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MainStream Society's Humiliation of Minority Spiritual and Religious Pursuits

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Yeah, no. You don't back up what you are claiming with any valid facts, just your biased opinion of what you imagine Leah meant. Leah wasn't saying anything about what "Scientologists believe" but what Hubbard actually wrote but you ignore that and imagine what Leah must have been hinting.

You create this imaginary cult you call "anti-Scientology cult" with no facts. Where is this group? How many members does this group have? I haven't seen the group. Where do they meet? You are the only one who thinks there is this "anti-Scientology cult". Talk about a bubble of your own creation.

You love to insult people you don't know and have never met claiming "you've gotten used to a bubble world" BASED ON WHAT? You know nothing yet you love to insult me and others here.

You come off as an insulting, ignorant, abusive, deluded cultist. But I don't know you so I won't assume that's what you really are like.
OK Bill. Listen.

I've always had a lot of respect for you.

When I say Leah told the Hollywood Reporter "They believe that"

This is why I make that claim:

They believe a 7-year-old girl should not shudder at being passionately kissed. That's in Dianetics," she says, referencing L. Ron Hubbard's 1950 book that establishes core tenets.
As you can see, I said she said "they believe that", because that's what she said.

I have never said there is an Anti-Scientology Cult. I said that there is tribalism in both Scientology and Anti-scientology, and in both democrats and republicans, and Buddhists and Christians too.

Can you see how that is different than saying "Anti-Scientology Cult"?

Anti-Scientology Cult is a stupid term because the word 'cult' is stupid. It is as stupid as the word 'brainwashing'.

When I say tribalism, I mean this:

 
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Bill

Gold Meritorious Patron
OK Bill. Listen.

I've always had a lot of respect for you.

When I say Leah told the Hollywood Reporter "They believe that"

This is why I make that claim:

As you can see, I said she said "they believe that", because that's what she said.

I have never said there is an Anti-Scientology Cult. I said that there is tribalism in both Scientology and Anti-scientology, and in both democrats and republicans, and Buddhists and Christians too.

Can you see how that is different than saying "Anti-Scientology Cult"?

Anti-Scientology Cult is a stupid term because the word 'cult' is stupid. It is as stupid as the word 'brainwashing'.

When I say tribalism, I mean this:
:duh: And you said
Sorry. I was a Scientologist for 16 years. I never believed in pedophilia.

This is false.
So Leah, quoting Hubbard saying "They believe a 7-year-old girl should not shudder at being passionately kissed. That's in Dianetics." is identical to saying that all Scientologists "believe in pedophilia". Are you aware, in any way, that these two things are NOT the same? One statement is a true statement of what Hubbard said in DMSMH and one is your idea of what Leah might have meant but never said.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
:duh: And you said

So Leah, quoting Hubbard saying "They believe a 7-year-old girl should not shudder at being passionately kissed. That's in Dianetics." is identical to saying that all Scientologists "believe in pedophilia". Are you aware, in any way, that these two things are NOT the same? One statement is a true statement of what Hubbard said in DMSMH and one is your idea of what Leah might have meant but never said.
No, sorry.

I know what happens when you leave and adopt the ideology of the anti-cult movement and re-interpret your whole earlier life as a Scientologist using the concepts of "I was Brainwashed" and "I was in a cult". You erase and cover over every part of who you used to be in a wall of guilt and shame.

And, like some Truth Rundown victim, you believe things about yourself that never happened. You deny what you really did see, think and feel.

Leah adopted the Anti-cult movement ideology about her whole past self in Scientology. She re-interpreted who she was and what she believed in the worst possible way.

I've seen it happen to Exes countless times.

It happened to me.

I've woken up from it. And I'm writing about it now - to you.
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
What happened to you, within your mind belongs to you and it's your truth.

Unless you are a fabulous mystic psychic, you don't have a clue of what happens in other people's mind as you are not their therapist.

You only make assumptions from the viewpoint you KNOW things you don't know and that makes your train on the wrong rails without objevtivity even though you may have some valid good points..you seems to be after many issues so it makes unclear your purpose.

You seem to be after people way more than concerned about warning people about tribalism and the anti-cult movement (I didn't say cult) which may carry some other agendas than only being true and honest when unveiling abuses.

There are thousands people in this movement and thousand personalities and way to address situations. AFAIAC I am not expecteing a whistle blower to be a pure angel savior..I know some of them have a heavy past and a cult personality..so as big boys a big girls we are aware of this , don't worry, "acceptable truth" , lies, manipulation are things we became expert at...in the defrauding cult of Scientology. We tend to rely on our intuition that is quite sharp and then cross proof.

;)

p.s. When you give up on your savior mission all will become more clear and easy!
 

Bill

Gold Meritorious Patron
No, sorry.

I know what happens when you leave and adopt the ideology of the anti-cult movement and re-interpret your whole earlier life as a Scientologist using the concepts of "I was Brainwashed" and "I was in a cult". You erase and cover over every part of who you used to be in a wall of guilt and shame.

And, like some Truth Rundown victim, you believe things about yourself that never happened. You deny what you really did see, think and feel.

Leah adopted the Anti-cult movement ideology about her whole past self in Scientology. She re-interpreted who she was and what she believed in the worst possible way.

I've seen it happen to Exes countless times.

It happened to me.

I've woken up from it. And I'm writing about it now - to you.
Ah! So one of your super-powers is mind-reading? How do you know what Leah is thinking?
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Ah! So one of your super-powers is mind-reading? How do you know what Leah is thinking?
How do you know what Scientologists are thinking?

Do you think Scientologists are the only humans in the world to follow an ideology?
 

Bill

Gold Meritorious Patron
How do you know what Scientologists are thinking?

Do you think Scientologists are the only humans in the world to follow an ideology?
:clapping:Well done! How to avoid answering a question while "turning the tables" on it. :thumbsup:

OK! So ... you claim that Leah is thinking this and that -- and you criticize her for what you pretend she is thinking. What makes you believe you know what she is thinking?

Because you "went through that" therefore everybody must have gone through that? Are you aware, in any way, that other people might not have your identical reactions?
 

Emma

Con te partirò
Administrator
:clapping:Well done! How to avoid answering a question while "turning the tables" on it. :thumbsup:

OK! So ... you claim that Leah is thinking this and that -- and you criticize her for what you pretend she is thinking. What makes you believe you know what she is thinking?

Because you "went through that" therefore everybody must have gone through that? Are you aware, in any way, that other people might not have your identical reactions?
You've got a point. No one can possibly know what someone else is thinking. I learned this the hard way.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
:clapping:Well done! How to avoid answering a question while "turning the tables" on it. :thumbsup:

OK! So ... you claim that Leah is thinking this and that -- and you criticize her for what you pretend she is thinking. What makes you believe you know what she is thinking?

Because you "went through that" therefore everybody must have gone through that? Are you aware, in any way, that other people might not have your identical reactions?
OK. So by your reasoning you have no basis to criticize any one individual Scientologist about what they believe.

You can read all the Hubbard you want. You can even have been a Scientologist yourself. But from what you've just reasoned, you can't know or reasonably predict what any one Scientologist is thinking with regard to psychs, with regard to "the tech" or anything else.

Why do you apply different standards of fairness and truth to Leah - now that she is your tribal hero - than you do to Scientologists?

That's dumb.
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
Alanzo entrusted Bill Frank's sayings and his concerned by what he could have revealed.

I didn't read anything concrete regarding a specific murder ; However, Alanzo will be glad to read Bill had spoken regarding the topic discussed on this thread. The mainstream culture of abuse and brainwashing...exactly what you are attempting to deny.

Put that in your pipe.

For you Alanzo from Bill

From the late Bill Franks

my intent is to talk about the climate Hubbard created. it was really a criminal environment and frankly, I am surprised that anyone would doubt that that kind of stuff went on.
Mayo, who I have the greatest of respect for, told me in '84 that Hubbard himself told him in 83 that if he left he would be tracked down and shot. It had gotten to that point.

Snipped

....Hubbard did use professional hitmen and I am surprised that anyone would even doubt this went on. My point is the villain is Hubbard not miscavage. lrh needed a willing thug and the dwrf fit the bill, but the crime was and remains hubbard's machinations.

Snipped

...Because we were all to varying degrees vctims of this tech
That brainwashing to various degrees hit all of us who went through it all and caused us to do things we might still be ashamed of, obligates us all to do what we can to shake are selves free of this Total Bullshit.
hubbard was not a nice guy and the dwarf merely carries on the tradition. If you think about it, it is hilarously sad that this subject purported to be the way to "total freedom". It is not so important to believe what i say, but it is important to take care of yourself and those you love if they were affected by this "brainwashing" which is about as real as the wall one might run into.
So, murder is pretty commonplace in a criminal environment, but the real story is that this technology that most of us held up as something holy is what got us and the dwarf ......
 
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Gib

Crusader
OK. So by your reasoning you have no basis to criticize any one individual Scientologist about what they believe.

You can read all the Hubbard you want. You can even have been a Scientologist yourself. But from what you've just reasoned, you can't know or reasonably predict what any one Scientologist is thinking with regard to psychs, with regard to "the tech" or anything else.

Why do you apply different standards of fairness and truth to Leah - now that she is your tribal hero - than you do to Scientologists?

That's dumb.
I don't think Bill said Leah is his tribal hero?
 

Emma

Con te partirò
Administrator
Alanzo entrusted Bill Frank's sayings and his concerned by what he could have revealed.

I didn't read anything regarding a murder, although Alanzo will be glad to read Bill had spoken regarding this topic. The mainstream culture of abuse and brainwashing...exactely what you are attempting to deny.

Put that in your pipe.

For you Alanzo from Bill
That's some selective editing. He also said this:

It is the the radio interviewer who perhaps made the emphasis on the murder. Does anyone really doubt that this kind of thing went on. This was the atmosphere within the close circles of scn when hubbard was alive. If you think murder was not on Hubbard's mind then you just are not familiar with the "ends justify the means' frame of mind" that existed.
 

Bill

Gold Meritorious Patron
OK. So by your reasoning you have no basis to criticize any one individual Scientologist about what they believe.

You can read all the Hubbard you want. You can even have been a Scientologist yourself. But from what you've just reasoned, you can't know or reasonably predict what any one Scientologist is thinking with regard to psychs, with regard to "the tech" or anything else.

Why do you apply different standards of fairness and truth to Leah - now that she is your tribal hero - than you do to Scientologists?

That's dumb.
You actually think you can read Leah's mind. I suppose that's fine, we all have our fantasies. What is actually dumb is that you viciously criticize Leah for what you think she is thinking. Yes, that's dumb.

And here you are believing that you can read my mind. Guess what, you're wrong on all counts.
 

Bill

Gold Meritorious Patron
And you still haven't answered my simple question. Here you find tremendous fault in Leah and Mike who are exposing real abuses by the Church of Scientology. So, the obvious question is:
Alanzo, what have you done to expose the actual abuses of the Church of Scientology.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
You actually think you can read Leah's mind. I suppose that's fine, we all have our fantasies. What is actually dumb is that you viciously criticize Leah for what you think she is thinking. Yes, that's dumb.

And here you are believing that you can read my mind. Guess what, you're wrong on all counts.
"viciously criticize Leah".

I hear that over and over.

And yet what do you do every day? To Scientologists? And to the people you think are your tribal enemies?

This tribal ninnieism - once you see it - you just can't un-see it any more.
 

Bill

Gold Meritorious Patron
"viciously criticize Leah".

I hear that over and over.

And yet what do you do every day? To Scientologists? And to the people you think are your tribal enemies?

This tribal ninnieism - once you see it - you just can't un-see it any more.
I don't criticize people for what I think they are thinking.
I don't attack people I don't know.
I try not to attack people when I don't have all the information.
I try to think the best about everyone. I know everyone has flaws.
I don't believe in your tribal bullshit and your attempt at lumping me in with your enemies is dumb. I am not your enemy.
You appear to have a very hard-held cult viewpoint with tons and tons of enemies. That is sad.
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
You actually think you can read Leah's mind. I suppose that's fine, we all have our fantasies. What is actually dumb is that you viciously criticize Leah for what you think she is thinking. Yes, that's dumb.

And here you are believing that you can read my mind. Guess what, you're wrong on all counts.
Bill has always been one of my fav in the logical plain simple reasoning dept.
 
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Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
I don't criticize people for what I think they are thinking.
I don't attack people I don't know.
I try not to attack people when I don't have all the information.
I try to think the best about everyone. I know everyone has flaws.
I don't believe in your tribal bullshit and your attempt at lumping me in with your enemies is dumb. I am not your enemy.
You appear to have a very hard-held cult viewpoint with tons and tons of enemies. That is sad.
I've found that Tribalism is comprised of three things:

1. Blind Loyalty
2. Blind Hypocracy
3. Cruelty

Blind loyalty is the most important one to target because it holds the other two in place.

You have a blind loyalty to the "effective front-line critics' you are defending even though DM is still in power, still doing whatever he wants to Scientologists.

Why? Why be such a tribal ninnie and never criticize them?

Sorry I don't get it.
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
Alanzo reasoning

I think A = A and that B thinks A = C thus B is wrong and A=A so all shall Know that A =A is the truth revrealed.

I think thus I am....
 
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Bill

Gold Meritorious Patron
I've found that Tribalism is comprised of three things:

1. Blind Loyalty
2. Blind Hypocracy
3. Cruelty

Blind loyalty is the most important one to target because it holds the other two in place.

You have a blind loyalty to the "effective front-line critics' you are defending even though DM is still in power, still doing whatever he wants to Scientologists.
You are crazy. I did not "defend" anyone. I gave you some information about Leah you were apparently lacking. I have no idea what Leah is thinking so I have no desire or reason to "defend" her thoughts. What I actually did was point out that you were ascribing thoughts to Leah with no data.

Here you say "You have a blind loyalty <bla><bla>" with no data. Once again putting your own thoughts into my head. You are so wrong. No, really, you are completely wrong -- you can't read minds.
Why? Why be such a tribal ninnie and never criticize them?
I have no reason to criticize Leah. You think I should just make up a reason, like you do? I'm not that kind of person.
Sorry I don't get it.
No, you don't and you won't. You are here to punish thought crime wherever you imagine it might be.

And you still haven't answered my question.
 
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