Jesse Prince & Marty Rathburn bump

[The Great Zorg]

October 2, 1998
By Jesse Prince
(bold emphasis added)

During my time as an executive and senior executive in RTC, David Miscavige was the decision maker concerning all legal suits filed by any of Scientology's corporations. Miscavige had complete authority concerning all litigation within Scientology, and he made the final decisions as to how each case would be litigated as well as which lawyers would be used in each and every case. Miscavige had two Scientology staff, Marty Rathbun and Lyman Spurlock, who assisted in Scientology litigation matters, but Miscavige always made the final decisions. CSI majorly operated on orders from LRH, which were called advices to avoid legal problems for himself and Scientology, since he supposedly had not managed any of the corporations of Scientology since 1966, when he had officially resigned as Executive Director.

I fail to see why anyone in their right mind would trust Rathburn with all of his undisclosed secrets and dirt or even the fact that he hasn't come clean and apologized (unless I missed that)! :confused2:

 

[Good twin]

Zorg......Marty's apology is on a confidential level only available at the Shack.
(and not yet released)

 

[Type4_PTS]

Zorg......Marty's apology is on a confidential level only available at the Shack.
(and not yet released)

That's very true, and the confidentiality is for our own good. Hearing the apology before we're ready for it could result in severe illness (including pneumonia) or even death.

 

[Good twin]

That's very true, and the confidentiality is for our own good. Hearing the apology before we're ready for it could result in severe illness (including pneumonia) or even death.

Thank goodness you get it Type4!

 

[The Great Zorg]

Grrrrrr

Zorg......Marty's apology is on a confidential level only available at the Shack (and not yet released).

That's very true, and the confidentiality is for our own good. Hearing the apology before we're ready for it could result in severe illness (including pneumonia) or even death.

Wow - what a true humanitarian Marty is! Imagine, he's sparing us all of the reactions we might have when he finally 'fesses up. What a great guy! Saving us all from anger and frustration, rage and contempt, legal prosecution and justice; justice that is so expensive these days and best saved for more noble uses such as appearing to sit down to maybe try and stop the worldwide flow of illicit drugs! A true church of scientologist!!! Man, "they" just don't make men like that anymore!!!

 

[Type4_PTS]

I fail to see why anyone in their right mind would trust Rathburn with all of his undisclosed secrets and dirt or even the fact that he hasn't come clean and apologized (unless I missed that)! :confused2:

While I don't "trust" Marty, I do very much appreciate the positive things he has done. Hopefully the BBC Special coming up next week will be a step in the right direction.

 

[Zinjifar]

While I don't "trust" Marty, I do very much appreciate the positive things he has done. Hopefully the BBC Special coming up next week will be a step in the right direction.

Just to keep things in perspective, it might be valuable to enumerate the 'positive things Marty Rathbun' has done

Zinj

 

[Type4_PTS]

Off the top of my head........I like what he did with the SP Times articles, his assisting in the Headley lawsuit against the CoS, and I like the fact that he contributes to getting people out of the CoS. No doubt that he can reach people that we never will.

You didn't ask this.........but what I don't like is his attempted interference with the Australian Inquiry nor do I like that he is assigning DM as the cause of everything bad with scientology.

 

[Zinjifar]

Off the top of my head........I like he did with the SP Times articles, his assisting in in the Headley lawsuit against the CoS, and I like the fact that he contributes to getting people out of the CoS. No doubt that he can reach people that we never will.

You didn't ask this.........but what I don't like is his attempted interference with the Australian Inquiry nor do I like that he is assigning DM as the cause of everything bad with scientology.

All I can say to that is, I don't know 'what' he did with the SP Times articles. I know from what was visible that the articles stressed a couple of points: Miscavige's abusive behavior primarily. The articles were not originated by Marty and the direction they ended up taking was very much what has become Marty Rathbun's preferred direction. No talk of organized Scientology *crime*; no talk of systemic abuse. No analysis of Scientology as a criminal organization or delving into its history of not only abuse, but actual crime.

The SPTimes articles were good. But, my feeling is that Marty deliberately defused what could have been a wide ranging exposure of systemic abuse in Scientology by narrowing the focus on David Miscavige alone.

I don't know what assistance he gave in the Headley lawsuit, beyond supplying an affidavit and possibly some advice. And, the Headley case is so far *failed* (appeal to come hopefully.) Was the communication with the Headleys two-way? Was Marty aware of the internal discussion within the Headley camp? I don't know. Nor do I know who *else* he was advising, but, if I had been in the position I would not have shared any confidential information with him.

'Getting People Out' tends to be something Marty is given credit for most frequently. As has been discussed over and over, there's no evidence of him doing so. Yes, there's little question that *once out*, Marty has been successful in aligning some escapees with his own 'movement'; but, he did *not* 'get them out'.

I don't know what's going on in Marty's head. I don't *know* what his intentions are. All I have to go by is what he does visibly and what he says and allows to be said on his own blog. And, what's visible seems to indicate that he is actively *opposed* to any exposure of Scientology beyond his own narrow focus on David Miscavige.

Zinj

 

[Type4_PTS]

All I can say to that is, I don't know 'what' he did with the SP Times articles. I know from what was visible that the articles stressed a couple of points: Miscavige's abusive behavior primarily. The articles were not originated by Marty and the direction they ended up taking was very much what has become Marty Rathbun's preferred direction. No talk of organized Scientology *crime*; no talk of systemic abuse. No analysis of Scientology as a criminal organization or delving into its history of not only abuse, but actual crime.

I also don't know the extent of Marty's involvement with the SP Times articles, but if his *only* involvement was the video interview that he did I thought it was excellent, and a valuble contribution.

I agree that there was more that he could have said, and that he puts too much emphasis on DM as the cause of everything bad. But what he did say was great.

The SPTimes articles were good. But, my feeling is that Marty deliberately defused what could have been a wide ranging exposure of systemic abuse in Scientology by narrowing the focus on David Miscavige alone.

Maybe, but that's just tinfoil speculation.

I don't know what assistance he gave in the Headley lawsuit, beyond supplying an affidavit and possibly some advice.

Again, if the affidavit was the *only* assistance he provided then that was in itself very valuble in my opinion.

And, the Headley case is so far *failed*

No evidence that Marty's participation contributed to any failure.

(appeal to come hopefully.) Was the communication with the Headleys two-way? Was Marty aware of the internal discussion within the Headley camp? I don't know.

Nor do I know who *else* he was advising, but, if I had been in the position I would not have shared any confidential information with him.

No evidence that the Headley's or their attorney shared any confidential information.

'Getting People Out' tends to be something Marty is given credit for most frequently. As has been discussed over and over, there's no evidence of him doing so.

He was the Inspector General for Ethics, RTC among other things. I have no doubt that given the position he held that he was influential getting some people out. Just yesterday I read a message from someone on Facebook who indicated that Marty was a factor in her getting out but just acted as a halfway house, and now she is fully out.


Yes, there's little question that *once out*, Marty has been successful in aligning some escapees with his own 'movement'; but, he did *not* 'get them out'.

I don't know what's going on in Marty's head. I don't *know* what his intentions are.

I also don't know what's in his head, but I'll take a shot at it. Maybe he feels that if he comes out and tells everything including any crimes of his own or that he was aware of from when he was in the CoS that the public (and government) backlash would be so severe that it could endanger his "religion" of Scientology. And to Marty, maybe this would be even a bigger crime than the ones he's already committed. Regardless of whether he believes scientology to be the only hope for mankind or just a con, either way, he obviously doesn't want to do anything to damage the subject. I hope that it is the former, that he is a true believer. Whichever it is though, it doesn't justify withholding knowledge of criminal activity by the CoS.

All I have to go by is what he does visibly and what he says and allows to be said on his own blog. And, what's visible seems to indicate that he is actively *opposed* to any exposure of Scientology beyond his own narrow focus on David Miscavige.

I don't spend much time on his blog, maybe 15 minutes a month, so can't really comment on this. I did notice some others though have said they've seen subtle changes in Marty's comments on the blog, and that he is letting more stuff through now that he previously would have censored. But still, the moderation is pretty heavy-handed.......no doubt.

...

 

[Zinjifar]

I don't spend much time on his blog, maybe 15 minutes a month, so can't really comment on this. I did notice some others though have said they've seen subtle changes in Marty's comments on the blog, and that he is letting more stuff through now that he previously would have censored. But still, the moderation is pretty heavy-handed.......no doubt.

The tenor of the blog, comments included, changes frequently. Enough so that I suspect it's being used as a testbed for 'acceptable truth'. How far can Marty 'lead' before those led balk? And, *because* of the heavy moderation, it's difficult to say how candid those commenting are. At least some are quite obviously 'matching tone levels' with Marty in an attempt to see how far *they* can go. How much of the 'I agree with you 1000% Marty!' is feigned?

In at least a couple of instances he's misread his crowd and had to back-pedal, lest disagreement creep in. Nowhere quite so openly as the Farrakahn Gets Ron! fiasko. Anyway, it's interesting watching the goings-on.

The last couple of days have been especially interesting, although the hidden message is pretty murky.

At least AnonKat (Cat Daddy) seems to have been adopted as a useful pet stooge and is getting his measure of 'love bombing'

And, Marty seems to be trying to mend some fences with 'Anon'. Hard to say where this is going, but, it's unlikely to be going anywhere I'd approve of Oh, newest tidbit; apparently Panorama will include a segment of Marty 'auditing' John Sweeney, with Mike Rinder looking on benevolently.

And, Marty seems to be in no hurry to disabuse his gushers of the notion that his brilliant PR savvy has converted Sweeney and even Richard Behar. *They* didn't say that, but, they're also not on the blog disputing it.

Interesting times...

Zinj

 

[Alanzo]

They are interesting times.

Times they are a-changin again.

The whole Scientology landscape is different now. The biggest difference is that there are hundreds of newly-out-of-the-Church-Scientologists who are discussing Scientology openly on the Internet. Hundreds, maybe even thousands, are allowing themselves to have access to non-Church-approved information and discussions on Scientology.

This trend is now unstoppable.

 

[Infinite]

. . . Oh, newest tidbit; apparently Panorama will include a segment of Marty 'auditing' John Sweeney, with Mike Rinder looking on benevolently.

 

[Zinjifar]

Caption:

'That's a Rockslam Sweeney! You have overts against Ron!'

Zinj

 

[Infinite]

Caption:

'That's a Rockslam Sweeney! You have overts against Ron!'

Zinj

Caption: Pull my finger.

EDIT: What was the "Farrakahn Fiasco"? Haven't been reading over at martyland much since my ban.

 

[Type4_PTS]

Caption:

'That's a Rockslam Sweeney! You have overts against Ron!'

On the actual page where that picture is located this is the text that goes with the picture:

"Marty Rathbun, a former Inspector General at the Church of Scientology, demonstrates the E-meter, a piece of technology central to the Scientology belief, to John Sweeney. The E-meter is used in a form of counselling called 'Auditing'."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00v1ykr

Did Sweeney actually get auditing? Or just a demonstration, like a stress test?

 

[Zinjifar]

Caption: Pull my finger.

EDIT: What was the "Farrakahn Fiasco"? Haven't been reading over at martyland much since my ban.

Apparently there's lots of skullduggery going on behind the scenes between Farrakahn's 'Nation of Islam' and the 'Church' of Scientology. Farrakahn has announced that all the NoIers will have to take 'Dianetics' courses; specifically *not* Scientology and he's spoken approvingly of L. Ron Hubbard. Which led Marty to announce his own 'gush' that 'Farrakahn Gets Ron!' (you can still find the thread. Up to and including Marty announcing that he was going to reconsider the implications and announce his policy. Which never happened.)

In the meantime, there are other schisms in NoI that are less than happy with Loooie and Scientology.

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/08/22/louis-farrakhan-gets-l-ron-hubbard/#comments

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19836


Zinj

 

[Infinite]

Apparently there's lots of skullduggery . . . snip . . . with Loooie and Scientology.

Thanks Zinj. I was up with the play on the NoI dissenters but hadn't seen the Martyland post . . . hehehehe, excellent!!

 

[Terril park]

Its a pinch test, stress test or meter demo. Not auditing.

In auditing the PC dosn't see the meter.

 

[Infinite]

Its a pinch test, stress test or meter demo. Not auditing.

In auditing the PC dosn't see the meter.

Yeah, I know, but thanks, Terril. The caption at the BBC site where I filched the picture says that its just a demo.