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45 days in the Hole - DM Sadism

Anonycat

Crusader
From Marty's blog.


Quote:
The level of sadism DM had sunk to since my departure after four days into the Hole in Feb 2004 are enough to boggle any civilized mind. Not only did all of International Management (CMO INT and Exec Strata), and then CO FSO, but also the by-then holed CO FCB (Kirsti Wilhere), and President CSI (Heber Jenzscth – yes, the 75 year old plus several decade face of Scientology) were subjected to these inhumanities.

In the middle of summer 2007, when local temperature regularly rises well above 110 degrees, DM ordered the electricity in the Hole to be cut off for many days at a time. DM also ordered that the penniless Hole prisoners pay for their own food. What they paid for was, as one survivor described it, ”slop” or like “gruel” Oliver Twist style. For breakfast it was only oatmeal, and all other meals were slop. Everybody had to wait in line and pay before eating. There were more than one hundred people there.

The same Korean brainwashing technique of physically forcing Holers to give confessions to the group were still going on daily; a practice DM instituted in 1998, and intensified in late 2003. Remember again, this is mid 2007.

In order to add insult to injury, DM had U Haul trucks pull up outside, and U Haul boxes brought in to let all participants know he was serious with his threats, “I’m going offload all of you.” I am sure most would gladly have been offloaded, but after several years of mind torture they no doubt understood there was no way out.

On many occasions the Holee’s were ordered to run a few hundred yards to the Cine Conference room where DM held court during event preparations. He would interrupt whatever he was doing to go out to the front lawn where the Holees had to stand for high volume toastings and severe degradation adjustments. They had to stand at attention for receipt of long, profanity laced dress downs of some or all of them depending on his mood.

One day DM announced to the assembled in the Hole that Marc Yager (one time CO CMO INT/WDC Chairman) and Guillaume Lesevre (one time ED INT) were homosexual and were engaged in a gay relationship. To those who have read my full blog and Scientology-cult.com you’d know that by that time, DM had been alleging this to the entire crew for ten years. But, for Debbie, Kristie (exCO FCB) and Heber, it was news.

Debbie was there when DM announced that Tom Cruise would come the next day to “punch you guys out” if the one hundred Holee’s failed to get a confession out of Guillaume and Marc.

When DM left Jenny Linsen Devocht, Angie Blankenship, and Lisa Schroer (who were DM’s pets at the time, sort of in charge of the Hole while being Holed themselves) decided that the Holees collectively will “give some people some black eyes before Tom has to.” Russ Bellin (once CO CST) lead the charge of the bigger and stronger men in the hole who began the beat downs of Yager, Guillaume and Ray Mithoff (once Snr CS INT). The crew battered Marc, Guillaume and Ray. In the psychotic frenzy even Norman Starkey and Heber sustained some collateral damage. Debbie managed not to participate in the carnage.

When DM returned for a report, Lisa Schroer (who remained a DM pet throughout given her position as CO of Gold, that handles the only product he gives a damn about, Events) in her inimitable fashion, started embellishing the forced confessions allegedly gotten from Guillaume and Yager while under legally recognized conditions of torture. Lisa dutifully reported that Guillaume and Yager had in fact confessed to having a homosexual relationship.

Debbie tried to correct the report, interjecting that they never really confessed as Lisa was reporting. DM shut her up in a heartbeat. Once DM left, Lisa Schroer , who was a little more in charge of the Hole at the time than Jenny and Angie, briefed the Holees what a treasonous “bitch” Debbie was for “defending” Marc and Guillaume. She was accused of being “mutual out ruds” for having sided with the victims of torture. That included loud accusations from Lisa, Angie and Jenny that Debbie “must be a lesbo.”

For the next twelve hours Debbie was made to stand in a large garbage can and face one hundred people screaming at her demanding a confession as to her “homosexual tendancies”. While this was going on water was poured over her head. Signs were put around Debbie’s neck, one marked in magic marker “LESBO” while this torture proceeded. Debbie was repeatedly slapped across the face by other women in the room during the interrogation. Debbie never did break. And fittingly she was rewarded with what turned out to be a break in another sense of the word.

When I confirmed all of these facts with multiple sources, I knew without a doubt there was no turning back for me.

I well remember the purpose of the Sea Org.
COMMENT MADE BY MIKE RINDER:
Marty,

As you know, this is unfortunately merely a brief glimpse of the insanity and only touches on the mental and physical torture that was rained down on the “Holees”.

Right now, you are the loudest voice raised in protest over the barbarisms of DM — but soon there will be such a roar, coming from so many sources, it will be deafening.

The media may be worried about the threats they get over reporting these atrocities (because the “Holees”, just like Korean prisoners of war write affidavits that say it “never happened”), but soon that too will fall by the wayside as they cannot ignore the number of people confirming these hideous facts.

Of one thing we can all be absolutely certain — the truth WILL prevail, no matter how long it takes. It’s just a matter of persisting and you set the finest example there can be of carrying on in the face of incredible odds.

Thanks again for all you do.

Mike
 

rhill

Patron with Honors


DM should have stuck to L. Ron Hubbard's legacy and lock children in filthy chain lockers for days at a time, letting them soil themselves (Among other spiritual punishments..)

His post makes me wonder: What level of sadism did Marty Rathbun assign to LRH?
 

Wisened One

Crusader
Wow. :no: Wow. :no: :puke2:

And Tom Cruise used to punch and cause black eyes? I believe that! :angry: 'Cuz Tom seems like the type to be 'whipped by DM, he does! :yes:
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
And Tom Cruise used to punch and cause black eyes? I believe that! :angry: 'Cuz Tom seems like the type to be 'whipped by DM, he does! :yes:

The entire story isn't given there. There is no evidence (I know of) that TC actually did such a thing.

Paul
 

thefiredragon

Patron Meritorious
From Marty's blog.


Quote:
The level of sadism DM had sunk to since my departure after four days into the Hole in Feb 2004 are enough to boggle any civilized mind. Not only did all of International Management (CMO INT and Exec Strata), and then CO FSO, but also the by-then holed CO FCB (Kirsti Wilhere), and President CSI (Heber Jenzscth – yes, the 75 year old plus several decade face of Scientology) were subjected to these inhumanities.

In the middle of summer 2007, when local temperature regularly rises well above 110 degrees, DM ordered the electricity in the Hole to be cut off for many days at a time. DM also ordered that the penniless Hole prisoners pay for their own food. What they paid for was, as one survivor described it, ”slop” or like “gruel” Oliver Twist style. For breakfast it was only oatmeal, and all other meals were slop. Everybody had to wait in line and pay before eating. There were more than one hundred people there.

The same Korean brainwashing technique of physically forcing Holers to give confessions to the group were still going on daily; a practice DM instituted in 1998, and intensified in late 2003. Remember again, this is mid 2007.

In order to add insult to injury, DM had U Haul trucks pull up outside, and U Haul boxes brought in to let all participants know he was serious with his threats, “I’m going offload all of you.” I am sure most would gladly have been offloaded, but after several years of mind torture they no doubt understood there was no way out.

On many occasions the Holee’s were ordered to run a few hundred yards to the Cine Conference room where DM held court during event preparations. He would interrupt whatever he was doing to go out to the front lawn where the Holees had to stand for high volume toastings and severe degradation adjustments. They had to stand at attention for receipt of long, profanity laced dress downs of some or all of them depending on his mood.

One day DM announced to the assembled in the Hole that Marc Yager (one time CO CMO INT/WDC Chairman) and Guillaume Lesevre (one time ED INT) were homosexual and were engaged in a gay relationship. To those who have read my full blog and Scientology-cult.com you’d know that by that time, DM had been alleging this to the entire crew for ten years. But, for Debbie, Kristie (exCO FCB) and Heber, it was news.

Debbie was there when DM announced that Tom Cruise would come the next day to “punch you guys out” if the one hundred Holee’s failed to get a confession out of Guillaume and Marc.

When DM left Jenny Linsen Devocht, Angie Blankenship, and Lisa Schroer (who were DM’s pets at the time, sort of in charge of the Hole while being Holed themselves) decided that the Holees collectively will “give some people some black eyes before Tom has to.” Russ Bellin (once CO CST) lead the charge of the bigger and stronger men in the hole who began the beat downs of Yager, Guillaume and Ray Mithoff (once Snr CS INT). The crew battered Marc, Guillaume and Ray. In the psychotic frenzy even Norman Starkey and Heber sustained some collateral damage. Debbie managed not to participate in the carnage.

When DM returned for a report, Lisa Schroer (who remained a DM pet throughout given her position as CO of Gold, that handles the only product he gives a damn about, Events) in her inimitable fashion, started embellishing the forced confessions allegedly gotten from Guillaume and Yager while under legally recognized conditions of torture. Lisa dutifully reported that Guillaume and Yager had in fact confessed to having a homosexual relationship.

Debbie tried to correct the report, interjecting that they never really confessed as Lisa was reporting. DM shut her up in a heartbeat. Once DM left, Lisa Schroer , who was a little more in charge of the Hole at the time than Jenny and Angie, briefed the Holees what a treasonous “bitch” Debbie was for “defending” Marc and Guillaume. She was accused of being “mutual out ruds” for having sided with the victims of torture. That included loud accusations from Lisa, Angie and Jenny that Debbie “must be a lesbo.”

For the next twelve hours Debbie was made to stand in a large garbage can and face one hundred people screaming at her demanding a confession as to her “homosexual tendancies”. While this was going on water was poured over her head. Signs were put around Debbie’s neck, one marked in magic marker “LESBO” while this torture proceeded. Debbie was repeatedly slapped across the face by other women in the room during the interrogation. Debbie never did break. And fittingly she was rewarded with what turned out to be a break in another sense of the word.

When I confirmed all of these facts with multiple sources, I knew without a doubt there was no turning back for me.

I well remember the purpose of the Sea Org.
COMMENT MADE BY MIKE RINDER:

GEE!:ohmy:
I have to get in touch with Marty Rathbun on FB and ask him about it.
WOW!!!

After all, I knew DM is crazy but I never knew he is THAT crazy!

I knew DM will ignore my letters but this is just insane!!!I'm taking my words back when I said that I believe DM was not really SP.
 

smartone

My Own Boss


DM should have stuck to L. Ron Hubbard's legacy and lock children in filthy chain lockers for days at a time, letting them soil themselves (Among other spiritual punishments..)

His post makes me wonder: What level of sadism did Marty Rathbun assign to LRH?


What makes me laugh is in a Lecture called "Attitude and Conduct of Scientology" (4th London ACC 3 Nov 1955) LRH says:

“The most valuable asset we have, actually, is our ability to understand, to do the right thing, to be kind, to be decent. Well, I hate to unsettle a very stable datum, if it does unsettle it. But the only way anything ever does resolve is by letting your own kind heart reach through. That’s the only way it ever does solve. “And it never solves by being tough.”

But LRH locking young children in a chain locker for days is pretty tough. Sending an 8 months pregnant SO member to the RPF seems tough too. Regarding LRH, it seems like a case of "do as I say, not as I do".
 

Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
What makes me laugh is in a Lecture called "Attitude and Conduct of Scientology" (4th London ACC 3 Nov 1955) LRH says:

“The most valuable asset we have, actually, is our ability to understand, to do the right thing, to be kind, to be decent. Well, I hate to unsettle a very stable datum, if it does unsettle it. But the only way anything ever does resolve is by letting your own kind heart reach through. That’s the only way it ever does solve. “And it never solves by being tough.”

But LRH locking young children in a chain locker for days is pretty tough. Sending an 8 months pregnant SO member to the RPF seems tough too. Regarding LRH, it seems like a case of "do as I say, not as I do".


Maybe LRH realized he had been promoting the Christian thing to do and in 1967 he applied Danger to himself to clean up his act. :coolwink:
 

Blue Spirit

Silver Meritorious Patron
Mutiny

I've lost all respect for any of the guys in Int. Management as they have been
so implanted and spiritually destroyed that they look like a bunch of beaten dogs
collectively.
If they had any spirit left whatsoever they would have physically removed DM
in a deserved mutiny long ago.
Anything less in the height of Suppressive by being Reasonable.

Marty could have taken him out in self-defense. It might still happen but is
something of a moot point, being much too late.

The CO$ staff is one Sad bunch of courageless Sycophants.
 

Veda

Sponsor
What makes me laugh is in a Lecture called "Attitude and Conduct of Scientology" (4th London ACC 3 Nov 1955) LRH says:

“The most valuable asset we have, actually, is our ability to understand, to do the right thing, to be kind, to be decent..."

-snip Hubbardian smoke -

This statement was made in the middle of Hubbard's "Russian textbook" fraud, which had him and Dianetics/Scientology publicly positioned as patriotic and moral anti-communist humanitarians, and any critics or dissenters positioned as inhuman, immoral, and perverted anti-American communists or communist sympathizers.
 

yon8008

Patron with Honors
Wild Inspiration

These kinds of horror stories grab my attention in a kind of strange way.

A few years ago I had this recurring thought of starting a school, giving the students enough of the picture/game so that they could win... and having the administration create a progressively more and more restricting/controlling environment. The idea is that in real life, the ONLY FREE BEINGS are those that have enough POWER (ability to hold their position in space) to turn around a psychotic environment. The School Administration would continue the escalation of their control/oppress operation until enough of the students were mobilized into EFFECTIVE ACTION to end the abuse. Finally, with the administration cornered, and the students DEMONSTRATING their POWER and RESOLVE - with the students successfully bringing the abuse to a halt (probably on the verge of effective legal action) - the administration would reveal the game plan, and then show WHY it was done: Because THAT KIND OF POWER is NECESSARY to turn around the downward spiral going on in the world today.

---------------

Whenever there is systemic abuse/corruption/oppression/suppression it is ONLY possible because there is some MISSING TECH or OUT TECH that would allow rational beings to turn it around.
Who is cutting the comm?
Who is allowing comm to get cut?

Could it be as simple as "LOOK! This policy must be in place to increase a statistic. What statistic are we trying to increase? How does this policy increase that statistic?" Suddenly the irrationality/aberration comes into view.

------------------------

Here is some sci-fi rationalization for DMs actions:
In LRH's final moments with DM at his side whispers, "David, I have just discovered something terrible. OTXVI involves facing the source of all evil, and this can only be accomplished by a group... David, we're going to need about a million Super High Power Thetans to pull this off, if it's is even possible. We're going to need Thetans that can stand up to ... well... frankly it's too awful to describe. You are going to need to use every trick in your book to suppress our own... you are going to need to put them through hell...to get them to REALLY STAND UP. Those that you can cave in won't make it. OTXVI will break them if they're not ready. ... I wasn't ready."

---------------------
So while stories and rationalizations may be interesting and stimulating curiosa - it doesn't change the situation:

Honest Beings MUST learn how to make things GO RIGHT. And that includes USING every bit of tech we have available to do so. What areas of your life are backing off from handling? Do you have a network to help you keep your ethics in and your productivity up? Are you systematically improving your condition in life?

=====================
asside:
I often imagine attending an Anonymous event, wearing a V mask and holding up some signs: "Look at me. Who am I?" and "Who would I need to be to audit you?" or "What kind of Anon could you accept?"

There is Tech to be used.
---------------
But still, there is some missing tech: How do you go into a truly psychotic situation and BRING ORDER?

We need to get SOMEONE (may you) up to a level of Auditor Altitude where the Church of Scientology could be put into session.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Blue Spirit,

I hate to say this, honestly, but you know what, it's not just Int Management. Hubbard locked kids in chain lockers. That's just inexcusable. IMO, he set the precedent that Int Mgmt follows today.
 

yon8008

Patron with Honors
Wild Inspiration

These kinds of horror stories grab my attention in a kind of strange way.

A few years ago I had this recurring thought of starting a school, giving the students enough of the picture/game so that they could win... and having the administration create a progressively more and more restricting/controlling environment. The idea is that in real life, the ONLY FREE BEINGS are those that have enough POWER (ability to hold their position in space) to turn around a psychotic environment. The School Administration would continue the escalation of their control/oppress operation until enough of the students were mobilized into EFFECTIVE ACTION to end the abuse. Finally, with the administration cornered, and the students DEMONSTRATING their POWER and RESOLVE - with the students successfully bringing the abuse to a halt (probably on the verge of effective legal action) - the administration would reveal the game plan, and then show WHY it was done: Because THAT KIND OF POWER is NECESSARY to turn around the downward spiral going on in the world today.

---------------

Whenever there is systemic abuse/corruption/oppression/suppression it is ONLY possible because there is some MISSING TECH or OUT TECH that would allow rational beings to turn it around.
Who is cutting the comm?
Who is allowing comm to get cut?

Could it be as simple as "LOOK! This policy must be in place to increase a statistic. What statistic are we trying to increase? How does this policy increase that statistic?" Suddenly the irrationality/aberration comes into view.

------------------------

Here is some sci-fi rationalization for DMs actions:
In LRH's final moments with DM at his side whispers, "David, I have just discovered something terrible. OTXVI involves facing the source of all evil, and this can only be accomplished by a group... David, we're going to need about a million Super High Power Thetans to pull this off, if it's is even possible. We're going to need Thetans that can stand up to ... well... frankly it's too awful to describe. You are going to need to use every trick in your book to suppress our own... you are going to need to put them through hell...to get them to REALLY STAND UP. Those that you can cave in won't make it. OTXVI will break them if they're not ready. ... I wasn't ready."

---------------------
So while stories and rationalizations may be interesting and stimulating curiosa - it doesn't change the situation:

Honest Beings MUST learn how to make things GO RIGHT. And that includes USING every bit of tech we have available to do so. What areas of your life are backing off from handling? Do you have a network to help you keep your ethics in and your productivity up? Are you systematically improving your condition in life?

=====================
asside:
I often imagine attending an Anonymous event, wearing a V mask and holding up some signs: "Look at me. Who am I?" and "Who would I need to be to audit you?" or "What kind of Anon could you accept?"

There is Tech to be used.
---------------
But still, there is some missing tech: How do you go into a truly psychotic situation and BRING ORDER?

We need to get SOMEONE (may you) up to a level of Auditor Altitude where the Church of Scientology could be put into session.
 

nothomonovis

New Member
Blue Spirit,

I hate to say this, honestly, but you know what, it's not just Int Management. Hubbard locked kids in chain lockers. That's just inexcusable. IMO, he set the precedent that Int Mgmt follows today.

Agreed. And since I'm still pissed about it, I'll link the below as evidence of this concept:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=13877&page=6

The whole thread is rife with the most appalling levels of basic inhumanity - not necessarily in an outright way, but in it's very obliviousness to the relative value of life itself.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Scientology is Criminal
Criminal offenses are (supposed to be) handled by the police (various agencies)
Therefore: The solution to Scientology is police investigation. Everything else is good and may lead to that step, but, will inevitably be a side-show.

Strangely enough, Marty seems to be allowing discussion of criminal prosecution and even jail again. Whether because he just hasn't taken the time to remove the suggestions or, possibly, because it's obvious that it *will* be discussed and he's just gradiently trying to steer away from what he can't stop entirely or directly.

Time will tell.

Zinj
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
so Marty, did you file an affidavit with Law Enforcement?

If you had filed a criminal complaint back in 2004 things might not have escalated as they have.

Apparently, while weeping crocodile tears for those being assaulted you are merely promoting yourself via their pain.

Get of your backside - you helped create this thing, you have the power to at least bring it to a halt.

Well you would if you had any balls at all.
 

Blue Spirit

Silver Meritorious Patron
I Agree

Blue Spirit,

I hate to say this, honestly, but you know what, it's not just Int Management. Hubbard locked kids in chain lockers. That's just inexcusable. IMO, he set the precedent that Int Mgmt follows today.

I AGREE and even had a face-to-face with the originator of the

"Friends of LRH" site, but he can't look at the bad side of LRH because he

worships him :omg: AND is in both of LRH's valences including the BAD side.

The spiritual abuse I've been hit with from him is beyond most people's imaginations.

I've told him 3 times to his face that he's in LRH's valence/s.
He looks at me blankly. Hard to reach people in terror, if you get my drift.

Therefore I can imagine LRH's abuse and if I'd been on that ship I'd have given LRH hell for what he did, as John McMaster did.

MORE LATER.
 
I AGREE and even had a face-to-face with the originator of the

"Friends of LRH" site, but he can't look at the bad side of LRH because he

worships him :omg: AND is in both of LRH's valences including the BAD side.

The spiritual abuse I've been hit with from him is beyond most people's imaginations.

I've told him 3 times to his face that he's in LRH's valence/s.
He looks at me blankly. Hard to reach people in terror, if you get my drift.

Therefore I can imagine LRH's abuse and if I'd been on that ship I'd have given LRH hell for what he did, as John McMaster did.

MORE LATER.

Re: bolded above - this is hard to believe, given your willingness to promulgate some of his most destructive ideas.
 
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