The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[Terril park]

As time went forward El Ron added on top of his MCCO Model a Rube Goldberg series of whistle’s and bells like the Flag Rep Network, the FBO Network, etc. But his ne plus ultra add on “tech” was the vaunted FEBC with the Production Officer/Organizing Officer System, which was later “reconciled” with his other “Breakthrough” the Establishment Officer System.

The net effect of the FEBC system was to inject “Steroids” into an inherently flawed MCCO Model. The name of that “Steroid” was ACT—Artificially Compressed Time.

I'm an ex FEBC student. I never studied any other management writing,
though read about how revered Deining was in japan. I believe he originated the " just in time " model now universally used.

Also I believe I recall adverts where BMW claimed 20% of the workforce were " qual."

One thing that now stands out as very flawed in theory is the idea
of the product officer rampaging around getting short term stats up, whilst
the org officer went around putting things back in place.

Was there any time or place whether in or out of COS that this worked?

 

[lkwdblds]

I did the same "overt" on several occasions>

afaceinthecrowd, you are absolutely spot-on on your analysis of Ron's admin tech.

One thing that drove me nuts was seeing people go through huge amounts of effort to get a product to happen before Thursday at 2pm, when it would have happened by itself later Thursday or Friday.

I had one SO post where I just decided that I preferred a steady normal (which would get me liberty) to an affluence (which would not get me more than normal would), so around the middle of the week, if it looked like I would get my normal early, I would try to push stuff into counting in the following week.

Enthetan, I did the same "overt" on several occasions. Also, on the Thursday at 2:00 PM horseshit, I have a good little anectdote. Our Cashier, Mark, was very out Ethics at CCLA. One time, he had been in touch with a former staff member, Tom, and was trying to collect about $1,000 from him on his old staff Freeloader bill. Mark took a day off during the week and somehow, Tom called in and I took call; he said he had the $1,000 ready to go and what should he do, mail it in or go to the bank and have it wired. He was out of state and he told me that the Org would have to pay the wiring fee of $9 so I told him to just mail it in. A staff member only earned $10 a week so why throw away $9 just to have the money one to two days earlier.

The next day, I believe it was Wednesday, Mark came back in from his day off and just happened to ask me if anyone heard from Tom. I told Mark the story of what happened yesterday. Mark called me a jerk and insisted we had to get the money in by Thursday at 2:00. He called Tom but Tom said he had already mailed the check. Mark told Tom to stop payment on the check and to go to his bank and wire the money. We now also had to pay Tom's $5 Stop Payment fee so we wired Tom $14 by Western Uniion which also cost us a fee. Tom went to his bank and wired the Money to Mark. Mark got a 5% commission on everything he collected during that period around late 1972. He proudly told Yvonne about the cycle and did not even mention that I had participated in any way. He incurred around $20 in added charges to get the money there by Thursday and collected his $50 commission. I was not going to take any commission for setting up the payment even though I could have by just writing a Purchase Order for it. Per Policy, the FP committee would have had to approve my purchase order. $50 was five weeks pay, and I spent less than 5 minutes on the phone and I thought it would be out exchange if I accepted the $50. Go figure, I was being shunned and blocked from promotions and Mark was receiving raves and being called the best Cashier on the Planet.
Lakey

 

[Ted]

Just as an aside, which seems to have been forgotten:

"LRH studied at Princeton University."

Yes he did. From what I have read of this episode - at the beginning of the war and with all the expansion in the armed forces that was going on, the US military was short on space and rented some from Princeton that was not then required by the university. The army (or navy or whoever) set up some courses there on military administration for newly liberated areas in the Pacific. And LRH attended such a course there, run by the US military, at Princeton. Hence "I studied at Princeton University" is a "true" statement. But the course was not part of the Princeton curriculum and was not part of the actual university program. It was a military program. But he certainly did study at "Princeton".

In the same way I can legitmately say that I studied at Oxford. I did. There is a town called Oxford not far from here in New Zealand and when passing through it once I stopped to study a road map.

Ergo: I studied at Oxford.

I "studied" at UC Berkley during the Vietnam era. I have conducted similar studies elsewhere off-campus, too.

 

[Ted]

I'm an ex FEBC student. I never studied any other management writing,
though read about how revered Deining was in japan. I believe he originated the " just in time " model now universally used.

Also I believe I recall adverts where BMW claimed 20% of the workforce were " qual."

One thing that now stands out as very flawed in theory is the idea
of the product officer rampaging around getting short term stats up, whilst
the org officer went around putting things back in place.

Was there any time or place whether in or out of COS that this worked?

US Army in battle conditions. The commanding general pushes forward while the supply corp organizes to keep the front lines moving. It should be noted that the system, while effective in war, is also brutal.

 

[AnonKat]

Enthetan, I did the same "overt" on several occasions. Also, on the Thursday at 2:00 PM horseshit, I have a good little anectdote. Our Cashier, Mark, was very out Ethics at CCLA. One time, he had been in touch with a former staff member, Tom, and was trying to collect about $1,000 from him on his old staff Freeloader bill. Mark took a day off during the week and somehow, Tom called in and I took call; he said he had the $1,000 ready to go and what should he do, mail it in or go to the bank and have it wired. He was out of state and he told me that the Org would have to pay the wiring fee of $9 so I told him to just mail it in. A staff member only earned $10 a week so why throw away $9 just to have the money one to two days earlier.

The next day, I believe it was Wednesday, Mark came back in from his day off and just happened to ask me if anyone heard from Tom. I told Mark the story of what happened yesterday. Mark called me a jerk and insisted we had to get the money in by Thursday at 2:00. He called Tom but Tom said he had already mailed the check. Mark told Tom to stop payment on the check and to go to his bank and wire the money. We now also had to pay Tom's $5 fee Stop Payment fee so we wired Tom $14 by Western Uniion which also cost us a fee. Tom went to his bank and wired the Money to Mark. Mark got a 5% commission on everything he collected during that period around late 1972. He proudly told Yvonne about the cycle and did not even mention that I had participated in any way. He incurred around $20 in added charges to get the money there by Thursday and collected his $50 commission. I was not going to take any commission for setting up the payment even though I could have by just writing a Purchase Order for it. Per Policy, the FP committee would have had to approve my purchase order. $50 was five weeks pay, and I spent less than 5 minutes on the phone and I thought it would be out exchange if I accepted the $50. Go figure, I was being shunned and blocked from promotions and Mark was receiving raves and being called the best Cashier on the Planet.
Lakey

Details on Mark please Is he still in ?

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Yes!

US Army in battle conditions. The commanding general pushes forward while the supply corp organizes to keep the front lines moving. It should be noted that the system, while effective in war, is also brutal.

Exactly!

 

[lkwdblds]

Great Point - Very Funny!

I "studied" at UC Berkley during the Vietnam era. I have conducted similar studies elsewhere off-campus, too.

Great point Leon! I studied in Berlin last summer. I wanted to take a train from Berlin to Vienna and I studied all the various times, routes and prices that were available right there in the Berlin main train station (Hauptbanhof). When an attractive woman walks down the street, I am a student of anatomy. Remember how Groucho Marks reacted if an attractive woman entered a room where he was, the eyebows would start going up and down. I guess we are all students of life!....Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

Mark left the same day the bonus plan was cancelled.

Details on Mark please Is he still in ?

Mark Ambrose's bonus plan lasted about 4 or 5 months. He made as high as $700 a week in 1973 money. There was also a bonus for the amount of TA divisions which the C/Ses obtained during the week and a Registrar bonus. The week Mark made $700, Hector made about $500. One week Don Keeler, the C/S made around $700. I had to desburse this money and it made me sick. The rest of us got our $10. Even Yvonne only made $25 or $30.

Mark Ambrose was so out Ethics, I had a Chevron oil credit card and they offered a new pocket calculator for $100 and I got one on my credit card. The pocket calulators had just come on the market about that time and they were expensive. $100 then was about $450 now. The calculators only had the very basic keys, nothing fancy. Today, the very basic calculator can be purchased for may $3. Well, Mark wanted one and asked me to buy it on my Chevron Card and said that he would pay me pack. I bought it for him and then he refused to pay me back. Week after week he had a lame excuse why he could not pay me. The week he got $700 I just put $600 in his pay envelope and put $100 in another envelope. He counted his money and asked me where his other $100 was. I held up the envelope with the $100 and said, I figured that with such a high bonus, this would be a good time to settle up between us. He said no, this was not a good week, he had just purchased a new stereo system and needed the cash to pay for it. After about 3 more weeks and me being dunned by Chevron, I talked to my "senior" Kitty and she said that Mark was the top Cashier on the planet and could not be disciplined because his stats were up. I said Kitty, what he did is just plain theft, I don't care what his stats are. If someone doesn't discipline him, he will go even more criminal. She said, nope, his stats are up so he is left alone. I went to see Margaret George the MAA and she backed up Mark. Right in the middle of this, I was called to Flag. Just before I left for Flag, I went to see him about the matter. He said that it was a bad week for him, his rent was due, blah de blah. What I saw is that what he was thinking is, just a few more days and this sucker will be gone and he'll stop bugging me for this $100.

While I was on Flag, his bonus program was cancelled. After he picked up his last pay check, Mark quit staff and quit being a Scientologist. He was out the door in just hours and never heard from again. Whew, what a Degraded Being that guy was! The whole time, people there just were not capable of looking and blindly gave him Ethics protection. By the way, Chevron cancelled my credit card while I was on Flag. I had finally paid them off before leaving for Flag but they cancelled me anyway due to all the hassle I had caused them.
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

Mark left the same day the bonus plan was cancelled.

Details on Mark please Is he still in ?

Lakey

....Sorry - Double Posting..........

 

[Ted]

Mark left the same day the bonus plan was cancelled.

Everyone should leave the day their bonus plan gets cancelled.

 

[lkwdblds]

Besides Ted's Wartime example, Here is a Scio example

I'm an ex FEBC student. I never studied any other management writing,
though read about how revered Deining was in japan. I believe he originated the " just in time " model now universally used.

Also I believe I recall adverts where BMW claimed 20% of the workforce were " qual."

One thing that now stands out as very flawed in theory is the idea
of the product officer rampaging around getting short term stats up, whilst
the org officer went around putting things back in place.

Was there any time or place whether in or out of COS that this worked?

In addition to Ted's example of front line troups acting as product officers in warfare while the troops bringing up the ammo and the supplies served as organizing officers, I have a Scientology anecdote.

Around August 1973 at CCLA, they began implementing the Organizing Officer / Product Officer system of Management. Yvonne was the Product Officer of the Org and Irene Derman was made the Organizing Officer. The idea was to have two different chains of command and an Org Officer and Product Officer for each division on the Org Board. I was getting fed up with being blocked for all promotions and demanded to be promoted. I wrote Yvonne a letter that unless I got a promotion within a certain time frame, I would route out. I was called in to see Yvonne and Irene and they announced they were promoting me to Treasury Organizing Officer. I would be considered an executive and attend all exec meetings and report to Irene instead of Kitty who would remain Treasury Secretary, the Product Officer of Treasury.

There was a hitch of course. Until I could find a replacement for my Director of Disbursements post, I would still have to do that post from above and would still report to Kitty as Dir of Disbursements while reporting to Irene as Treasury Organizing Officer. If I could find a replacement for DIsbursements, I would be free of Kitty as my boss and be an Executive.

I began studying the LRH Product / Organizing Officer theory and did so for about one full month. I liked the concept of Product / Organizing in each division and for the org as a whole. I found the taped lectures by LRH on the new system to be brilliant - at least that was my reaction at that time. I was told that the theory included the concept that the Product Officer was the Senior and most important of the two divisions of duty but the Organizing Officer was of nearly equal altitude. In this system, Yvonne still outranked Irene and Kitty would still outrank me. The idea was to do both functions with product being slightly senior to organizing.

STATED GOAL OF THE SYSTEM The stated goal of the system was to get Orgs out of the COPE system so prevalent in all orgs. All Orgs at that time were mainly run by putting out fires. There were always emergencies which needed handling on a NOW basis. We would all COPE and handle an emergency and then move to the next disaster and handle that emergency and so forth. LRH believed that if enough Organization was put into usage, the Orgs could get out of continuous COPE. He was aware that Orgs were being run on a COPE and HANDLE basis and had a desire to be more organized.

HOW COMMITTED WAS LRH TO HIS OWN PRODUCT OFFICER / ORGANIZING OFFICER SYSTEM?
A quick recap of ensuing events shows just how committed he was to get his Orgs more organized. After one month as Treasury Organizing Officer, I was pulled out of Celebrity Centre LA and ordered to Flag to be a purchasing officer in their Treasury. One Week later, LRH personally removed Irene Derman from her post as Organizing Officer of CCLA and transferred her to be the Commanding Officer of ASHO Day, a Product Officer type of post. In two strokes of his pen, all efforts to get CCLA more organized came to an end.

SUMMARY - LRH could give taped lectures and write policies on the need for the Orgs to get out of COPE and PUTTING OUT FIRES. To achieve this, he developed a whole technology called the PRODUCT / ORGANIZING OFFICER MANAGEMENT SYSTEM. Once his writing and theoies existed and the system started to be put in place in at least one major Org, CCLA, and probably the othe Orgs as well, he instantly shifted gears and quickly unmocked the implementation of his new system !!! This is LRH in action. Though he had an awareness of the need to organize, he simply would not allow his Orgs to organize and operate efficiently. No, Thursday at 2:00 PM would continue to rear its hideous head, the Orgs would always move from one catastrophy to the next putting out fires and making enemies of staff, public and non Scientologists as they did it. The horrendous management system which they are operating with currently and calling it gold when it is really shit, is no accident. It is exactly what Hubbard designed and put into place. Various write ups which he did to upgrade and improve his terrible system were ultimately discarded and/ or blocked from being implemented by him and nobody else but him and were not put into use.
Lakey.

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Thanks, Folks

There’s been some real good comments made to my OEC/FEBC post and points made that I was leading up to…thanks.

Ted: You nailed it re: battle conditions. The classic Model for a military organization is MCCO and the FEBC system is a bastardized version of battle conditions operations. The FEBC Model hyper-reinforces the inherent flaws in El Ron’s OEC MCCO Model. There are innumerable pressure points that come to bear on every staff member of the Model and keeps the entire operation in an artificially created “Battle Conditions” mode. The stresses that build up wear down personnel and tear up resources. Bad decisions are made and stupid systems are laid in that only further the desperation. Of course I suppose El Ron figured this was OK (if the thought ever occurred to Hisself at all) because there was the Red on White “tech” to “fix them up and make Uber-Thetans out of them”. Or, maybe El Ron just wanted the rest of us to be as Mad and Desperate and at "War" as Hisself was.

Lakey: You're right re: the system not working without Religious Tax Exempt Status, Religious "Cloaking" and virtual slave labor; Hisself's OEC MCCO Model is one of the reasons that is so. Also, El Ron’s bastardization was top-heavy and provided no working capital nor development capital for the Org. So, the only real Assets in an org was the building (if it was owned), the books and materials (of which all the sales went into a separate HCO Book Account), furniture and equipment (which was usually inferior) and, Ta Da!, The staff’s willingness, training and experience and the Field (Goodwill). Al R&D, New Products, Improved Products, etc. came from El Ron and were “implemented” by Hisself's bloated Flag Networks Model and the Orgs paid dearly for this “Service”.

Enthetan: I agree re: 2:00 PM Thursday. El Ron’s whole stat system reinforced Artificially Compressed Time and was one of Hisself's worst bastardizations of the ideas of others that actually knew what they were doing. The system was simple line graphs only, focusing on simple trends. There is no Scatter Plotting, Matrixes (such as Motivation/Needs), Demographic Flow Dynamics Mapping, Factor Analysis, Interdependence Ratios, Operations and Flow Analysis Templates and a plethora of other proven statistical tools. I ran a few Orgs and was the Supercargo (HES) and D/CO of some others. I realized that many staff members were caught in a vicious loop of Emergency/Affluence and Danger/Power. This was due to El Ron’s faulty Model and "add-on's". I stopped the 2:00 Thursday insanity and all my Orgs did very well statistically over time. The staff respected me and each other, with the exception of the Flag Reps, FBO’s, LRH Comm’s, Programs Chiefs, etc.—it drove them batty because they’d pound on me but couldn’t touch me because, overall, the stats were consistently up. Whenever I was in a position where I got bonuses I shared them with my staff as, without them, I had nothing—worked like a charm. My staff knew I was "fading the heat" for them and they responded with consistent performance and support. All this did, however, get me in a whole lot of trouble eventually with the CMO, which was another thing in my “Craw” when I walked away.

Thanks for all your good input…more later.

Face

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

There’s been some real good comments made to my OEC/FEBC post and points made that I was leading up to…thanks.

Ted: You nailed it re: battle conditions. The classic Model for a military organization is MCCO and the FEBC system is a bastardized version of battle conditions operations. The FEBC Model hyper-reinforces the inherent flaws in El Ron’s OEC MCCO Model. There are innumerable pressure points that come to bear on every staff member of the Model and keeps the entire operation in an artificially created “Battle Conditions” mode. The stresses that build up wear down personnel and tear up resources. Bad decisions are made and stupid systems are laid in that only further the desperation. Of course I suppose El Ron figured this was OK (if the thought ever occurred to him at all) because there was the Red on White “tech” to “fix them up and make Uber-Thetans out of them”. Or, maybe he just wanted the rest of us to be as Mad and Desperate and at "War" as he was.

Lakey: You're right re: the system not working without Religious Tax Exempt Status, Religious "Cloaking" and virtual slave labor. The MCCO Model is one of the reasons that is so. Also, El Ron’s bastardization was top-heavy and provided no working capital nor development capital for the Org. So, the only real Assets in an org was the building (if it was owned), the books and materials (of which all the sales went into a separate HCO Book Account), furniture and equipment (which was usually inferior) and, Ta Da!, The staff’s willingness, training and experience and the Field (Goodwill). Al R&D, New Products, Improved Products, etc. came from El Ron and were “implemented” by Hisself's bloated Flag Networks Model and the Orgs paid dearly for this “Service”.

Entheatan: I agree re: 2:00 PM Thursday. El Ron’s whole stat system reinforced Artificially Compressed Time and was one of his worst bastardizations of the ideas of others that actually knew what they were doing. The system was simple line graphs only, focusing on simple trends. There is no Scatter Plotting, Matrixes (such as Motivation/Needs), Demoghrafic Flow Dynamics Mapping, Factor Analysis, Interdenpence Ratios and a plethora of other proven statistical tools. I ran a few Orgs and was the Supercargo (HES) and D/CO of some others. I realized that many staff members were caught in a vicious loop of Emergency/Affluence and Danger/Power. This was due to El Ron’s faulty Model and "add-on's". I stopped the 2:00 Thursday insanity and all my Orgs did very well statistically over time. The staff respected me and each other, with the exception of the Flag Reps, FBO’s, LRH Comm’s, Programs Chiefs, etc.—it drove them batty because they’d pound on me but couldn’t touch me because, overall, the stats were consistently up. Whenever I was in a position where I got bonuses I shared them with my staff as, without them, I had nothing—worked like a charm. My staff knew I was "fading the heat" for them and they responded with consistent performance and support. All this did, however, get me in a whole lot of trouble eventually with the CMO, which was another thing in my “Craw” when I walked away.

Thanks for all your good input…more later.

Face

Keep those truth bullets coming!

 

[Leon]

You are right in saying that the Prodduct Officer/Org Officer system is based on the military, but is is really more basic than you are suggesting. The system has been in use in various militaries since Roman times - the NCOs make the army while the officers use the army. Done correctly, it is a very useful and workable system. But not in Orgs.

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

I Agree

You are right in saying that the Prodduct Officer/Org Officer system is based on the military, but is is really more basic than you are suggesting. The system has been in use in various militaries since Roman times - the NCOs make the army while the officers use the army. Done correctly, it is a very useful and workable system. But not in Orgs.

Thank you, Leon. You are correct and state it well...I appreciate your comment. My intended inference was that El Ron's bastardization kept things at "battle conditions" timbre. Like I said earlier...I could make this a "Treatise" but I'm just not gonna take the time to do that. Perhaps together we can all make this a "Treatise".

Face

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Two Kinds of Drovers

Keep those truth bullets coming!

OK, Carmelo...will do. There are two kinds of drovers; The Quick and The Dead.

Face

 

[Enthetan]

Thank you, Leon. You are correct and state it well...I appreciate your comment. My intended inference was that El Ron's bastardization kept things at "battle conditions" timbre. Like I said earlier...I could make this a "Treatise" but I'm just not gonna take the time to do that. Perhaps together we can all make this a "Treatise".

Face

There are times when I wonder if Scientology was one big CIA experiment, to find out how much stress a group could take, and for how long before people cracked.

 

[Blue Spirit]

CIA

There are times when I wonder if Scientology was one big CIA experiment, to find out how much stress a group could take, and for how long before people cracked.

Might be from some point, as Heber and DM were on a master list of CIA contacts that is posted somewhere
(link in my crashed computer)
which was issued by a dying ex-CIA guy.

Sort of a moot point though as the experiment was carried out anyway and there are numerous people to attest to the insanities and stress of the group, including myself.

 

[lkwdblds]

We made it to 60,000 views!

Our views passed 60,000 just now! Congratulations are in order for Carmelo as well as myself. Every 10K is a milestone. I really want to acknowledge Facey. His appearance on this thread a few weeks ago invigorated the thread and returned us to discussions of the topic mentioned in its name.

SOME STRAY THOUGHTS TO NOTE OUR ACHEIVING 60k
This morning on ESMB, I read some postings by Geir Isene oF Norway. He is tracking right there with us as far as the goings on with C of S management. He did a fantastic Doubt formula before leaving C of S in August of 2009.

On the LRH issue, he is a Freezoner and is firmly in the camp that LRH tech, when properly applied, leads to true spiritual gains. I believed that myself for many years. I had real doubts about the Green on White, Management Tech, but felt Red on White produced big wins on a one for one basis. If you are on ESMB any length of time, your perception of LRH and his tech just has to take a hit. Whether you defend parts of the tech, especially the lower levels of the tech, or you condemn it all as crap seems to be something difficult for many to decide on. Violent arguments take place from opposing viewpoints.

I read an article by Joe Van Staden recently that helped me resolve this conflict. I had wins receiving applications of the tech and helped others by delivering portions of the tech. Being as impartial as possible and looking as deeply as possible, I just can not come to deny those successful applications. Van Staden's short article described better than anything else I have read, why and how those perceived gains may have taken place.

In a nutshell his is saying that if a person believes something strongly in their mind, that something will tend to work for them. People believe in Jesus or in Islam, or in various motivational speakers such as Tony Robbins or perhaps Dale Carnegie of the past, or in the Book of Mormon or in Scientology tech or in psychiatric drugs. When you believe strongly in something, and practice it by the book, usually you will receive what you interpret to be positive gains.

When dealing with spiritual beings, who is to say what positive gains are? If a guy sits inside a building shaped like a pyramid and claims he can predict the future, who is to say that it is not working for him. Its like the predictions of Nostradamus, knowing all his writings does not help you in the least, but after a war or some natural catastrophe occurs, you can then look through Nostradamus's work and you will find something which resembles what took place and then claim that he predicted it. The old maxim, "If its true for you its true." seems itself to be true.

I believe that there is room for both camps to exist simultaneously. Geir Isene feels LRH tech has high efficacy, more power to him. Others feel it is completely worthless and is a total con game, no problem - that is an interesting viewpoint and something to consider. Besides those two extremes, there are those with every shade of grey in between. Then finally, there are those such as Roger and in a different way, Vinnaire, who are studying and trying hard to find and make known truly valid mental and spiritual technologies. It is a big game and very exciting to be a part of!
Lakey

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

I'm "The Fool on the Hill"

Our views passed 60,000 just now! Congratulations are in order for Carmelo as well as myself. Every 10K is a milestone. I really want to acknowledge Facey. His appearance on this thread a few weeks ago invigorated the thread and returned us to discussions of the topic mentioned in its name.

SOME STRAY THOUGHTS TO NOTE OUR ACHEIVING 60k
This morning on ESMB, I read some postings by Geir Isene oF Norway. He is tracking right there with us as far as the goings on with C of S management. He did a fantastic Doubt formula before leaving C of S in August of 2009.

On the LRH issue, he is a Freezoner and is firmly in the camp that LRH tech, when properly applied, leads to true spiritual gains. I believed that myself for many years. I had real doubts about the Green on White, Management Tech, but felt Red on White produced big wins on a one for one basis. If you are on ESMB any length of time, your perception of LRH and his tech just has to take a hit. Whether you defend parts of the tech, especially the lower levels of the tech, or you condemn it all as crap seems to be something difficult for many decide on. Violent arguments take place from opposing viewpoints.

I read an article by Joe Van Staden recently that helped me resolve this conflict. I had wins receiving applications of the tech and helped others by delivering portions of the tech. Being as impartial as possible and looking as deeply as possible, I just can not come to deny those successful applications. Van Staden's short article described better than anything else I have read, why and how those perceived gains may have taken place.

In a nutshell his is saying that if a person believes something strongly in their mind, that something will tend to work for them. People believe in Jesus or in Islam, or in various motivational speakers such as Tony Robbins or perhaps Dale Carnegie of the past, or in the Book of Mormon or in Scientology tech or in psychiatric drugs. When you believe strongly in something, and practice it by the book, usually you will receive what you interpret to be positive gains.

When dealing with spiritual beings, who is to say what positive gains are? If a guy sits inside a building shaped like a pyramid and claims he can predict the future, who is to say that it is not working for him. Its like the predictions of Nostradamus, knowing all his writings does not help you in the least, but after a war or some natural catastrophe occurs, you can then look through Nostradamus's work and you will find something which resembles what took place and then claim that he predicted it. The old maxim, "If its true for you its true." seems itself to be true.

I believe that there is room for both camps to exist simultaneously. Geir Isene feels LRH tech has high efficacy, more power to him. Others feel it is completely worthless and is a total con game, no problem - that is an interesting viewpoint and something to consider. Besides those two extremes, there are those with every shade of grey in between. Then finally, there are those such as Roger and in a different way, Vinnaire, who are studying and trying hard to find and make known truly valid mental and spiritual technologies. It is a big game and very exciting to be a part of!
Lakey

Taking a page from the Beatles ( that was the rock band Paul McCartney was in before Wings), I've used a lot of what is called tech over many decades. Before I ever heard of Scientology, a friend and I would sit for hours, looking at one another without talking. We got huge as beings. TR0 was a piss poor alteration of what we did.

Having gotten HSDC and briefing course training in Scientology, I've used listing and nulling, two way comm, and all the other procedures for decades. I've changed any number of people's lives for the better. I've helped, using the technology, to get people off alcohol and prescription drug addictions. I helped a lady recover from being completely bedridden and in major pain due to systemic arthritis. A friend gave his daughter an assist, when she was a kid, and the two of them watched as the wound healed before their eyes.

None of these things is 100% scientifically reproducible. They do happen with enough regularity, that I know there is some form of causation going on.

While I used an e meter for the first ten years, I don't really rely on one anymore. I prefer my own knowingness and observation.

I don't do a lot of the "standard" stuff. More times than not, I am not dressed "professionally," usually I'm in a t shirt ( the last time I noticed it was a 1986 Bay to Breakers t shirt), Levi's, and sandals , cowboy boots, or tennies.

I'm a fundamentalist. I believe in helping the PC get what they want. Be who they want to be. Do what they want to do. I'm not a big believer in the "cookie cutter" approach, where everyone gets the same program.