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Out of Body with perception? Still like the idea?

HelluvaHoax!

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I am neutral on the subject of "exteriorization", the same as I am on many metaphysical and "cosmic" phenomena (UFOs, levitation, ESP, past lives, telepathy, et al). I am neither inclined to believe nor disbelieve any of it, simply because there is too little evidence to draw conclusions.

That's entirely different than my personal preference. If I had a choice, I think life would be more interesting IF some of those things were true. Who wouldn't like to sit down the morning newspaper (or favorite news website) and a fresh cup of coffee and read a headline and color photographs that screams:

ALIENS LAND ON WHITE HOUSE LAWN!!!
Why would that not be fun? LOL

Now, I know this thread is about "exteriorization" and so let's go there. . .

DISCLAIMER: I know nothing more (or less) than any scientist, metaphysical scholar, religious leader, cult guru, saint, messenger, messiah or homeless hobo when it comes to the subject of out-of-body experiences.

Yeah, it's my belief that nobody knows anything more than anyone else about it.


Now this is where it gets rather interesting because like many who have posted here, I too have had "experiences" that might have had something to do with exteriorization. None in Scientology, but not through any lack of effort or commitment. But, when I was 5-8 years old, sometimes when I was sent to bed for nighty-night, I lay in bed (fully awake) and "IT" would start to happen.

"IT" was the most indescribably delicious feeling that my head (or "spirit-self") was growing larger, as if my head space now included the pillow and much more than my meager mest-meat skull was entitled to. I absolutely marveled at and loved that sensation, although I had absolutely no idea what it was. It felt like I was "expanding" out in some euphoric metaphysical way. It never even occurred to me to wonder "WTF" was happening. Little kids don't worry about such things. Imagine a brightly colored clown suddenly entering a 4 year old's birthday party with music playing and handing out ice cream cones---the kids are LOVING IT too much to stop and "analyze" or "question" why the hilarious clown is doing all this, where he comes from, who is paying him and other scientific explanations as to why he appeared at this particular birthday party.

Okay, that's it. "SOMETHING" happened.

I could pontificate and speculate and authoritatively declare what happened. But I don't know.

Some could easily (and understandably) attribute this kind of joyous "mind expanding" (literally, it felt) experience to many things. Well, any of those things COULD be a "logical" and satisfying explanation. What about an adult who experienced this kind of ecstatic physio-spiritual phenomenon, how might they have concluded?

--- Jesus came to me, I could feel his presence!
--- A Guardian Angel came to me, to watch over and protect me and speak to me.
--- My dearly departed husband contacted me from the other side.
--- Aliens were messing with me!
--- Some kind of super-secret CIA electronic wavelengths were trying to take over my mind!
--- God was speaking to me in answer to my prayer to show himself and let me know he is real.

Well, the list of what it "COULD" be is rather limitless, just do a 10 second search on Google or Amazon and you'll come up with MILLIONS of books that have the secret explanation that unlocks this mystery!

Now we come to what I consider the "punchline" to the joke. . . .

What about "dreams" as another plausible explanation?

Here we go, get your tomatoes ready to throw, because a lot of people might hate this particular buzz-killing explanation, LOL.

A couple nights ago I woke up suddenly from the most astonishingly startling nightmare which was I dare say so far beyond any special effects movie I have ever seen, that any comparison fades and fails. I won't go into an explanation (because I think people making you listen to their dreams is just about the dreariest drudgery and sadism possible, lol). I'll just say that the colors and forms and spectacular VISUALS I experienced in that short dream were so vivid and shocking and ENTIRELY UNLIKE ANYTHING I HAD EVER SEEN BEFORE.

When I woke up that heart pounding moment, it took a while to calm my mind and nerves. It was that disturbing. I thought about it later that morning and really wondered WHERE THE HELL all those wild shapes and colors came from, since I had never seen anything like it before. It was so wildly articulated and perfectly realized, like ultra sophisticated and dazzling computer generated graphics from software that won't even be developed for another 20 years. I know, I'm rambling.

The point here that all that wild visual stuff was in my dream. It got there somehow. I didn't put it there. I never saw anything like it. I suppose one could wonder if it was a "past life" memory. I suppose one could assume it's "imagination". I don't know what it was but it scared the living hell out of me. Maybe i had a dream that terrorizing a couple times in my life.

THE PUNCHLINE REVEALED (finally and quite mercifully if anyone is still reading this manifesto, lol): What does all this have to do with exteiorization? Maybe nothing. Maybe everything. What if the experiences people call OOBE or "exterior" are simply the mind's imaginations, not more or no less than happen in a dream? Is there some rule that one's mind cannot actively dream while one is awake? I never read that rule.

The mind can create sensational ideas, feelings, emotions, fears, joys or any element of human experience. Hey, I have dreamt on several occasions that I fell madly in love with someone and it was every bit as real and perhaps a lot better than real life (i.e. when I woke up I didn't have to give the house and all the real estate to the imaginary person i fell in love with during that dream).

What if exterior is just an imaginative state? What if nobody "went out" or saw anything. What if the mind saw it? Hey in my wildly crazed special effects nightmare, I saw it with "my own eyes". Except my eyes were closed, right?

I don't assert that exterior doesn't happen. But I'd include "daydreaming" phenomena as just as plausible an explanation as anything else.

At this point I am ending this technical briefing. You are instructed to rise, face and begin to applaud the wall portrait of whichever explanation of exterior you hold dearest.

.
 
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Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
.
If I had a choice, I think life would be more interesting IF some of those things were true. Who wouldn't like to sit down the morning newspaper (or favorite news website) and a fresh cup of coffee and read a headline and color photographs that screams:

ALIENS LAND ON WHITE HOUSE LAWN!!!
Why would that not be fun? LOL



I read those kind of headlines all the time!

You must just be reading the wrong newspapers. :duh:


alien.jpg
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
The mind can create sensational ideas, feelings, emotions, fears, joys or any element of human experience.
What if exterior is just an imaginative state? What if nobody "went out" or saw anything. What if the mind saw it?
After over 25,000 posts, I think you've voiced the EP of the level.

Here's your honorary celebratory medallion. :coolwink:

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ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
. . .
Footnote: I've always thought that a person's imagination is the most powerful and
unlimited capability of the mind. Some having more imaginative skills than others
obviously. One's imagination in nearly infinitely endless (until one gets writer's block
again). Perhaps the most wonderful near-magical capability a person has.

I'll admit my imagination and creative visualization became extraordinarily good doing
the bridge for a number of years. This is just something I observed. Have to give credit
where credit is due.

One could conclude that the whole subject of Scientology is one of drilling, improving
and working with the imagination. It did help me create a more ideal personal world or
"mental universe" to live within and permitted me to "ignore utterly" many things I
objected to in the so-called real world, as well as the bubble-world of Scientology.

You just can't get totally carried away with all this "living in own world" stuff. Judicious
amount applied is best, otherwise things can get rather wacky.
:shrug:
 
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I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
. . .
Footnote: I've always thought that a person's imagination is the most powerful and
unlimited capability of the mind. Some having more imaginative skills than others
obviously. One's imagination in nearly infinitely endless (until one gets writer's block
again). Perhaps the most wonderful near-magical capability a person has.

I'll admit my imagination and creative visualization became extraordinarily good doing
the bridge for a number of years. This is just something I observed. Have to give credit
where credit is due.

One could conclude that the whole subject of Scientology is one of drilling, improving
and working with the imagination. It did help me create a more ideal personal world or
"mental universe" to live within and permitted me to "ignore utterly" many things I
objected to in the so-called real world, as well as the bubble-world of Scientology.

You just can't get totally carried away with all this "living in own world" stuff. Judicious
amount applied is best, otherwise things can get rather wacky. :shrug:

Thanks ... I really like both your posts on this thread, they are very honest and very thought provoking.
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
. . .
Footnote: I've always thought that a person's imagination is the most powerful and
unlimited capability of the mind. Some having more imaginative skills than others
obviously. One's imagination in nearly infinitely endless (until one gets writer's block
again). Perhaps the most wonderful near-magical capability a person has.

I'll admit my imagination and creative visualization became extraordinarily good doing
the bridge for a number of years. This is just something I observed. Have to give credit
where credit is due.

One could conclude that the whole subject of Scientology is one of drilling, improving
and working with the imagination. It did help me create a more ideal personal world or
"mental universe" to live within and permitted me to "ignore utterly" many things I
objected to in the so-called real world, as well as the bubble-world of Scientology.

You just can't get totally carried away with all this "living in own world" stuff. Judicious
amount applied is best, otherwise things can get rather wacky.
:shrug:
Good you got something out of it.

But can you knock off a hat at fifty yards? :unsure::cool:
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Good you got something out of it.

But can you knock off a hat at fifty yards? :unsure::cool:

After over 25,000 posts, I think you've voiced the EP of the level.

Here's your honorary celebratory medallion. :coolwink:

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:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:


DAMN, I crossed the Bridge? LOL

OMG, people are applauding?!

SHIT, I must have just attested or somethin'!

HOLYHELL, they're standing all round me waiting for me to tell my WIN?!



HELLUVAHOAX!
Thank you for that validation and flow of power, I can fee
all the theta from you big beings. Well, let me first say that
I got more gains from this level than from all the previous Grade
Chart actions combined! I have blown more charge than all the
Gorilla Goal Implants aggregated, times the exponential power of
unprecedented orders of magnitude! My god powers are now back
and I am an omniscient, omnipotent, OT! Now that I have completed
this level I want to say with total certainty that I have total certainty
that I will always have total certainty about everything everywhere
for eternity. I now know with total certainty that I will never become
the adverse effect of uncertainty again, of that I am totally certain!
Certainly, you can be certain the Bridge is the road to Total Certainty.
I'd like to take this moment to acknowledge and give my eternal
gratitude to the Source of my miraculous OT wins and powers,
let's all give a huge round of applause to my imagination!!

.
 

Xenu Xenu Xenu

Patron Meritorious
I had an out of body experience with ''full perception'' in the cult. It was during TR0. It was pretty cool.

It convinced me further of the greatness of Scientology. I don't think anybody at the org believed me but they sure were polite and acknowledged my awesome win with a smile and an ''ack''.

Looking back, I now realize that I had a hallucination.

I am sure being in the cult set me up for that as well. In other words, my heart and mind were already prepared for such an occurrence.

Hallucinations were something that the late Oliver Sacks knew something about.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinations_(book)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Sacks
 
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JustSheila

Crusader
I had an out of body experience with ''full perception'' in the cult. It was during TR0. It was pretty cool.

It convinced me further of the greatness of Scientology. I don't think anybody at the org believed me but they sure were polite and acknowledged my awesome win with a smile and an ''ack''.

Looking back, I now realize that I had a hallucination.

I am sure being in the cult set me up for that as well. In other words, my heart and mind were already prepared for such an occurrence.

Hallucinations were something that the late Oliver Sacks knew something about.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinations_(book)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Sacks
Thanks for the tip on Oliver Sacks. I just read the wikipedia bio. He had a fascinating life and background. Just about his entire family were doctors and surgeons, but he also went through a great deal of trauma and abuse as a child through WW2 and his personal education in biology, medicine, chemistry and neurology is extensive. He's an interesting sort of thinker, a writer and a poet besides, and I think he would have a lot of great insights. I'll check out some of his writings.
 

RogerB

Crusader
OK, Sheila . . . . Oliver Sachs did a wonderful interview as linked below:

A Glorious Accident (1 of 7) Oliver Sacks on migraine

A Glorious Accident is a seven part interview of noted way-out thinking scientists (including my hero Rupert Sheldrake)
It was filmed in Holland, and showed on the BBC and here on PBS in the US.


An interview with the British neurologist Oliver Sacks. One of his most famous books is Awakenings (1973) about people that suffer from the economo disease, a sleeping disorder. The interview is about his patients, his treatments, research and migraine, what he suffered from himself. In the Dutch television show A Glorious Accident (1993) six scientists talk about their visions on their work and the world. Journalist Wim Kayzer asks them: how far did you come in your understanding of our thoughts an actions? What did science really bring us at the end of the 20th century: knowledge or also understanding? Order the dvd-box of A Glorious Accident here: http://winkel.vpro.nl/een-schitterend...
 

Helena Handbasket

Gold Meritorious Patron
I do believe exteriorization (not to mention the other stuff) is possible, I just can't do it. I don't even care about perception, and I don't want to hear about havingness. I just want to exteriorize.

I also know others who claim they can, but when I ask them to demonstrate it, say "I don't do parlor tricks". This tends to make me believe they can't.


However, I have a hypothesis: that those who can will lose that ability if they misuse it -- meaning, if they do, and the people around them generally disapprove, or if they know they are "breaking the rules", they will block themselves from using it, to the point where they can't.

Having worshipers has the opposite effect -- so many people want the worshipped one to perform miracles, that the ability is enhanced, not inhibited. So if you are going to be a God, gather as many active worshippers around you as you can.

Either that, or I have really gone around the bend this time.

Helena
 

RogerB

Crusader
Well Helena, there are two aspects to "exteriorization" . . .

Some folks say they do it as a located or contained in size spiritual presence located separate or external to the body, like being up at the ceiling and looking down on the body . . .

The other, and cleaner, way of it is to recognize you are actually larger than the body and hence naturally outside of it with the body located within you. :) Hence, with this scenario, one can simply view whatever one is in contact with where ever it is. :D
 

JustSheila

Crusader
Well Helena, there are two aspects to "exteriorization" . . .

Some folks say they do it as a located or contained in size spiritual presence located separate or external to the body, like being up at the ceiling and looking down on the body . . .

The other, and cleaner, way of it is to recognize you are actually larger than the body and hence naturally outside of it with the body located within you. :) Hence, with this scenario, one can simply view whatever one is in contact with where ever it is. :D
I like this second viewpoint. :yes: It corresponds better with Physics and Biology with the way matter and energy respond and react, condensing, dispersing, interacting and exchanging.

Neurons are a special type of cell with the sole purpose of transferring information around the body. Neurons are similar to other cells in that they have a cell body with a nucleus and organelles. However, they have a few extra features which allow them to be fantastic at transferring action potentials:
dendrites: receive signals from neighboring neurons (like a radio antenna)

axon: transmit signals over a distance (like telephone wires)
axon terminal: transmit signals to other neuron dendrites or tissues (like a radio transmitter)

https://www.khanacademy.org/test-pr...ion-potentials-the-creation-of-a-brain-signal

WHAT IF

We're like really huge neurons, all chemically connected but also spiritually connected, transferring signals and capable of moving along with those signal impulses or even jumping them from one point to another?

What if there is a network of signal points at our disposal that is as huge as all potential radio, electromagnetic or other impulses?

Fun, sci-fi ideas.
 

RogerB

Crusader
I like this second viewpoint. :yes: It corresponds better with Physics and Biology with the way matter and energy respond and react, condensing, dispersing, interacting and exchanging.

Neurons are a special type of cell with the sole purpose of transferring information around the body. Neurons are similar to other cells in that they have a cell body with a nucleus and organelles. However, they have a few extra features which allow them to be fantastic at transferring action potentials:
dendrites: receive signals from neighboring neurons (like a radio antenna)
axon: transmit signals over a distance (like telephone wires)
axon terminal: transmit signals to other neuron dendrites or tissues (like a radio transmitter)


https://www.khanacademy.org/test-pr...ion-potentials-the-creation-of-a-brain-signal

WHAT IF

We're like really huge neurons, all chemically connected but also spiritually connected, transferring signals and capable of moving along with those signal impulses or even jumping them from one point to another?

What if there is a network of signal points at our disposal that is as huge as all potential radio, electromagnetic or other impulses?

Fun, sci-fi ideas.
"Frankly, My Dear," I very much DO give a damn on this subject:D (To paraphrase another good looking guy)

It happens I and all those I work with on these issues happen to have a reverse view of what you posit above:cool:

We spiritual Beings/Presences do not and have not followed the examples or patterns of the physical universe . . . quite the reverse: the Physical Universe and the bodily constructs we Beings use to interface with the physical universe are actually patterned after particular earlier spiritual patterns of spiritual Life-Force and energy forms.

As spiritual Presences we existed long, long before the physical universe was brought about.
 

Voodoo

Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow
WHAT IF

We're like really huge neurons, all chemically connected but also spiritually connected, transferring signals and capable of moving along with those signal impulses or even jumping them from one point to another?

What if there is a network of signal points at our disposal that is as huge as all potential radio, electromagnetic or other impulses?

Fun, sci-fi ideas.
You're one helluva thinker, you know that? That is brilliant.
 

freethinker

Sponsor
I read those kind of headlines all the time!

You must just be reading the wrong newspapers. :duh:


View attachment 15293
Oh look! this is serious, she rolled up her sleeves! I always knew she was behind the space alien invasion and has been tipping them off with her open source Blackberry and home, free access to anyone, network.

Ya gotta watch for the sleeves. When there up and rolled tight, things will happen, and not what you expect.

You found it Type four. This is the incriminating and damning photograph that has been sought for decades and it was hiding in plain sight where no one would look for it, the Weekly News. Damn you're good!
 

JustSheila

Crusader
You're one helluva thinker, you know that? That is brilliant.
:bighug: Aww! You actually GOT that. I go off on tangents sometimes and don't always make a lot of sense to myself the next day. :redface: I think too much, but hell, it's fun.

But no really, I like the whole neuron pattern as a an energy pattern for living things, maybe even a spiritual pattern. It would explain a lot.

"Frankly, My Dear," I very much DO give a damn on this subject:D (To paraphrase another good looking guy)

It happens I and all those I work with on these issues happen to have a reverse view of what you posit above:cool:

We spiritual Beings/Presences do not and have not followed the examples or patterns of the physical universe . . . quite the reverse: the Physical Universe and the bodily constructs we Beings use to interface with the physical universe are actually patterned after particular earlier spiritual patterns of spiritual Life-Force and energy forms.

As spiritual Presences we existed long, long before the physical universe was brought about.
Well shoot, Roger, don't be such a fussy-wussy over the little stuff. Patterns are patterns and part of living. They may or may not be part of existing outside of life, who knows? I'm talking about now. I don't know what happens when my life here is over and neither does anyone else.
 

RogerB

Crusader
Well shoot, Roger, don't be such a fussy-wussy over the little stuff. Patterns are patterns and part of living. They may or may not be part of existing outside of life, who knows? I'm talking about now. I don't know what happens when my life here is over and neither does anyone else.
:D Ummm, actually, I'm being rather very specific . . . and I am talking specifically about NOW, and how it came to be here now. And, as I noted, the patterns and forms of spiritual Life-Force I mentioned are and were VERY MUCH within us as Life, and were so before the development of the physical universe.

Although, I do note some of science boffins researching these things in university research establishments are somewhat hung up on "how come we (you and me) were created by the mechanical physical universe" . . . that is actually the wrong question. The correct question is: "How come and by what means was/has the physical universe been created by us?"



/
 
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