off if he'd just stuck to speaking and writing books rather than launching a religion, like a Manly P Hall maybe.
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
Hubbard was one of the most original thinkers of the 20th century, and had an original take on nearly every subject he wrote about. He did not exist in a vacuum, so his ideas were often launched by something someone else wrote or said. Everyone would have been better off if he'd just stuck to speaking and writing books rather than launching a religion, like a Manly P Hall maybe.
I agree ... because no matter how it's prettied up by his supporters he was a mentally unstable individual (a documented fact) with delusions of grandeur ... both before he wrote DMSMH (which was the real start of his campaign to save the world ... make as much money for himself as he could) throughout his life and right up until the day he died (also a documented fact)

He was cunning and he was clever, and he was certainly an 'original thinker' but he was also as mad as a hatter from start to finish.

Completely bonkers.

Had we known then what we know now (about hubbard) things would have been very different.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Hubbard was one of the most original thinkers of the 20th century, and had an original take on nearly every subject he wrote about. He did not exist in a vacuum, so his ideas were often launched by something someone else wrote or said. Everyone would have been better off if he'd just stuck to speaking and writing books rather than launching a religion, like a Manly P Hall maybe.
Unfortunately, Hubbard needed to start a dishonest and ruthless cultic organization to "smash his name into history."
 
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