paradox
ab intra silentio vera
dexter gelfand said:Love, Dex
Hey Lover, you're breaking the rules.
Emma said no more boobs.
The Anabaptist Jacques
dexter gelfand said:Love, Dex
Hey Lover, you're breaking the rules.
Emma said no more boobs.
The Anabaptist Jacques
There has been some speculation here that the M & M show and what has transpired here recently is all part of some sort of elaborate ultra-convoluted OSA / CoS management plot to, to – actually I’m not sure what it is meant to achieve. :confused2:
Quite how having dozens of well-known long-term members of the CoS publically leave the church and say how the CoS no longer follows the aims of it’s founder, helps them is beyond me. Can anyone explain this?
And, I fail to see how having many, many Scientologists publically criticise Miscavige and describe his abuses, portraying him as an insane despot, helps the CoS? All this has done is destroy any vestiges of respectability that they might have had. These things that have been said and documented about Miscavige, cannot be unsaid. They will always be there. Anyone who has worked with SO management know that they never allow any public criticism and cannot tolerate any loss of face. Miscavige would never allow these things to be said about him, if he could stop it.
When the dust finally settles in a few years or so, Scientology will have been thoroughly trashed as far as the general public is concerned. There will be no ‘going back’ or rehabilitation.
I believe that Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder are sincere wanting to remove Miscavige as the head of the CoS. Clearly they are still ‘believers’ in the Tech so naturally they still want to support it.
I have never heard Marty Rathbun state ‘That Scientology can, needs to, should, and MUST "clear the planet".’ I have heard him say that he wasn’t sure that Scientology can provide Total Freedom and I believe that he does not think that ‘Ron was always right’. In fact, I heard him with my own ears admit that he knew that Hubbard had lied about being married to Sarah Northrup and had made up a lot of things about himself to make his life sound more interesting.
I've never heard him say ‘That without availing yourself of Scientology and Scientology "tech", then you will end up suffering for all eternity, in oblivion, dying over and over forever’. In fact, if you actually read what he says on his blog, he often recommends other ways of improving one’s life or situation.
OSA really aren’t that clever. I’ve seen this with my own eyes and many other personal accounts back this up – most of what goes on in the CoS is characterised by chaotic stupidity. They are unable to plan more than a few days in advance, let alone plan, run and maintain a complex subterfuge worthy of a le Carré novel, for years on end.
They can’t do it. How many successful OSA operations have there been? And by successful, I mean permanently successful, not apparently successful in the short-term only to become a footbullet of biblical proportions when the truth gets out?
Axiom142
... But never in the last year (to my recall) have I seen FZers calling MR or those in his group OSA operatives. ...
1. Could you please explain why exposing your DA of Mike Laws means I'm "going out of your way to, as owner and opinion leader of ESMB, pronounce these people as good and acceptable, and thus now making ESMB a supportive environment for them".
Your terminology "exposing your DA" is intentionally biased. I exposed the truth. You are using CoS/OSA terms like "DA" and applying them to me. You have obviously been going out of your way to promote these people, you have betrayed longtime friends Zinjifar, Alanzo, Carmel and others in doing so. There's your answer.
I've heard precisely that on numerous occasions among freezoners. Keep in mind, few freezoners post regularly on boards such as esmb. More lurk, either as members or as a part of the "not logged-in" general internet public. But even they aren't exactly "breaking the doors down" to post on the board. Most are simply involved with other things.
Mark A. Baker
I'm sorry that you are having second thoughts about the advisability of the #2 item.
My two cents only: The m&m show could be an elaborate ploy to "save" Scientology. Everyone knows the reputation of the cult is in the toilet - unsalvageable. M&M frame it as it all being Miscabbages fault and with him gone Scientology will be free of all that is bad and can now really save this sector. It's a scapegoat operation.
Just noting, for the record, that Dex did not answer this question.Dex, yes or no. Is your source a current member of the Sea Org?
It's your site, your forum. You need to run it in the way that is comfortable and right for you, not us. It's not a democracy. And you've been far more tolerant of some of the statements to you than WWP has been. Maybe too tolerant. You spend heaps of hours of your own time on here and nobody has the right to abuse you in your own home.
give it a rest
Show me a PL where this shows how he could remain an OSA OP?
Or show me a GO/OSA issue.
That's right Trin, they might annoy and divide us, but in the end they will go down, their actions here only speed their inevitable demise.
It's all footbullets in the end.
I'm not fully up to date with the goings on here over the last few days but I see there is still a lot of upset in the air.
I think it's surprising that we haven't had a lot more drama over the years because there are two very distinct groups that use this board, Ex scientologists and scientologists (Indie's Freezoners etc) ... one group are here to dump scientology and the other to protect the tek, talk about the tek and effectively promote the tek.
Water and oil don't mix, it is amazing that we get along as well as we do.
FWIW I think the banning's were wrong, I saw chat on the night that it got serious and I did see what has been called disrespect shown to Emma ... but I have seen banter like this many times before between Em and these same people and there was no resultant upset ... the banning's came like a bolt from the blue and it felt like Emma was suddenly pulling rank.
Emma is working full-time, is a Mother and a new wife, she has a court case hanging over her head and due to her computers being grabbed by the Police is now back running this board from a laptop and the software is playing up .. she made it quite clear many months ago that she needed and wanted a break but she didn't get one ... I think that workload would make anyone slightly irrational on occasion!
Clearly there are upsets in addition to all of this between old friends (in Aus) and it saddens me to see it happening but I expect they will eventually be ironed out as these things usually are ... in private.
There is around a week to go before the bans are lifted and I think it would be a really good thing if they could be lifted now.
I know this post will not be popular and I have resisted making it, but Emma knows how I feel about her and she will know that I mean this in the best possible way for her, ESMB and for all who post here.
Our target is OSA and the abuse within scientology, not each other.
I'm not fully up to date with the goings on here over the last few days but I see there is still a lot of upset in the air.
I think it's surprising that we haven't had a lot more drama over the years because there are two very distinct groups that use this board, Ex scientologists and scientologists (Indie's Freezoners etc) ... one group are here to dump scientology and the other to protect the tek, talk about the tek and effectively promote the tek.
Water and oil don't mix, it is amazing that we get along as well as we do.
FWIW I think the banning's were wrong, I saw chat on the night that it got serious and I did see what has been called disrespect shown to Emma ... but I have seen banter like this many times before between Em and these same people and there was no resultant upset ... the banning's came like a bolt from the blue and it felt like Emma was suddenly pulling rank.
Emma is working full-time, is a Mother and a new wife, she has a court case hanging over her head and due to her computers being grabbed by the Police is now back running this board from a laptop and the software is playing up .. she made it quite clear many months ago that she needed and wanted a break but she didn't get one ... I think that workload would make anyone slightly irrational on occasion!
Clearly there are upsets in addition to all of this between old friends (in Aus) and it saddens me to see it happening but I expect they will eventually be ironed out as these things usually are ... in private.
There is around a week to go before the bans are lifted and I think it would be a really good thing if they could be lifted now.
I know this post will not be popular and I have resisted making it, but Emma knows how I feel about her and she will know that I mean this in the best possible way for her, ESMB and for all who post here.
Our target is OSA and the abuse within scientology, not each other.
This, of course, is yet another GLORIOUS victory ... right on the heels of their crushing defeat of Anonymous... (tina)
Gaijin
My difficulty with this possibility is that the conjectured plan is too complicated. If Scientology wants to scapegoat its leader, it doesn't need (apparent) external corroboration from Marty and Mike. They can just "overboard" Miscavige whenever they feel like it. Or they can engineer Miscavige running away with plenty of loot if that suits everyone better.
Pretty much nobody outside of Scientology circles knows or cares anything Scientology's management. What would be the benefit of establishing external credibility to support removing Miscavige from power?