Suppression and No Compassion

[cinamingrl]

I feel that the "church" if scn. practices suppression as a rule. Their lack of compassion for human beings proves this. In no other organization is there such a lack of compassion and feelings than in that cult. Only once since then have I come upon this kind of suppression, since I've left that cult. And I could see it for what it was, when I experienced it.....and then walk away from it. It's all about a person having no conscience. For people or persons to have such a huge non-compassionate attitude towards other humans, has to be because of their having no conscience. It's actually a frightening thought to realize that an organization that operates this way, can make such a huge amount of money. People need to be more street wise and listen to their own conscience instead of allowing others to treat them with such obvious disdain and callousness.

 

[Carnaubawax]

You are absoluely right. in my view the highest human virtue is kindness.

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

Agreed. Sadly the current CofS seems to see compassion as "theetie-weetie" and weakness.

 

[klidov]

It is a sad commentary of the cult that emotions expressed are considered a sign of weakness. I do not see a lot of compassion in the cult as a rule, however I have heard of individuals within that have been kind to their fellow members.

 

[uniquemand]

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/scientology/users/catechism/part3/

"13.4 If one goes Clear, will he lose his emotions?

No, on the contrary, a Clear is able to use and
experience any emotion. Only the painful, reactive,
uncontrolled emotions are gone from his life. Clears are
very responsive beings. When one is Clear, he is more
himself. The only loss is a negative -- the reactive mind
-- which was preventing the individual from being
himself"

 

[Iknowtoomuch]

Very true. But it's required of Scientologists. It makes it easy to kick people out of your life if the "chruch" says so.

 

[KnightVision]

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/scientology/users/catechism/part3/

"13.4 If one goes Clear, will he lose his emotions?

No, on the contrary, a Clear is able to use and
experience any emotion. Only the painful, reactive,
uncontrolled emotions are gone from his life. Clears are
very responsive beings. When one is Clear, he is more
himself. The only loss is a negative -- the reactive mind
-- which was preventing the individual from being
himself"

This is hubbo wording. where's YOUR actual knowledge?

 

[British Mom]

I feel that the "church" if scn. practices suppression as a rule. Their lack of compassion for human beings proves this. In no other organization is there such a lack of compassion and feelings than in that cult. Only once since then have I come upon this kind of suppression, since I've left that cult. And I could see it for what it was, when I experienced it.....and then walk away from it. It's all about a person having no conscience. For people or persons to have such a huge non-compassionate attitude towards other humans, has to be because of their having no conscience. It's actually a frightening thought to realize that an organization that operates this way, can make such a huge amount of money. People need to be more street wise and listen to their own conscience instead of allowing others to treat them with such obvious disdain and callousness.

You are so right. I saw in 1995 that people in the field were PTS to the Org, so eventually I left. In 2000 I was declared & my daughter disconnected from her whole family.

I divorced in 2001 so wasnt connected to my daughters father, a couple of weeks ago he died & my daughter didnt even phone her sister, who was distraught about losing her Dad.

In all the years I was in Scientology, my family came first. I know my disconnected daughter saw the outpoints in the Org, I am sure one day she will feel a great loss, but at the moment we are nothing to her.

I thank God I have some family left who care, really care about others.

 

[KnightVision]

There's no doubt about it.

Anger.

Jealousy.

Crying.

Antagonism.

Desire.

Etc. Etc.

Scientology, including it's *Clears* are dictated by hubbo judgements upon their emotions and those of others. ALL of the emotions stated above are BEAUTIFUL HUMAN EXPERIENCES which are part of our organic process of growing and living; just like the 'more pleasant ones' of happy, etc.... but in Scn and what is expected of a 'Clear' one is *bound* by limiting his acceptance of 'good' emotion to only those that affect good PR for the inner and outer PRESENTATION of Scn.

 

[uniquemand]

This is hubbo wording. where's YOUR actual knowledge?

My actual knowledge? Clear is not a permanent "state", and doesn't have the "abilities" ascribed to it in DMSMH or elsewhere.

My wording would be that a clear is a person who is not controlled by their emotions, and who does not experience emotions from traumatic experiences, but rather experiences emotions appropriate to the present environment.

 

[asagai]

My actual knowledge? Clear is not a permanent "state", and doesn't have the "abilities" ascribed to it in DMSMH or elsewhere.

My wording would be that a clear is a person who is not controlled by their emotions, and who does not experience emotions from traumatic experiences, but rather experiences emotions appropriate to the present environment.

No, that second paragraph is still Hubbard's wording of it, not yours. You are still being a Scientologist and paraphrasing the cult-leader's words.

It is only a minor concession to say it is not permanent - because as a scientologist one can always justify that fact by saying it needs rehabbing or is unflat or O/W's have caused the loss of the state.

You, my friend, are still thinking inside the Hubbard box.

What is your take on this idea of compassion - not what Hubard has told you about it - what is your opinion of compassion? Does Scientology allow its members this feeling, or is it suppressed by the philosophy and the tech?

 

[uniquemand]

Oh, specific to compassion, my take is that it is an admirable quality. Hubbard seemed to equate it with "sympathy", and considered sympathy a weakness. I don't share that take.

And no, Asagai, I'm not still inside Hubbard's box. And my second paragraph in the post you quoted was my take, whether it agreed with Hubbard or not.

 

[asagai]

Oh, specific to compassion, my take is that it is an admirable quality. Hubbard seemed to equate it with "sympathy", and considered sympathy a weakness. I don't share that take.

And no, Asagai, I'm not still inside Hubbard's box. And my second paragraph in the post you quoted was my take, whether it agreed with Hubbard or not.

Very well. So let me ask you how you know "a clear is a person who is not controlled by their emotions, and who does not experience emotions from traumatic experiences, but rather experiences emotions appropriate to the present environment."

I know LRH said that, but what is your experience that has led you to the same conclusion as Mr H?

 

[cinamingrl]

~~~

Well,......I had a good male friend who was a "clear". He was a very very good friend for a long while, during my staff years, and after I left. For many years he was a very loyal friend. And then a few times he called me "insane" for small things I did like......emailing him something funny on my horoscope I'd read. OR kind of criticizing me for some of the things I did. Sometimes I had the feeling he was implying that he'd never do what I did, since he was now a clear. And that I was doing things he didn't approve of because I wasn't clear.

My think is that a person can be compassionate, but due to the ideology of that cult, and their "better than everyone else" think......even the good people in it eventually either don't know how to express their feelings the way a non-scient. would. Or they just don't think they are supposed to be real or caring, in a "theety-wheety" way.

I used to look at people's words and actions and rate them on the tone scale. It was always easy for me to see a 1.1. But now I think it's really just passive-aggression. Some of the sickest people I'd ever met were staff members where I worked. I really wonder if it's not just the idea that it's "religious" that makes the entire organization 1.1 or just their lack of caring.

 

[uniquemand]

Very well. So let me ask you how you know "a clear is a person who is not controlled by their emotions, and who does not experience emotions from traumatic experiences, but rather experiences emotions appropriate to the present environment."

I know LRH said that, but what is your experience that has led you to the same conclusion as Mr H?

I was discussing a "postulated" state, rather than an actual state. I believe a person can be clear, in the way that I stated it, but not that the "state" is permanent.

My experience was actually strongest after writing up O/W's and coming to a "flat point" on TR-0 Bullbait. I consider it a skill, rather than a "state". I'm not talking about suppressing emotion, I'm talking about recognizing you are feeling an emotion, but DOING what you consider to be right/sane/correct for the situation. Emotions are guidance systems, automated by evolution, not necessarily sacred or correct. Particularly not when stimulated by things which didn't occur in the ancient primeval situations for which those emotions were evolved.

 

[cinamingrl]

~~~

I still have my primeval emotions, and that is okay with me.

I'd say that the ED of the org where I was on staff, was definitely a Neanderthal from the paleolithic era. IF ever there was a living breathing female Neanderthal on this earth, she is the perfect specimen. A cave woman in every way.

 

[asagai]

I was discussing a "postulated" state, rather than an actual state. I believe a person can be clear, in the way that I stated it, but not that the "state" is permanent.

My experience was actually strongest after writing up O/W's and coming to a "flat point" on TR-0 Bullbait. I consider it a skill, rather than a "state". I'm not talking about suppressing emotion, I'm talking about recognizing you are feeling an emotion, but DOING what you consider to be right/sane/correct for the situation. Emotions are guidance systems, automated by evolution, not necessarily sacred or correct. Particularly not when stimulated by things which didn't occur in the ancient primeval situations for which those emotions were evolved.

Thanks for explaining it in a way unique to your experience.

One of the things that worked best for me when de-programming myself from the cult was to express life concepts outside of scientology terminology and outside of Ron's explanations and interpretations of life.

 

[uniquemand]

I consider that reprogramming, rather than deprogramming, but I suppose some would consider that splitting hairs.

 

[anonomog]

I feel that the "church" if scn. practices suppression as a rule. Their lack of compassion for human beings proves this. In no other organization is there such a lack of compassion and feelings than in that cult. Only once since then have I come upon this kind of suppression, since I've left that cult. And I could see it for what it was, when I experienced it.....and then walk away from it. It's all about a person having no conscience. For people or persons to have such a huge non-compassionate attitude towards other humans, has to be because of their having no conscience. It's actually a frightening thought to realize that an organization that operates this way, can make such a huge amount of money. People need to be more street wise and listen to their own conscience instead of allowing others to treat them with such obvious disdain and callousness.

Cinamingrl, I had the unfortunate experience of working for a woman who, I now realise, emotionally/psychologically terrorised me for two years omg: how dumb for staying so long! But first the reasoning is "I need the money" and then it is because "no one else will hire me") When Exes mention "no case on post" I immediately remember the hours spent physically rigid at my desk trying to hold in all my emotions and function effectively. Of course, emotions would eventually explode out of me completely out of proportion to the cause of the emotional outburst. This woman was a trained psychologist and knew exactly what buttons to push and never hesitated to push them all and then some.
The cost to me was enormous. It is only now, years later, I realise how much life I missed in those two years by not fully allowing myself to experience the emotion of daily life. It was like viewing life from a distance. Horrible.

This was caused by ONE person for only two years. I cannot imagine how it must be to work within an organisation that expects it as a standard operating practice.

I now enjoy feeling and expressing and enjoy the balance of living life as a spiritual, emotional and physical being. And yes, life can sometimes hurt like hell, but I'd rather that, than not feel at all.

I often wonder, if I had stayed longer, whether I would ever have got back my emotional balance.
I have the greatest respect for those exes who have been through such longterm emotionally dampening experiences and are still compassionate, empathetic and supportive individuals. perhaps its proof that an innate loving spirit can never entirely be eradicated.

 

[Free to shine]

You are so right. I saw in 1995 that people in the field were PTS to the Org, so eventually I left. In 2000 I was declared & my daughter disconnected from her whole family.

I divorced in 2001 so wasnt connected to my daughters father, a couple of weeks ago he died & my daughter didnt even phone her sister, who was distraught about losing her Dad.

In all the years I was in Scientology, my family came first. I know my disconnected daughter saw the outpoints in the Org, I am sure one day she will feel a great loss, but at the moment we are nothing to her.

I thank God I have some family left who care, really care about others.

That is so sad, so very sad. This sort of thing happens so often and needs to be exposed and talked about as much as we can. Suz I hope yo get your daughter back one day, and I get mine.