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The Great Zorg

Gold Meritorious Patron
Hm

If the OP was banned forever and is a known troll, handler or operative, then why not just lock out the thread permanently? Ressurection of a banned member's OP becomes impossible and so the chaos comes to a halt. The original thread still available for viewing as an archive, should anyone need to bother. :confused2:
 
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You're still reading.
OK.
Will finding out the truth about Alex really hurt that much?


My perspective is:
How much time did Alex keep people hanging on just trying to understand him. His twisted persona, real or not,was fascinating. He was an expert troll in some ways. (I think). I did get to know that he was creepy or at least created a creepy persona. That is all I could interract with so my only reference is creepy, maybe a very unusual person and he kept some pretty smart people engaged, (really; hooked) But in the end, for what. In scientologese, for enturbulation and dev T.

Next point: Do you really think you are going to find out anything?
Or are you going to get more Alex run around? How will you know what is true? By asking this Posteur? Right, good luck with that.
Not trying to convince you of course. Just my perspective.
 
My perspective is:
How much time did Alex keep people hanging on just trying to understand him. His twisted persona, real or not,was fascinating. He was an expert troll in some ways. (I think). I did get to know that he was creepy or at least created a creepy persona. That is all I could interract with so my only reference is creepy, maybe a very unusual person and he kept some pretty smart people engaged, (really; hooked) But in the end, for what. In scientologese, for enturbulation and dev T.

Next point: Do you really think you are going to find out anything?
Or are you going to get more Alex run around? How will you know what is true? By asking this Posteur? Right, good luck with that.
Not trying to convince you of course. Just my perspective.

Ps. which threads was I distracted from while writing this waste of time post?
 

Carmel

Crusader
Cold warrior stuff. He makes no bones about being on Scientology's side. Understood that some will immediately view this as an enemy, and to some extent, it's true, but it's not a betrayal, IMO, because he announced his intent from the start. Wants to reform the Church, but doesn't want it to stop being scientology. I hadn't realized he'd done this, but it doesn't surprise me.
I considered it in direct conflict with the purpose and terms of this board, and I didn't think he'd ever go that far.

In my mind, Alex overstepped the mark on many occasion and abused the privilege of being here, but that action was way beyond the realm of what any could deem as acceptable.........He knew that........Maybe a last ditch effort on his part, but he failed.
 

nexus100

Gold Meritorious Patron
I didn't-and don't-believe Alex was a "real" person, but an assembled individual run by some shop designed to attack ESMB and its members. The reason I believe so, ultimately, is why the FZ'rs began their own board and that the twin M's won't come here. You just can't read ESMB and not change reality.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
You're still reading.
OK.
Will finding out the truth about Alex really hurt that much?

It would be nice, but, it's unlikely. Alex was (possibly still is) adept at presenting 'mock ups' then allowing the gullible to 'fill in the blanks' for him, then later adopting the mock up as his own.

Including 'letting slip' over the course of more than a decade, little tidbits of 'private truth' to me and allowing me to form my own 'picture' of him. Which picture is potentially as illusory as anyone elses.

I would be hesitant to 'accept' anything he had to say about himself at 'face value', including seemingly inadvertent revelations.

*Fact* is however that about 3 years ago, following the first blush of Anon protests, someone who identified himself as 'Alex' introduced himself to an anon at an anon protest at the Sacramento Org and that later 'our' Alex here on ESMB confirmed that introduction and, in chat, if memory serves me right, provided his own picture of himself at the protest.

That's, as far as I know, the only real world bit of information, and, even that tells us nothing about 'real' Alex, because it's not impossible that the person who introduced himself as Alex in Sacramento was *not* the Alex who later 'confirmed' the sighting here on ESMB.

So much for that; wheels within wheels, and, not very important.

Zinj
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
I didn't-and don't-believe Alex was a "real" person, but an assembled individual run by some shop designed to attack ESMB and its members. The reason I believe so, ultimately, is why the FZ'rs began their own board and that the twin M's won't come here. You just can't read ESMB and not change reality.

Alex had a long history on ARS previous to ESMB. 99% of his activity was innocuous, with 1% being some hair-raisingly malicious attacks on persons, usually in part of an OSA 'full court press' followed by another 'benign' period of 'arc building'. So, about the same as here.

Zinj
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
Maybe she did Carmel but so have many who post here and sometimes I miss the "loose cannon" perspective that posters like Alex and Bjorkist brought to ESMB. They were definitely in a different class to some of their latter day counterparts.

Aren't you just a little bit curious to know whether or not Alex was ever really trolling for OSA (she always said she was not). She's named as a known troll on Lermanet but then again it's on the same page where Claire is tarred with the same brush.

Aren't you just a little curious to know whether Alex was only pretending to be a man/woman?

Was she a 47 year old woman or a 54 year old man?

Don't you wonder what was happening in Alex's life when she wrote on August 30;

if not remembered
what will I be?
What was I anyway
what did you see?
was I what I am?
or what you thought?
was I anything?
something substantial
or naught...

What of the daughter of Alex who asked on October 17th;

I wonder where you are.
Are you some cute little baby?
An angel with wings?
Or just a memory
.

I argued often with Alex, exchanged heated PMs with Alex, alternately loathed and loved her viewpoints.
I would like very much to understand her.

Is she dead?

Not to me.
 
Maybe she did Carmel but so have many who post here and sometimes I miss the "loose cannon" perspective that posters like Alex and Bjorkist brought to ESMB. They were definitely in a different class to some of their latter day counterparts.

Aren't you just a little bit curious to know whether or not Alex was ever really trolling for OSA (she always said she was not). She's named as a known troll on Lermanet but then again it's on the same page where Claire is tarred with the same brush.

Aren't you just a little curious to know whether Alex was only pretending to be a man/woman?

Was she a 47 year old woman or a 54 year old man?

Don't you wonder what was happening in Alex's life when she wrote on August 30;

if not remembered
what will I be?
What was I anyway
what did you see?
was I what I am?
or what you thought?
was I anything?
something substantial
or naught...

What of the daughter of Alex who asked on October 17th;

I wonder where you are.
Are you some cute little baby?
An angel with wings?
Or just a memory
.

I argued often with Alex, exchanged heated PMs with Alex, alternately loathed and loved her viewpoints.
I would like very much to understand her.

Is she dead?

Not to me.


Curiosity is all very well, but it is part of Alex's bait.
 

nexus100

Gold Meritorious Patron
Alex had a long history on ARS previous to ESMB. 99% of his activity was innocuous, with 1% being some hair-raisingly malicious attacks on persons, usually in part of an OSA 'full court press' followed by another 'benign' period of 'arc building'. So, about the same as here.

Zinj

Thanks for the info. An assembled individual could mean one person who is the last link in a chain of command but getting input and orders from others on a regular basis. I think someone decided, accurately, that a "real" person would better serve their purposes. As exampled in Carmel's case and likely others we don't have an A to B line on, it worked. However as in everything, I could be wrong.
 

Carmel

Crusader
Maybe she did Carmel but so have many who post here and sometimes I miss the "loose cannon" perspective that posters like Alex and Bjorkist brought to ESMB. They were definitely in a different class to some of their latter day counterparts.

Aren't you just a little bit curious to know whether or not Alex was ever really trolling for OSA (she always said she was not). She's named as a known troll on Lermanet but then again it's on the same page where Claire is tarred with the same brush.

Aren't you just a little curious to know whether Alex was only pretending to be a man/woman?

Was she a 47 year old woman or a 54 year old man?

Don't you wonder what was happening in Alex's life when she wrote on August 30;

if not remembered
what will I be?
What was I anyway
what did you see?
was I what I am?
or what you thought?
was I anything?
something substantial
or naught...

What of the daughter of Alex who asked on October 17th;

I wonder where you are.
Are you some cute little baby?
An angel with wings?
Or just a memory
.

I argued often with Alex, exchanged heated PMs with Alex, alternately loathed and loved her viewpoints.
I would like very much to understand her.

Is she dead?

Not to me.
I'm curious to know whether the Alex we knew is alive or dead.

I don't buy that the "guest" was Alex's daughter", coz I know Alex to be a man, *not* woman.

I don't believe that Alex was being run by OSA.......I believe that he was driven by his own passions (as misguided as they may have been), and that his trolling was motivated by his own personal OSA dept which he ran as he saw fit.

I felt for him. I think he was misguided and mixed up. At the same time though, some of his posts and pm's to me, pissed me off.

Alex.....A man with multiple personalties.......Some of those personalities were likeable and some weren't. I've had a fair bit to do with Alex....Not much mystery there concerning Alex, in my world, but mixed feelings for sure.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Maybe she did Carmel but so have many who post here and sometimes I miss the "loose cannon" perspective that posters like Alex and Bjorkist brought to ESMB. They were definitely in a different class to some of their latter day counterparts.

Aren't you just a little bit curious to know whether or not Alex was ever really trolling for OSA (she always said she was not). She's named as a known troll on Lermanet but then again it's on the same page where Claire is tarred with the same brush.

Aren't you just a little curious to know whether Alex was only pretending to be a man/woman?

Was she a 47 year old woman or a 54 year old man?

Don't you wonder what was happening in Alex's life when she wrote on August 30;

if not remembered
what will I be?
What was I anyway
what did you see?
was I what I am?
or what you thought?
was I anything?
something substantial
or naught...

What of the daughter of Alex who asked on October 17th;

I wonder where you are.
Are you some cute little baby?
An angel with wings?
Or just a memory
.

I argued often with Alex, exchanged heated PMs with Alex, alternately loathed and loved her viewpoints.
I would like very much to understand her.

Is she dead?

Not to me.

My personal opinion is that Alex did provide a much needed viewpoint here.

Scientology needs intelligent people who can stick to the point and argue effectively for it. And they need them here.

WE need them here.

When you hang out with people who all think like you do, you forget a lot of very valid and valuable things which should continue to inform your personal evolution.

Marty's blog, The Scientology Forum, and here - when people like Alex are allowed to exist - continually remind me of things in Scientology which I should never forget.

The truth has no "side".

Alex was a valuable contributor here.
 

Good twin

Floater
I agree with Panda. I think this thread is an appropriate place for a proper eulogy for Alex.

Alex was an outsider with permission to enter and exit at will in our experience here for a very long time. Alex made many claims about himself/herself. Alex PMed many of us to "explain" himself/herself, but never explained everything. Alex enjoyed being an enigma wrapped in a conundrum.

It appeared that Alex was in a similar position with the cult as he/she was with us. While we were reaching out to assist Alex and having him/her taunt us and refuse our willingness to understand or assist, the cult was doing the same thing. And I'm sure they were getting the same response. Alex made his/her most vicious comments while disguised with sock puppets. He was always hiding, lurking, and yes trolling. I think he was this way with the cult as well. It was clear that he/she was afraid. Of us, of the cult, of the truth about himself/herself.

I sincerely hope that Alex experienced honesty and sincerity in his/her life. I hope that Alex had real realtionships and open communication with someone somewhere at some time in his/her life. I hope that Alex will be remembered as more than what we will remember him/her as.

Offspring of Alex, very much like Alex, arrived here with a short and upsetting message and already has the community divided. I suppose the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. But just like everything else surrounding Alex it is still quite unclear if there actually is and apple or even a tree. Offspring of Alex could just be Alex. Alex has created accounts on this and other forums including MySpace and FaceBook that he/she admitted were simply part of his/her disguise. It doesn't matter. Either Alex or Offspring of Alex has informed us and is no doubt interested in our response.

When I arrived here on ESMB I was mid freefalling from the cult to real life. Everyone here was part of whatever recover from that that I have accomplished. I said I love you all, including Alex. (he/she thanked me for that) I do and I always will. (even if you are lurking with a sick and pathetic agenda)

RIP Alex :arose:
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
It's possible that more than one person posted or posed as Alex.
Anything is possible, I guess. I was told that the "Alex" who introduced himself to Anons at the protest mentioned by Zinj was an infiltrator. Being pro-scn, it may have amused Alex to confirm that it was "him". I asked about it once but never got a straight answer.
I'm waiting to hear back from someone who actually knew the person referred to as Mom.

FWIW, "pretending to be dead" is more a ruse used by Ex-scn'ists than supporters of scn.
 
My personal opinion is that Alex did provide a much needed viewpoint here.

Scientology needs intelligent people who can stick to the point and argue effectively for it. And they need them here.

WE need them here.

When you hang out with people who all think like you do, you forget a lot of very valid and valuable things which should continue to inform your personal evolution.

Marty's blog, The Scientology Forum, and here - when people like Alex are allowed to exist - continually remind me of things in Scientology which I should never forget.

The truth has no "side".

Alex was a valuable contributor here.

I am the Anabaptist Jacques and I approve of this message.

In Scientology we encountered many lives and views. If we are going to discuss that experience honestly then no view should be excluded or discounted. Because will lead to the same thing happening all over again.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 

Carmel

Crusader
<snip>

The truth has no "side".

Alex was a valuable contributor here.
Sure, *truth* has no side, but BS does.

I don't consider Alex was a valuable contributor, coz he didn't promote truths and/or wouldn't look at them.
 
Sure, *truth* has no side, but BS does.

I don't consider Alex was a valuable contributor, coz he didn't promote truths.

When Alex or anybody promotes what we consider to be BS, then it sharpens our minds.

If what Alex said had an element of truth in it, then to that degree we refine and reconsider our views.

But when an opposing view enters into the picture, it either makes us more certain of our side, or makes us modify our side, or makes us reconsider any flaws in our side. So it benefits us no matter what the content is.

Personally, I hated Alex, but he/she/they helped me refined my own point of view.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 

nexus100

Gold Meritorious Patron
To exist as Alex solo, he would have to be Machiavelian in orbit and posture, a person with manic deviousness and similar intelligence. He'd have to be unable to change, to see, to experience on a human level, but would be a real corker at compartmentalization. In looking it over I wonder if it wouldnt have to be one person since most COS folks are bound by Scientology notions of how to approach things. But I still suspect he wasn't operating alone, because without someone to release ideas to he would start to fall in. I don't have much experience with people who are truly operating with multiple personalities on a daily basis, though. Part of that realm could be when change threatens one form, change into another. On some level we all do that, of course. Buddhism is the operation of watching these forms pass through, Idenics is hunting them down. Ah well, we'll see what happens as the pages turn.
 
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