Natural Clears

[Hatshepsut]

Veda

I don't recall one person receiving Dianetic R3R (pre-1978) who thought, "I'm mocking up my own reactive mind," but there were people who did the Clearing Procedure of the mid/late 1950s who thought this, and, after leaving Scientology, I audited someone on a discontinued procedure from around 1957/58, that addressed identities and help, and that resulted in a major and dramatic shift for the better, and the person felt he had "gone Clear," but Dianetics?

I saw that a lot too. Problems/Help and identities is a casecracker if the person can run it deep enough.

Various things - in auditing - can bring a person to a Clear or Clear-like state, and Dianetics is probably one of the least likely procedures for accomplishing that, IMHO, but it was hyped like crazy, and Hubbard made millions (for his monuments-to-himself-projects) from "running" people "up lines" to their "OT levels," and lots of review and repair auditing "up lines" (and away from those darned Missions).

This was I think even truer before NED when the postulates weren't looked at while doing the old HSDC style R3R. Only the lower level AESPs assessed.

SchwimmelPuckel

I'm clear! - I just looked inside my mind.. No sight of a reactive mind anywhere there.. I even shook my head violently a long time to make sure it didn't cling to the inside of my cranium somehow.. Nothing!

Right.. I'll go and have an aspirin now!

ROFL

 

[ULRC/S]

That's a good question and I've often wondered about that myself. Care to elaborate how that happens? Why do good people pull in bad stuff and people like that (mafia hit man) get away with it? Like dm too.

I don't need to elaborate or spoon feed you.

Look up the two references I gave, even demo out the steps in these references, and then you will understand. OK?

Regards, Allen

 

[ULRC/S]

...2. the somewhat bizarre idea of thetans while in this universe not having Inc I.

Regarding 2. I don't know where you got that idea from, but my opinion is it comes from someone who has no clue about OTIII.

Then your opinion is BS.

I gained this info from directly AUDITING many hundreds of beings who are new here, while I was working on levels far above OT3.

They find the tech very interesting and are flooding in here to learn more about it. They arrive unbidden, often in large groups, and are very uptone and playful - but also very insistant. They NEVER have had any implants, and certainly NOT Inc 1.

LRH spoke his opinion/truth back then, but things have changed in the meantime and he's not around (here at least) to bring his writings up to date.

Smilla said they were from a "minus universe" but not these guys. They are not from any "universe" but claim to be from a 100% spiritual existance outside/above any games/universes.

Bill Robertson described something he called "Static Thetans" and I know them from sessions, but these guys are something different. Static thetans are more like spectators at a football match, not players but still involved - these guys have never been anywhere near to games anywhere/anytime.

Regards, Allen

 

[SchwimmelPuckel]

<snip> They find the tech very interesting and are flooding in here to learn more about it. <snip>

Well, Hubbardology will turn 'em into SP's very effectively! - Scientology works!

 

[JBTrendy]

Holly Spirits Convention John's & Mary's

nw2934


Yep. Nobody seems to reminisce about Incident One camaraderie!

ULRC/S


I think there have been a lot of encroachments here where the toll wasn't paid or the card punched. My basic feeling was that the whole Greek Mythology thing and the Nephilim and the space opera and the era of magic and magicians was an interference area. Every time I see video shots of Capetown, South Africa I get a visceral jolt. That place at one time 'had no time'. You could move in and out of there between dimensions. There were invisible people moving about in that place. One universe overlapping another. While I do not understand these things, my revivications are often more real than the present.

Smilla


Yeah that.

JBTrendy


You know I am researching something I've gotten into about a mystical group, the Followers of John. They seemed to have been saturated in a Jewish Mysticism which brought about an alchemical rising of all the energy centers of the body, then exit from the world's domains, and then the Aeons above ultimately to re-experience some divine energy.
I remember offhand that the Templars were rumored to be worshipping the head of John the Baptist which they unearthed from the Temple of Solomon. There is a document called the Testament of Solomon. According to this work, in that temple was much commanding of the spirits confined to this world. Also the Templars were tortured for worshipping pagan representatives of causative powers. Now in the Bible there are many Johns. It is not clear at times which is John the Beloved, or John the apostle or John the Baptist. Same goes for the Marys. I believe someone wanted this person's identity muddled.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testament_of_Solomon

http://www.scribd.com/doc/2228881/The-Testament-of-Solomon-Revised-English

Thanks Mate for these glorious infos.

John the Appostle and John the Baptist were not the same.

I've been named after Jesus cousin John who used to Baptise folks in the Jourdain river. According to John's Evangile when Jesus came back from East at the age of 30 he asked his cousin to Baptise him as he was ready for his time to come. Answering John's Q&A he told him that he had to be Baptised by him as John was Eliah the prophet of prophets.

Jean-Baptiste.

Definitely an interesting identity to muddle with.

Just a name after all...

But it's mine

ALL2U

 

[Terril park]

Yes, I mainly speak in French which is also not my native language. I know the syntax in my sentences is awfull, and I apologise if that makes reading my posts difficult. However, I'm not sure if you having trouble understanding my post is due to my imperfect writing or to your incomplete understanding of III as a level.

My post raised 2 main points regarding what you wrote: 1. using data above a level of the Grade Chart to explain the level one talks about (here Clear), which technically would be out-tech (if one plays that game, the tech, by its rules) 2. the somewhat bizarre idea of thetans while in this universe not having Inc I.

Regarding 2. I don't know where you got that idea from, but my opinion is it comes from someone who has no clue about OTIII. It's not a problem as far as "case" level is concerned - one can go through III sucessfully without knowing all the ins and outs about it, it was designed by Hubbard that way. From the Tech perspective, and you were giving a technical datum saying that, it's a false datum and shows misunderstanding about III. This is only my opinion, not important, but the fact is you alter a core workable datum as stated by Hubbard of this level

To explain a bit further my earlier post - there are data in III that are core technical data. Hubbard's statement that every being in this universe has an Inc I is such a datum. That's a technical datum, one can have a reality of it (now) and that's Scientology. The narrative in that level is of little importance as far as the story is concerned. He could have written Bugs Bunny as Inc I versus the Simpsons as Inc II, were he a cartoonist, and providing all the "buttons" were in the script the level would have run as well. In the Sixties it's not suprising Hubbard's III story has post Second World war elements, the culture of the Fifites flavours and a taste of the Cold War. Add to it his Sea Org Project he was working on, et voilà, you got the script of Inc II. But that's Para-Scientology, even though there is a collective dramatisation here on Earth one can have a reality upon (or not, lol)

Anyway - one could write a whole thick book about the working principles in III. One of those is (without going into the "heavy" ones) - individuality (IncI) versus collectivity (IncII), as one of the processes Hubbard used was polarities. If you talk about "beings in this universe that have no IncI" do you imply those beings have no individuality? are not recognizable as individuals? one cannot perceive their identity, how they "mock themselves up", as there is no such a mock-up? - a thetan is you before you mocked yourself up... per one of the definitions.

(sorry if too much scientologese annoys some reading this post. I could write it in plain English or French, but that would require more time than I have now. Scientologese is sometimes a shortcut)

So regarding your statement - you could say a Natural Clear has no charge on IncI (while of course having an IncI). That could happen. That might seem like nitpicking, however it's an essential difference. And it's amusing to pick it up (Hi Veda, you know I post sometimes for my self-amusement, lol)

au plaisir,
Pierrot

Hubbard talked of how their are beings who are newer to this universe than others. Timetrack bulletins for example.

Yet inc 1 has a specific date.

How do you reconcile that to everyone having inc 1?

 

[Pierrot]

There are other universes. Some people where not here at the time of Inc I. It's simple and easy to understand.

Of course there are other universes. Every Jazz guitarist knows that very well.

I don't know about where people were at that time of Inc I, and btw Inc II as well. Whetever they say which gets that matter solved and they have no more attention on the Time Track, ultimately are fully in Present Time with no time track left, a characteristic of OT, and have fun.

Your comment "Some people where not here at the time of Inc I" has then a funny flavour in it. We already steered away from Natural Clear subject thread, and now we have: no Inc I, that means no start of track, that would mean Natural OT. Is it also some innovation and improvements on Hubbard's tech Allen taught you about?

 

[Pierrot]

Lol!

Then your opinion is BS.

Now that I know where you stand I return to you the compliment and take you calling my opinion BS as unnecessary flattery.

Please bear in mind we are on an international board, there are cultural differences between posters, Frenchies appear sometimes arrogant and there is a tradition in French philosophical discussions to add bullbaiting and flames when getting one's point across. And although I try my best to soften my sWords, it might be I'm contaminated by that attitude beyond repair

I notice you don't take up any technical points in my posts but Q&A instead with the bullbaiting. Can you think with the Tech? Or do we have to rely on your Authority and telepathic connection with Ron, Bill and Xenu alone? I don't mind getting into flames, in fact I love flame wars, and don't fear getting spanked by Emma and having this potentially interesting thread (Paul made some very good points in earlier posts) end up in the dumpster.

I gained this info from directly AUDITING many hundreds of beings who are new here, while I was working on levels far above OT3.

Levels far above OT3... Woaw! how far out there? care to enlighten us?

If I push your argument about getting "info from directly AUDITING many hundreds of beings" a little bit further:

Does that mean if I audited hundreds of crazy lunatics getting plenty of reads and TA motion on whatever the content and wildness of their incidents would be, after I got them fully in the Present Time I would have to consider what they said before as Truth? And then Q&A and adjust/alter-is my Standard Tech and feed the same nonsense to all the others?

They find the tech very interesting and are flooding in here to learn more about it. They arrive unbidden, often in large groups, and are very uptone and playful - but also very insistant. They NEVER have had any implants, and certainly NOT Inc 1.

(pfff.... why does my nose tell me there is a smell of a computation behind this statement... something like "I'm faaaar above OTIII (you're not), I have a flooding in public, uptone and playfull, they love whatever I deliver, so I must be right..." Nah - my basic instinct must be wrong. Well, at least Hubbard was correct sayin' one can pervert the tech and still get results. There is a public for anything - back to the post

And how would they know they had no Inc 1 ? did someone feed them data? does the C/S have no Cramming Officer to take care of such originations and get them to look and query the original writings? At which level do you steer the person to look at his own Inc 1? This part of III was cancelled as one does not run Clears on a Dianetics incident for obvious reasons. If it came up it would have to be looked at with NOTs, which you don't deliver. Excalibur and CBR's levels above being an endless unflat OTIII (Xenu's bridge as Veda calls it) - where do you handle one's own personal Inc 1?

I'm curious.

LRH spoke his opinion/truth back then, but things have changed in the meantime and he's not around (here at least) to bring his writings up to date.

That's fine. I cannot even call what you're doing squirreling as clearly you advertise doing something else than Standard Tech. I have no problem with that, and I love innovations. As for me I rest my case on Standard Tech.

Do you mean he would revise C/S series 2 as well? namely points "3. The basics and fundamentals are stated early in the period of development and have not changed". or "15. That a C/S is not being called upon to develop a new Chart for the case but only to get the case back on the basic Chart and get it done." - ?

Smilla said they were from a "minus universe" but not these guys. They are not from any "universe" but claim to be from a 100% spiritual existance outside/above any games/universes.

I'm always fascinated by people looking for "where do I come from". It's such a serious and important matter for them. Some are even looking for lost magical abilities in some prior universes, for the basic entrance point into the physical universe then and looong time ago, that basic basic of the basic basic (Hi Terril) of the cause that was before the cause. Etc.

At "OT" one is not "coming from". There is no Time Track and the basic entrance point into this Universe is here and now. That's stable and relatively unshakeable.

Instead of having a Static (the "I" the person is) sort of travelling on a time track in the physical universe (apparency), one would be - be as in "I AM", knowing one is, etc - and have the physical universe evolve around one (actuality). As an analogy - you don't ride on the road, you're absolutely unmoved and it's the road, trees, houses, planets and sun that move all around. (that's badly egocentric, isn't it?)

I mention this as it's one of possible phenomena one could encounter when Clear, and thus Natural Clear. And that's part of OTIII.(some get this phenomena after simply word clearing the definition of a Static as well)

That would mean, depending upon the knowledge about games and ability to play, one would be living sort of "as-is", leaving nothing unresolved and thus creating no Time Track. The present moment would be sort of a potential basic, a start of a potential track, should one fail. Not a big deal as such a charge can be easily brushed off, having no Earlier Similars.

So any Incident would be in Present Time. I mean a Pleasure Incident, of course ;-)

Bill Robertson described something he called "Static Thetans" and I know them from sessions, but these guys are something different. Static thetans are more like spectators at a football match, not players but still involved - these guys have never been anywhere near to games anywhere/anytime.

Regards, Allen

Static Thetans ! he also talked about Super Static Thetans - yeah, Bill Robertson was full of artistic creativity.

Well - from what I read above, you and I have not the same acquaintances and don't live in the same neighbourhood. Do you also take in session thetans that have a body? I mean - those that have an Inc 1? I suggest you try, it's very enlightening.

This discussion about Inc 1 is quite funny actually. And don't get me wrong, Allen - I like people playing with Tech data and experimenting. And I love to look into "other practices". And add other flavours to the Tech, as long as one doesn't destroy what's workable in it. It's like in Jazz "learn the rules, play the rules, break the rules". But it doesn't say break the rules before knowing them. That would be silly

Let's take this Inc 1. A friend once told me he wrote to Hubbard about J.S.Bach, Baroque Music, and got a very long response. The Baroque flavour in Inc1 is fun, but let's take it out for a moment.

We're in the XXI century, let's play the platens in Modern Jazz way, in Eb minor, with a funky groove:

So the being decides to enter this universe here and now. First time around no previous Inc One. What do we got?

As the baby comes out of the womb there are waves of light. The Doctor gives him a Loud Snap on his back, the baby takes a deep breath then yells or cries (they don't have horns for newborns available in hospitals nowadays). The nurse puts the baby in a chariot, turns left and right, goes into the room, the light is switched off and blackness surrounds that newly arrived being.

That's a short sample, there is more to it, there are many other versions of it. I intentionally left out some items as those have much charge on them, like Int buttons galore, etc.

I wrote in another thread about III, last year if memory serves, that all the OT levels concepts are stated in DSMSH one way or another. OTIII concept is in full in that book. And as the CS Series 2 says : point "4. The “newest and latest” is usually a recovery of basics and better statements of them."

Happy now, Allen?

au plaisir,
Pierrot

 

[Pierrot]

What is Inc I? And what does it have to do with being able to communicate with a being/person or not?

Hi FoTi,

I didn't answer your question as I was busy with other posts. I'm bad, it should have been Ladies first, and I'm not often a Gentleman.

You might find some answers in the previous post. The rest is for everyone to figure out (or not) as there are personal matters solved on that level. I won't spill the beans about this level on a public forum. And to be frank, I prefer those that dismiss this level as Hubbard's hallucinations than incompetent non-Tech guys that fool around with it. Especially if they lead others who have their eyes wide shut into some la la land.

Have a nice week-end.

 

[FoTi]

Then your opinion is BS.

I gained this info from directly AUDITING many hundreds of beings who are new here, while I was working on levels far above OT3.

They find the tech very interesting and are flooding in here to learn more about it. They arrive unbidden, often in large groups, and are very uptone and playful - but also very insistant. They NEVER have had any implants, and certainly NOT Inc 1.

LRH spoke his opinion/truth back then, but things have changed in the meantime and he's not around (here at least) to bring his writings up to date.

Smilla said they were from a "minus universe" but not these guys. They are not from any "universe" but claim to be from a 100% spiritual existance outside/above any games/universes.

Bill Robertson described something he called "Static Thetans" and I know them from sessions, but these guys are something different. Static thetans are more like spectators at a football match, not players but still involved - these guys have never been anywhere near to games anywhere/anytime.

Regards, Allen

This is really interesting. Could you please talk more about this?

 

[Challenge]

Errr, no - it's not every case is the same, it's rather the content of every bank is the same. Big difference.

And everyone doesn't react/act the same way towards same incidents, this is why one doesn't run unreading items. Otherwise everyone would be running Hubbard's/his CS'/his auditor's/your case.

Hubbard also said in Book One Birth as an incident had to be run out. Well, maybe yes, maybe not - depends upon the person, reads, charge, etc.

So we can say that everyone doesn't need to run birth, yet everyone reading this post was born thus has that incident, and thus the history (not the exact events) is the same.

Hubbard did not say that the content of the bank is the same from person to person. He said that the PATTERN of the bank is the same, from person to person.
My auditing experience has shown this to be true.

Challenge

 

[Challenge]

There are other universes. Some people where not here at the time of Inc I. It's simple and easy to understand.

Smilla, although the person was not *here* at the time of Inc1, do you think it is possible that he *picked up* a load of BT/Cls at birth, or at the time of entering the timestream?

Challenge

 

[Pierrot]

Hubbard did not say that the content of the bank is the same from person to person. He said that the PATTERN of the bank is the same, from person to person.
My auditing experience has shown this to be true.

Challenge

Thank you for correcting my sentence.

You got me looking up the reference I had in mind when writing, as that one comes from the last century. It is "The common denominator of a group is the reactive bank. Thetans without banks have different responses. They only have their banks in common. They agree then only on bank principles. Person to person the bank is identical."

But that's from KSW 1, it's a Policy Letter, has an agenda regulating delivery rather than offering a pure Tech datum. So from the Technical perspective I prefer your reference above ;-)

Thanks again.

 

[Smilla]

Smilla, although the person was not *here* at the time of Inc1, do you think it is possible that he *picked up* a load of BT/Cls at birth, or at the time of entering the timestream?

Challenge

That's very possible, sure.

 

[SchwimmelPuckel]

Being a meatball explains absence at the time of incident 1 too! (In my case anyway.. I'm old, but not that old!)

 

[Smilla]

Of course there are other universes. Every Jazz guitarist knows that very well.

I don't know about where people were at that time of Inc I, and btw Inc II as well. Whetever they say which gets that matter solved and they have no more attention on the Time Track, ultimately are fully in Present Time with no time track left, a characteristic of OT, and have fun.

Your comment "Some people where not here at the time of Inc I" has then a funny flavour in it. We already steered away from Natural Clear subject thread, and now we have: no Inc I, that means no start of track, that would mean Natural OT. Is it also some innovation and improvements on Hubbard's tech Allen taught you about?

I don't know Allen, and have never had a conversation with him. Maybe you should talk to him directly, eh?

 

[Pierrot]

I don't know Allen, and have never had a conversation with him. Maybe you should talk to him directly, eh?

Well, I did in my posts above. I hope he likes it.

As he mentionned you in one of his posts, explaining your point of view, I thought you maybe share(d) an universe together, are married or whatever. So I misread you, it doesn't happen often but that's probably my bad karma with women.

 

[Dulloldfart]

Hubbard did not say that the content of the bank is the same from person to person. He said that the PATTERN of the bank is the same, from person to person.
My auditing experience has shown this to be true.

Challenge

By insisting that pretty much everyone has the same CC implant and the same R6 implant, he is saying that that particular content is identical person to person. Of course he also mentions individual engrams and implants too that differ from person to person.

As for the truth of the matter, that is another subject.

Paul

 

[Smilla]

Well, I did in my posts above. I hope he likes it.

As he mentionned you in one of his posts, explaining your point of view, I thought you maybe share(d) an universe together, are married or whatever. So I misread you, it doesn't happen often but that's probably my bad karma with women.

No problem about a mis-read - we all do it. Do you really feel you have bad karma with women? It surprises me that you should say that.

 

[Pepin]

Smilla, although the person was not *here* at the time of Inc1, do you think it is possible that he *picked up* a load of BT/Cls at birth, or at the time of entering the timestream?

Challenge

Picked up at birth?? I will say no