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The Major Flaw in Knowledgism

Naaaa.

Sorry. I have no respect for the Knowledgist's way of handling challenges to Knowledgism.

There is nothing to respect about it.

It is total Hubbard cultish bullshit, and it is there for the same reason the Scientologists use it: Knowledgism can not stand up to scrutiny so you have to do anything other than answering the question, or addressing the point. It is an obvious prestidigitation technique used by people with something to hide.

If that's not true then answer Alex with something a little more adult than this.
 
So rather than deal with the concepts I posted you accuse me of being OSA and uninformed.

Speaks for itself.

Au contraire.

It would be logical to become informed about ANY body of knowledge you wish to criticise before launching into a dismissal of it.

You clearly have issues with Allan. Communication usually resolves all problems, so how about getting into comm with Allan an sorting your differences out with a mature and constructive exchange.

Did I accuse you of being OSA??

I merely asked if you had an agenda and were following a script.

A simple NO would have sufficed.

Methinks you protest too much.

Dart
 
Au contraire.

It would be logical to become informed about ANY body of knowledge you wish to criticise before launching into a dismissal of it.

You clearly have issues with Allan. Communication usually resolves all problems, so how about getting into comm with Allan an sorting your differences out with a mature and constructive exchange.

Did I accuse you of being OSA??

I merely asked if you had an agenda and were following a script.

A simple NO would have sufficed.

Methinks you protest too much.

Dart

Very disappointing, Dart.

You're a grown up, right?

Knowledgism has nothing to hide, right?

Why don't you just answer his question instead of using OSA-style dead agent tactics?

Even if Alex was OSA, you would appear that you weren't. And that would be a plus for you.

Instead, you just look like little pinheaded Hubbardites who lie and cheat and "always Attack, Never Defend".

I want to believe that you are better than that. But just like I had to learn with Hubbard and the Church, I have to look at what you DO, not just what I want to be true.

The "Hubbard was Evil - we're so much better" pitch becomes pretty transparent after a while, especially when you act just like Hubbard.
 
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Au contraire.

It would be logical to become informed about ANY body of knowledge you wish to criticise before launching into a dismissal of it.

You clearly have issues with Allan. Communication usually resolves all problems, so how about getting into comm with Allan an sorting your differences out with a mature and constructive exchange.

Did I accuse you of being OSA??

I merely asked if you had an agenda and were following a script.

A simple NO would have sufficed.

Methinks you protest too much.

Dart


I am familiar with Alan's writings, gods in disguise my favorite. I have also followed him when he was active on ACT, and am registered on his site. I have listened to many of his audio lectures.

When I first "had issues" with Alan I called the Ranch and left a MSG for him, to which he replied with his direct phone number.

I called him, but after five minutes of him telling me how I was abusing him, I decided he was not interested in any thing I was trying to say.

Now, what about the topic of this thread?

Other determined entity situations and the falicy of power and control as a route to spiritual freedom?
 
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I don't wish to offend the Knowledgists, because I think they are good people, and have done yeomen's work separating their philosophy from Scientology. However, I feel that confidentiality and proprietary considerations about a philosophy intended to help people become capable and enlightened is a contradiction in terms. Thus, I've steered clear. I have the same problem with the metapsychology folks, though I love them dearly too, and use some of their materials.

I don't feel I can be completely supportive of any group that keeps it's core philosophy a secret from it's members, or others interested in learning about it.
 
TEAM noun Definition:
1. side in sports competition: a group of people forming one side in a sports competition
2. cooperatively functioning group: a number of people organized to function cooperatively as a group
3. animals worked together: two or more animals worked together, especially to pull a vehicle or agricultural equipment


The most benign definition is #2. Next would be #1 because it supposes oppostion, and then #3 which is slavery in a form.

Knowledgism targets the already wealthy and powerful, business leaders and opinion makers, with business and personal coaching services. (do these folks know they are buying a scientology variant?)

Using front groups such as

http://www.powerleadership.com/apl.htm#about Nice list of who they target.
http://www.zonesecrets.com/ ORDER NOW!
http://www.abilityconsultants.com/
http://www.advancedcoachingandleadership.com/
http://www.wisdompublishing.com/

or teaming with sales or business coaches such as:

http://www.simpleology.com/
https://www.richdadcoaching.com/
http://www.spirit-intelligence.com/
http://www.nichetech.com/
http://www.2dayevent.com/
http://www.tentwentyseventy.com/

or affiliated "field" processors:

http://www.pauldrayton.com/
http://www.maartenwillemsen.ch/
http://theclearingsight.com/
http://www.lynnejoymcfarland.com/
http://www.lincorg.com/
http://www.lifetechnologies.biz/

(link removed at Alex's request)


Knowledgism opens a field for recruitment into its more esoteric spiritual practices.

All well and fine, offering effective life enhancement services to the people most interested and willing to pay....

But to what paradigm are these people led?

Knowledgism uses an OCA like personal analysis graph to chart progress towards; Mastery, Expansion, Empowerment, Power, Abundance and Success.

http://www.knowledgism.com/main/profile.asp Which costs $150 to have graded.

Valuable Human "game" goals. But spiritual? And something to aggregate other spiritual entities towards the progress to?

Knowledgism uses the game metaphor frequently.

http://www.knowledgism.com/gamesmatrix/gamecondition.asp

A game with the goal of mastery and power, using an assembled team of spiritual entities, beholdened to their liberator.....

Who is the opponent?

Apparently me, for one.

2. You can make some nifty friends with your entities.....and often
you can build a powerful spiritual team of entities. Alan C Walter


Do we need to make people more powerful who have yet to give up the notion of opponents in the spirit realm?
 
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How knowledgists operate.

They are attracted to it by its "life" benefits.

The get processed and then trained and come to accept the principles of the more esoteric spiritual practices.

The go forth and evangelize.

Typically a knowledigst will have his own business or series of them.

They will have written their own book, ususally restating some of knowedgism and "Science of Getting Rich".

They will have a website that has little or no reference to knowledgism, (and thus to scientology), but will sell books and link to courses and other "team mates" (corporal kind)

They will offer non spiritual "coaching", be it sales, business management, sports, or life enhancing.

This leads to their "recruits" becoming interested in themselves forwarding that whole adgenda.

Nice circle.
 
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Hullo Alex,

Which hat are you wearing for this thread? :confused2:

From your recent posts on Knowledgism you appear to be operating to an agenda, is this the case? :ohmy:

As far as I am concerned, you are welcome to say whatever you like about any subject here on the board, providing you are expressing your own views and are not working to a prepared script. :yes:

I get the impression you are confused and are struggling to align concepts regarding what one's spiritual team are and what they do. :confused2:

Hubbard demonstrated his drug fuelled paranoia about one's beings in and around you and your space. He wanted to get rid of them all. Well, look where that idea got him and many suffering followers. :no: :grouch:

Before you decide whether a body of knowledge is flawed or not, it might be a good idea to actually read up a bit about it first. :duh:


If he's confused then he would probably not have an agenda or be wearing a hat- right?
 
Au contraire.

It would be logical to become informed about ANY body of knowledge you wish to criticise before launching into a dismissal of it.

You clearly have issues with Allan. Communication usually resolves all problems, so how about getting into comm with Allan an sorting your differences out with a mature and constructive exchange.

Did I accuse you of being OSA??

I merely asked if you had an agenda and were following a script.

A simple NO would have sufficed.

Methinks you protest too much.

Dart


You did say "hat" and "agenda". That tends to be reminiscent of references to OSA types.

Personally, I don't believe there's any such thing as protesting too much. Shakespeare was smart but not on that point.
 
Interesting! I'm glad Dart is going to share with us the spiritual team-mates philosophy, so that we can all talk about it with an educated eye. I'm sure he wouldn't just be dangling a mystery for purposes of selling a course.
 
There's nothing too strange about having "spiritual teammates" co-operating in one's life. There are numerous cases of farmers on record (books written) where entities assist in developing the farm and co-acting in the growth of crops. I know of one such guy - he was a forester in Africa - and had little fellas tell him whenever his attention was needed anywhere on the estate. They were always spot-on.

I have myself at times found one very useful as an ally, though no ways is he "enslaved" or "beholden" to me. The first time he made himself present I recall I was working at my workbench when I reached for a screwdriver and it wasn't where I thought it was. A little voice said out from behind me "It's in the oil bucket". I tought What?? How could it be there? I couldn't find the screwdriver anywhere at all with my eyes, so I shoved my hand into the bucket of waste gearbox oil and hauled out the screwdriver. How the hell it got there is still quite beyond me.

On many other occasions too this friend has acted in my interests. Only point of contention we have is I like a glass of wine when I relax at the end if the day and he doesn't want me to have it and says so. But I win on that one, I have the wine.
 
Interesting! I'm glad Dart is going to share with us the spiritual team-mates philosophy, so that we can all talk about it with an educated eye. I'm sure he wouldn't just be dangling a mystery for purposes of selling a course.

Hullo Uniquemaid,

I am more than happy to respond to your post as you have put your point forward in a friendly and courteous manner, unlike some comments from others which are clearly tainted by the writer's own emotional baggage and negativity.

First of all, what is a spiritual team mate?

This is a being in and around your space who either contributes to, or hinders your activities and success.

Not all beings in your space are neccessarialy "team mates".

The old agage "How do you get to Carnegie Hall?" comes in. The answer being "Practice, practice, practice"

Whatever skills you wish to develop will depend on how well you practice those skills. In doing so, those team mates around you will also improve and become more and more in line with what you are looking to develop.

I remember being in Japan in the 1970's and met the Grand Master of Akido. He gave a demonstration.

He had a small helium filled balloon tied to a crossbar. Across this a silk thread with two bells attached.

He turned his back to the balloon, drew his sword and cut through the silk thread WITHOUT bursting the balloon.

That was the result of YEARS of practice. He demonstrated a level of mastery where he and his team were as one.

In Knowledgism we look at ourselves as operating within zones.

The lowest is the RED ZONE. Here you are faced with people (and quite a few of your team mates ) working against you. You are unskilled, unaware of how to perform what you are doing, working with counter intention and are usually in the wrong place, doing the wrong thing and at the wrong time.

Two examples; Do you remember the first time you sat in a car learning how to drive? There was confusion, uncertainty etc. However, the more you practiced, the more competent you became.

Think of a boat crew who have never rowed before. They are all splashing around, confusion reigns. As they learn how to row, so they begin to work together, so it develops.

I often think of an office, particularly an open plan one, as an example. It is like a war zone. People are covertly, sometimes openly working against each other, trying to get ahead of the other guy.They get into "games conditions". It is amazing that the company even makes a profit.

Just imagine what it would be like if everyone there actually worked WITH each other. How much more successful would the company be?

So it is with your own spiritual team.

As you develop your skills so you move up into the Yellow zone. Here you are WORKING FOR whatever you are doing.

Most employees operate within these two bands, they are there for the wage. They follow their orders and keep their heads down. Quite often they will know their job function, complete their work as neccessary, but that is the limit of their ambition and drive.

Supposing they really practiced their skills, made sure they understood the concepts of what they were looking to achieve? They would then be WORKING WITH each other, achievement and success comes with operating at this level.

Again, it is the same with your spiritual team.

On a personal level, I started in my business 30 years ago. It was hard, I worked long hours and the rewards were not great. However, after practicing my skills in my field, I have fully trained my customers and suppliers to work WITH me, I am considered a major player in my field, I work about 6-8 hours per week and bring in a six figure sum.

For me, Knowledgism is about getting people to apply their skills. We have successful procedures that, if applied, do assist individuals to develop whatever aspect of their life they want to improve. It goes withouit saying that the individual's own team also learn to work WITH you as well. This we refer to as the Green Zone.

Like I said earlier, not all beings in and around your space are part of your team. There is nothing to stop them joining in, if they so choose.

I hope that this gives you a clearer insight into what my spiritual team mate philosophy is about.

Dart
 
What of the situation of entities who have just been freed from unconsciousness or compulsive "location" in ones space?

Are they dealt with in a neutral attitude? Or encouraged to join the team. It would seem they are "ripe" for it.

That would be more to the crux of this discussion.

I get the distinct impression that knowledgism encourages people to process them and add them to ones team.

Which has overtones of definition 3, rather than 2...

http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=253773&postcount=26
 
Hullo Uniquemaid,

I am more than happy to respond to your post as you have put your point forward in a friendly and courteous manner, unlike some comments from others which are clearly tainted by the writer's own emotional baggage and negativity.

snip

Dart

Here is my original post:

"The major flaw in knowledgism is spiritual teammates.

What? Teams bad? Spiritual teams sounds like a great idea...

A team is a group organized for a common purpose. Nothing wrong with that.

But with the knowledgism technology these teams are composed partly of the entities that were once unconsciously bound to others.

Entities that may have been unconscious and completely other determined for quite a long time. Knowledgism, rather than completely freeing these entities, uses help and affinity to bind them into a team and then organizes them for purposes other than what the entity may have decided to do left to their own choices.

"Spiritual Teammates" could also be called subtlety enslaved entities. Yes a nice enslavement, affinity flows and all, but still, not completely free.

The purpose of developing these teams is the trap of thinking that power and dominion over material life it necessary to "win" the "game".

It is a trap of not seeing what freedom is, but rather trying to beat a game that is an illusion in the first place.

Power, control, sovereignty, are in themselves elements of separation from true freedom.

My opinion."


I do not believe it was discourteous.

Would you like to address the specific issue I brought up?

You answered with a general statement about the zones and teammates.
 
What of the situation of entities who have just been freed from unconsciousness or compulsive "location" in ones space?

Are they dealt with in a neutral attitude? Or encouraged to join the team. It would seem they are "ripe" for it.

That would be more to the crux of this discussion.

I get the distinct impression that knowledgism encourages people to process them and add them to ones team.

Which has overtones of definition 3, rather than 2...

http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=253773&postcount=26

In answer to your question, if a being wakes up from unconciousness or compulsive location in one's own space, that is exactly what they do; wake up. If you grant them beingness they will make their own decisions.

As to joining one's team, well, success does attract. No one is "encouraged" to join in. If they want to join, they are welcome. If they want to just hang around, then fine, so long as they don't impede you and your team in their endeavours.

Whilst we can and do process people, our focus is on training. There is no such thing as processing them to encourage them to join your team. It is all down to the being's choice.

Otherwise you are getting into a Scn cult type activity of trying to determine for them.
 
In answer to your question, if a being wakes up from unconciousness or compulsive location in one's own space, that is exactly what they do; wake up. If you grant them beingness they will make their own decisions.

As to joining one's team, well, success does attract. No one is "encouraged" to join in. If they want to join, they are welcome. If they want to just hang around, then fine, so long as they don't impede you and your team in their endeavours.

Whilst we can and do process people, our focus is on training. There is no such thing as processing them to encourage them to join your team. It is all down to the being's choice.

Otherwise you are getting into a Scn cult type activity of trying to determine for them.

Actually Hubbard recomended a "neutral" attitude towards them. I believe because of the possible tendency for them to perhaps be grateful and stick around, rather than going off to discovery thier own freely chosen path.

You are granting them beingness, you are an ally by that act. Their staying around has elements of other determinism.

You could be their "god" in thier eyes after being helped thusly.

While Knowledgism has many elements in common with scientology, I believe its emphasis on life success and its potential to influence entities into "bonding" rather than explore the other possiblities are problematic. Material success is not spiritual.
 
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Yes, I'll Answer it

Here is my original post:

"The major flaw in knowledgism is spiritual teammates.

What? Teams bad? Spiritual teams sounds like a great idea...

A team is a group organized for a common purpose. Nothing wrong with that.

But with the knowledgism technology these teams are composed partly of the entities that were once unconsciously bound to others.

Entities that may have been unconscious and completely other determined for quite a long time. Knowledgism, rather than completely freeing these entities, uses help and affinity to bind them into a team and then organizes them for purposes other than what the entity may have decided to do left to their own choices.

"Spiritual Teammates" could also be called subtlety enslaved entities. Yes a nice enslavement, affinity flows and all, but still, not completely free.

The purpose of developing these teams is the trap of thinking that power and dominion over material life it necessary to "win" the "game".

It is a trap of not seeing what freedom is, but rather trying to beat a game that is an illusion in the first place.

Power, control, sovereignty, are in themselves elements of separation from true freedom.

My opinion."


I do not believe it was discourteous.

Would you like to address the specific issue I brought up?

You answered with a general statement about the zones and teammates.

It seems from what I'm reading of your posts, Alex, you've not done any courses of Knowledgism, not done or had any Knowledgism processes. And not read Alan's book: "Who or What is Man? Who or What are You?"

ANd what I am seeing written by you is a blatant misrepresentation of the subject, what it is and what it does.

If you read the referenced book, and do, actually do, the spiritual teammate handling procedures, you'll see they in fact restore personal, individual sovereignty and freedom of choice back to the otherwise, currently unwittingly stuck and "aberrated" spiritual Beings . . . . as Alan states in that R/D: "some choose to 'leave' and some choose to 'stay with you.'"

Compare that to Hubbard's handling of spiritual connections wherein his R/D is akin to his abusive trick of "disconnection."

My spiritual teammates that have been given the benefit of the R/D are a bunch of happy campers, rather like a winning rugby team, all supporting each other in a common, understood cause, and enjoying the hell out of life.

So, before you show how either destructively prejudiced, or unethical you are, go do some courses and study the materials you are criticizing. That's the ethical and honest thing to do.

RogerB
 
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