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So why do people leave, anyway? Why did WE leave?

Ned Kelly

Patron
Well there were many things that added up to my leaving. I left a couple times, got declared once, but went back. In the end I just drifted away.
The reason for me was this. Scientology promoted to free me from my past and improve my ability to operate in the world and as a spiritual being. I got a lot of wins through auditing and training, and learnt a lot of skills on staff.

I joined staff to help clear the planet. My original view on clearing the planet was about achieving the aims of Scientology, a world without insanity, without criminals and without war, where the able can prosper and human beings have rights, and where man is free to rise to greater heights.

What I found in the CoS, was that they were at war with so many things. I found on numerous occasions that in business a few scios were in fact criminals and nothing was done to prevent it and these people were still actively on lines. I found insanity in the way staffs were being treated. Heavy ethics and justice and no application of the tech. Criminal activity carried on by RTC and OSA in “handling” their enemies.

I did not find the CoS doing anything to really address insanity, criminality or to any effective level, human rights, within society. I could not see how scientology, scientologists or the CoS was doing anything effective to achieve their aims. What I did see was that the CoS was being very effective in creating or contributing to the problem that it was supposed to handle.

The stats given at events and how effective we were did not reconcile with my observations of what was going on in the world, hunger, disease, insanity and criminality were still rife.

On top of that the fees. Not only are they exorbitant, the fee structure is actually sufficient to prevent the broad scale official application of the tech – it prevents sales and prevents people doing the Bridge.

Heavy ethics were not resolving root causes but were in fact blowing good staff off the lines, and again preventing the application of the tech and the expansion of the group.

Taking all personalities out of the equation, the bottom line is that the CoS did not correctly apply the correct tech. They had the resources at their disposal to get out into the world and do something effective to help the peoples of the world. They have not and will not do this. They think small and do not see that by focusing their attention of providing actual needed and wanted services to people who are in need, that their reputation and the reputation of the tech would deliver far greater benefits to the CoS as well as their members.

I did not see that the CoS was taking responsibility for the state of affairs. Rather, it would constantly assign blame such as out ethics staff, the psychs, the government, always someone else or some other group. On the Responsibility Scale, the CoS was Other Determinism.

When I realised how many people the CoS had blown off lines and their total focus on regging people and getting them to join staff, I also realised that on their Havingness Scale they were at Must Be Contributed To.

I then realised that on a social level the CoS was dramatizing a tone of 1.1. Their public communications were false and hid their real intentions. All the glossy magazines, the PR hype, the flashy quarters, etc, were just a false representation of what was actually going on. They CoS was into controlling bodies, needing bodies, enforcement. Factually the CoS by their scale was way down the tone scale.

On the Effects Scale they are either 0.0 or lower. They must cause total effects but cannot receive them. Or lower, in that they think that they are creating great effects when in fact they are having little to no effect in society at large.

One may think hubbard tech is goofy, harmful, dangerous or even beneficial but in my view, if scientology is going to have a place in this world, then it needs to get its exchange in with society. Scientology to survive needs to take responsibility for the conditions that exist in the world = and I do not just mean some PR VMs. It needs to start focusing on actually achieving their aims.

To do this, CoS would need to work alongside and with the WOG world to help achieve mutual aims. It would need to stop thinking in absolutes and start thinking about gradient change, effective change and effective contribution. It would have to stop thinking so bloody literally about exchange = $. It would be supportive and not controlling and demanding of their own parishioners. It would have to stop trying to convert everyone and allow people to BE and DO and HAVE.

So when I realised the CoS, under it’s current and past leadership, was not in my view applying the correct tech correctly to their parishoners, their staff or the world around them, I realised that the COS would never achieve their aims and in fact was only contributing to the insanity and criminality of the world, I decided to part ways.
 

Lurker5

Gold Meritorious Patron
WOW

I left because I was able to see the differences between life in scientology and life without it( I was raised in scientology) and life without it is/was better by far, even death is better than being a scientologist( in my eyes it's the same thing, though really, even if you're a scientologist, there's hope of being free/waking up, without dying).

Here's some more reasons:

No one knew of scientology other than other scientologists when it was supposed to be the biggest best thing in the ENTIRE world!( I went to public schools).I finished my purif and passed the emeter check by lying. I passed the success through communications course at age 10 or 11 by lying cause my parents would 8c me into the course room until I pretended to go along( well kinda pretended, I had to do the drills and such). I was sent to flag when I was 12 to live with the lady who we rented our house from in l.a.( still hella weird to me) and I was originally supposed to do the student hat, but a miscommunication with the course supervisor lady who had a french accent caused an upset and they never asked me why I gave a wrong definition of "bank"( i heard her say "bunk" which I asked her did she say bunk and she said she did, very confusing), I was very homesick and it seemed like they wanted to get me out of there as soon as possible and had me rush through the learning book course and write a success story quickly. Scientology teaches you to lie to yourself as well as other and believe it, I had a hard time reconcilling that with the idea of freedom and integrity and such. The emeters couldnt catch a lie. None of the Ot's stopped suppression. I couldnt make sense of scientology. I had more love and compassion from my non scientologist friends parents/adults. I felt scientology thought I was stupid cause I wasn't allowed to hear or see anything negative about it so they must've thought I couldn't think for myself apparently. They charged for services. There were no clears. There were "clears" who wore glasses. Arbitrary punishment for honest questions attempting to understand( I realize impossible to do when deling with scientology, scientology works, period, no questions, no proof, and punishment if you want answers or proof or bring up how it doesnt really seem to work in reality). Abandonment at the ceo. Having to shower in front of adults with other kids while I was a kid. Sexual things that went on with the other sea org kids (and some non sea org child scientologists as well) Being spanked and hit at the ceo. Being made fun of and the subject of ridicule cause of my stepfather being on rpf( I was not on the rpf, and I was 9 years old and did not do anything yet to deserve the rpf). Seeing that there is no freedom in scientology, only their way (any words to the contrary are totally false in my experience, scietology makes you "free" to be a scientologist, nothing else). Hearing lies about people I knew and hand first hand experiences to the contrary. Growing up and looking at things myself and not along scientological ways of thinking. Scientologists tending to be more insane than non scientologists (in my experience).People talking in circles about fantastic things that had no basis in reality( that I could see at least, and with that first hand experience to the contrary in some cases.....).

I don't know that I was ever really a scientologist, unless you count me being a kid who was around adults who talked of fantastic things as if they were true and it made life more interesting till i found out it was all in their head and didn't match reality being a scientologist, though until the age of 13 I considered myself a proud scientologist.

I think it's individual things with each person that let's them see the reality, even if its for a split second, about scientology. Most importantly, I think, it's having questions, and recognizing if something is true, then it will stand up to questioning, and if its not true, then no questions can be tolerated( or you'll see the lie ). Maybe that's just the big thing with me. What's true to you is true to you, for sure, but not neccessarily THE truth( if you think little green dudes live on mars, thats how it is in your mind for sure, but doesnt mean that there really are little green dudes on mars). If it's true for you that you need to deny children access to their parents, to punish them for being sick, to expect them to be and act like adults, to be responsible for clothing themselves, to not be a kid in order to "help" them, doesn't make it really true, you just end up fucking with the childs head, no matter how much you want it to be real that its helping.


(hella sore spot still with being raised in a fucked up belief system that tried to make me hella wrong for wanting to understand and find some truth and needing some questions answered rather than taking what they said as gospel, I was a child then though, they were VERY lucky I was unable to defend myself. I'm an adult now and have gained a tiny bit of wisdom from those experiences and subsequent ones as well, so something good came of it, but that's not to justify their actions)

Wow, Coyote, this is great ! Glad you are out. Glad you are here - welcome :happydance:. My gosh, you nailed so many things . . . :thumbsup:
 

thetanic

Gold Meritorious Patron
I did not see that the CoS was taking responsibility for the state of affairs. Rather, it would constantly assign blame such as out ethics staff, the psychs, the government, always someone else or some other group. On the Responsibility Scale, the CoS was Other Determinism.

Still isn't. Thus it pulled in Anonymous.

When I realised how many people the CoS had blown off lines and their total focus on regging people and getting them to join staff, I also realised that on their Havingness Scale they were at Must Be Contributed To.

Good point, also one I noticed.

I then realised that on a social level the CoS was dramatizing a tone of 1.1. Their public communications were false and hid their real intentions. All the glossy magazines, the PR hype, the flashy quarters, etc, were just a false representation of what was actually going on. They CoS was into controlling bodies, needing bodies, enforcement. Factually the CoS by their scale was way down the tone scale.

Also a very good point.
 

IMMORTAL

Patron Meritorious
I finally left after I decided I'd better find out what it was that the CofS was so afraid of and didn’t want me to look and why.

Over the years, there were many inconsistencies that I either ignored, assigned to not being high enough on the bridge to fully understand, decided someone else knew better than me and that I didn’t have all the data, just didn’t have an answer to and didn’t want to rock the boat or didn’t want to search deep enough into LRH tech myself to find an answer, if it was even available to me.

Early on, there were inconsistencies that stuck on me:

• My first day on staff, being forced to find my MU on a glaring typo in KSW #1 instead of acknowledging that it was a typo and that the real word should be (blah).

• Being part of a protest while on staff, but only actively at the protest site and protesting when the TV cameras are rolling and when media left, we left.

• Pushing and selling auditing and training to public with urgent warnings that there isn’t an infinity of time to get this data and case gain, however, not readily allowing it to staff or demanding they get up the bridge, too.

• Hitting staff with ridiculous KRs and heavy punishment when they were supposed to be the most ethical group on the planet.

• Org management apparently not using the very LRH tech they are preaching and selling, which is supposed to bring sanity to the group, and instead resorting to force and punishment. This just got worse as the years rolled on, that I could see.

• If Scientology was supposed to help people live a better life, then why were most Scientologists poor and didn’t have very nice material things, house, clothes, cars. This became harder and harder to justify over the years.

• If Scientology was supposed to make life better for people, if applied correctly, and no one dynamic was more important than any other dynamic, why were dynamics 3 (group) and 4 (mankind) obsessed over to the exclusion of all the others. I saw this across the boards. Public people were not allowed to “chase butterflies” and have a life outside of Scientology training, auditing, contributing to the church. It was much worse for staffs. It was very restrictive and then along came the mandatory.

• Speaking of mandatory, why is that? If Scientology is growing by leaps and bounds, why would it have to be mandatory to force people to come? Under threat of KR if they didn’t show up to an event? This really bothered me.

• When I was on OTVII, I had to sign an agreement to come back in 6 months. I questioned the D of P at the time. Why, if an OTVII knows they need to come back in 6 months when they get on the level and that’s part of the game of auditing on OTVII, would they now be forced to sign an agreement to do so under threat of duress? I got a blank stare.

• Why, if Scientology is supposed to make people be able to be more sane and logical, was so much effort placed on not allowing Scientologists to look at or read or listen to things the church deemed being against the church; or talk to people who were declared? Why were these sane Scientologists who had spent thousands and thousands of dollars to get up the bridge and be sane and more trusted, now not trusted enough to allow them to have freedom of speech and look and learn and read what they wanted to?

These are just a few of the inconsistencies that I could no longer choke down and hide from. They finally overcame me and I could no longer agree to lie about their existence. The pink elephant in the room was finally roaring. That’s when I decided to stop lying to myself and agreeing with the church that I could not be trusted to make up my own mind. That’s when I learned about the things I was not ever supposed to find out. That’s when I learned why they were fighting so hard and sec checking people to within an inch of their lives to keep people from finding out the truth of things using fear and manipulation.

I left when I realized I’d been part of a group who professed to reveal truth but then I realized that truth was really only manipulation, mind-control and control by fear in order to extract as much money from their followers as they could before tossing the dried up, used carcasses aside; not caring any more what happened to those who had supported them for years and who were now bankrupt and on the unemployment rolls and losing all their possessions. Since these people could no longer contribute, they were outside the circle of sunshine afforded high dollar contributors.

I realized it was not to benefit mankind. If that were true, they would have applied the most simple of their own technologies to help those who had supported them for years and who were now in need of help themselves.

In addition to all this, the group was not growing despite loud protestations that they were. Most of the people were older and had been involved for years and years. The staff were aging. Where were all the young people? And the way the staff were treated was against their own policies and was appalling.

In any event, I finally stopped long enough to look for myself….not listen, and that’s when I admitted all the lies to myself. And, I'm still finding lies and admitting them.
 

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
this is a paradox, with baffles philosophers to this day, how can active Scientologists complain about a lack of toilet paper in the orgs and not see the mountains of toilet paper surrounding them?

basicbooks2.jpg

:lol: especially when one observes the lack of TP on multiple occasions :coolwink:
 

Lurker5

Gold Meritorious Patron
another most excellent

I finally left after I decided I'd better find out what it was that the CofS was so afraid of and didn’t want me to look and why.

Over the years, there were many inconsistencies that I either ignored, assigned to not being high enough on the bridge to fully understand, decided someone else knew better than me and that I didn’t have all the data, just didn’t have an answer to and didn’t want to rock the boat or didn’t want to search deep enough into LRH tech myself to find an answer, if it was even available to me.

Early on, there were inconsistencies that stuck on me:

• My first day on staff, being forced to find my MU on a glaring typo in KSW #1 instead of acknowledging that it was a typo and that the real word should be (blah).

• Being part of a protest while on staff, but only actively at the protest site and protesting when the TV cameras are rolling and when media left, we left.

• Pushing and selling auditing and training to public with urgent warnings that there isn’t an infinity of time to get this data and case gain, however, not readily allowing it to staff or demanding they get up the bridge, too.

• Hitting staff with ridiculous KRs and heavy punishment when they were supposed to be the most ethical group on the planet.

• Org management apparently not using the very LRH tech they are preaching and selling, which is supposed to bring sanity to the group, and instead resorting to force and punishment. This just got worse as the years rolled on, that I could see.

• If Scientology was supposed to help people live a better life, then why were most Scientologists poor and didn’t have very nice material things, house, clothes, cars. This became harder and harder to justify over the years.

• If Scientology was supposed to make life better for people, if applied correctly, and no one dynamic was more important than any other dynamic, why were dynamics 3 (group) and 4 (mankind) obsessed over to the exclusion of all the others. I saw this across the boards. Public people were not allowed to “chase butterflies” and have a life outside of Scientology training, auditing, contributing to the church. It was much worse for staffs. It was very restrictive and then along came the mandatory.

• Speaking of mandatory, why is that? If Scientology is growing by leaps and bounds, why would it have to be mandatory to force people to come? Under threat of KR if they didn’t show up to an event? This really bothered me.

• When I was on OTVII, I had to sign an agreement to come back in 6 months. I questioned the D of P at the time. Why, if an OTVII knows they need to come back in 6 months when they get on the level and that’s part of the game of auditing on OTVII, would they now be forced to sign an agreement to do so under threat of duress? I got a blank stare.

• Why, if Scientology is supposed to make people be able to be more sane and logical, was so much effort placed on not allowing Scientologists to look at or read or listen to things the church deemed being against the church; or talk to people who were declared? Why were these sane Scientologists who had spent thousands and thousands of dollars to get up the bridge and be sane and more trusted, now not trusted enough to allow them to have freedom of speech and look and learn and read what they wanted to?

These are just a few of the inconsistencies that I could no longer choke down and hide from. They finally overcame me and I could no longer agree to lie about their existence. The pink elephant in the room was finally roaring. That’s when I decided to stop lying to myself and agreeing with the church that I could not be trusted to make up my own mind. That’s when I learned about the things I was not ever supposed to find out. That’s when I learned why they were fighting so hard and sec checking people to within an inch of their lives to keep people from finding out the truth of things using fear and manipulation.

I left when I realized I’d been part of a group who professed to reveal truth but then I realized that truth was really only manipulation, mind-control and control by fear in order to extract as much money from their followers as they could before tossing the dried up, used carcasses aside; not caring any more what happened to those who had supported them for years and who were now bankrupt and on the unemployment rolls and losing all their possessions. Since these people could no longer contribute, they were outside the circle of sunshine afforded high dollar contributors.

I realized it was not to benefit mankind. If that were true, they would have applied the most simple of their own technologies to help those who had supported them for years and who were now in need of help themselves.

In addition to all this, the group was not growing despite loud protestations that they were. Most of the people were older and had been involved for years and years. The staff were aging. Where were all the young people? And the way the staff were treated was against their own policies and was appalling.

In any event, I finally stopped long enough to look for myself….not listen, and that’s when I admitted all the lies to myself. And, I'm still finding lies and admitting them.

Another most excellent post :clap:. Thank you, Immortal.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
The responses here have been incredibly thoughtful, detailed and logical. Also very heartfelt. So I still think the mistreatment drives people away but seems to also be a combination with all the other things, like the tech not delivering true OTs.

But then again, if they didn't MAKE those exaggerated claims AND didn't screw people over (and if I had a unicorn) they wouldn't have all those critics and ex members and all...

Where the hell is my unicorn?
 

VaD

Gold Meritorious Patron
I read al those beautiful posts...
Yet I still think that the basic core answer is *DISAFFECTED*

How much, to what degree, what's the reason, when it started, how it ended... - to me those are just details.

Please, don't get me wrong - I DO appreciate people speaking heart-felt truth. I'm myself like that. :yes:

"Disaffectedness" is at the core of EVERY case. (Otherwise we wouldn't be here, would we? :D)
 

IMMORTAL

Patron Meritorious
I read al those beautiful posts...
Yet I still think that the basic core answer is *DISAFFECTED*

How much, to what degree, what's the reason, when it started, how it ended... - to me those are just details.

Please, don't get me wrong - I DO appreciate people speaking heart-felt truth. I'm myself like that. :yes:

"Disaffectedness" is at the core of EVERY case. (Otherwise we wouldn't be here, would we? :D)

Yes, Vadim, that's true. That one word wraps it all up into a nice little bundle.

I offer, however, that sometimes the one word answer is not enough for people to relate to, especially as this word "disaffected" has been thrown around by people actively connected to the church. I've experienced this word being spit forth through frothing lips and teeth combined with a very bad opinion of the person being spoken about. A knee-jerk reaction would be "no, I'm not that!".

So, in the interest of relating to people who may be here seeking examples that they can relate to in their own lives, the details may be more descriptive of exactly what a person may mean in their own words about why they left. :)
 

VaD

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yes, Vadim, that's true. That one word wraps it all up into a nice little bundle.

I offer, however, that sometimes the one word answer is not enough for people to relate to, especially as this word "disaffected" has been thrown around by people actively connected to the church. I've experienced this word being spit forth through frothing lips and teeth combined with a very bad opinion of the person being spoken about. A knee-jerk reaction would be "no, I'm not that!".

So, in the interest of relating to people who may be here seeking examples that they can relate to in their own lives, the details may be more descriptive of exactly what a person may mean in their own words about why they left. :)

Immortal, I had pretty much that exact experience... The day I was offloaded from PAC RPF (11 September 2003) and voiced something against being *removed* from USA by CoS/SO I asked something from Alex Duvall (Security Guard in PAC who drove me to LAX and made sure I left the USA), and his question was "Are you disaffected?" ... I said "No" (when I *was*).
Now I see that I can admit and say forward - YES! I WAS DISAFFECTED with you, Church of Scientology/Sea Org. In fact, I've been disaffected with you (meaning , SO) all the way since joining... Only I had not been honest enough and powerful enough to admit it to you (because I had trouble to admit it to myself).

Now I'm not upset with those who gave me trouble. They were the pawns in the same game I was.
That game is over for me now.
 

IMMORTAL

Patron Meritorious
Immortal, I had pretty much that exact experience... The day I was offloaded from PAC RPF (11 September 2003) and voiced something against being *removed* from USA by CoS/SO I asked something from Alex Duvall (Security Guard in PAC who drove me to LAX and made sure I left the USA), and his question was "Are you disaffected?" ... I said "No" (when I *was*).
Now I see that I can admit and say forward - YES! I WAS DISAFFECTED with you, Church of Scientology/Sea Org. In fact, I've been disaffected with you (meaning , SO) all the way since joining... Only I had not been honest enough and powerful enough to admit it to you (because I had trouble to admit it to myself).

Now I'm not upset with those who gave me trouble. They were the pawns in the same game I was.
That game is over for me now.

That's great, Vadim. I'm happy for you that you have moved through that. From what I can see, we all unfold from this experience at our own pace. But I believe that we can all peel it off and throw it away. :thumbsup:
 

smartone

My Own Boss
I finally left after I decided I'd better find out what it was that the CofS was so afraid of and didn’t want me to look and why.

Over the years, there were many inconsistencies that I either ignored, assigned to not being high enough on the bridge to fully understand, decided someone else knew better than me and that I didn’t have all the data, just didn’t have an answer to and didn’t want to rock the boat or didn’t want to search deep enough into LRH tech myself to find an answer, if it was even available to me.

Early on, there were inconsistencies that stuck on me:

• My first day on staff, being forced to find my MU on a glaring typo in KSW #1 instead of acknowledging that it was a typo and that the real word should be (blah).

• Being part of a protest while on staff, but only actively at the protest site and protesting when the TV cameras are rolling and when media left, we left.

• Pushing and selling auditing and training to public with urgent warnings that there isn’t an infinity of time to get this data and case gain, however, not readily allowing it to staff or demanding they get up the bridge, too.

• Hitting staff with ridiculous KRs and heavy punishment when they were supposed to be the most ethical group on the planet.

• Org management apparently not using the very LRH tech they are preaching and selling, which is supposed to bring sanity to the group, and instead resorting to force and punishment. This just got worse as the years rolled on, that I could see.

• If Scientology was supposed to help people live a better life, then why were most Scientologists poor and didn’t have very nice material things, house, clothes, cars. This became harder and harder to justify over the years.

• If Scientology was supposed to make life better for people, if applied correctly, and no one dynamic was more important than any other dynamic, why were dynamics 3 (group) and 4 (mankind) obsessed over to the exclusion of all the others. I saw this across the boards. Public people were not allowed to “chase butterflies” and have a life outside of Scientology training, auditing, contributing to the church. It was much worse for staffs. It was very restrictive and then along came the mandatory.

• Speaking of mandatory, why is that? If Scientology is growing by leaps and bounds, why would it have to be mandatory to force people to come? Under threat of KR if they didn’t show up to an event? This really bothered me.

• When I was on OTVII, I had to sign an agreement to come back in 6 months. I questioned the D of P at the time. Why, if an OTVII knows they need to come back in 6 months when they get on the level and that’s part of the game of auditing on OTVII, would they now be forced to sign an agreement to do so under threat of duress? I got a blank stare.

• Why, if Scientology is supposed to make people be able to be more sane and logical, was so much effort placed on not allowing Scientologists to look at or read or listen to things the church deemed being against the church; or talk to people who were declared? Why were these sane Scientologists who had spent thousands and thousands of dollars to get up the bridge and be sane and more trusted, now not trusted enough to allow them to have freedom of speech and look and learn and read what they wanted to?

These are just a few of the inconsistencies that I could no longer choke down and hide from. They finally overcame me and I could no longer agree to lie about their existence. The pink elephant in the room was finally roaring. That’s when I decided to stop lying to myself and agreeing with the church that I could not be trusted to make up my own mind. That’s when I learned about the things I was not ever supposed to find out. That’s when I learned why they were fighting so hard and sec checking people to within an inch of their lives to keep people from finding out the truth of things using fear and manipulation.

I left when I realized I’d been part of a group who professed to reveal truth but then I realized that truth was really only manipulation, mind-control and control by fear in order to extract as much money from their followers as they could before tossing the dried up, used carcasses aside; not caring any more what happened to those who had supported them for years and who were now bankrupt and on the unemployment rolls and losing all their possessions. Since these people could no longer contribute, they were outside the circle of sunshine afforded high dollar contributors.

I realized it was not to benefit mankind. If that were true, they would have applied the most simple of their own technologies to help those who had supported them for years and who were now in need of help themselves.

In addition to all this, the group was not growing despite loud protestations that they were. Most of the people were older and had been involved for years and years. The staff were aging. Where were all the young people? And the way the staff were treated was against their own policies and was appalling.

In any event, I finally stopped long enough to look for myself….not listen, and that’s when I admitted all the lies to myself. And, I'm still finding lies and admitting them.


OMG Immortal, you've definitely hit all the reasons why, in my universe, I was in doubt. I wanted to do OT3 so bad when I was in. One day I confided to a close friend of mine that I was handling my tax situation. Did the shit hit the fan!! You'd think I said I was going to blow up the White House. KRs flying everywhere. Everyone getting the wrong end of the stick. He saids and she saids. You name it.

It was the final straw for me and I decided it wasn't worth all the hassle of getting up the Bridge. So I went into the Ethics Officer at Flag and told him that I'm leaving and no longer consider myself a Scientologist. I gave him a long preamble as to why. Got up and walked out. Someone followed me into the reception area trying to 8-C me. I told him very loudly to get his hands off me or I will call the police. He did.

Then when I got home I googled OT3 and read all the BS about Xenu. I cracked up in stitches and realised, yes, it's not worth it.

Since then, my life is going great. I have a loving, supportive family. Never felt better.
 

smartone

My Own Boss
I think it is that finally they lost hope.

I think people look the other way at all the inconsistentcies.

But when so many build up and their personal experience goes bad, then they leave.

They let go of the hope of becomeing a superman or that Scientology can help create a world without war, crime, and insanity, or whatever it was that got them in.

If they still have hope, they may hang in longer. but when the hope dies then they're done.

And when the hope dies, they start to see the whole experience in a new light.

The Anabaptist Jacques


Exactly :thumbsup:
 

Arthur Dent

Silver Meritorious Patron
In no particular order:

The Sec Checking: At the upper OT levels it becomes an effort of entrapment only. Anything you say can and will be used against you should you even start to look cockeyed at scn. It is most definitely the Thought Police.

The Paranoia: See above. Then there is the idea that OTs cannot talk to other OTs about their OT level or the OT tech in general outside of the OT courseroom. This is so no one alters the tech. OK. But really... And of course you and others are in danger of having a KR written if you have anything to say that one interprets as "natter." And there is just so much to "natter" about but your lips are sealed!! So you have all these "OTs" with false fronts which is just tiring to say the least. Isn't scn. to set you free? Well, no, actually!

The rape and pillage of human lives in order for some exec., missionaire, DM minion, whatever....to fulfill his or her obligation to the Thought Police. The fact that they will stop at nothing to berate, belittle, squeeze, follow, threaten and harass people to achieve whatever it is they are after: Basics sales, recruiting for staff, "contributions" aka extortion, etc. Mostly it's just pure stat-push-evil. But what pisses me off is when some poor hump on the low end of the totem pole is chasing, threatening or harassing someone under "orders" and actually thinks it is for the benefit of mankind and clearing the planet. This is abuse.

I used to put up with crap and ride the waves and stay the course in spite of pendulum swings over the years in order to protect the people I thought I was helping and in order to continue to be able to do so. I thought I could put up with the insanity if I had to in order to not compromise my ability to continue helping others. So I jumped through the hoops. This actually worked for many years. The number of hoops increased over time and took their toll on me but I held up. Then it actually stopped working. Why? The insanity and lies and threats and duress were seeping into the lives of people I was helping through by-pass. There was nothing I could do to stop it and so it was not really possible to help anymore. I was surprised to realize that the goal is not what I had thought it was all along. By practicing scn. I actually became an enemy of "scn. " And eventually I was out-numbered. Hope this makes sense.

Upper OT levels got me out. The actual materials vs. the administration: threats, disconnections, insane sec checking, etc...
There are threads about the validity or falseness of the OT levels and that is its own thread so I won't even get into how I feel about that as I don't feel it much matters anymore. But this dichotomy was like opposite magnetic poles. It just drove me away. Maybe that's the point? Once you get that it doesn't work or that the organization doesn't work you are now free? :duh: What took me so long!

Forced abortions. I was never privy to this. I always thought if someone in the S.O. became pregnant they had the option to route out or go to a Cl IV org. I didn't know what their idea of "option" was.

"Mandatory" briefings, events, clapping. Na. I couldn't see how that = Freedom. More thought police.

Lack of intelligence. If you teach me that natter=overts and you are nattering about someone...media, psychs, governments, critics, scientologists you declare for asking too many questions.... Gee...what am I to think?

These are just a few...
 

Good twin

Floater
I'm ready to answer this Claire.

The enforcement of the codes and policies (both known and hidden) is not applied equally across the boards. I believe that this is part of the design of the cult. What is expected of you as a Scientologist increases with your involvement gradually. You go through phases of "responsibility" as you go either up the bridge or up the Org board. (or both) It becomes a game to pass through these tests of ever increasing responsibility. Most Scientologists who have been around a long time take pride in the fact that more is expected of them in terms of involvment and contribution and encroachment into other areas of life.

I gradually through several decades moved through many of these phases of involvement. Of course I tripped and fell many times and was allowed to continue by taking the necessary steps with the ethics officer or cramming officer or tours reg. It was part of the game. I enjoyed it every bit as much as the auditing and training. I actaully got quite a rush from getting my bank accounts to zero when I made a donation to the IAS. I was excited to find out I could get my inheritance money early to make a very dramatic contribution that would inspire others to dig deeper and contribute to saving the planet. I gladly did lower conditions to get back in good standing when I made a misstep comparable to being late to basketball practice.

Some of you on this message board say you always bucked the system. I didn't. I was very muched seduced by the entire package that was and is Scientology. But I wasn't perfect. I was worn down at times. I was not always in complete agreement with a new program or expectation. But I usually handled myself as I handled others to look at the bigger picture and get on with the show. I even got through the fires. ("the part of my story I never tell" thread) Sort of.

Living through horrific experiences with blinders on just wears you down. I kept up appearances. I was even convinced that I was happy. But my body started to rebel. My endocrine system started to shut down and I was keeping my body alive with postulates. (I don't recommend this)

By the time I was busted off post I was too exhausted to care. I was assured that I would do well as a public person and not have any trouble getting up the bridge and would be able to find other ways to contribute and blah blah blah. But I was definitely ready for a break. I did the obligatory 16 sets of lowers and allowed the hundreds of people who had looked up to me for years to view me as broken and pathetic. That part was easy. But I really didn't think I would ever have the energy to really play this game and make it go right and win anymore.

I bought the Basics and signed up and paid for the courses and I even started the courses and finished a couple and wrote glowing success stories. I also watched the regges fighting over me and listened to people whine over who was going to get the book commission on my purchases. It looked very different from the outside. I started to see that I had been part of a very unprofessional and pathetic organization. I realized that I didn't have to play or be part of that.

Instead of "handling" natter I heard from other Scientologists, I started to listen and evaluate. I paid attention to the outpoints. (only little ones at first) I decided to apply Scientology to Scientology. You know the drill. You apply the data series and the doubt formula and evaluation of importances and investagation tech. not to mention PTS/SP tech. It comes out different when you start thinking with Scientology as yourself and not as a Scientologist who must toe the line to secure his next level.

I was reading DMSMH for the umpteenth time on my new Basics course and I read the chapter on the clear over and over and over. I had the Jason Beghe cognition. "There are no F**in' clears." Then finally a friend told me she was afraid that I would disconnect from her if she decided to not go up the bridge, and I snapped. I found my friend Kathy, who I knew was declared. It was an act of defiance that sealed the deal. I was never going back.

The truth is I applied Scientology to Scientology and then was able to break free and find out the truth. Eventually I was able to stop thinking like a Scientologist some of the time. Being on this message board took the edge off the cultural shock to a large degree. I broke as many rules as I could without breaking the rules of society. I learned to experience real emotions instead of tone levels. I learned that complaining sometimes is normal. I learned that it's okay to take some time off.

Thank you all you lovely and wonderful SPs and squirrels. You have saved me from my own (and Hubbard's) delusions and I am experiencing real life for the first time in over thirty years. It's not always easy, but it's deliciously real.
 

apple

Patron Meritorious
Some profound posts here. For me, I was tired of chasing the carrot in front of the donkey and not catching it, with me being the donkey. Wanted more from life then doing Scn.... Scn had run its course with me with one major withdraw then a number of smaller ones that eventually tapered off to not going there at all.
 

SpectrumV

Patron
When I first started (div6 public then staff in a few weeks) there were things I thought were a little bit off (heavy reging, clapping at a pic of LRH, etc.) but those things couldn't be so wrong because all the people I met there at the org were smart, funny, cool, decent people who had been around $cn a while and would (should) know better.
I joined the Sea Org. I met people there who weren't smart, weren't funny, weren't cool, weren't decent people. The best words to describe some of these folks would be total fucking assholes. Don't get me wrong, I met some really good people there too. But total fucking assholes?:omg: In the most ethical group in the world?:omg: Clears that were kinda dumb and abberated OTS?:omg: How could that be? The tech? It works? Right?
I didn't stay long and I never went back to my neighborhood org.
 

EP - Ethics Particle

Gold Meritorious Patron
I love this gul!

I'm ready to answer this Claire.

...snip...

The truth is I applied Scientology to Scientology and then was able to break free and find out the truth. Eventually I was able to stop thinking like a Scientologist some of the time. Being on this message board took the edge off the cultural shock to a large degree. I broke as many rules as I could without breaking the rules of society. I learned to experience real emotions instead of tone levels. I learned that complaining sometimes is normal. I learned that it's okay to take some time off.

...snip...

...I am experiencing real life for the first time in over thirty years. It's not always easy, but it's deliciously real.

And one of these days before too long, GT has promised she's gonna sit on my lap! :yes::happydance::thumbsup:

Great posting here, GT and others too! :clap:

Mike Horton (aka EP)

P.S. As an afterthought - my son (now in his mid thirties) told me about 10 years ago that he had joined AA... I knew he was a social drinker, as am I, but was totally surprised by this development. Today, he is still "dry" and quite successful.

I asked him a short while ago how he was doing, living life without alcohol, and he said, after a moment of thought - "It's better...but it's sure as hell not easier."

I think I understand what he means - perhaps others do also.
 
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freethinker

Sponsor
The reasons why I left have been pretty well stated and covered here by others.

The reasons are consistent and well founded.

One thing I note the most is that second generation Scientologists have suffered even more IMHO. Not having prior experience to weigh things with they had to sort through it somehow through logic to see it wasn't them..... it was Scientology. That their parents cared more for Scientology than them is most grusome to me.

So I will focus on why I stayed despite all the afore given reasons. I stayed because there were people I really liked who truly believed that this was the way out of the "trap". I admired these people and stayed because I respected their opinion. It's sad to think that many are still there and can't see what they are truly dealing with.

Because I believed them and that, despite the chaos, the tech may work and I might someday achieve recovery of my OT abilities and then would be free to decide if I wanted to be part of the church or go my own way.

I never got that far in my auditing and, because of what I have read of what happens when you get higher up the bridge, I'm so happy I didn't.

Finding the truth of Scientology on the internet cured what hopes I may of had of going OT and free. It is a pack of lies.

So that's why I stayed.
 
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