Absolutely valid questions I would appreciate seeing answered also. I've tried this in a similar vein some few times in the past without clearly stated objectives or beliefs being addressed regarding Hublard/$ci/Policies.
I applaud you Hoax for starting this thread but seriously doubt any of the previously posted questions will garner attention, much less answers. People who still believe in the $cio philosophy and tek are still culties at heart and any comparative discussion is beyond them until they have had enough of $cio (Then we have another EX-$cio).
That post uncannily captures the insecurely childish mindset of an indoctrinated Scientologist.
They run about indignantly lecturing others and chanting Hubbard quotes with great certitude. A Scientologist with tech is like a bike with training wheels. Both can furiously bepeddled/pedalled without worry.
Behind the authoritatively rigid mindset (aka 'holding their position') is a rather unsure individual.
Behind the feigned 'knowing how to know' it ain't pretty. Uh-Oh. I feel a rant coming on. LOL
EX SCIENTOLOGIST
So what do you know?
INDIE SCIENTOLOGIST
I know that you are low toned natterer and hater
and source of entheta. And I know what Ron says
that theta should always cut an entheta line.
EX SCIENTOLOGIST
Did you also know that in today's blog, Marty
says Indies should stop calling Ex's natterers
and haters--and start using ARC to handle them?
INDIE SCIENTOLOGIST
I didn't know.
EX SCIENTOLOGIST
Interesting predicament. Ron says to disconnect from
me but Marty has changed his mind and says not
to disconnect from me. So now what does your
knowingness tell you to do?
INDIE SCIENTOLOGIST
My knowingness is to remain dauntless and defiant
while having integrity and insouciance, but keeping
the spirit of play for the greatest good.
EX SCIENTOLOGIST
That sounds like you are are freewheeling bumper
sticker jingles there. Are you okay?
INDIE SCIENTOLOGIST
Well, actually I am a bit shaken by this new
scriptural revelation. I am so used to calling you
a low-toned, hating natterer and gloating
all over you in a condescending way--the same
way I contempuously regard those degraded wogs.
EX SCIENTOLOGIST
It's not so bad talking to Ex-Scientologists then, is it?
INDIE SCIENTOLOGIST
...well no, this is really wonderful! It's so theta!
I love the fact that I can talk to you again Mom!
EX SCIENTOLOGIST
And you will take your mom's phone calls now...
even though I post on ESMB?
INDIE SCIENTOLOGIST
Oh God yes! I always had knowingness that
that disconnection thing was crazy. This totally
indicates. Wow, I just cognited that I should
not have disconnected from you mom, because
Ron canceled the disconnection policy!
EX SCIENTOLOGIST
So really, Marty is just putting in KSW then and
doing what Ron said, right?
INDIE SCIENTOLGIST
Exactly! Wow you are so theta. I love you mom!
This so totally indicates!
EX SCIENTOLOGIST
Dear, today is the 1st of April. It's April Fools day
honey. I was just kidding about all that stuff.
Marty didn't say that today in his blog. He
actually said it's out KSW for an Indie to be in
com with an Ex.
INDIE SCIENTOLOGIST
OMG! That so totally indicates.
EX SCIENTOLOGIST
Again? You just said it totally indicates
the opposite way. How come whatever
Ron or Dave or Marty says to a Scientologist
'totally indicates' to them? Isn't that kind of
a brainwashed, weak cult mentality?
INDIE SCIENTOLOGIST
I don't have to listen to your enthteta. You
are a low-toned natterer and as an Independent
I am now going to exercise my independence
and cut this entheta line.
EX SCIENTOLOGIST
I'd like to indicate that you are going to
disconnect from your mom again.
INDIE SCIENTOLOGIST
I don't need your damn suppressive indications, mom,
I'm an Indie Scientologist--I can think for myself!
This is hard hitting and sad.
Ya know, Independent Scientolgists don't follow many of the destructive policies but they most often (as far as I can see) blame those policies on Miscavige.
So often, there is an inability to recognize source which exactly what LRH was railing against for decades.
1. Do you think that LRH made any mistakes that he hasn't freely admitted? LRH freely admitted that he had entrusted the wrong people at times. Aside from the mistakes that LRH allowed others to commit, how would you characterize the nature of LRH's mistakes?
2. Many auditors have lost their certs over the years. In fact, most seasoned auditors and C/S's have been retrained at some point. Should their pc's be sought out and informed that they may not have attained some of the states they thought?
3. What is your opinion of the repeated revisions that have occurred regarding the most basic parts of Scientology technology. LRH made numerous claims that a certain process worked 100% of the time, e.g. OpProbyDup to fully exterior, full perception, One Shot clear, Book One Dianetics Clears, PTS 10 Aug curing all sickness, Touch Assists. The expected result of those processes have been watered down since the initial release. Have you noticed a repeated pattern of CLAIMS that don't match RESULTS?
Yup.
But I can dream, can't I? LOL
ESMB POSTER
How come virtually every Indie refuses to communicate
to all the upper level OTs who left Scientology
just because they post on the ESMB 'natterboard'?
INDIE SCIENTOLOGIST
......silence......
ESMB POSTER
How come you won't answer any of
my questions about the absence of Clears and OTs
...or about Ron's criminality?
INDIE SCIENTOLOGIST
......silence......
ESMB POSTER
Didn't Ron say that
communication is the universal solvent?
INDIE SCIENTOLOGIST
Hey, Marty was RTC, I think he knows
a lot more about what Ron meant by
that than you do.
He was probably scared silly of dentists.. Like an immature snotty and cowardly little brat, whose mother neglected to teach him personal hygiene.I can't resist
"Why didn't Hubbard use a smidgeon of his outrageous fortune to have his teeth fixed? "
.....while making that a precept of the Way to Happiness.
lotus, I do agree with you in that most harmful acts committed by any humans anywhere are due to their beliefs. But If we attempt to police peoples beliefs we'll end up creating problems even worse than the ones we're trying to solve.
If we are to have a free society I'd say the ultimate solution is to educate people about cults and the methods they use to entrap people and implant crazy beliefs by way of various indoctrination and mind control techniques.
If we educate people than not only will we inoculate people from scientology but thousands of other religious, political, and other cults as well.
HaHaHa, that's a classic, Hoax. I also share that dream of seeing valid questions answered regarding WHY after leaving $cio, a person still generates continuing beliefs of workability. Pssst, hint, $cio is a scam, end of hint.
I don't follow Marty's Fog, err, umm, Blog, censorship is distasteful to me. If you are going to spell out "TRUTH", I see no need to delete questions or conversations unless Marty had something to hide or even more woe begotten, set yourself atop the lonely mountain as some form of $cio Savior Guru (GAG).
I'm asking the Indie crowd, what is your view on KSW? Keep it, throw it away or modify it? How prominent is KSW and is it enforced individually or held as a common group factor?
I would say that it depends on the Indie. It's interesting how this term that I created has almost become synonymous with Marty Rathbun's disciples. Quite a few of them - and other FZers- seem chary of being TOO critical.
But be that as it may, I do know Indies who are aware and speak openly of everything you name here. I don't know that they comprise the majority, though. But there are some.
I always was like that, for example, when I was an indie.
So it depends.
Perhaps Marty, Mike, Tom & Gier didn't give them permission to speak? What we need here is some Scientology tech to make it easier for them:THE SILENCE ABOUT SUCH THINGS IS DEAFENING!!!!!