Ken and Yvonne Schick Resignation

[scooter]

My God! Scientology *works!*

I guess I need to reevaluate...

Zinj

Make sure you use the Data Series PLs in FULL

AND report full compliance to Emma when you're done - or you don't go home until you do.

 

[Emma]

Huh? Was this on some *other* thread? Damn them! Those intolerant mud-slingers!!!

Zinj

Are you trying to pretend it doesn't happen? :confused2:

 

[Zinjifar]

Are you trying to pretend it doesn't happen? :confused2:

Not necessarily; only that it *didn't*

Zinj

 

[nexus100]

Emma bet me to the punch here. But I can't let this go.

These people, Ken and Yvonne, have been massively active and supportive of the church for a combined 50+ years. They have contributed millions in hard earned money; neither was born rich or trust babies or anything of the sort. As people they are winners, the church considered them amongst their best success stories and examples, under any circumstances and from any perspective their departure is a victory against the strength of the church.

Zinj, check my post date and time, and Marty's blog entry date and time. Their letter was sent to me by email and I posted it here. I have an email header on it that does not exist in Marty's posting. Check your facts before you start whining and crying like a spoiled little school girl who has had her Barbie taken away. And how in the hell can my "intentions" in posting this be somehow nefarious?

Up until yesterday, the Schick’s has never written or spoken to Marty, even though they refer to his blog, they sent him a copy and asked him to post for broad distribution. I don't think they spoke with anyone, though read a number of blogs. Their resignation email went viral within hours, I didn't even know they were on the fence and both of them are friends. This is a sign of the crumbling church where good and high level people on their own, observing abuses within the church and researching available data make their own decisions and act.

When I told them I was posting their letter on ESMB, they were reluctant as having read it; they felt it was not friendly to their perspective nor would be friendly to them. I assured them that though rough around the edges, there were exceptional people here well worth getting to know. Thanks for backing me up on this Zinj.

There are a few people on this board who post and write with such disgusting manners that things become abhorrent to readers of different perspectives or positions in their own recovery.

Life, success and happiness in this society and civilization require, demand good human relations, the ability to create maintain and expand them. It is more important than education, genetics, race, socioeconomic and all other factors put together. Those few here who insist on ramming their personal perspective down others throats with snide or degrading comments, then cry like spoiled children because others don't want to play with them in their sand box ... a sand box they thoroughly and repeatedly shit in. Many people won't engage, much less enjoy it. If such demonstrates how they interact with others in real life, I don't have to know more about them to know they are disengaged from real life, miserable or consider themselves failures.

As far as I am concerned the brightest and most positive thing about ESMB is the vast majority of people want to engage in honest, open and respectful communication that helps themselves and others in personal recovery. I believe that those doing such are poising themselves for improved future success and happiness.

Zinj, my curiosity of you, your wit and intelligence has been thoroughly extinguished. Please don't comment on my posts and I won't comment on yours.

I'm kind of on Zinj's side here, if a side exists. Generally the folks who complain most about ESMB have an unspoken agenda. What's yours?

 

[Terril park]

Emma bet me to the punch here. But I can't let this go.

These people, Ken and Yvonne, have been massively active and supportive of the church for a combined 50+ years. They have contributed millions in hard earned money; neither was born rich or trust babies or anything of the sort. As people they are winners, the church considered them amongst their best success stories and examples, under any circumstances and from any perspective their departure is a victory against the strength of the church.

Zinj, check my post date and time, and Marty's blog entry date and time. Their letter was sent to me by email and I posted it here. I have an email header on it that does not exist in Marty's posting. Check your facts before you start whining and crying like a spoiled little school girl who has had her Barbie taken away. And how in the hell can my "intentions" in posting this be somehow nefarious?

Up until yesterday, the Schick’s has never written or spoken to Marty, even though they refer to his blog, they sent him a copy and asked him to post for broad distribution. I don't think they spoke with anyone, though read a number of blogs. Their resignation email went viral within hours, I didn't even know they were on the fence and both of them are friends. This is a sign of the crumbling church where good and high level people on their own, observing abuses within the church and researching available data make their own decisions and act.

When I told them I was posting their letter on ESMB, they were reluctant as having read it; they felt it was not friendly to their perspective nor would be friendly to them. I assured them that though rough around the edges, there were exceptional people here well worth getting to know. Thanks for backing me up on this Zinj.

There are a few people on this board who post and write with such disgusting manners that things become abhorrent to readers of different perspectives or positions in their own recovery.

Life, success and happiness in this society and civilization require, demand good human relations, the ability to create maintain and expand them. It is more important than education, genetics, race, socioeconomic and all other factors put together. Those few here who insist on ramming their personal perspective down others throats with snide or degrading comments, then cry like spoiled children because others don't want to play with them in their sand box ... a sand box they thoroughly and repeatedly shit in. Many people won't engage, much less enjoy it. If such demonstrates how they interact with others in real life, I don't have to know more about them to know they are disengaged from real life, miserable or consider themselves failures.

As far as I am concerned the brightest and most positive thing about ESMB is the vast majority of people want to engage in honest, open and respectful communication that helps themselves and others in personal recovery. I believe that those doing such are poising themselves for improved future success and happiness.

Zinj, my curiosity of you, your wit and intelligence has been thoroughly extinguished. Please don't comment on my posts and I won't comment on yours.

Col rant!

 

[Terril park]

So are you telling me you don't see the cynicism and sarcasm in the first 5 or 6 posts that follwed the OP?

Really? Wow.

This isn't the first time this has happened. It usually goes something like this....

A long term Scientologist finally leaves and does the Scientological thing with a Doubt Formula. But because the doubt formula doesn't label Hubbard a criminal and they still find value in the tech, they're scoffed at and ridiculed. I've seen it quite a few times and I just don't get it.

Maybe some of you were brighter than me, or maybe you just have poor memories, but it took me YEARS to shake the desire to find an alternative to Scientology. I never did anything about it but that was mainly due to their being a lack of FZ or Scn alternatives in Aus. The fact remains though that I wanted and felt I *needed* to be connected to some kind of "tech".

Does that make me weak? I dunno, but I can hardly judge others who have the same "weakness" as me.

Just because after 5 years I no longer felt any need for "tech" doesn't make it right that I look down on those who do.

Some folks seem to get out and shed that skin straight away. Kudos to them. But not everyone can.

While you can educate and provide information for folks, you can't "make" someone believe what you believe, despite a mountain of evidence in your favour. Just try that with any diehard Christian. It doesn't work.

All I'm saying is give these people a break. Not just the Schicks but anyone who leaves the church. It's a BIG BRAVE decision to do so. At least grant them that.

Another cool rant!

 

[Panda Termint]

Just as general commentary, apropos of nothing other than how this good news has been received by some here on ESMB...

There are, it has been said, two types of people in the world. There are those who, when presented with a glass that is exactly half-full, say: this glass is half full. And then there are those who say: this glass is half-empty. The world belongs, however, to those who can look at the glass and say: What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass! – Terry Pratchett

 

[nexus100]

Double meaningless posts. Hm.

 

[nexus100]

Just as general commentary, apropos of nothing other than how this good news has been received by some here on ESMB...

There are, it has been said, two types of people in the world. There are those who, when presented with a glass that is exactly half-full, say: this glass is half full. And then there are those who say: this glass is half-empty. The world belongs, however, to those who can look at the glass and say: What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass! – Terry Pratchett

WHAT SONOFABITCH TOOK MY GLASS!

 

[Panda Termint]

@ Nexus

 

[Zinjifar]

The Optimist sees the glass as half-full
The Pessimist sees it as half empty
The Realist sees it as polluted with coliform bacteria
The Cynic wants the Optimist to drink it

Zinj

 

[Panda Termint]

Zinj, Are you claiming to be a Realist?
Is the moral of this Moral, "Never accept a drink from a cycnic"?

 

[TG1]

I'm tickled that the Schicks are out. And that they wrote and distributed this letter. And that Mike posted it here. And that they've received some congratulations here at ESMB for it.

To the Schicks ... you did real good!

TG1

 

[Zinjifar]

I'm tickled that the Schicks are out. And that they wrote and distributed this letter. And that Mike posted it here. And that that they've received some congratulations here at ESMB for it.

To the Schicks ... you did real good!

TG1

Agreed.

Zinj

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Just as general commentary, apropos of nothing other than how this good news has been received by some here on ESMB...

There are, it has been said, two types of people in the world. There are those who, when presented with a glass that is exactly half-full, say: this glass is half full. And then there are those who say: this glass is half-empty. The world belongs, however, to those who can look at the glass and say: What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass! – Terry Pratchett

Love Pratchett.


Although Zinj's "pollution" line is one I came up with myself many years ago. He's wrong though. A cynic wouldn't want an optimist to drink it. A cynic would EXPECT an optimist to drink it.


Mark A. Baker

 

[I told you I was trouble]

The Optimist sees the glass as half-full
The Pessimist sees it as half empty
The Realist sees it as polluted with coliform bacteria
The Cynic wants the Optimist to drink it

Zinj

Posted by Mike Laws

snipped


There are a few people on this board who post and write with such disgusting manners that things become abhorrent to readers of different perspectives or positions in their own recovery.

I am guilty of rudeness to those that post (second hand) scientology rave success stories here, and I meant every word.

This is the wrong place to post them and the people that do so are, IMO either bullbaiting or marketing and that is disgustingly bad mannered and abhorrent even more so when they slide one liners in about the rest of us (many of whom are in healing mode themselves) being insane and evil if we post anything other than sycophantic agreement.

 

[SweetnessandLight]

A Hearty Welcome to all Newbie Exes!!!

* Sweetness smooths down everyone's ruffled hackles everywhere, and consistantly drinks from the glass that is half-full*

Hurrah! Two more long time Scientology supporters are out of the COS. Itty bitty baby newbie Exes! Welcome to your new freedom to look, to think and act. That is a very good thing, indeed. Seems like they are role models and/or opinion leaders of great influence, so I hope their leaving COS will have a big ripple effect. Good luck to them in all they do as Independants! I do hope at some point they may join us here on the board, or at least lurk and do some reading and research to see what they have not been allowed to know about their "church" during their years of service to the COS..

Welcome newbies Lori and Celt to the board. Enjoy your visits here.

I'm glad that Mike shared this good news with us here. My only qualm or question is about Mike posting an email from them on this board, possibly without their prior approval or permission, but maybe I misread that. If so, nevermind...but for all of us, in our eagerness to share good news, it's easy to violate people's boundaries without really meaning to. Sorry, Mike, I mean no offense by this, and I don't mean it as a criticism, just a caution to us all. Maybe this news is big enough that it would have been spread about quite a bit, regardless of your posting their resignation letter here. If you did get their permission first, then good, just ignore this.

I don't care about the Mike and Marty boilerplate...I care that people are GETTING OUT!!!

Hopefully a flurry of their friends will follow their lead.

Big Hugs to the Schicks!

 

[degraded being]

I had no intention of criticising the two people in the OP.
They are out = good.
They were (so I am told), were well thought of by many, so they may influence many others to get out. = good.
They have a shit load of cash, which will, I suppose not go to the cult inside the org walls. = good. (unless the cult manages to get it one way or another.)

I still do not want to criticise them.

But I do not buy into the "opinion leader" paradigm that Zinj mentioned either, except that in the sense that they may influence others to get out I think it's positive.

When "high flyers" come out, - people who were known by many, were very successful, had lots of money (which they gave to the cult) etc etc, it bothers me if cynicism is seen to be beneath their dignity. They are after all leaving after many decades of supporting the cult and "successfully" promoting it and supporting it, usually overlooking the things that were distasteful or unethical. This is not an attack on them, it is just to say that cynicism is healthy. Just being "well mannered" because people happen to be high-class types and have associated with the "very best company" in the elite ranks of the cult, and suppressing all cynicism makes me want to throw up. I started by saying that I did not originally intend to criticise the two leavers, and I consider that I still have not criticised them. Others may have.
Someone saying that so-and-so is wonderful, and using success in the cult as the criteria for that, doesn't really work for me.

A class system of cult leavers.

 

[Emma]

I don't care if people leave after 6 months or 30 years, or if they are high flyers or street sweepers. What bothers me is that when people do leave, if they are are at all still interested in the tech or admire Hubbard, they are, more & more, trashed here to varying degrees.

I started ESMB because this kind of behaviour was rampant on OCMB and I wanted a SAFE place for exes to land.

There is a difference between questioning someone's beliefs and engaging them in conversations that get them to look at ALL the facts, and just writing them off in the first 5 minutes because they are still caught in the trap.

Granted, the persons in the OP aren't even posting here. But they probably won't now. In years gone by they would have. We've had plenty of fence sitters arrive on ESMB in the past and through intelligent dialogue and kindness have provided a platform where they can look and read and ask questions in a safe environment and get out of the trap.

It's not really like that much now, much to my regret.

 

[TheSneakster]

We've had plenty of fence sitters arrive on ESMB in the past and through intelligent dialogue and kindness have provided a platform where they can look and read and ask questions in a safe environment and get out of the trap.

It's not really like that much now, much to my regret.

Let's see. Who exactly benefits from ESMB no longer being safe for Ex-Churchies who are still Scientologists ?

Surely you don't believe this current scene came about all by itself?