I AM A CHRISTIAN SCIENTOLOGIST

[Gadfly]

First of all, insulting my God or anyone's God(s) are fighting words...thus we have Wars...second... I did not see rules stating "Atheists only need apply" to ESMB. Third, I have been in the "woodwork" for a while longer than you have been here and to me, you are coming out of the "woodwork" with the same tired old pity party junk of "suckered into a brilliant con"... really? It took me 33 years to study the Bible before I bought in...let me guess...you signed up as soon as that "brilliant personality test" stroked your ego and the Div 6 reg commented on what a "powerful being you were? That's pathetic!
...let me introduce myself to you.... XG PS..go to another site? Not a doormat, wipe your dirty feet elsewhere!

"First of all, insulting my God or anyone's God(s) are fighting words . . . "

And THAT is the problem. You and MANY others like you, Scientologists VERY MUCH included, take yourself and your own set of IDEAS way to seriously. You have added all sorts of sloppy significance to and with your "own ideas". See, anyone anywhere can say anything about "my ideas", and I truly don't care or react at all. But, some of you out there - you DO CARE. See the difference? I have no interest in taking the notion that my own ideas somehow represent the truth FOR EVERYBODY ELSE, and thus, I have zero difficulty with any person having entirely different and opposing ideas. Trash my ideas endlessly and intensely - I truly don't care. But people "wotj religious ideas" often do very much care. They get all self-righteous and pour on the indignation, and "oh, how offended I now am".

As if some tiny transistory speck (like you - and me) out of all endless time, all of endless space, out of all infinity is going to AT ALL, on any level, understand "the infinite" (aka "God"). I somehow don't think so.

But you and others like you imagine that you DO somehow understand what this thingie known as "God" is". And, you get an attitude about it.

"Them are fighting words . . . . "

Geez, give me a break. THAT is the problem, that too many of you are happy to FIGHT for your largely senseless, arbitrary and what are actually meaningless and trite ideas and concepts.

 

[xguardian]

"First of all, insulting my God or anyone's God(s) are fighting words . . . "

And THAT is the problem. You and MANY others like you, Scientologists VERY MUCH included, take yourself and your own set of IDEAS way to seriously. You have added all sorts of sloppy significance to and with your "own ideas". See, anyone anywhere can say anything about "my ideas", and I truly don't care or react at all. But, some of you out there - you DO CARE. See the difference? I have no interest in taking the notion that my own ideas somehow represent the truth FOR EVERYBODY ELSE, and thus, I have zero difficulty with any person having entirely different and opposing ideas. Trash my ideas endlessly and intensely - I truly don't care. But people "wotj religious ideas" often do very much care. They get all self-righteous and pour on the indignation, and "oh, how offended I now am".

As if some tiny transistory speck (like you - and me) out of all endless time, all of endless space, out of all infinity is going to AT ALL, on any level, understand "the infinite" (aka "God"). I somehow don't think so.

But you and others like you imagine that you DO somehow understand what this thingie known as "God" is". And, you get an attitude about it.

"Them are fighting words . . . . "

Geez, give me a break. THAT is the problem, that too many of you are happy to FIGHT for your largely senseless, arbitrary and what are actually meaningless and trite ideas and concepts.

I pointed out that "Wars" are started because people attack things others hold "Sacred" because you hold nothing Sacred, (and it's your right) does not give you the right to yell "fire" in the theatre!My point was he (Clarence) was picking a fight!

Once again I will keep saying it...I fought for those rights in the U.S. Army for the Freedom of Religion, and the freedom from it. I found another of his posts that called Christians murderers and terrorists, the same old junk over and over. Because someone claims to be a "whatever" and commits crimes against humanity should not indite the whole.

And it is "serious" when you understand that "blanket" hatred of all Christians is bigotry! Obviously it's OK to bash Christians because of things one group did to another. Hatred is the cause not Christianity, or Islam, or Scientology. But hatred from people!

When Catholics and Protestants kill each other, it's hatred not doctrines setting off the bombs! So yes I get riled up when idiots accuse "everybody/them" for being evil when the same vile is coming out of them.

"You and others like you?" Really? Your a hypocrite by your own confession when you generalize..."you people"...them...you can't stand any other Idea but your own!

 

[xguardian]

Christianity is about love ON PAPER. In actuality it's about mass murder, torture, and agonizing the minds of children by the millions. May I suggest you read the testimonials on Ex-Christian.net.
Scientology is about understanding and freedom ON PAPER. In actuality it's about enslavement of body and soul. And it's understanding often revolves around insane space opera. What kind of granite armor do you wear that these glaring facts can't penetrate to reach you?

May I suggest you read the testimonials from hundreds of millions of ex-atheists who used to spout the same lies and hatred you spout!

 

[Mick Wenlock]

May I suggest you read the testimonials from hundreds of millions of ex-atheists who used to spout the same lies and hatred you spout!

really ? Dox or ....

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Christianity is about love ON PAPER. In actuality it's about mass murder, torture, and agonizing the minds of children by the millions. May I suggest you read the testimonials on Ex-Christian.net.
Scientology is about understanding and freedom ON PAPER. In actuality it's about enslavement of body and soul. And it's understanding often revolves around insane space opera. What kind of granite armor do you wear that these glaring facts can't penetrate to reach you?

Oh come on, now. You're Jewish, aren't you? There are some extremely scathing scriptures in what xtians call the Old Testament (which I realize is named differently in Judaism).

Point is, there always have been people who used religion for their own ends. There are very few religions where this hasn't happened. Maybe Quakers.

Organized religion is an excellent control mechanism. But that doesn't take away from the inherent teachings.

I was brought up Catholic, though I certainly no longer am a Christian in any way, shape or form. Still, though, I see a world of difference between people like Mother Angelica and Mother Theresa and the Grand Inquistors, Puritans, Elmer Gantry types, etc.

There is beauty in Christianity and it's practiced every day. My Mom was a devout Catholic, though not preachy or evangelical. But she always always taught me about God being a God of love. That was her religion.

And it was NOT just on paper. It was the way she lived her life. It's the way milliions of people have.

Similarly, there is great beauty in the practice of Judaism, cruel treatment of the Midianites notwithstanding.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

First of all, insulting my God or anyone's God(s) are fighting words...thus we have Wars...second... I did not see rules stating "Atheists only need apply" to ESMB. Third, I have been in the "woodwork" for a while longer than you have been here and to me, you are coming out of the "woodwork" with the same tired old pity party junk of "suckered into a brilliant con"... really? It took me 33 years to study the Bible before I bought in...let me guess...you signed up as soon as that "brilliant personality test" stroked your ego and the Div 6 reg commented on what a "powerful being you were? That's pathetic!
...let me introduce myself to you.... XG PS..go to another site? Not a doormat, wipe your dirty feet elsewhere!

It's not pathetic to reach out to the dream called Scientology any more than it's pathetic (because it's not pathetic) to be a Christian.

We are ALL just people who reached out to spirituality to try to figure out WTF is going on.

I don't look down on Christians for being Christian, of course. I used to be one. But I also don't look down on anyone who got into Scn. It's all the same thing.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

"First of all, insulting my God or anyone's God(s) are fighting words . . . "

And THAT is the problem. You and MANY others like you, Scientologists VERY MUCH included, take yourself and your own set of IDEAS way to seriously. You have added all sorts of sloppy significance to and with your "own ideas". See, anyone anywhere can say anything about "my ideas", and I truly don't care or react at all. But, some of you out there - you DO CARE. See the difference? I have no interest in taking the notion that my own ideas somehow represent the truth FOR EVERYBODY ELSE, and thus, I have zero difficulty with any person having entirely different and opposing ideas. Trash my ideas endlessly and intensely - I truly don't care. But people "wotj religious ideas" often do very much care. They get all self-righteous and pour on the indignation, and "oh, how offended I now am".

As if some tiny transistory speck (like you - and me) out of all endless time, all of endless space, out of all infinity is going to AT ALL, on any level, understand "the infinite" (aka "God"). I somehow don't think so.

But you and others like you imagine that you DO somehow understand what this thingie known as "God" is". And, you get an attitude about it.

"Them are fighting words . . . . "

Geez, give me a break. THAT is the problem, that too many of you are happy to FIGHT for your largely senseless, arbitrary and what are actually meaningless and trite ideas and concepts.

People can get very solid about this stuff when someone's just denigrated their beliefs. So of course it hit him the wrong way and then talk about fighting words commenced.

 

[Clarence Rockaway]

Nice to see you again Sweetness & Light, not enough light sometimes ...have to R&R elsewhere...plus the new layout keyed in some OCD...lol

Yes, S&L I can duplicate that Yeshua is your rabbi. But what does a parishoner do, when he/she takes a long good look at her rabbi and discovers that he is inferior to her. That's happened to me more than once. Yeshua could take lessons from you on humanity. Words are cheap. The product of your coming to Earth has not resulted in genocide, torture and war. His has.
du zollst fin keyn shlekhts nit visn.
(you shouldn't know from trouble)

 

[xguardian]

It's not pathetic to reach out to the dream called Scientology any more than it's pathetic (because it's not pathetic) to be a Christian.

We are ALL just people who reached out to spirituality to try to figure out WTF is going on.

I don't look down on Christians for being Christian, of course. I used to be one. But I also don't look down on anyone who got into Scn. It's all the same thing.

I meant to say it is pathetic to credit "Brilliant Scam" instead of taking responsibility for joining. I joined because of many reasons I now can see in retrospect. But to say I was scammed? Scam me once ..shame on you...scam me for years? Shame on me!

 

[Voltaire's Child]

an "ack" to XGuardian and a comment about ideological defensiveness

Ah, you're ok with me XGuardian.

Now, as to the defensiveness shown here, seems to me that Christians on this thread aren't the only ones getting defensive about their beliefs.

And besides this thread, on other fronts, I've seen atheists and materialists (not the same thing though now terms are used almost interchangeably) get unbelievably strident, defensive and even nasty.

I've also seen critics and skeptics (of Scn) show a decidedly evangelical bent. Let me give you an example. I posted sporadically/rarely to xenu.net for a couple years but after I was expelled and out for a year or two, just around the time I was moving back home from TN, I started posting regularly. When I did, it was a tad bit of a newbie situation, though I'd been around there a little bit before. Understandable. But thing was, I'd made it quite plain that I was not a CofSer in any way, shape or form. Just someone who left it but still liked Scn. And the incredibly aggressive attempts at conversion and evangelism directed my way were something to behold. People were talking down to me. People were explaining to me that they KNEW I'd not read anything about other religions because if I had, I'd not be interested in Scn. (they were wrong on both counts). I mean, they weren't presenting that as " could this be the case?" No, they KNEW, you see.

This happened a couple other places but not to as much of a marked extent as on that forum.

I don't see ANY difference between people like that and the rabid Elmer Gantry types or the uber superior Homo Novis Scn'ists. In fact, I think the critics/skeptics who act like that are worse cuz they, at least, should know better and they indicate that they do know.

 

[Clarence Rockaway]

It's not pathetic to reach out to the dream called Scientology any more than it's pathetic (because it's not pathetic) to be a Christian.

We are ALL just people who reached out to spirituality to try to figure out WTF is going on.

I don't look down on Christians for being Christian, of course. I used to be one. But I also don't look down on anyone who got into Scn. It's all the same thing.

I'm not an atheist. But typical of moronic Christian thinking, is that anyone who rejects Crust or er Christ, is an atheist. What lies? Christianity's history of evil is an open book. No one who doesn't live in a cave, is ignorant of it. Hate? Because I renounce the eighteen century long evil of Christianity, I'm hateful? My advice to you is, the next time you're passing a butcher shop, go in and buy a brain. Because as of now, you don't have one that works.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

I'm not an atheist. But typical of moronic Christian thinking, is that anyone who rejects Crust or er Christ, is an atheist. What lies? Christianity's history of evil is an open book. No one who doesn't live in a cave, is ignorant of it. Hate? Because I renounce the eighteen century long evil of Christianity, I'm hateful? My advice to you is, the next time you're passing a butcher shop, go in and buy a brain. Because as of now, you don't have one that works.

I don't know that they think that everyone who opposes Xtianity is an atheist. However, I have noticed that most of the people who mock Xtianity (and other religions) tend to be atheists.

Still, as you note, not the best idea to stereotype or generalize.

As to the rest, just keep in mind that when someone feels his or her beliefs are mocked, he or she might get strident. You can see why, right?

 

[Clarence Rockaway]

First of all, insulting my God or anyone's God(s) are fighting words...thus we have Wars...second... I did not see rules stating "Atheists only need apply" to ESMB. Third, I have been in the "woodwork" for a while longer than you have been here and to me, you are coming out of the "woodwork" with the same tired old pity party junk of "suckered into a brilliant con"... really? It took me 33 years to study the Bible before I bought in...let me guess...you signed up as soon as that "brilliant personality test" stroked your ego and the Div 6 reg commented on what a "powerful being you were? That's pathetic!
...let me introduce myself to you.... XG PS..go to another site? Not a doormat, wipe your dirty feet elsewhere!

I've just printed out your post, and am reading it on the toilet where I have it before me. In another minute it will be behind me.

 

[xguardian]

I've just printed out your post, and am reading it on the toilet where I have it before me. In another minute it will be behind me.

Did you move to Arizona for health reasons? The climate there will not help bitterness & hate. Hope you get better

 

[Pip]

I got very excited about your reply

Quote from xguardian
I appreciate your "coming out" and of course you did so with the realization that the "World" will hate you. Nothing worse than a "Christian WOG" ...before an "EX" was ex, anyone not a Scientologist was a WOG...now you are really a threat to ones who blame all religion for the ills of society etc..

There is only one thing worse than a “Christian Wog” and that’s a ChristianScientologist – the ultimate No Win Scenario. (Joke)

As a "born again" Christian, it is my belief that at your conversion, you had an experience which for all intents and purposes is when you became "CLEAR" ...at least a tone scale condition of 4.0 was experienced as you felt all your past overts were nullified and faith that you would no longer be effect to guilt,fear, shame, hate, etc..having the power to be in PT, no longer shackled to those misemotions.

I get your point though at present I see it as OT because I was restored to my right relationship with my Heavenly father. See Psalm 82:6 and John 10:34-36.

This makes you a danger to CoS since "The Baptism of The Holy Ghost" is free!
I might term myself a Born Again Christian who uses Dianetics and LRH's Management Tech, but I cannot reconcile the Cosmology to Biblical Theology.

The reason the Cosmology of Scientology appears not reconcilable with the Bible is because Christians have some very fundamental mis-understandings with what the Bible is saying. Without a metaphysical understanding of Scripture the two cosmologies will remain irreconcilable. I have found Christian Science to be a useful bridge. As a “born again” clear I am a threat to both The Church of Scientology and the Christian Church, since both thrive on power and control.

Either LRH plagiarized much Scientology cosmology from the Bible, or else he may have become a Christian himself if he studied it and could humble himself through repentance when he found the truth of the divine nature the scriptures reveal.

The scariest thing to the ego is surrender.

For example Darwin later converted to Christianity while trying to reconcile his theory of evolution to biblical exegesis..and found hid divine truth. While there is no "statement of faith" in Scientology that you must believe in the sci-fi cosmology, you will be considered "off" believing that SOURCE (GOD) manifested himself in the flesh as Jesus Christ in order to redeem mankind from evil.

That is where Christian Science can be helpful.

The fact that LRH may have been less than favorable towards Christianity lies mostly in the fact he thought he was Buddha. Buddha never claimed to be God, in fact was not even a deist. He was the consummate "Humanistic-Gnostic/Mystic. So to also believe that any Being is more OT than LRH is "Blasphemy" to some. Ff
course that is the atheist's main problem, the thought that they are not 'as like God' fuels their unbelief in one where the universe is then God-centered and not self-centered.

Ron had a basic mis-understanding between soul and spirit. When he discovered past lives he thought he had discovered the Spirit but in fact he had discovered the soul.

A "Christian Scientologist" might find it difficult to actually try to teach a systematic blend of Scientology and Christianity without being a "squirrel." Ironically, as you probably have discerned, if Div 6 and PR, and study tech could be taught to be applied to Christian outreach, discipleship, leadership, and education, it could be a powerful tandem, and vice-verse. Just because LRH is not divine, does not take anything away from his Tech. Whats true is true, what is not is not, and I won't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

A ChristianScientologist is not a blend of Christianity and Scientology. A ChristianScientologist is fully Christian and fully a Scientologist. There is a Pentecostal church in America that uses the study tech. with their parishioners and finds it most helpful.

Dianetics is a more valid science of the mind than "old school" psychiatry. However there has been some excellent discoveries concerning "neuro-pathways in the brain that has opened new potential to treat mental conditions with a whole new science.

Science is always developing hence Scientology must develop with it.

The Bible has always taught positive 'thought conditioning' through affecting behavior modification. Add the belief that God is involved in the equation is absolute science! Call it placebo effect with or without divine intervention according to your own faith.

Hence Paul says, in effect, the law (Scientology) is a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ.

But alas, there is a major chasm between financial philosophies. If Christianity charged for each class and level instead of free will donation, it would go broke. If Scientology made Dianetics a donation based ministry, Psychiatry might actually have to reform to compete...go figure!

A quote I like from “A Course in Miracles” is “Only an unhealed healer charges” but then a workman is worthy of his hire.

 

[Pip]

The great Sophie Tucker once sang/talked some lyrics that went like this:
'If you have a man and you find he's not a true one,
put your plunging neckline on, go out and get yourself a new one'.

Yer right! don't disconnect!!!

 

[Pip]

One 'hatched again' whack-job I can handle. But now they're coming out of the woodwork! This is a site for those of us who got suckered into a brilliant con and then through various ways wised up. But these looney tunes who seriously believe that a carpenter hanging on two boards, is the creator of all that is, need to go to another site. It's called Bellevue!!!

Clarence I read your post and it gave me a new depth to the meaning of 'line charging' and I have just read it again and am still going.

The best I can get out of Bellevue is beautiful view, please explain.

 

[Pip]

Re: Welcome Newbie!

Welcome, Newbie Bridge-it!!! Nice nick, named for a goddess...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigid

I do hope you are blessed with Celtic ancestors!!!

Now, be nice you guys...you know there are lots of Ex COSers that still find using parts of the tech as an independent person helpful or comforting, or useful, or something. We're living under a big tent here and there is room for all.

I will support and encourage anybody who wants to have God (as they know her/him/it to be) in their lives. Especially an Ex COS member who has been through that cult experience.

Well said SweetnessandLight. "To thine own self be true" comes to mind.

 

[Pip]

Not all Christians believe that Jesus is God. Some do. Many consider him to be the son of God, sent to fulfill prophecy, and show us the way to be more divine...as children of a living God ("the kingdom of heaven is within you"). Some of us see him more as our leader, master teacher or wayshower. Can you duplicate this Reuben, that Yeshua is my Rabbi?

I hope I don't get called whack-job next... Maybe I should go play on another thread.

It's nice to see you again Ex Guardian...hope all has been well with you!

I love it. There is nowhere in the Bible where it says Jesus is God and likewise there is nowhere in the Bible where it says he is not God. Who Jesus is can only be decerned by revelation.

 

[Pip]

Christianity is about love ON PAPER. In actuality it's about mass murder, torture, and agonizing the minds of children by the millions. May I suggest you read the testimonials on Ex-Christian.net.
Scientology is about understanding and freedom ON PAPER. In actuality it's about enslavement of body and soul. And it's understanding often revolves around insane space opera. What kind of granite armor do you wear that these glaring facts can't penetrate to reach you?

I don't have any armour other than "The full armour of God". Ephesians 6:10-18