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Sea Org Children: The Final Solution

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
Thank you. The Barley formula was about #3,876 on the list of shitty things that were done to us.

Yeah but the barley formula still sucked! I ended up with massive amounts of cavities and 3 root canals and caps by the age of 15 from that crap! It messes up da teeth!
 

cadet

Patron
Yeah but the barley formula still sucked! I ended up with massive amounts of cavities and 3 root canals and caps by the age of 15 from that crap! It messes up da teeth!

I always blamed my teeth problems more on the fact that I started smoking once I grew up and joined the SO... at like 10 years old.

Maybe the Barley formula was to blame, we could move it up to like #1,742 on the list of shitty things. :thumbsup:
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
Yeah but the barley formula still sucked! I ended up with massive amounts of cavities and 3 root canals and caps by the age of 15 from that crap! It messes up da teeth!

Yep, it sure mucked up my kids baby teeth! Thankfully their adult teeth were ok.
 

Crashed Alien

Patron with Honors
If they stayed 'in', they're on a pretend bridge to nowhere, and not at all well. It's clear from his writings that Hubbard hated family ties (and, incidentally, women), so no wonder Scientology hurts so many people.

(BTW, birthing ≠ berthing. Your small spelling mistake raised a smile here, though. That's a whole other kettle of clams.)

Freeminds,

Please don't take this the wrong way, I am just making a comment...

I read this a couple of days ago and it has been rattling around my head. I understand that you are pretty upset about certain stuff, however, I must say that MSH was a very fine, warm, charming and caring woman and according to her, LRH loved her deeply...

Of course they would have had marital issues and arguments, as any people do... Well, they were just people...

However, I personally feel that stating that he "hated family ties (and, incidentally women)" is more mouthing off than presenting a viable argument.

Why did you put that? I do not currently believe that he hated women at all, or family ties for that matter. Why do you?

Crash
 

Crashed Alien

Patron with Honors
Hate to break it to you, barley water was in common usage in the nursery during Victorian & Edwardian times. Various recipes can be found for it in domestic household books from the time. The Sherman brothers had the kids in the Disney movie musical of "Mary Poppins" sing about it ("... and never give us barley water!").

I suspect that its usage predates Victoria by several centuries. It's a likely outgrowth of early Celtic culture. But, offhand I don't know of any earlier documented use.

Quite likely LRH mocked up his own recipe. However, he likely based it on an earlier version he knew about.


Mark A. Baker

Mark A. Baker,

You are right... Barley water may have been disgusting to drink, but it does go back.

See http://www.naturalpedia.com/B/Barley-grains.html for a reference... I quote it here.

"Actually, the first known recipe for Barley wine dates back to 2800 b.c.e. in Babylonia. Barley water has also been used for various medicinal purposes since ancient times. The ancient Greeks relied on Barley to make bread, and athletes attributed much of their strength and physical growth to their barley-containing diets. Roman athletes also honored Barley for the strength it gave them. The gladiators were known as hordearii, meaning "eaters of Barley." Since the heads of Barley are heavy and contain numerous seeds, Barley was also honored in ancient China as a symbol of male virility."
- Michael Murray, N.D. and Joseph Pizzorno, N.D., The Encyclopedia of Healing Foods (Get the book)

Just a little fact there...

Crash.
 

Crashed Alien

Patron with Honors
I still say "Breast is Best".... and NO PAUL this isn't an invitation to start another thread on women's virtues :biggrin:

Hi Vumba,

Hope you are well... Just thought I'd drop this link in here as here seems to be some froth and upset about it...

Just to clarify, Barley Water is not some Scientology or Sea-Organisation mishap.

I reckon it should have been made with honey instead of corn syrup, but honey is very expensive comparatively...

Here is an interesting link... for all here to read. http://www.scientologyparent.com/regarding-barley-formula/

I am not pro or against it as I just recall making and drinking it... As a kid! I must admit, it was not nearly as bad as home made cal-mag! Or rather... Cold home made Cal-Mag... retch, double retch just at the thought of it...

Just for the record, I never gave and never will give Barley water or Barley formula to any of my three children...

Breast feed if you can, the colostrum is nature passing on anti-bodies to your child and the mother's breast milk is, after all, designed for her baby - There simply is no food better if it is possible to supply.

If not, use a good baby formula without loads of cr@p in it... As natural as possible.

My girls now drink cow's milk - Just make sure that it is only pasteurised - not homogenised/standardised or UHT...

It is good stuff!

But whatever you give to your baby, give it with love... For each moment is one that will never ever be repeated, so don't throw them away. Cherish them... Enjoy them to the full.

Crash
 
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cadet

Patron
Freeminds,

Please don't take this the wrong way, I am just making a comment...

I read this a couple of days ago and it has been rattling around my head. I understand that you are pretty upset about certain stuff, however, I must say that MSH was a very fine, warm, charming and caring woman and according to her, LRH loved her deeply...

Of course they would have had marital issues and arguments, as any people do... Well, they were just people...

However, I personally feel that stating that he "hated family ties (and, incidentally women)" is more mouthing off than presenting a viable argument.

Why did you put that? I do not currently believe that he hated women at all, or family ties for that matter. Why do you?

Crash

I had to jump in here.

LRH created the Cadet Org and under his direct watch, during his life as "source" I and countless other children were abused, malnourished, mistreated, neglected and abandoned, with his absolute knowledge and at least his tacit consent.

So I feel 100% confident is stating that LRH hated family ties. Fuck LRH and fuck anyone who defends him.

And for the love of all things holy, can you people please stop talking about the barley formula? Is the thread entitled Sea Org Children: The Final Solution or Sea Org Children: The worst thing that ever happened to them was Barley Formula?
 

Veda

Sponsor
-snip-

Of course they would have had marital issues and arguments, as any people do... Well, they were just people...

-snip-

Just people who were co-conspirators in the commission of serious felonies, felonies for which Mary Sue was sent to federal prison, while her husband, the "Source" and "Commodore," ran and hid. Not exactly a typical couple.
 
Freeminds,

Please don't take this the wrong way, I am just making a comment...

I read this a couple of days ago and it has been rattling around my head. I understand that you are pretty upset about certain stuff, however, I must say that MSH was a very fine, warm, charming and caring woman and according to her, LRH loved her deeply...

Of course they would have had marital issues and arguments, as any people do... Well, they were just people...

However, I personally feel that stating that he "hated family ties (and, incidentally women)" is more mouthing off than presenting a viable argument.

Why did you put that? I do not currently believe that he hated women at all, or family ties for that matter. Why do you?

Crash

Hi Crash! To help answer this question, you should look for yourself at all of the evidence that is known about the record of his life, over the span of decades of years of his three marriages and three sets of his own children, and not just listen to the COS PR about Ron's life that you have probably been exposed to for all of your life. This really should be done on a gradient. If you really look at all that is known about the man, you may agree with Free's viewpoint.

Here is a good, and fairly innocuous place to start: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._Ron_Hubbard It's a long read but well worth it. Take your time with it, and compare it to what you were taught or led to believe about the man.

"To this day, Church of Scientology biographies of Hubbard's life do not mention either of his first two wives."

Here are the wikipedia entries on Hubbard's three marriages and families :

1. Margaret Louise Grubb Hubbard: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Grubb

2. Sara Elizabeth Northrup Hubbard: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sara_Northrup_Hollister

3. Mary Sue Whipp Hubbard: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue_Hubbard

Do you know what a "Net Nanny" is? Have you ever heard that term before? The COS had a program that it gave to it's public members and staff to put on their computers, ostensibly to give them web access to COS publications or PR, a pro-Scientology social network of sorts and a free webpage where they put up success stories. I think folks were kind of ordered to comply with this. What people didn't know was that it had a hidden function, to screen out information and data considered "squirrel" or "entheta", based on key word searches. It actually hid or blocked information from the computer users who installed this program on their computers. Which meant that for anyone using this program on their computer, they could not see certain websites or read certain articles which the COS wanted to censor or suppress. Add that to the fact that COS members (especially SO) were not allowed to read or see much outside media and especially no "entheta", it means that many long time members do not know all of the true factual information about Ron and his life.

I'm not going to tell you what you should think, and I believe most other members here feel the same way. But we all want you to look for yourself and make up your own mind about why some of us feel that Ron was brutal to the women and children nearest to him and under his control. Learn the facts for yourself, and make up your own mind. Please don't be afraid to read and do research on your own. You don't have to tell anybody that you are doing so.

Open your eyes and look, don't think! :)

Wishing you all the best!
 
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Axiom142

Gold Meritorious Patron
Mark A. Baker,

You are right... Barley water may have been disgusting to drink, but it does go back.

See http://www.naturalpedia.com/B/Barley-grains.html for a reference... I quote it here.



Just a little fact there...

Crash.

Crash,

One of the first lessons that I learned when I woke up was not to take Hubbard’s advice as gospel. He wasn’t an expert and some of his ramblings were just plain dangerous.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17428115

Infantile scurvy: an old diagnosis revisited with a modern dietary twist.

Burk CJ, Molodow R.

Source

Pediatric Dermatology, University of Miami, Miami, Florida 33125, USA. [email protected]

Abstract

Ascorbic acid (vitamin C) is necessary for the formation of collagen, reducing free radicals, and aiding in iron absorption. Scurvy, a disease of dietary ascorbic acid deficiency, is uncommon today. Indeed, implementation of dietary recommendations largely eradicated infantile scurvy in the US in the early 1900s. We present a case of an otherwise healthy 2-year-old Caucasian girl who presented with refusal to walk secondary to pain in her lower extremities, generalized irritability, sleep disturbance, and malaise. The girl's parents described feeding the patient an organic diet recommended by the Church of Scientology that included a boiled mixture of organic whole milk, barley, and corn syrup devoid of fruits and vegetables. Physical examination revealed pale, bloated skin with edematous, violaceous gums and loosening of a few of her teeth. Dermatologic findings included xerosis, multiple scattered ecchymoses of the extremities, and perifollicular hemorrhage. Laboratory and radiographic evaluation confirmed the diagnosis of scurvy. The patient showed dramatic improvement after only 3 days of treatment with oral ascorbic acid and significant dietary modification. In this case report, we revisit the old diagnosis of scurvy with a modern dietary twist secondary to religious practices. This case highlights the importance of taking a detailed dietary history when evaluating diseases involving the skin.


Or could this just be part of a conspiracy by ‘the medicos’ to discredit the only person in the history of this planet who did anything positive for mankind?



I reckon it should have been made with honey instead of corn syrup, but honey is very expensive comparatively...



You should never give honey to infants.

http://tna.europarchive.org/2011111...s/pressreleases/2010/jun/feedinghoneytobabies


Axiom142
 

Crashed Alien

Patron with Honors
Just people who were co-conspirators in the commission of serious felonies, felonies for which Mary Sue was sent to federal prison, while her husband, the "Source" and "Commodore," ran and hid. Not exactly a typical couple.

Veda,

Indeed, I agree completely, not typical people, but people nonetheless...

Just making the point really as I quite often read things that are being said in a rather glib manner (no inference to you)... Quite often by people who appear to be jumping on the bandwagon and braying about things that they have heard about or "read hard facts" on the internet and quite clearly not what they have seen or experienced... Or what might actually have happened.

There are still some people around who were there, and know what was going on and also knew the context in which it was being done, right or wrong..

I do not condone any illegal action whatsoever and do not and would not encourage such activities, so please do not think I am agreeing with what happened or what was done. If I did, I would not be here.

However, there was a lot more to MSH going to jail than meets the eye... I am sure that you are already aware of that, or at least suspect it. Both from within the Church as well as from outside it.

The "commission of serious felonies" you mentioned that she went to jail for was actually "Conspiracy"... The same charge used against Martin Luther King... The charge that the US Government uses when they feel threatened.

The conspiracy charge in the grand jury charges makes interesting reading... Here is a link http://www.lermanet.com/reference/77Granjurypart1.htm

As you will see, the other "serious felonies" that the other co-conspirators were found guilty of was "Aiding and Abetting Burglary" and "Theft of Government Property"...

Put into context, the Government theft was of some Xerox paper that was used by the "Burglars" to photocopy documents on the premises.

The actual documents were not taken. Nor was anything else...

I suppose what one should really ask is "What would be worth the risk of being caught?"...

Also, why not just ask for the documents.

Well... They were caught and suffered the consequences.

They also served their time which was the required punishment by the US Government.

There are different levels of felonies and different punishments.

None are good... But I feel that context and perspective should really be used when making statements such as "Just people who were co-conspirators in the commission of serious felonies, felonies for which Mary Sue was sent to federal prison".

While it is true technically, it is good to look at both views.

I have... It has been an interesting journey.

No doubt this blog may even have inflamed you, or upset you... That is not the intention. The intention is to give a gentle nudge to step into both party's shoes and have a look from each perspective.

It is hard to do... Not really sure if I always get it right... Pretty sure I don't always get it right...

I am very angry about what happened in the 70's and 80's... Very angry indeed, which is why I decided to try looking at both views... It has helped me understand even though I still cannot agree with what was done.

I hope you are not angry and that you understood me...

Crash
 

Crashed Alien

Patron with Honors
Crash,

One of the first lessons that I learned when I woke up was not to take Hubbard’s advice as gospel. He wasn’t an expert and some of his ramblings were just plain dangerous.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17428115

Infantile scurvy: an old diagnosis revisited with a modern dietary twist.

Burk CJ, Molodow R.

Source

Pediatric Dermatology, University of Miami, Miami, Florida 33125, USA. [email protected]

Abstract

Ascorbic acid (vitamin C) is necessary for the formation of collagen, reducing free radicals, and aiding in iron absorption. Scurvy, a disease of dietary ascorbic acid deficiency, is uncommon today. Indeed, implementation of dietary recommendations largely eradicated infantile scurvy in the US in the early 1900s. We present a case of an otherwise healthy 2-year-old Caucasian girl who presented with refusal to walk secondary to pain in her lower extremities, generalized irritability, sleep disturbance, and malaise. The girl's parents described feeding the patient an organic diet recommended by the Church of Scientology that included a boiled mixture of organic whole milk, barley, and corn syrup devoid of fruits and vegetables. Physical examination revealed pale, bloated skin with edematous, violaceous gums and loosening of a few of her teeth. Dermatologic findings included xerosis, multiple scattered ecchymoses of the extremities, and perifollicular hemorrhage. Laboratory and radiographic evaluation confirmed the diagnosis of scurvy. The patient showed dramatic improvement after only 3 days of treatment with oral ascorbic acid and significant dietary modification. In this case report, we revisit the old diagnosis of scurvy with a modern dietary twist secondary to religious practices. This case highlights the importance of taking a detailed dietary history when evaluating diseases involving the skin.


Or could this just be part of a conspiracy by ‘the medicos’ to discredit the only person in the history of this planet who did anything positive for mankind?




You should never give honey to infants.

http://tna.europarchive.org/2011111...s/pressreleases/2010/jun/feedinghoneytobabies


Axiom142

Axion142,

I know... I meant if it were being made to the old recipe. The Romans used honey (They also added alcohol to make a great drink apparently...)

I know about the FSA stance on honey and I myself would not, and have not taken that chance with my children.

Sorry if I made it sound like I would... Not really intentional, just trying to say that honey is better than corn syrup - I do not recall when babies were supposed to have Barley Water - I thought it was if they were suffering colic... I did not have it that much as it did not agree with me...

Surely this barley water thing has to be some incredibly stupid misunderstanding or "literal" adoption of something said, or something taken out of context - I know that people in the church seem to make an art of that.

I also think it is madness to use it as the only food... I have experience of three of my own children growing up and know a lot about nutrition, health and so forth. I am always careful to ensure that they have loads of fresh food, fruit, vegetables as well as cooked food... and their fair share of sweets of course!

Most honey is now pasteurised... Kills the honey quite a bit, but can reduce the chance of any nasty germs... I still would not chance it with a baby though.

The abstract you gave is an appalling case... I am horrified buy it... It is interesting how people in the Church seem to become zombies with no apparent ability to use common sense or show signs of rational thought or self-determinism... I am pretty much speechless about the poor child...

I would have hoped that this report would induce a social reaction and that the child would be taken into care until such time as the parents were fit to look after her...

Again, sorry for any confusion...

Crash
 

Crashed Alien

Patron with Honors
Hi Crash! To help answer this question, you should look for yourself at all of the evidence that is known about the record of his life, over the span of decades of years of his three marriages and three sets of his own children, and not just listen to the COS PR about Ron's life that you have probably been exposed to for all of your life. This really should be done on a gradient. If you really look at all that is known about the man, you may agree with Free's viewpoint.

Here is a good, and fairly innocuous place to start: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._Ron_Hubbard It's a long read but well worth it. Take your time with it, and compare it to what you were taught or led to believe about the man.

"To this day, Church of Scientology biographies of Hubbard's life do not mention either of his first two wives."

Here are the wikipedia entries on Hubbard's three marriages and families :

1. Margaret Louise Grubb Hubbard: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Grubb

2. Sara Elizabeth Northrup Hubbard: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sara_Northrup_Hollister

3. Mary Sue Whipp Hubbard: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue_Hubbard

Do you know what a "Net Nanny" is? Have you ever heard that term before? The COS had a program that it gave to it's public members and staff to put on their computers, ostensibly to give them web access to COS publications or PR, a pro-Scientology social network of sorts and a free webpage where they put up success stories. I think folks were kind of ordered to comply with this. What people didn't know was that it had a hidden function, to screen out information and data considered "squirrel" or "entheta", based on key word searches. It actually hid or blocked information from the computer users who installed this program on their computers. Which meant that for anyone using this program on their computer, they could not see certain websites or read certain articles which the COS wanted to censor or suppress. Add that to the fact that COS members (especially SO) were not allowed to read or see much outside media and especially no "entheta", it means that many long time members do not know all of the true factual information about Ron and his life.

I'm not going to tell you what you should think, and I believe most other members here feel the same way. But we all want you to look for yourself and make up your own mind about why some of us feel that Ron was brutal to the women and children nearest to him and under his control. Learn the facts for yourself, and make up your own mind. Please don't be afraid to read and do research on your own. You don't have to tell anybody that you are doing so.

Open your eyes and look, don't think! :)

Wishing you all the best!

SweetnessandLight,

Wow! Thank you... I will look at these in detail.

Late now so am going to bed...

Crash
 

Veda

Sponsor
If L. Ron Hubbard and Mary Sue Hubbard had been prosecuted to the fullest extent for all of their crimes, they likely would have spent the rest of their lives in prison. Mary Sue took the rap for her husband and plea bargained. Other cases were settled in civil court. The Hubbard's both got off easy.

Here are some videos that may be helpful:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjzOMbY8kfo&feature=uploademail

Nancy Many talks about Hubbard and Paulette Cooper, starting at 1:30. "[L. Ron] Hubbard hated Paulette Cooper. He hated her and he wanted her destroyed."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wY76WHmRlYA&feature=player_embedded

From the Affidavit of Tanja Burden http://www.lisamcpherson.org/burden.htm:

"At the Fort Harrison I remained LRH's personal messenger. I observed LRH control the operation of Scientology in various 'Orgs' worldwide from the Fort Harrison. I coded and decoded messages to and directly from Hubbard. Hubbard used approximately 15 codes at this time to conceal his operations, programs, and policies, which he disseminated worldwide. I personally delivered messages concerning Operation Snow White, Operation Freak Out, and other Scientology secret and illegal operations. I also filed these in Hubbard's personal filing cabinet..."

Schwimmel Puckel, in a 9 February 2011 post, had these observations:

"I quite sure that Hubbard directed this personally... But I can't prove it. But it was/is well known that even as Mary Sue and Jane Kember held those posts they did, nothing was done without Ron overlooking, approving and/or ordering it.

"I never met the man in person. I was in the Guardian's Office Europe 1979 to mid '81. Well, we had telexes clattering in from 'Ron' all the time. He was very much into anything the GO did, was my impression.. And we carefully cut the corner that said 'Ron' off of the slips before archiving. No document were to expose Ron as a leader or executive authority of anything anywhere."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uF99yYCE8wI

Note: The above short video consists of clips from two '60 Minutes' programs, about fifteen years apart. The first - longer - segment - is from 1980; the latter - shorter - segment, concerning "C.A.N.," is from the mid 1990s.

To complete the series, here's a segment of the mid 1980s '60 Minutes' program with Heber Jentzsch and Earle Cooley:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5Drk3eVQSg&feature=related

This thread is about Sea Org children, and I don't want to derail it any further.
 

Veda

Sponsor
L. Ron Hubbard established the Children's RPF in 1976:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kW8ZqGSkXjI


From Gottabrain, from a prior thread:

"The year this happened was about 1988. Sorry, I can't recall the names anymore. But the Delphi School definitely had a children's RPF and a children's RPF's RPF then. The school had canceled and reinstated the children's RPF (and RPF's RPF) many times over the next few years, according to my friend then who had her son there (she also had friends who had kids there). He was much better after she pulled him out, by the way. It was hard enough on that boy, having a glass eye. I really liked him - he was sweet. His name was Nathaniel something. She and I haven't been in touch since 1990. At the moment I can't remember her name. I'll try.

"It is possible that some of the Scn schools may still have a children's RPF. I am not in touch with any active Scns to verify any of this right now and wouldn't even know how to find out. Maybe someone else here has a suggestion?"


Robert Vaughn Young re. the RPF and RPF's RPF, and re. children RPF'ed on the 'Flagship Apollo': http://www.scientology-lies.com/rvy1.html


Here's the Sec Check for Children, written by L Ron Hubbard.

HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex
HCO BULLETIN OF 21 SEPTEMBER 1961

Franchise
SECURITY CHECK CHILDREN

HCO WW Security Form 8

The following is a processing check for use on children.
Be sure the child can understand the question. Rephrase it so he or she
can understand it. The first question is the most potent.

Children's Security Check

Ages 6 -- 12

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMmnBXcYN9Q
 

cayce-case-um

Patron with Honors
How in the world did CoS get to such a 180 degree opposite from DMSMH which condemns "AA's" -- attempted abortions to the point of requiring them for SO?

Oh, I got it. ATTEMPTED abortions are bad. Actual abortions are okay -- they just add one more engram to some thetan's chains. But wait -- isn't it unethical to give other beings engrams? No, I can pretzel my brain around that too -- if it's good for CoS, it's good for the greatest number of dynamics. Therefore abortions to protect the SO are good.

What a bunch of idiotic crap.

Just on a practical level, other religions at least have the common sense that avoiding abortions increases their membership through inter-generational indoctrination. (Why do we really think Catholics condemn not only abortion but contraception? And how has that stance led to a huge international Catholic church membership?) That reality is not rocket science, but apparently it's beyond the 200+ IQs of the OTs in the SO. Maybe too much auditing actually reduces IQ?

Reincarnated thetans who were aborted by SO order should be granted free lifetime auditing in their next life!
:ohmy:
 

Veda

Sponsor
If Scientology wasn't sexually insane before, it became so, in 1982, when L. Ron Hubbard wrote his 'Pain and Sex' HCOB.

Yet even before this, beneath the children&family-friendly facade, Scientology, under Hubbard's direction, was anti-child and anti-family. Children were tolerated to the extent that they could be used, and that was all. Any man who had a 13 year old girl follow him around with an ashtray into which he flicked his cigarette ashes, or who had small children placed in a chain locker, or who abandoned or disowned his own children, or who threw his wife under the bus, allowing her to go to prison for crimes that he originated and directed, has - shall we say - a "blocked 2nd dynamic."

Here's some background for both the contempt for families and the support of abortion, in the Hubbard-created totalitarian system of Scientology and the Sea Org.

From the 1952 Philadelphia Doctorate Course:

"We mustn't mention this because, God help us, there goes the moral code. Penicillin took out the disease level and now... [a person] can take a couple of beams of energy.... and terminate a pregnancy. Nothing wild or forceful or upsetting or anything like that. Just make sure the tube opens. It's very simple. There are muscles and so forth that contract and expand at a certain period every month, and that sort of thing.

"Pregnancies that have been as much as three months advanced have been terminated that way... Isn't this fascinating? So you've got something like birth control sitting right there in theta clearing... It's just deadly. One, two, three!"


And, from a precept from 'The Way to Happiness' booklet, written, in 1980, as PR cover while Hubbard was in hiding after the exposure, by court order, of his amoral, immoral, and criminal teachings and activities:

On the topic of sex, in 'TWTH', one precept advises against promiscuity, explaining that, "A 'feeling of guilt' is no where near as sharp as ground glass in the soup."

Note that "feeling of guilt" is in quotes.

As early as 1951, Hubbard had spoken dismissively of "conscience." In the lecture, 'Cause on All Dynamics', he said:

"What is conscience? It is simply a negating against your own, not somebody else's, causes. If there is such a thing as conscience, it would be that...

"Now, you want to know anytime in your life when you have felt guilty... you go back earlier and find the postulate that you are guilty of disobeying [and erase the postulate]."


Hubbard expressed the idea of being free of the "impediment" of conscience more simply, during a ('PDC') lecture in 1952:

"Never be the effect of your own cause."


In this video, Mike Goldstein and Jim Dincalci had these observations, including about Hubbard's son Quentin, who was gay: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5263341634543279870&hl=en


"The GE [Genetic Entity] is a family man. The GE is lost without the family. It's very strange but Homo Sap is a family unit. The GE is built on that basis...

"And your thetan, by the way, can much more easily go into a group. Families are not good groups."

From 10 December 1952, PDC lecture series.
 

cayce-case-um

Patron with Honors
The previous poster used the term totalitarian.

I think that is right on.

There are political similarities. I understand that the people of North Korea are taught that the rest of the world is in terrible suffering under the boot heel of capitalism, that NK is the only sane and good place under the beneficence o the beloved leaders.

If they could only see that they are living in one of the most repressive and impoverished areas -- or have a picture of the Korean peninsula from satellite at night. North Korea is dark as a tomb but for a few "show case" areas. South Korea is aglow from stem to stern in contrast.

It seems too painfully similar that people who are "in" think it is horrifying "out here" in the "wog world," and that they have the only hold on solutions or ethics.

In both cases (NK and CoS), the demonization of the rest of the world coupled with suppression (I don't use that word lightly), control, and cut communications with the rest of the world result in gulags -- one focused on a gulag of the soul, the other of the political body.
 
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