From Miss X - About Annie Broeker

[AnonKat]

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[Commander Birdsong]

HI SMILLA

What a nice freedom loving guy Marty Rathbun is. I don't think that there's much difference between him and Miscavige. No... wait... There is. Miscavige has the money. Life's a bitch.

DM has the money and Marty has his self determinism back. He's not complaining about people writing up things he did much less siccing a new OSA on them. Maybe someone could collect all the "Marty did this" stories and get him to verify or deny and make comments etc sometime but in PRESENT TIME the guy is doing something. Hey! What a concept! Doing something. I wonder what would happen if a concept like that ever caught on.

 

[Mick Wenlock]

The interesting thing to me is that this word "apostate" only appears in OSA negative PR press releases.

It is not used anywhere in Ron Hubbard's own materials that I ever saw.

The Sneakster

Well its just an attempt to try to position the opposition - sort of like my referring to those still in as "True Believers" - no Scientologist still in would recognize the term.

 

[Mick Wenlock]

DM has the money and Marty has his self determinism back. He's not complaining about people writing up things he did much less siccing a new OSA on them. Maybe someone could collect all the "Marty did this" stories and get him to verify or deny and make comments etc sometime but in PRESENT TIME the guy is doing something. Hey! What a concept! Doing something. I wonder what would happen if a concept like that ever caught on.

Well we could all be posting about how great Hubbard was, or how nothing that ever happened that was bad had anything to do with his insane ideas.

I mean that would be really doing something...

 

[AnonyMary]

DM has the money and Marty has his self determinism back. He's not complaining about people writing up things he did much less siccing a new OSA on them. Maybe someone could collect all the "Marty did this" stories and get him to verify or deny and make comments etc sometime but in PRESENT TIME the guy is doing something. Hey! What a concept! Doing something. I wonder what would happen if a concept like that ever caught on.

What Msrty does is not accept the posts people make on his blog about these things, so you never hear about them over there.

I think that compiling a list of things he did that he has not taken responsibility for is a terrific idea - although I have enough projects on my hands so I could not take that on. Just having it all in once place would be good, though his ego is too big to address and apologize for any of them.
Perhaps if you or someone started a thread so people can post what they know about these things, and then someone can then put a list together from it. There are certainly enough of them to warrant that!

 

[Zinjifar]

The problem with asking questions about what Marty 'did' while 'in' (and in charge of 'doing things' is that we can only ask about what we know about. Scientology is a criminal conspiracy and Marty was one of the lead conspirators and the essence of that conspiracy is the conspiracy of silence.

So far the few things he's 'confessed' to have raised more questions than they've answered and he's not talking. And, when he is talking, he's not complete or credible.

His blog is no substitute for a witness stand.

Zinj

 

[AnonKat]

The problem with asking questions about what Marty 'did' while 'in' (and in charge of 'doing things' is that we can only ask about what we know about. Scientology is a criminal conspiracy and Marty was one of the lead conspirators and the essence of that conspiracy is the conspiracy of silence.

So far the few things he's 'confessed' to have raised more questions than they've answered and he's not talking. And, when he is talking, he's not complete or credible.

His blog is no substitute for a witness stand.

Zinj

THANK GOT IT ISN'T. You, Me and mr. Rathbun KNOW he would be crushed by the Church of Scientology if he opened himself up for legal scrutiny.

I do not want to see that happen. No free gifts to the Cult.

I do not like

 

[AnonKat]

osalicious

What Msrty does is not accept the posts people make on his blog about these things, so you never hear about them over there.

I think that compiling a list of things he did that he has not taken responsibility for is a terrific idea - although I have enough projects on my hands so I could not take that on. Just having it all in once place would be good, though his ego is too big to address and apologize for any of them.
Perhaps if you or someone started a thread so people can post what they know about these things, and then someone can then put a list together from it. There are certainly enough of them to warrant that!

Here is a site that collects unposted comments

http://martyrathbunblog.com/?page_id=222

Comments Mark Rathbun Won't Post

It seems that Mark Rathbun aka ‘Marty’ aka “Marcus Brutus” Rathbun doesn’t like people challenging his Zen Master status. I have often tried to post on Marty’s site, but he has never posted what I have to say. It is clear from his recent rant (see my post The Way To Happiness – For Marcus Brutus paragraph 1) that there are many who don’t agree with him and who try to post on his site.

Mark Rathbun dumps their viewpoint and only allows those who worship him, or those who hate the Church or COB.

Please feel free to post here those posts that the Guru doesn’t want others to see.
-Minerva

(For those who didn't get it I am being satirical)

 

[Zinjifar]

THANK GOT IT ISN'T. You, Me and mr. Rathbun KNOW he would be crushed by the Church of Scientology if he opened himself up for legal scrutiny.

I do not want to see that happen. No free gifts to the Cult.

I do not like

I'm not sure what your point is here. I couldn't care less whether Marty Rathbun is 'crushed' or not for whatever crimes he committed while in the 'Church' of Scientology. And, any crushing he experienced as a result of legal scrutiny into his activities would be equally or more 'crushing' to David Miscavige and the 'Church' of Scientology as a whole. So, a little collateral Rathbun crushing seems acceptable. Naturally, he *could* cut himself a deal instead, but, that too would require that he tell the truth; on the stand; under oath.

Are you trying to say that we should avoid legal inquiry into and prosecution of the 'Church' of Scientology because it might hurt Marty Rathbun?

Zinj

 

[Lurker5]

another bump

 

[Jachs]

Even though Hubbard claimed that Scientology uses infinity valued logic, I don't see its use anywhere in Scientology.

I see a very dualistic two-valued logic in use in almost all aspects.

Especially when Hubbard talks about "Theta vs. MEST" and "Exterior vs. Interior" and "100 Percent Standard Tech" etc.

Can you give us an example of Scientology's use of infinity-valued logic?

Yep i know , Alanzo & Zinj are not going to reply ,

but this debate on Hubbards use of Korzypskis Infinity valued Logic versus Aristotles two valued logic is very good.

also i think George Boole An Investigation of the Laws of Thought was discussed.

 

[Auditor's Toad]

Yeah, this is a thread with many posters long gone from ESMB, but, damn, what a good read this thread still is !

 

[Ogsonofgroo]

Bumpers for posterity~

 

[Gadfly]

Yep i know , Alanzo & Zinj are not going to reply ,

but this debate on Hubbards use of Korzypskis Infinity valued Logic versus Aristotles two valued logic is very good.

also i think George Boole An Investigation of the Laws of Thought was discussed.

Scientology uses "infinity-valued logic" at every step along the way. That is what GRADIENTS are. The entire indoctrination system, the concept behind the "Bridge", and the whole process of entrapment by Scientology is conducted on "a gradient". A little bit at a time.

The notion of two-valued logic is "yes" or "no". It involves the idea of "absolutes" where there are two extremes, such as black or white. Infinite-valued logic covers everything BETWEEN the two (theoretical) extremes - including every possible shade of grey. Infinite-valued logic correlates more closely to reality, where people and situations are forever shifting and where people anjd situations often do NOT exist at any "extreme" or "absolute" level.

Granted, in Scientology there ARE MANY ideas that do exist as absolutes (which should be strange for a subject that claims that "absolutes do not exist"):

All critics are SPs.

Scientology is the ONLY way.

ONLY we have the tech to create a better world.

Any person against us MUST have hidden nasty crimes of major magnitude.

All illness is caused by PTSness.

The OT Levels are the most valuable services in the universe.

Your future for all eternity depends entirely on what you do HERE NOW with Scientology.

And, on and on for a great many statements that exist as extremes, and which do not exist along the gradient space between the two extremes of two-valued logic.

Hubbard states that "absolutes do not exist" (they don't outside of your mind), BUT then Hubbard makes a great many extreme and near absolute statements about a great many things. Just more contradictions in Scientology. :confused2:

 

[Free to shine]

Time for a

 

[Gib]

Time for a

I wish all these folks could have read the Heinlein letters between Heinlein and Hubbard & between Heinlein & Campbell. I believe it would fill in some blanks to provide a more interesting conversation between these folks who are quite good at explaining the con, if you will.

I wish these folks could have had that info from the very beginning of the Dianetics release and continue the conversation.

 

[PirateAndBum]

Annie Tidman (Broker) died June 14, 2011

R.I.P Annie

https://www.villagevoice.com/2012/0...er-famous-in-the-church-had-to-die-in-secret/

 

[Tilly]

Reposted with permission.


Annie told me a lot of stories while we worked around the clock on the never ending Gold org board/postings when I was WDC Gold and she was CO CMO Gold in 1999/2000.

Just a few random things I can remember is that she and LRH lived at the Creston ranch in San Luis Obispo -- LRH lived there under some other identity and the locals were told that Annie was his grand daughter, living with him to take care of him. She said she used to do all his haircuts, type up all his dictations (Battlefield Earth and Mission Earth included), he C/Sed her every day on OT III when she was on that level. He took himself in session all the time. He told her wild stories about math and how to figure out certain things about the universe with math (I must admit I didn't retain anything she told me about that -- too complex for a 3am conversation at the time).

For a very long period, she drove him around the US in a huge RV - they were always on the road, just the two of them and whatever pets they had. She said it was stressful as she had to deal with driving, meals, laundry, directions, where to park/stay, security, mailpack pickup/deliveries. He was in the back dictating the books and replies to traffic, etc., which she had to type too. She wasn't complaining, just saying that it was wild times with a lot of adventures and interesting keeping up with everything.

Several years earlier, Annie and I also did the RPF together when she was busted as "Loyal Officer". Pat I guess was kicked out of the SO and she was sent to the Int RPF and divorced him. She told me a few times that she couldn't believe she married such a nut. (I knew nothing about Pat and didn't ask her why she felt that way).

I know she blew at one point when her next husband Jim Logan left. She tried to go after him. She told me that Marty Rathbun at the time flew out and caught her at the airport and escorted her back to Happy Valley ranch near the Int base, where she did MEST work for the next few years and re-read all the books while isolated from the rest of the crew, under watch full time by Mike Sutter. She said she finally came through that and realized Logan was also a nut so she decided she's never getting married again and would rather do photography (her sideline passion) as it's creative and the 2nd dynamic is really creativity.

I know she was very aware that things were way off the rails at Int and how the organization was falling apart (being destroyed).

I hope to meet up with her again some day.

LuLu Belle, I found this. If it's true Annie is dead.

https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=98270163

 

[Gizmo]

So much valuable early in this thread from the people who were there ' back then ' seeing things first hand !

May Annie R.I.P>