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Anti-Scientology Fair Game

He-man

Hero extraordinary
There are posts that do make sense. Very clearly written.
Only posts from you, He-man and Alanzo that make no sense.
I know Alanzo's agenda but you and He man seem to be confused. Maybe you should take a break and write it out before you post so it is clear.
I'm not sure how gas lighting me will do you any good.

Is this you role playing being an actual Ethics officer? I can totally dig in to that man.
 

Out Effix

Out Ethics Ex Ethics Officer
Serious, Out Ethics, I'm not poking fun. This stuff can getting pretty emotional. Everyone needs to take a break and chill.
Well Stat Push - you did not come across that way - you were acting rather rude to me.


I don't think we have a moderator that is helping protect this board but is protecting a guy who is out to destroy it. This board is here to help newbies and lurkers. Am I right? Emma became friendly with Alanzo when she was vulnerable and he was "nice" to her.

Now Alanzo is taking over the board.

Alanzo has 21% of all posts on the first page of EXSMB. The threads are filled with hate and confusion about Ex Scientologists who are doing something productive about exposing Scientology and its criminal acts. Alanzo's actions are that of OSA yet the moderator sticks head in sand.

I am serious about all of this and then you disperse my posts with drivel that makes no sense.

I am revealing some stuff here that will help the newbie and the lurker. Are you going to contribute or continue to attack and poke at me?

I can poke right back and my pokes can get pretty pokey.
 
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Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
I am all for exposing lies, deception, fraud and crimes - by anyone, especially CoS. But, it undermines the critical discourse of Scientology to claim that the church believes paedophilia is okay, or imply it is part of church doctrine. Are we expecting to shutdown Scn by lying about it? The ends justify the means?
I don't recall Leah or anyone saying that "the church believes in paedophilia". Does anyone have a link to her exact quote? Or a link to the particular video where she addressed this (and hopefully at what time in the video)?

Clearly, the "church" DOES believe in covering up paedophilia. For a Scientologist to discover that his child was molested, it would be considered a Suppressive Act for them to pick up the phone and call the police.

And Scientologists are indoctrinated to believe that children are "thetans in small bodies" and they're often treated not as children, but as adults. That can be a contributing factor towards someone becoming abusive towards them.

But, hey, Mike has an AMAZZZZING LIFE and has/had a TV show, so we'll just give him a pass.
I'm not OK with giving anyone a free pass. But doing a smear campaign on someone utilizing bold faced lies and logical fallacies is not honest criticism. You wouldn't want that done to you, would you?
How would you feel if Emma allowed that to take place on ESMB and you were the target?
 

StatPush

Patron
Exactly - and I rest my case, Stat Push. YOU continute to make no sense at all.
:cool:

Perhaps some word clearing and clay demos will help you. Please do that BEFORE you post. Write out what you want to say and then make sure you are using words YOU understand. Maybe get a star rate from He-man - you two could twin. I think if the two of you could understand each other, than the rest of us have a chance. No guarantees though. You must use the study tech and word clear all definitions and know the derivations.

START!
Just wanted to point out that it is not I complaining about things "not making sense", but you. You can try using your Scn Study Tech, if that works for you. However, I will take a pass on the recommendation.
 

Out Effix

Out Ethics Ex Ethics Officer
He-man. Once again, please word clear "gas lighting" and use it in several sentences.

Scientology Gaslights

OSA Gaslights

Because I say your posts are not clear does not = Gaslighting.

You need to get a twin and get a star rate on Gaslighting and how OSA Operates please before I contribute or read any more posts from you.
 

Out Effix

Out Ethics Ex Ethics Officer
Just wanted to point out that it is not I complaining about things "not making sense", but you. You can try using your Scn Study Tech, if that works for you. However, I will take a pass on the recommendation.
No StatPush - you are not clear with your writing. Once again, you twist the truth to suit your confusion.
 

He-man

Hero extraordinary
He-man. Once again, please word clear "gas lighting" and use it in several sentences.

Scientology Gaslights

OSA Gaslights

Because I say your posts are not clear does not = Gaslighting.

You need to get a twin and get a star rate on Gaslighting and how OSA Operates please before I contribute or read any more posts from you.

Thanks. I'll pass. Unless you can do the work for me and find me a beautiful woman who is single, to be my twin.

There are posts that do make sense. Very clearly written.
Only posts from you, He-man and Alanzo that make no sense.
I know Alanzo's agenda but you and He man seem to be confused. Maybe you should take a break and write it out before you post so it is clear.

I do believe that polarizing posters into two separate groups and then following that up by describing the three people you put together as making no sense and being confused, as gas-lightning. I wouldn't characterize it as bad as done by others. But there you have it.

It's an ad hom, and seeing that you demand the respect to be heard and listened to, I'd like some of that too.
 

JustSheila

Crusader
Back to reality - Mike Rinder was the CO OSA Int for 22 years...

You keep posting that and repeating it like some sort of meditative mantra, but you do know it’s impossible for that statement to be true, right?

Even if we pretend along with you that Mike Rinder wasn’t demoted and put in The Hole and pretend he never held any other posts, OSA was created in 1983. Mike Rinder left Scientology in 2007. He wasn’t C/O OSA from beginning to end.
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
<snip>
Back to reality - Mike Rinder was the CO OSA Int for 22 years.

<snip>
Who is your source of information on this? :unsure:

It's been 10 years since he left and spoke out. Plenty of time to deliver the head-shot.

What are we to make of that?

Here's some ideas:

You do know that over a dozen people made reports to the FBI don't you?

As per Graham Berry's petition to the White House, 300+ reports of recent crimes and atrocities were made. Up until this point the FBI has not acted, unless they are currently engaged in an investigation we are unaware of (which is possible).

Just curious, what would be an example of a "head-shot" he can deliver?
 

StatPush

Patron
I don't recall Leah or anyone saying that "the church believes in paedophilia". Does anyone have a link to her exact quote? Or a link to the particular video where she addressed this (and hopefully at what time in the video)?

Clearly, the "church" DOES believe in covering up paedophilia. For a Scientologist to discover that his child was molested, it would be considered a Suppressive Act for them to pick up the phone and call the police.

And Scientologists are indoctrinated to believe that children are "thetans in small bodies" and they're often treated not as children, but as adults. That can be a contributing factor towards someone becoming abusive towards them.


I'm not OK with giving anyone a free pass. But doing a smear campaign on someone utilizing bold faced lies and logical fallacies is not honest criticism. You wouldn't want that done to you, would you?
How would you feel if Emma allowed that to take place on ESMB and you were the target?
I agree T4, its effectively church policy to cover-up crimes. And I can see how the attitudes towards children can act to "lessen the overt". I think we're on the same page.

Here's a quote from Leah:
“Scientology policy dictates that children are grown men and women in little bodies. They believe a 7-year-old girl should not shudder at being passionately kissed. That's in ‘Dianetics,’" Remini told The Hollywood Reporter.
https://www.foxnews.com/entertainme...logy-and-the-aftermath-renewed-for-3rd-season

Regarding a smear campaign...sorry, I don't follow you. The thrust of my post on Mike Rinder was not to smear him. I just don't see him as God's Gift to Anti-Scn. I respect the work he has done; seen every episode of Aftermath; regularly read his blog. But, I haven't lost sight of the fact he ran OSA for 22 years. That's a lot of hurt.

Bold faced lies? Logical fallacies? Please explain.
 

JustSheila

Crusader
@StatPush
Here is a quote from Mike Rinder and his interview about his various posts at OSA:

“I can’t be credited with creating OSA, but I was certainly there when it happened. And within a short period of time I became the head of OSA,” Rinder told me recently. “These people [at the GO] had done a bunch of kooky things. Myself and a bunch of other people had the idea that we had to start doing things the right way and not the wrong way.”

For more than 20 years, Rinder was
involved in and led OSA before he left Scientology in 2007. He played a role overseeing Scientology’s legal affairs, he ran an office that employed private investigators, and he eventually also became the church’s chief spokesman.

https://www.villagevoice.com/2011/09/14/the-top-25-people-crippling-scientology-no-8-mike-rinder/

He clearly was not C/O OSA for 22 years. He had many posts in that time. Do you not understand something about Scientology posts and transfers? Very few people stay on one post for long, particularly in the Sea Org. Posts and duties are separated and differentiated in such a way that one normally does not know the details of what their peers or those in other departments are doing.
 

StatPush

Patron
You keep posting that and repeating it like some sort of meditative mantra, but you do know it’s impossible for that statement to be true, right?

Even if we pretend along with you that Mike Rinder wasn’t demoted and put in The Hole and pretend he never held any other posts, OSA was created in 1983. Mike Rinder left Scientology in 2007. He wasn’t C/O OSA from beginning to end.
From Mike's web site:

Representing the Church of Scientology in External Affairs
In 1981 I began what would become a lengthy history working on “external affairs” when I was sent on the first “Obs Mission” to the Guardian’s Office at World Wide (WW) at St Hill, followed by a long series of Sea Org Missions to disband the GO, both at WW (St. Hill in England) and the USGO in Los Angeles. I subsequently held various posts in Special Project and then the Office of Special Affairs (OSA) the external facing arm of scientology – from Legal Aide to CO OSA US to CO OSA Int and Watchdog Committee (WDC) for OSA. During this time I also held other posts, LRH PPRO International, various other WDC posts and CO CMO Int. But the vast majority of time was in OSA. From the early 90’s I became the primary international spokesperson for the church.
https://www.mikerindersblog.org/mike-rinder-bio/

With respect to OSA...
Its head is Mike Rinder (right), a longtime Scientologist and ally of David Miscavige. In the early 1980s he helped to push through the dismemberment of the GO (coyly described as "a series of projects designed to reorganize the legal and public affairs representation of the Church"). He was rewarded in 1985 with the job of looking after all Church legal and public affairs in the United States, a role extended in 1987 to cover external Church affairs internationally as head of OSA International (OSA Int. for short).
http://www.xenu.net/archive/go/osahist.htm
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
I agree T4, its effectively church policy to cover-up crimes. And I can see how the attitudes towards children can act to "lessen the overt". I think we're on the same page.
Yes, on that, we are. :thumbsup:


Here's a quote from Leah:
“Scientology policy dictates that children are grown men and women in little bodies. They believe a 7-year-old girl should not shudder at being passionately kissed. That's in ‘Dianetics,’" Remini told The Hollywood Reporter.
https://www.foxnews.com/entertainme...logy-and-the-aftermath-renewed-for-3rd-season
Thank-you but I'd actually like to see the actual quote directly from Leah (preferably on video). What Fox New wrote may be the actual quote, but I've seen too many times where media outlets altered a quote from someone. I've had it happen to me. (I'll try to find it myself later, but if anyone has a video link, please post it)

For sure all Scientologists don't believe that "a 7-year old girl should not shudder at being passionately kissed". Apparently LRH did believe it, or at least he wrote it. There's something I find pretty disturbing about that line. :ohmy:


Regarding a smear campaign...sorry, I don't follow you. The thrust of my post on Mike Rinder was not to smear him. I just don't see him as God's Gift to Anti-Scn. I respect the work he has done; seen every episode of Aftermath; regularly read his blog. But, I haven't lost sight of the fact he ran OSA for 22 years. That's a lot of hurt.
I didn't mean by my comment on a smear campaign that you were running such a campaign. But there certainly has been a campaign run on ESMB the past month or so.

Bold faced lies? Logical fallacies? Please explain.

I'm referring to many of Alanzo's postings here since he's been back. If I have time before the board closes I'll explain in detail, although I've posted about it on a number of occasions.

Alternatively, you can........


lurk more.PNG


:cool:
 

JustSheila

Crusader
From Mike's web site:

Representing the Church of Scientology in External Affairs
In 1981 I began what would become a lengthy history working on “external affairs” when I was sent on the first “Obs Mission” to the Guardian’s Office at World Wide (WW) at St Hill, followed by a long series of Sea Org Missions to disband the GO, both at WW (St. Hill in England) and the USGO in Los Angeles. I subsequently held various posts in Special Project and then the Office of Special Affairs (OSA) the external facing arm of scientology – from Legal Aide to CO OSA US to CO OSA Int and Watchdog Committee (WDC) for OSA. During this time I also held other posts, LRH PPRO International, various other WDC posts and CO CMO Int. But the vast majority of time was in OSA. From the early 90’s I became the primary international spokesperson for the church.
https://www.mikerindersblog.org/mike-rinder-bio/

With respect to OSA...
Its head is Mike Rinder (right), a longtime Scientologist and ally of David Miscavige. In the early 1980s he helped to push through the dismemberment of the GO (coyly described as "a series of projects designed to reorganize the legal and public affairs representation of the Church"). He was rewarded in 1985 with the job of looking after all Church legal and public affairs in the United States, a role extended in 1987 to cover external Church affairs internationally as head of OSA International (OSA Int. for short).
http://www.xenu.net/archive/go/osahist.htm

Exactly. He worked at various posts (jobs) at OSA. He was C/O OSA for part of that time. He was not C/O OSA for 22 years. Is English a second language for you?
 

freethinker

Sponsor
Why does there have to be a "campaign"?

Why can't it simply be..."While Mike Rinder was working for OSA/GO, he engaged in dirty tricks to Fair Game Gerry Armstrong."

Is this idea so abhorrent? Do we have to take sides? Not everyone is scheming in the shadows.

This is simply a statement of fact. And it is not a condemnation of Mike Rinder.
Because there is one brought here by Alanzo and Gerry appears to be behind it. OK, let's say Mike did for argument sake, what is the point of going on and ona about it? Unless you have evidence or witnesses it's just blowing smoke and annoying everyone one else.

Alanzo has taken a side. Apparently Gerry has taken a side, I take no side in this matter, so to say I am scheming in the shadows is just a presumption on your part.

Does the "statement of fact" have to be reintroduced on multiple threads with the same war cry over and over. Emma got sick and tired of Gib asking the same question but Alanzo is different?

When its on a half a dozen threads or more and constantly repeated it is no longer a mere statement, but a war cry.
What's abhorrent is the excessive TR4ing the same thing expecting someone to go, "Yeah, let's get Mike to spit out his crimes that he hasn't mentioned in 12 years", but actually has.
 

freethinker

Sponsor
I did get through to Gerry, but then I got cut off. ...

I was asking him on behalf of everyone WHY! doesn't he post to ESMB?

He said something like "libelminis", but maybe he said "hootenannies." In any case, the mountain is socked in and the reception is terrible.
But he managed to get a response through on Warrior's question even though it didn't answer the question. How did he do that, and so quickly?
 

freethinker

Sponsor
I am all for exposing lies, deception, fraud and crimes - by anyone, especially CoS. But, it undermines the critical discourse of Scientology to claim that the church believes paedophilia is okay, or imply it is part of church doctrine. Are we expecting to shutdown Scn by lying about it? The ends justify the means?

But, hey, Mike has an AMAZZZZING LIFE and has/had a TV show, so we'll just give him a pass. And, oh, the stuff he did while Head of OSA Int for 22 years, which no one really knows the full details of - including you, Out Ethics, we'll just let him slide on that too. Scn will be shutdown in no time! (ASC version of "the planet will soon be cleared").

The secret to bringing Scn down is not be tribal and fanatical like Scn is; to carefully investigate, examine data, verify evidence - regardless opinion or personality. You, know, the thing you didn't do when you got into Scn.

This issue is much, much broader than Mike Rinder and Leah Remini. It's about how we think.
I have personally seen 11 year olds holding executive positions in Scientology. I delivered a package to one at the Guaranty Building. It was a really nice office too.

It's a fact that Scientology has a cadet org.

It's a fact that they had kids babysitting kids as nannies while SO staff did their posts

It's a fact Hubbard had kids as messengers for his private messages

It's a fact that Scientology lies about its services and intent. If Scientology could deliver what was promised they would having people flocking to receive services and the orgs really would be booming but that isn't happening, nor will it.

That Paedophilia could be going on is not a far stretch of the imagination and I have read some stories here about underage molestation happening at the Mace Kingsley Ranch more than once.


It's a fact that people have gone psychotic on Scientology practices.

It's a fact that Scientology delivers the Purification Rundown without qualified and licensed medical people overseeing it.

You want people to go after Mike Rinder on a presumption but we are using lies when Scientology's track record is so abysmal.

Sounds to me like you are defending the church and saying go after Mike instead.
 
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