The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But
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RogerB
Crusader
I have had plenty of experience post 1979. Just hitting a few high points here, before 1979 I learned to run only reading questions and items, F/N everything, and, ah, TR-3.
I learned to prepcheck by simply asking the question, then when the pc runs out of answers, check the question against the meter. Move on if no read.
For years it worked GREAT!
Then only running questions that read, it worked not so great. I argued with Class 8's over that, and argued with whomever was sitting in for LRH on the SO#1 line.
Last I heard from anyone at Flag, I was said to have been "squirreling in the field for years."
Oh, well...
I like your expanded prepcheck questions. They give pc's a lot to talk about without undue pressure.
My present attitude, one I have had for some time now, is that anything can be run whether it reads on meter or not as long as the pc is running what he is interested in and as long as he is not being overly controlled down some path that he feels is irrelevant. Also, it is not necessary to "F/N everything." It is only necessary for the auditor to run what pc is interested in running, and complete auditing cycles as best as possible.
A pressurized TR-3 creates synthetic valences of some people. They become someone else to be able to receive a session.
The last person I cleared I think I used TR-3 maybe once, and TR-4 just once. That says a lot for the willingness and trust of the pc, and pc+auditor being greater than bank.
Also, I might do a worksheet for my own guidance. When the processing is complete the sheets are destroyed -- excepting L&N's.
We don't need no stinking worksheets if we are auditing the pc in front of us, the pc who can change in a flash thus immediately stale-dating any C/S that might have been correct at start of session.
About Flag being the mecca of technical perfection...
Happy is the PC whose auditor processes him and not a bloody sheet of paper and supposed-to-do's.
R
afaceinthecrowd
Gold Meritorious Patron
Regarding Yvonne and El Ron's "Boots"
Lakey,
We are all helping each other…this thread, the POS thread and ESMB in general and most of the people on it have been elixir for me.
I first met Yvonne in the late ‘60’s. We twinned on TR’s (she was an absolute killer on TR 0 Bullbait). I fell in love with her then and I love her to this moment in time. Our paths crossed off and on up to shortly before she passed on. Yvonne was a real Scientologist per the definition. She was one of us and, in the end, El Ron’s MCCO construct and greed-based edifice burdened her greatly. This is the last post I’ll ever make about Yvonne of any substance…she was my friend and I miss her.
What El Ron was saying was, “I’ve got the Majick boots so follow me…or else!”
Lakey,
We are all helping each other…this thread, the POS thread and ESMB in general and most of the people on it have been elixir for me.
I first met Yvonne in the late ‘60’s. We twinned on TR’s (she was an absolute killer on TR 0 Bullbait). I fell in love with her then and I love her to this moment in time. Our paths crossed off and on up to shortly before she passed on. Yvonne was a real Scientologist per the definition. She was one of us and, in the end, El Ron’s MCCO construct and greed-based edifice burdened her greatly. This is the last post I’ll ever make about Yvonne of any substance…she was my friend and I miss her.
What El Ron was saying was, “I’ve got the Majick boots so follow me…or else!”
lkwdblds
Crusader
I don't know how much of my CCLA story you have read...
aface - First, what is the POS thread? I do not know how much of my CCLA thread you have read but despite Yvonne blocking me from being promoted I have written extremely fondly of her overall. The snubs to me personally pale in importance to all that she achieved. One has to admire an executive with the charisma, intention and dedication to her goal which she had. I saw her suffer under L Ron's MCCO when she had to take order from pipsqueek respresentatives from the G.O., the LRH Comm Network and the Flag Rep Network. I was the only one in the Org who saw her power was being taken away by the proliferation of these, for the most part silly. networks proliferating through all the Orgs. Inexperienced junior exec types, who were off the local Org Board and reported only to Flag, were starting to boss Yvonne around in her own Org. This was LRH Green on White Management tech at work and it was killing Yvonne. I saw this and was the only one in the Org who noticed it and immediately wrote to her about it and she called me in to get my personal views about it. I always supported and respected her all the way to the end.
Not only do I extoll her virtues repeatedly but the whole reason I got on the internet to study Scientology had to do with Yvonne not even being mentioned in the CC 30 year and 35 year commemorative magaizines. Not only did I research what happened but wrote the true story of the Origins and History of CC. Just Googol Celebrity Centre Story of Origin on Googol or Yahoo and you go right to the story of how Yvonne founded Celebrity Centre with co founder Purple Haze who reads and posts on this thread frequently. There is no other story which has any of the data which I presented. I was on CC lines myself from October of 1970 and the period before that when I was not present was filled in for me by Purple Haze, Dart Smohen and Yvonne's daughter Janice Grady. Less than a month ago, I spoke to former chief CCLA registrar Hector by phone and got some additional data which could be added to the story of its earliest days by I have not added it yet.
Like you, I stayed on good terms with Yvonne right up near the end of her life, having gone to the Fort Harrison in late 1977 for the first time and finding out that Yvonne was there. She came to visit me personally in my cabana room, being escorted by a male Sea Org aide and we talked for about 10 minutes. She did not look ill to me and did not tell me she was ill but just told me she was getting some new experimental auditing.
Like everyone else I talk about, I try to present the whole unbiased picture, not just some promo type picture. Because of journalistic integrity, I think that it is honest to mention that she blocked me very forcefully three times from being promoted and was determined to keep me in Treasury. I held no animous against her for doing this. If I really wanted out of Treasury Division at CCLA it was up to me to make it happen and eventually I did get out. Her game was to keep me there to help stabilize her Org. I did not hold that against her, not even in the slightest.
Facey, as Sweetness & Light has nicknamed you, I would sure like to know who you are. I am sure I have heard of you. My curiosity is really piqued.
Laley
Lakey,
We are all helping each other…this thread, the POS thread and ESMB in general and most of the people on it have been elixir for me.
I first met Yvonne in the late ‘60’s. We twinned on TR’s (she was an absolute killer on TR 0 Bullbait). I fell in love with her then and I love her to this moment in time. Our paths crossed off and on up to shortly before she passed on. Yvonne was a real Scientologist per the definition. She was one of us and, in the end, El Ron’s MCCO construct and greed-based edifice burdened her greatly. This is the last post I’ll ever make about Yvonne of any substance…she was my friend and I miss her.
What El Ron was saying was, “I’ve got the Majick boots so follow me…or else!”
aface - First, what is the POS thread? I do not know how much of my CCLA thread you have read but despite Yvonne blocking me from being promoted I have written extremely fondly of her overall. The snubs to me personally pale in importance to all that she achieved. One has to admire an executive with the charisma, intention and dedication to her goal which she had. I saw her suffer under L Ron's MCCO when she had to take order from pipsqueek respresentatives from the G.O., the LRH Comm Network and the Flag Rep Network. I was the only one in the Org who saw her power was being taken away by the proliferation of these, for the most part silly. networks proliferating through all the Orgs. Inexperienced junior exec types, who were off the local Org Board and reported only to Flag, were starting to boss Yvonne around in her own Org. This was LRH Green on White Management tech at work and it was killing Yvonne. I saw this and was the only one in the Org who noticed it and immediately wrote to her about it and she called me in to get my personal views about it. I always supported and respected her all the way to the end.
Not only do I extoll her virtues repeatedly but the whole reason I got on the internet to study Scientology had to do with Yvonne not even being mentioned in the CC 30 year and 35 year commemorative magaizines. Not only did I research what happened but wrote the true story of the Origins and History of CC. Just Googol Celebrity Centre Story of Origin on Googol or Yahoo and you go right to the story of how Yvonne founded Celebrity Centre with co founder Purple Haze who reads and posts on this thread frequently. There is no other story which has any of the data which I presented. I was on CC lines myself from October of 1970 and the period before that when I was not present was filled in for me by Purple Haze, Dart Smohen and Yvonne's daughter Janice Grady. Less than a month ago, I spoke to former chief CCLA registrar Hector by phone and got some additional data which could be added to the story of its earliest days by I have not added it yet.
Like you, I stayed on good terms with Yvonne right up near the end of her life, having gone to the Fort Harrison in late 1977 for the first time and finding out that Yvonne was there. She came to visit me personally in my cabana room, being escorted by a male Sea Org aide and we talked for about 10 minutes. She did not look ill to me and did not tell me she was ill but just told me she was getting some new experimental auditing.
Like everyone else I talk about, I try to present the whole unbiased picture, not just some promo type picture. Because of journalistic integrity, I think that it is honest to mention that she blocked me very forcefully three times from being promoted and was determined to keep me in Treasury. I held no animous against her for doing this. If I really wanted out of Treasury Division at CCLA it was up to me to make it happen and eventually I did get out. Her game was to keep me there to help stabilize her Org. I did not hold that against her, not even in the slightest.
Facey, as Sweetness & Light has nicknamed you, I would sure like to know who you are. I am sure I have heard of you. My curiosity is really piqued.
Laley
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Blue Spirit
Silver Meritorious Patron
Yvonne Returns ?
I read on the net not long ago (no link) that a young lady showed up at
C.C. claiming to be Yvonne next lifetime. She was rejected, much to her surprise I would suppose, rather than being put into session to have it checked out.
Very believable to this guy.
These things used to be common occurences, but now usually invalidated.
From the CO$, this is not surprising, is it ?
I read on the net not long ago (no link) that a young lady showed up at
C.C. claiming to be Yvonne next lifetime. She was rejected, much to her surprise I would suppose, rather than being put into session to have it checked out.
Very believable to this guy.
These things used to be common occurences, but now usually invalidated.
From the CO$, this is not surprising, is it ?
CarmeloOrchards
Crusader
from HuffPost
Michael Lewis is the author of Moneyball, Liars Poker, his new book, The Big Short is about the financial crisis nd a group that profited.
Michael Lewis, the celebrated author of "The Big Short," claims that about 40 or 50 House Republicans skipped a December hearing by Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke to spend three hours with him talking about the financial crisis.
And the lawmakers, who are members of the House Republican book club, were stunningly uninformed about major elements of the crisis, says Lewis, during a recent conversation with Vanity Fair editor Graydon Carter:
"And their questions were increasingly: 'Oh my God, Goldman Sachs did what? A.I.G. did what?' They didn't understand it ... At the end, there was smoke coming out of their ears. I thought they were going to go kill someone at the end of it,.. The minute they started to understand, they were outraged. And I think the more things are explained, the more outraged people will get."
At first, several dozen of the lawmakers told Lewis that they were going to leave early to attend the Bernanke hearing but they stayed because "they said, 'We never learn anything from him [Bernanke], he never explains anything to us'," according to Lewis. (If Lewis's account is correct, this is the hearing that the House Republicans skipped.
At the start of this video, Lewis jokes, "Can you believe the House Republicans have a book group?" To which Carter chimes in, "That they even have one?"
Michael Lewis is the author of Moneyball, Liars Poker, his new book, The Big Short is about the financial crisis nd a group that profited.
Michael Lewis, the celebrated author of "The Big Short," claims that about 40 or 50 House Republicans skipped a December hearing by Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke to spend three hours with him talking about the financial crisis.
And the lawmakers, who are members of the House Republican book club, were stunningly uninformed about major elements of the crisis, says Lewis, during a recent conversation with Vanity Fair editor Graydon Carter:
"And their questions were increasingly: 'Oh my God, Goldman Sachs did what? A.I.G. did what?' They didn't understand it ... At the end, there was smoke coming out of their ears. I thought they were going to go kill someone at the end of it,.. The minute they started to understand, they were outraged. And I think the more things are explained, the more outraged people will get."
At first, several dozen of the lawmakers told Lewis that they were going to leave early to attend the Bernanke hearing but they stayed because "they said, 'We never learn anything from him [Bernanke], he never explains anything to us'," according to Lewis. (If Lewis's account is correct, this is the hearing that the House Republicans skipped.
At the start of this video, Lewis jokes, "Can you believe the House Republicans have a book group?" To which Carter chimes in, "That they even have one?"
CarmeloOrchards
Crusader
Yvonne at the Fort Harrison
(this was told to me by Alan Walter about 14 years ago)
When Yvonne was at Flag, dying and getting auditing. Yvonne would get a session. Then sitting by the pool, Alan would run the session out on her. He took the charge off the wrong items and poor auditing that was being given her. He helped her to plan her next lifetime. She wanted to be on the west coast (of the USA).
(this is my conjecture, not something specific that Alan said) I think they reconnected in Dallas in the mid 90s.
(this was told to me by Alan Walter about 14 years ago)
When Yvonne was at Flag, dying and getting auditing. Yvonne would get a session. Then sitting by the pool, Alan would run the session out on her. He took the charge off the wrong items and poor auditing that was being given her. He helped her to plan her next lifetime. She wanted to be on the west coast (of the USA).
(this is my conjecture, not something specific that Alan said) I think they reconnected in Dallas in the mid 90s.
CarmeloOrchards
Crusader
Carol Ferguson
I think the last time I saw Carol Fergusun was when I was with Laurie Noonan in San Francisco near The Cannery. She (Carol) lived nearby. That was the early 1970s. Does anyone know where she is now, and how she's doing?
I think the last time I saw Carol Fergusun was when I was with Laurie Noonan in San Francisco near The Cannery. She (Carol) lived nearby. That was the early 1970s. Does anyone know where she is now, and how she's doing?
CarmeloOrchards
Crusader
Actually, as I look at that photo . . . . those folks just don't look happy!
Maybe it's the company they have as their leader?
R
These people are happy!
CarmeloOrchards
Crusader
In the late 60s or early 70s James Hare (don't call him Jimmy) wrote an HCOB titled "Composite Engrams." He noted when running R3R that some PCs run through the same incident over and over. I saw this myself on at least one PC that I had at the time.
A week or two ago, we were talking about the flip point where one goes from being a big happy thetan going in a positive direction FLIPPING into unhappy dead end victim etc.
If one takes a broad look at their life(s), they can find painful times where their life changed around. I don't mean it has to contain physical pain.
Whether one is going from positive to negative personality or from negative to positive personality, they have to traverse the Flip Point. The Flip Point contains 95% of the pain, terror, fear, anger, and painful emotion.
This is why it is hard for someone to go from being lazy to being productive.
But if one just scans their life, one can find a time where one of those flips occurred. Taking that time and running a full prepcheck on it will yield wonderful results.
A week or two ago, we were talking about the flip point where one goes from being a big happy thetan going in a positive direction FLIPPING into unhappy dead end victim etc.
If one takes a broad look at their life(s), they can find painful times where their life changed around. I don't mean it has to contain physical pain.
Whether one is going from positive to negative personality or from negative to positive personality, they have to traverse the Flip Point. The Flip Point contains 95% of the pain, terror, fear, anger, and painful emotion.
This is why it is hard for someone to go from being lazy to being productive.
But if one just scans their life, one can find a time where one of those flips occurred. Taking that time and running a full prepcheck on it will yield wonderful results.
lkwdblds
Crusader
Don't get me started on Carole Ferguson
If a finer, more decent person ever lived on Earth, I have yet to meet them. She appeared at CCLA in 1972 and was made Supervisor of the staff hatting college and she became a fixture on that post for all of 1972 and 1973. I left for the Apollo in October 1973 and never saw her or heard from her again. When I got back from the Apollo she was gone.
The only unusual thing I remember about her was that she made some kind of health food balls and sold them in the org for something like 2 for 50 cents. It was a concoction of dates, figs, sesame seeds, etc. rolled into a ball. I bought them from her many times.
While she was by no means ugly, she had no style to speak of. The best adjectives I can think of are that she was "plain" and maybe a bit frumpy. Of course she had no boyfriend or second dynamic but, of all people Wings (livingryte) Hauser seemed to take a fancy to her. He called her "teach" all the time and began flirting with her. As I said in my story, I am pretty sure that Wings had an affair with her because she changed over night, literally, and had a new glow of confidence in her eye.
Carole and I were a lot alike. We were serious and studious. We both dressed conservatively for CC staff, were both logical and never just let it all hang out. Of the two of us, I had a little more dash and flamboyance than she had. Our main quality which we shared was that of "what you see is what you get". Neither one of us put on any pretenses and were just being ourselves.
I always felt I should have hit up Carole to be my 2 D. She really liked me and the feeling was mutual. I just never asked her out because I wasn't attracted physically. I had two close female friends who were not 2 D's, Bev and Susan but they were both beauties. We hung out together all the time, especially Bev and I. Bev, my brother and I were like the 3 Mustketeers and were always hanging out together for 3 years. I did not even seek out Carole to be my non romantic girlfriend. Go figure! I would love to reconnect with her now. I would bring her flowers and tell her that she is one of the finest women I have ever met.
Lakey
If a finer, more decent person ever lived on Earth, I have yet to meet them. She appeared at CCLA in 1972 and was made Supervisor of the staff hatting college and she became a fixture on that post for all of 1972 and 1973. I left for the Apollo in October 1973 and never saw her or heard from her again. When I got back from the Apollo she was gone.
The only unusual thing I remember about her was that she made some kind of health food balls and sold them in the org for something like 2 for 50 cents. It was a concoction of dates, figs, sesame seeds, etc. rolled into a ball. I bought them from her many times.
While she was by no means ugly, she had no style to speak of. The best adjectives I can think of are that she was "plain" and maybe a bit frumpy. Of course she had no boyfriend or second dynamic but, of all people Wings (livingryte) Hauser seemed to take a fancy to her. He called her "teach" all the time and began flirting with her. As I said in my story, I am pretty sure that Wings had an affair with her because she changed over night, literally, and had a new glow of confidence in her eye.
Carole and I were a lot alike. We were serious and studious. We both dressed conservatively for CC staff, were both logical and never just let it all hang out. Of the two of us, I had a little more dash and flamboyance than she had. Our main quality which we shared was that of "what you see is what you get". Neither one of us put on any pretenses and were just being ourselves.
I always felt I should have hit up Carole to be my 2 D. She really liked me and the feeling was mutual. I just never asked her out because I wasn't attracted physically. I had two close female friends who were not 2 D's, Bev and Susan but they were both beauties. We hung out together all the time, especially Bev and I. Bev, my brother and I were like the 3 Mustketeers and were always hanging out together for 3 years. I did not even seek out Carole to be my non romantic girlfriend. Go figure! I would love to reconnect with her now. I would bring her flowers and tell her that she is one of the finest women I have ever met.
Lakey
CarmeloOrchards
Crusader
She used to sell Fuller Brush products also.
RogerB
Crusader
These people are happy!
Yeh, and this lot is probably up Tone from where they began! Or maybe down tone but are stupid enough as to not know the difference!
Gawd!! is this an example of the product they are pushing
Talk about FAIL !!!!
R
CarmeloOrchards
Crusader
afaceinthecrowd
Gold Meritorious Patron
Prepchecks
Thanks Carmelo...good stuff. As a PC I was very fond of Prepchecks. I've also had all the L4BRA's I'll ever want and all the Sec Checks I'll ever need...sheesh!
Thanks Carmelo...good stuff. As a PC I was very fond of Prepchecks. I've also had all the L4BRA's I'll ever want and all the Sec Checks I'll ever need...sheesh!
afaceinthecrowd
Gold Meritorious Patron
The Pause That Refreshes
Gang bang Sec Check team on a "session" break.
Gawd Carmelo, where do you come up with all this stuff!
These people are happy!
Gang bang Sec Check team on a "session" break.
Gawd Carmelo, where do you come up with all this stuff!
afaceinthecrowd
Gold Meritorious Patron
Chill Honey Bunny, Chill
Lakey,
Over the last few months I’ve read all your posts re: Yvonne. You’ve given her thoughtful, respectful and well written “props”. Your detailed recording here for all that have come—and will come—of personal, first hand insight of Yvonne and CCLA of that era is very valuable and a unique perspective.
My comments re: Yvonne were just that…my comments re: Yvonne.
I wish I could tell everyone out there “who I am” but I’ve already posted on another thread that I’ve got people still “in” that really I care about and I’m “holding my cards” close to my chest, for the time being. You may or may not have heard of me…I will tell you that I’ve never met you, Lakey.
I’m “groovin’ up slowly” on ESMB. I actually never thought I’d ever post here but the “Power of Source” “POS” thread just finally got to me…I knew information that would help folks understand why those guys in the “Stars” gotta bum rap and I finally said something. All of you “keep drawing me back in.”:wink2:
My posts are—to my own disappointment—judiciously edited.
I’ve received some “Friends” requests over the last 24 or so and—after a lot of thought and self-debate—decided that for now I should not accept any “Friends” requests. I know this all sounds rude—it certainly would appear that way to me—but, please let me explain:
I did not come to ESMB with the intention of getting involved. Besides my aforementioned reason for anonymity my life, as it is, does not allow me to spend a lot of time each week on this board. I would prefer what time I do have to be spent following threads of interest and post whenever something that I might be helpful with, or just can't resist—within boundaries I’ve set for myself—comes up.
I have one “Friend” right now, Carmelo—and that is due to a unique set of circumstances that are between us.
I hope you all understand. I consider all here my friend and I hope to be a friend to all of you. All of you have made me feel very welcome. However, for the time being, I wish to remain,
afaceinthecrowd
Lakey,
Over the last few months I’ve read all your posts re: Yvonne. You’ve given her thoughtful, respectful and well written “props”. Your detailed recording here for all that have come—and will come—of personal, first hand insight of Yvonne and CCLA of that era is very valuable and a unique perspective.
My comments re: Yvonne were just that…my comments re: Yvonne.
I wish I could tell everyone out there “who I am” but I’ve already posted on another thread that I’ve got people still “in” that really I care about and I’m “holding my cards” close to my chest, for the time being. You may or may not have heard of me…I will tell you that I’ve never met you, Lakey.
I’m “groovin’ up slowly” on ESMB. I actually never thought I’d ever post here but the “Power of Source” “POS” thread just finally got to me…I knew information that would help folks understand why those guys in the “Stars” gotta bum rap and I finally said something. All of you “keep drawing me back in.”:wink2:
My posts are—to my own disappointment—judiciously edited.
I’ve received some “Friends” requests over the last 24 or so and—after a lot of thought and self-debate—decided that for now I should not accept any “Friends” requests. I know this all sounds rude—it certainly would appear that way to me—but, please let me explain:
I did not come to ESMB with the intention of getting involved. Besides my aforementioned reason for anonymity my life, as it is, does not allow me to spend a lot of time each week on this board. I would prefer what time I do have to be spent following threads of interest and post whenever something that I might be helpful with, or just can't resist—within boundaries I’ve set for myself—comes up.
I have one “Friend” right now, Carmelo—and that is due to a unique set of circumstances that are between us.
I hope you all understand. I consider all here my friend and I hope to be a friend to all of you. All of you have made me feel very welcome. However, for the time being, I wish to remain,
afaceinthecrowd
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afaceinthecrowd
Gold Meritorious Patron
HCOHDB
I guess you didn't get the Hubbard Communication Office Hidden Data Bulliten re: "Past Lives".
I misplaced my copy...I think it was "neverememio", Black on Black
The gist of it was that the only past lives that are true and valid are El Ron's hisself. However, PC's and Pre OT's that wish to continue revivifing their false or unacceptable past lives should be encouraged to continue to do so via the re-sign line.
I guess you didn't get the Hubbard Communication Office Hidden Data Bulliten re: "Past Lives".
I misplaced my copy...I think it was "neverememio", Black on Black
The gist of it was that the only past lives that are true and valid are El Ron's hisself. However, PC's and Pre OT's that wish to continue revivifing their false or unacceptable past lives should be encouraged to continue to do so via the re-sign line.
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SweetnessandLight
Crusader
GOOOONNNNGGGGGGG!!!
Ay Dios Mio! That clarion gong you hear reverberating in the air is a call going forth out into the Universe...
"Apollo thread to Carole... Apollo thread to Carole... Come in Carole..."
If anyone knows her, get in touch and get her on here, pronto!
I can vouch that Lakey is a fine gentleman who won't bite! He is one heck of a good friend, too!
P.S. My Gramma used to make those health food cookies (no cook cookies) too! They were a bit gooey, but yummy!
Come on Carole, let us hear from you!
Ay Dios Mio! That clarion gong you hear reverberating in the air is a call going forth out into the Universe...
"Apollo thread to Carole... Apollo thread to Carole... Come in Carole..."
If anyone knows her, get in touch and get her on here, pronto!
I can vouch that Lakey is a fine gentleman who won't bite! He is one heck of a good friend, too!
P.S. My Gramma used to make those health food cookies (no cook cookies) too! They were a bit gooey, but yummy!
Come on Carole, let us hear from you!
SweetnessandLight
Crusader
Will consider you a friend...
It's o.k. Facey, we understand...
...Here's to the day that we all can just be ourselves, with no fears of harm or repercussions from the COS.
I'm glad you're here, keep reading and posting...it really does help people!
It's o.k. Facey, we understand...
...Here's to the day that we all can just be ourselves, with no fears of harm or repercussions from the COS.
I'm glad you're here, keep reading and posting...it really does help people!
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