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The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

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Leon

Gold Meritorious Patron
One last thing, Roger, and hopefully we can put this whole thing to bed.

Is the thought of answering a few questions about a post you made really so abhorrent to you that you would rather go through all of these pages and pages of vituperation instead of just dealing with the issue in a simple, polite manner? Is that really so difficult?

How about we just skip this whole debacle and go back to being friends? I'm willing to do that if you are. I hope you are.

I will leave the last word with you, that's all fine by me, and unless you choose to fan the flames further I will accept that all is over and we can be pals again.

Be well.
 

Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
Utilization of Cognitive Surplus

Ushahidi (ESMB): On the video, Craig Shirky said, "No one person knows what everyone knows." Wow. That certainly puts the supreme know-it-all of scientology into perspective. It takes the wind out of the sails of centralized, big government, too.

It was recently stated that it takes a third dynamic to run out the third dynamic case. I believe that to be true. Hence, "Ushahidi ESMB" (and other internet resources) to run out the third dynamic case of scientology.

It will take a fourth dynamic to run out the fourth dynamic case.

Ushahidi BP oil: The tweets, texts and email messages are used by the Louisiana Bucket Brigade to map a database of damage related to the "spill." The 'brigade,' a New Orleans advocacy group, hopes that thousands will help populate the map over the coming weeks with reports of odors, unemployed oystermen and oily birds and other animals."

http://www.labucketbrigade.org/article.php?id=592



The internet is an integral part of those third and fourth dynamic sessions. Distributed points of actual view (as opposed to opinion), will disintegrate disingenuous PR and manipulative, limited-source communications.

Who are the enemies of sessions? Those with vested interests on keeping people limited and stupid; those who would limit, disrupt, or otherwise shut down the internet.

Another interesting Craig Shirky quote: "Even with the sacred printing press, we got erotic novels 150 years before we got scientific journals."

The investment? 13:38 of your time.

Ushahidi ESMB. Go for it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qu7ZpWecIS8
 

FoTi

Crusader
Very interesting!

I could use one of those scans.

Think how cool it would be to find out you as a "normal" person have been living at reduced capacity, and a real solution was in the offing.

I probably could use one too.

Hey Doc, I'm taking Beano, but I'm still having these brain farts.....think we could do a brain scan? It would be interesting to know, wouldn't it? :eyeroll:
 
Feel free to give her my number. With a bottle of warm olive oil and well placed tactile stimulation I can be quite adept at consoling a distraught woman. As they said in ancient Rome: Do et des. :whistling:


Mark A. Baker

You and your warm olive oil! :D You know honey, with enough warm olive oil and enough willing feet to rub (and other willing parts), you could bring peace to the world! Let's just all be happy! :)
 

Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
The Dalai Lama Says...

The Dalai Lama Says:

"A compassionate attitude opens our inner door, and as a result it is much easier to communicate with others. If there is too much self-centered attitude, then fear, doubt and suspicion come and as a result our inner door closes. Then it is very difficult to communicate with others."


Compassion, yet another thing that gets audited only if its an item for a particular pc. What everyone gets is the self-centered attitude of "my Bridge," "my case," "my gains," "my account." It is no wonder scientologists go out of communication rather than in as they progress up the Bridge.
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Crashed computer - I won't be posting until Monday

My computer has been having problems just shutting off for no reason. It happened twice within about 5 minutes in trying to talk to Dulloldfart by Skype. The last crash on Wednesday was major and the computer will not reboot. I am using someone else's computer to type this. I am supposed to have my computer back runing again be Monday evening.
Lakey
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
My computer has been having problems just shutting off for no reason. It happened twice within about 5 minutes in trying to talk to Dulloldfart by Skype. The last crash on Wednesday was major and the computer will not reboot.

So, if anyone else wants their computer irrevocably crashed just Skype me and I'll be glad to oblige. :D

Paul
 
Dully did it!

It was all those heavy theta flows going back and forth between you! :D
Silly computer got overheated! :p

Actually, Lakey told me over the phone that he really enjoyed talking with you and is looking forward to doing it again as soon as Skype is back up and running! :happydance:

Thanks, FoTi for sharing those...the TED site looks fascinating! :thumbsup:

Hope all are having a wonderful, happy and safe 4th of July weekend! :yes:

No illegal fireworks or brushfires!!!:grouch:

See some of you at the Freedom Celebration tomorrow. :coolwink:
 

Leon

Gold Meritorious Patron
I would like to acknowledge and also thank Ted and Carmello for their calm and thoughtful posts over the last few weeks. They meant a lot to me at the time, and now.

Thank you both.
 

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
The Dalai Lama Says:

"A compassionate attitude opens our inner door, and as a result it is much easier to communicate with others. If there is too much self-centered attitude, then fear, doubt and suspicion come and as a result our inner door closes. Then it is very difficult to communicate with others."


Compassion, yet another thing that gets audited only if its an item for a particular pc. What everyone gets is the self-centered attitude of "my Bridge," "my case," "my gains," "my account." It is no wonder scientologists go out of communication rather than in as they progress up the Bridge.

:goodposting: Very acccurate. :thumbsup:
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
The Dalai Lama Says:

"A compassionate attitude opens our inner door, and as a result it is much easier to communicate with others. If there is too much self-centered attitude, then fear, doubt and suspicion come and as a result our inner door closes. Then it is very difficult to communicate with others."


Compassion, yet another thing that gets audited only if its an item for a particular pc. What everyone gets is the self-centered attitude of "my Bridge," "my case," "my gains," "my account." It is no wonder scientologists go out of communication rather than in as they progress up the Bridge.

A compassionate attitude was one of the key things I looked for inside of Scientology when I was deeply involved. Just being simplistically compassionate was considered being "theetie weedie". Its characteristics were being sympathetic to another's misfortunes, helping downstats, caring sort of like a dog cares for its master. This was frowned upon. If a person was simply kind hearted, without their dedicated purposeful glare, they were allowed on staff but would not get very far.

To really be compassionate on Staff, you had to have a dedicated, purposeful glare, then something called Ethics presence, you had to act directly A to B, and then you had to have compassion for others. I saw nothing wrong with this approach. I felt it was valid at the time I was in and still do. Not too many people could measure up to being compassionate in this manner.

At CCLA Yvonne Jentzsch had it as did Heber. Heber is being talked about a lot currently on other threads and though he had compassion in his early days, his later activities in the Church have tarnished his reputation in the eyes of many. Others at CC who had it might have been Sam Loria, Iris Reaves. Irene Derman plus many of the auditors and C/Ses.

Further down on the Org board there were many compassionate people who were very kind hearted but were usually either lacking on going A to B but took detours instead, or they were lacking in Ethics presence. Two rank and file who I found compassionate were Carole Ferguson and Kenny Lipton.

On the Apollo, I found only Stuart Moreau the MAA, Dave the course supervisor and Al Boughton, the Estates Program Chief to have compassion.

ETHICS PRESENCE There were some very kind hearted people at CCLA who really cared about others but came up short on ethics presence. This would qualify them to be considered compassionate out in the outside world but not strictly compassionate the way it was defined on staff. A few examples of these people at CCLA would be Betty Murakami, Julie Goetz, Frances Pavlides, Adelle Vonnie, Gary Hart, Bob Mithoff, Hector Carmona, Henry Baumgard, etc., kind hearted souls all, but lacking only in the Ethics Presence which was required to really be considered compassionate. This list constitutes all the people who I liked the most and hung out with.

Ethics Presence was an aura a person had about them which said, "I know what I am talking about and I mean business!" Don't mess around with me, if you do well you will be rewarded and enhanced, if you do not, I am going to be in your face and believe me you do not want that to happen. "There's them thats got it and there's them that don't"

I won't say that ethics presence is totally an inborn trait, it can be developed but for the most part, people who have it are endowed with it and did not study and learn how to develop it. Somebody such as Kenny Lipton or Ray Mithof were ones who did not have it initially and developed it later. When someone does that, they do not seem to achieve the level of Ethics Presence which a "natural" has. What Ted says about auditing one's compassion is very interesting. In all the auditing I had, it never once came up on a list of my own creating and was not on any prepared list that I remember doing. The subject was not taken up on any of the grades or actions which I audited. Maybe LRH felt one had it or did not or it was not a skill to be honed but was just a part of a being's dynamics. I believe myself, just a gut feeling, that compassion and also Ethics Presence would respond well to auditing and of course training as well. LRH did not push it as far as I know. Did Alan take up these subjects in Knowledgism?
Lakey
 
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Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
I believe myself, just a gut feeling, that compassion and also Ethics Presence would respond well to auditing and of course training as well. LRH did not push it as far as I know.

Hubbard wrote a Flag Order called "Ethics Presence." I can't remember if it got issued as a PL as well. He even broke it down into factors, "an X quality composed of force, symbology, endurance and 'now we're suppposed to's' or something like that. There was a clay demo on the 3rd Class Mission School checksheet about it. Almost everyone got wrong the "now we're suppposed to's" bit, thinking that it was equivalent to "now YOU'RE supposed to", i.e., saying to someone, "OK Joe, now you're supposed to sweep the floor."

It often took me a while to get across the idea (without verbal tech!) of it not just being a way to give an order, but it had to appeal to the recipient's own moral codes, the way *he* believed things should be. As a sup I often gave the example of "Look, if I told you after the course period to clean up the mess you made before you left, would you do it?" (They would say yes.) "Good. If I told you to stay behind and clean up the mess everyone else had made too, would you do that?" (They would usually say no, even if cautiously!) "Great. What's the difference between the two orders?"

Paul
 

Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
Compassion

A compassionate attitude was one of the key things I looked for inside of Scientology when I was deeply involved. Just being simplistically compassionate was considered being "theetie weedie". Its characteristics were being sympathetic to another's misfortunes, helping downstats, caring sort of like a dog cares for its master. This was frowned upon. If a person was simply kind hearted, without their dedicated purposeful glare, they were allowed on staff but would not get very far.

To really be compassionate on Staff, you had to have a dedicated, purposeful glare, then something called Ethics presence, you had to act directly A to B, and then you had to have compassion for others. I saw nothing wrong with this approach. I felt it was valid at the time I was in and still do. Not too many people could measure up to being compassionate in this manner.

At CCLA Yvonne Jentzsch had it as did Heber. Heber is being talked about a lot currently on other threads and though he had compassion in his early days, his later activities in the Church have tarnished his reputation in the eyes of many. Others at CC who had it might have been Sam Loria, Iris Reaves. Irene Derman plus many of the auditors and C/Ses.

Further down on the Org board there were many compassionate people who were very kind hearted but were usually either lacking on going A to B but took detours instead, or they were lacking in Ethics presence. Two rank and file who I found compassionate were Carole Ferguson and Kenny Lipton.

On the Apollo, I found only Stuart Moreau the MAA, Dave the course supervisor and Al Boughton, the Estates Program Chief to have compassion.

ETHICS PRESENCE There were some very kind hearted people at CCLA who really cared about others but came up short on ethics presence. This would qualify them to be considered compassionate out in the outside world but not strictly compassionate the way it was defined on staff. A few examples of these people at CCLA would be Betty Murakami, Julie Goetz, Frances Pavlides, Adelle Vonnie, Gary Hart, Bob Mithoff, Hector Carmona, Henry Baumgard, etc., kind hearted souls all, but lacking only in the Ethics Presence which was required to really be considered compassionate. This list constitutes all the people who I liked the most and hung out with.

Ethics Presence was an aura a person had about them which said, "I know what I am talking about and I mean business!" Don't mess around with me, if you do well you will be rewarded and enhanced, if you do not, I am going to be in your face and believe me you do not want that to happen. "There's them thats got it and there's them that don't"

I won't say that ethics presence is totally an inborn trait, it can be developed but for the most part, people who have it are endowed with it and did not study and learn how to develop it. Somebody such as Kenny Lipton or Ray Mithof were ones who did not have it initially and developed it later. When someone does that, they do not seem to achieve the level of Ethics Presence which a "natural" has. What Ted says about auditing one's compassion is very interesting. In all the auditing I had, it never once came up on a list of my own creating and was not on any prepared list that I remember doing. The subject was not taken up on any of the grades or actions which I audited. Maybe LRH felt one had it [compassion] or did not or it was not a skill to be honed but was just a part of a being's dynamics. I believe myself, just a gut feeling, that compassion and also Ethics Presence would respond well to auditing and of course training as well. LRH did not push it as far as I know. Did Alan take up these subjects in Knowledgism?
Lakey


If anything, LRH considered compassion a weakness. Scientology was there to help the "able" become more able. Then once organized scientology was strong enough, it could turn around and help the not-so able. That's how the policy reads; that's how the PR goes. Helping the able to be more able is a bastardization of Spencer's and Darwin's survival of the fittest concept/explanation.

Helping the able become more able "to help scientology" is how it should read. As for the less than able, the downstats, we have penances delineated in policy. There is no compassion in lower ethics conditions where ethics is reduced to a moral code and the individual is pretty much left on their own to apply or not.

I am not a student of Knowledgism. Maybe Roger can answer your question. What I can say for certain is that compassion is a positive attribute and Alan focused on processing the positives, not to the exclusion of negatives that might arise, but focusing on positives.

In his interview with Bill Moyer, Campbell stated, "The Buddhists speak of bodhisattva - the one who knows immortality, yet voluntarily enters into the field of fragmentation of time and participates willingly and joyfully in the sorrows of the world. And this means not only experiencing sorrows oneself but participating with compassion with the sorrow of others. Compassion is the awakening of the heart from bestial self-interest to humanity. The word 'compassion' means literally 'suffering with.'"
 
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