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Debbie's Interview

BunnySkull

Silver Meritorious Patron
What you've got to understand about a guy like Miscavige is that he is just another prick bastard sadistic opportunistic SP psychopath who enjoys seeing other people suffer and if possible making other people suffer. It has nothing to do with hubbardism - it would be the same if he was catholic or voodoo practioner.

He was bright enough to see how easy it would be to take over the Cof$, what with him solely sitting on the comm line of the entire church, members and crew, to hubbard. The thug gangster in him awakened date coincident with him carrying the first suitcase full of money to hubbard and realizing how easy would be the pickings and how powerless and hobbled by their beliefs and by the 'I can't believe it' syndrome were the 'sheep' The rest is history.

I think Debbie totally knows this and can play hardball with him and win.

Oh, I understand DM has natural sadistic tendencies and is an asshole, but taking a kid with that disposition and putting him in the SO and then CMO under Hubbard is a very major part of the equation. There are lots of nasty assholes in the world, but there damage is limited to a small circle for the most part. The insane mandates and policies have allowed DM to do what he has, in fact his ruthless, inhuman behavior was REWARDED by Scientology policies - he made it go right, he wasn't reasonable, he got product and that's all that mattered in the cult.

Scientology manifested his worst tendencies and taught other terrible ones. His real world experience is limited, his world is Scientology. The engrained control mechanisms of CoS are custom made for abuse and it was a given the most ruthless would get his hands on them. Better to be a perpetrator than a pathetic victim was the first lesson DM was taught in the SO.

LRH demonstrated it was okay to rage, scream and abuse people to get what you want or just because you felt like it. LRH taught he was never wrong, if stats crashed or errors occurred you must find the who, the SP. DM observed all of this as a messenger. He had been raised to believe LRH was god and to be just like him was a great thing. Therefore DM was taught screaming and abusing people wasn't just acceptable, it was on policy.

DM, born asshole or not, was raised to believe this insane shit is not only acceptable but has a religious conviction that it's the correct behavior. He also believes that crackpot space opera shit - so he actually thinks it's his job to save the universe. The cult teachings do make people bat shit crazy, we see constant examples. It's on fucked up worldview to be totally submersed into and decades of it can probably warp a mind in ways hard to fathom.

The cult and it's tech has been insanely fertile soil for the absolute worst tendencies of DM (& others). Add to fact you've given him absolute power over so many (remember the ancient saying, absolute power corrupts absolutely) lives and total dominion at INT - the results aren't really that surprising, in fact they are pretty predictable.
 

Thrak

Gold Meritorious Patron
Oh, I understand DM has natural sadistic tendencies and is an asshole, but taking a kid with that disposition and putting him in the SO and then CMO under Hubbard is a very major part of the equation. There are lots of nasty assholes in the world, but there damage is limited to a small circle for the most part. The insane mandates and policies have allowed DM to do what he has, in fact his ruthless, inhuman behavior was REWARDED by Scientology policies - he made it go right, he wasn't reasonable, he got product and that's all that mattered in the cult.

Scientology manifested his worst tendencies and taught other terrible ones. His real world experience is limited, his world is Scientology. The engrained control mechanisms of CoS are custom made for abuse and it was a given the most ruthless would get his hands on them. Better to be a perpetrator than a pathetic victim was the first lesson DM was taught in the SO.

LRH demonstrated it was okay to rage, scream and abuse people to get what you want or just because you felt like it. LRH taught he was never wrong, if stats crashed or errors occurred you must find the who, the SP. DM observed all of this as a messenger. He had been raised to believe LRH was god and to be just like him was a great thing. Therefore DM was taught screaming and abusing people wasn't just acceptable, it was on policy.

DM, born asshole or not, was raised to believe this insane shit is not only acceptable but has a religious conviction that it's the correct behavior. He also believes that crackpot space opera shit - so he actually thinks it's his job to save the universe. The cult teachings do make people bat shit crazy, we see constant examples. It's on fucked up worldview to be totally submersed into and decades of it can probably warp a mind in ways hard to fathom.

The cult and it's tech has been insanely fertile soil for the absolute worst tendencies of DM (& others). Add to fact you've given him absolute power over so many (remember the ancient saying, absolute power corrupts absolutely) lives and total dominion at INT - the results aren't really that surprising, in fact they are pretty predictable.

I see what you are saying but anytime I see it implied that Elron made DM, I have to ask well who made Elron? It just doesn't work to blame somebody else. DM deserves everything coming his way. He's just like any mob boss or dictator. The world was lucky this loser only had control over a couple thousand people and not hundreds of thousands or millions.

I'm sure external factors play a part but if you ask me, whatever the cause, the world needs to learn to recognize clowns like Hubbard and DM and stop them before they do any damage. The US govt for one has been way to polite to this asshole.
 

Veda

Sponsor
It depends -- when and where.

At the lower levels (both in terms of tech and the administration), it once was a community of people who shared a lot of opinions... not the least of which was that it was possible to make this a better world. I certainly found that to be the case when I was taking courses and getting services in the 70s.

Once I got on staff and later decided to join the Sea Org, I saw something different. But absolutely: The people with whom I interacted on a daily basis were good and kind to one another. And we felt we were making a difference... both in our own lives and for those around us.

You might think ill of LRH or the tech. That's your call; I don't feel that you must see things as I do. (Which is rather a difference from the CofS right there....) But please do recognize that most people get involved because they do see something valuable in it... and that many of us got benefits from it.

And yes: Most of the people I knew were good and kind. They also could be misinformed, frightened, selfish, and the normal range of human things... some of which put them at an opposition to me at the end. But I understood that even when I knew them to be operating on wrong information and thus making lousy decisions, the "ordinary" scientologist had good goals.

There were lots of good people in Scientology. Good people were (and are) an essential component of Scientology. They're the lubricant that keeps the gears of the machine moving. At the time I didn't realize that the founder of Scientology regarded them as "dupes." And if someone had told me, I wouldn't have believed it.

I don't know "when and where" you were in the 1970s, when you were at "lower levels," but I was at the New York Org which, in 1970, was full of people and busy and expanding. There was much excitement. There were 8 OT levels, with the 8th level being "Total Freedom" and "Total Power." OT 7 (old OT 7) was soon to be released. The "Ls," the "fabulous OT boosters," were soon to appear.

In the Academy, which was packed with students, including myself, people trained on the Student Hat, the Hubbard Standard Dianetics Course, and the Lower Levels, 0-IV.

As did many, I focused on what I was there to do. I kept "my TRs in," as around me there were odd things and occurrences. Most noticeable was the approximately five foot by four foot gold framed photo of Hubbard hanging on the Academy wall. This photo was applauded daily. Then there were the supervisors. The ones who had returned from the mysterious "Flagship" seemed to have an attitude. They were "unreasonable," and "ruthless," which were regarded as dual virtues. They were "closer to Source" than the rest of us, and had a tendency to fly into purple-faced rages. Neither I, nor most of the others, thought much about it. We just kept our TRs in. We wanted to do our training, and then we wanted to audit. Everything else was just noise to be ignored.

I did the training and did the auditing and, years later, after leaving the CofS, did more auditing, and even then, after leaving the CofS, I was still discovering the gory details of that "noise" that I, and others, ignored, so as to be able to make it through the courses we did, and do the auditing we wanted to do.

That "noise" included people who had been strangely transformed after having visited the "Flagship," but also "registrars" who practiced "tone 40 intention" Scientology "Hard Sell." It included the Sea Org, who could be seen here and there at times, and were, supposedly, the "elite of Scientology," and also the "Guardian's Office," who were mysterious but very important, since they dealt mainly with outside anti-Scientology "SPs."

Below is a simple outline of Scientology during the 1970s (with the exception of a line or two which concern things after the 1970s), which I'm borrowing, as it illustrates a point: Most of us had no idea of what we were a part. We were naive. I've colorized in turquoise those things of which we well-intentioned good people focused our attention, as we "moved up the Bridge."

'Brainwashing Manual Parallels in Scientology', a.k.a. 'Revisiting the Textbook on Psycho-politics' http://www.xenu-directory.net/critics/ambry1.html

Contents

Examining the 'Brainwashing Manual' http://warrior.xenu.ca/Brainwashing-front.jpg with the purpose of better understanding Scientology 4

Introduction: A Brief Outline of Scientology Doctrine, Public and Confidential 6

"White Scientology" - The Battle Tactics Doctrine - Brainwashing Manual Tech - Scientology is Multi-layered - Exploiting the Positives: the Cheese in the Trap -

Background 9

Origin of the word "brainwashing." and of the "Russian Brainwashing Manual"
L. Ron Hubbard writing to Scientologists on the subject of the Brainwashing Manual
Departing briefly from the Manual: A look at private tactics later shared with insiders
A publicized statement
A private explanation
Hubbard vs. the "Asiatic Hordes"
Back to the Brainwashing Manual: Excerpts from Hubbard's third public statement on it
Kenneth Goff's 1956 version of the Manual
Scientology's "No-answer answers."

Excerpts from the Brainwashing Manual/Textbook on Psycho-politics 14

"Editorial Note": Hubbard. assuming the guise of the phantasmal "Charles Stickley"
"An Address by Beria": Hubbard, pretending to be Lavrenti Beria, chief of the Russian Secret Police
The Main Text of the Manual: Hubbard, masquerading as an arrogant Russain Brainwashing expert
"Pain-Drug-Hypnosis"

The Layers of The "Scientological Onion" http://exscn.net/content/view/178/105 17

Brainwashing Manual Parallels in Modern Scientology 19

Correspondences between the Brainwashing Manual and the Battle Tactics policy
On “Survival”
On Surviving the Atomic Bomb
On an individual Scientologist influencing leaders
Scientology is devious by design

Front Groups - Layer Zero of the “Scientological Onion” 20

“It is not necessary that the term ‘Communism’ [Scientology] be applied at first…”

Layer One - The publicized portion of Scientology 23

White Scientology
Scenario: (An application of “White Scientology”)
By reason alone
Auditing

Descending into Layer Two of the “Onion”: The “In-Organization” Strata 27

“…[Scientology] under the guise of [‘White Scientology’]…”
Exploitation of the process of abreaction
Playing one thing off another or “counter-playing”
“Loaded language”: the seemingly enlightened “counter-played” with the manipulative
Tone 4, “entheta,” “theta,” Suppressive Person
The Thought Limiting clichés of Scientology
Publicized, “In-organization” and Confidential Scientology “Ethics”
“…aligning the individual against the desire not to conform…”
Side effects of “critical thoughts”
Dominion over the loyalties of individuals

Layer Three of the “Onion”: The Confidential “Upper Levels” of the “Bridge to Total Freedom” 33

“…avoid the understanding of the layman…”
Highest of the “upper levels” must remain a mystery to the membership
Operating Thetan or O.T.
Aleister Crowley, Head of the O.T.O.
O.T. III, The “Wall of Fire” into which Hubbard “took the plunge” to save Mankind
Exploitation of the paranormal

Layer Four: “…a well trained individual who serves in complete obedience…”
The Sea Organization, the Rehabilitation Project Force, and the Five Card System 36


The Sea Organization: “Custodians of the O.T. Levels”
“…the only loyalty which should exist… is to the State [Scientology].”
Sea Org Ethics under Commodore Hubbard on the Flagship
“Refusal to let them sleep over many days…”
The Rehabilitation Project Force
“Filthy food, little sleep, nearly untenable quarters…”
“…the first loyalty [to himself]… is destroyed…”
“Degradation and conquest…”
The children’s and teenagers’ RPF
“A certain amount of fear…”
The RPF’s RPF
The Five Card “Team Share” System
“The technologies of psycho-politics…”

Layer Five: Confidential Scientology Policy and Tech for “handling” uncooperative outsiders 46

The Fair Game policy and “philosophy”
“…find or manufacture enough threat…”
“Direct the attention of the authorities…”
Scientology’s unscrupulous use of the legal system
“We will no longer put up with our religion being criticized…”
Discourage inquiry
Defamatory data on file; “Culling”: Searching “religious confessional” (auditing) files for embarrassing or intimidating items
Background: The Commodore’s Intelligence Network
The policy of covert attack and publicized PR “defense lines”
Scientology’s Multi-layered Public Relations tech
Scientology Intelligence tech
Data collecting, and Attack or “support” Intelligence
Creating incidents that reflect badly on others
“Data needed by Ops on each located who”
Attack or “support” Intelligence - The Covert Ops study course and checklist
“Persons in his vicinity to whom he is emotionally involved…”
Coerce them into signing prepared “retractions” or “confessions”
Plenty of bogus “documentation”
One justification for unscrupulous covert methods
Treatment of VIPs and celebrities
Goal of talking over “mental health” and “political guidance”
Full knowledge of Intelligence tech must be denied to the general membership
“Deception, chicanery, lying, manipulation and outright criminality”
“She over there, those pink legs sticking out, didn’t like me”
Scientologists believe in a planet-wide conspiracy against L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology
The Scientology Hierarchy

Layer Six: The Core of the “Scientological Onion” 69

“…virtually a pathological liar…egotism… lust for power, and vindictiveness…”
“We must be like the vine upon the tree…”
The elusive “1000 page” official L. Ron Hubbard biography
“It’s a trap not being able to prevaricate”
Conscience as an “impediment”
The L. Ron Hubbard Fan(atic) club

Epilogue 74

Freeing the Positives
Addendum 76

"Dr. Hubbard's" FBI letters written concurrent with the appearance of the Brainwashing Manual 77

L. Ron Hubbard assumes the identity of Dr. Hubbard Ph.D DD - Patriotic Concerned Citizen
Letter of 29 July 1955
From a letter dated 7 September

A further look at Scientology's Covert Intelligence Tech 79

"Categories of Data Needing Coding"
A glimpse at a covert operation, and of public strata "policy" used as a cover for applied covert policy
An example of public strata "policy" used as "cover" - this time used on Scientologists by Scientology
"Ops Planning"
What to "Vet" or delete from sensitive internal messages that may be scrutinized by outsiders

Bibliography 82

Notes 87


L. Ron Hubbard, Messiah or Madman?, 2nd edition:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0942637577/ref=sib_dp_pt/102-0654802-4263319


This is what Hubbard created, maintained, lured people into with deception, and enforced. This is why some "might think ill of LRH," etc.
 

Veda

Sponsor
I have another opinion. Was in since 1965 or therabouts.

One hung out at the local COS because it was fun! meeting and
interactiong with others.

So yeah, things changed.

In your case, I believe it. Did you stand around for hours in the lobby?


From 'Keeping Scientology Working', 7 February, 1965:

"We're not playing some minor game in Scientology. It isn't something cute to do for lack of something better.

"The whole agonized future of this planet, every Man, Woman, and Child on it, and your own destiny for the next endless trillions of years depend on what you do here and now with and in Scientology :unsure::ohmy::yes:

"This is a deadly serious activity. And if we miss getting out of the trap now, we may never again have another chance :spacecraft:. [See 'Implantology'] Remember, this is our first chance in all the endless trillions of years of the past . Don't muff it now because it seems unpleasant or unsocial to do Seven [Hammering out of existence incorrect technology], Eight..."


Just prior to the appearance of 'KSW', was published the piece 'My Philosophy', in which L. Ron Hubbard told Scientologists:

"Blinded with injured optic nerves, and lame with physical injuries to the hip and back, at the end of World War II, I faced an almost nonexistent future. My service record stated: 'This officer has no neurotic or psychotic tendencies whatsoever', but also stated, 'permanently disabled physically'.

"And so there came a further blow. I was abandoned by family and friends :violin: as a supposedly hopeless cripple and probable burden on them for the rest of my days."


And, on 7 March 1965, exactly one month after the appearance of 'KSW' was published 'Suppressive Acts, Suppression of Scientology and Scientologists, the Fair Game Law':

"A Suppressive person or group becomes 'fair game'.

"By Fair Game is meant, without rights for self, possessions or position, and no Scientologist may be brought before a Committee of Evidence or punished for any action taken against a Suppressive Person or group...

"Suppressive acts are defined as actions or omissions undertaken to knowingly suppress, reduce, or impede Scientology or Scientologists.

"Such suppressive acts include public disavowal of Scientology... public statements against Scientology.

"[Suppressive acts also include] 1st degree murder, arson, disintegration of persons or belongings not [emphasis added] guilty of suppressive acts.

"[Suppressive Persons] place themselves beyond any consideration for their feelings :nazi:or well being...

"The homes, property, places, and abodes of persons who have been active in attempting to suppress Scientology... are all beyond any protection."


It was also in 1965 when the Australian Anderson Report was published. It discussed a peculiar manual http://warrior.xenu.ca/Brainwashing-front.jpg titled,

Brain-Washing, a synthesis of the Russian textbook on psycho-politics

Psycho-politics - the art and science of asserting and maintaining dominion over the thoughts and loyalties of individuals, officers, bureaus, and masses... through 'mental healing'
.​

...and noted the similarities between the ideas and methods described in the manual and those used by Scientology. This is remarkable, as by 1965, Hubbard had only implemented part of the manual, and it would not be until 1974 that the implementation was complete.
 

GoNuclear

Gold Meritorious Patron
DM is the EP of scientology.

In that case, perhaps I should have stayed with the program. Geez ... what a thought ... running my own billion dollar cult, having my own private chiropractor, cook, and all manner of dedicated servants, total slaves ... human punching bags anytime I need to vent frustration ... wow! But one thing I would definitely do differently ... all those Sea Ogre babes, and all he is shtupping is Laurisse Shtuppingbrook or WTF her name is. I think that if I was in DM's position, able to be corrupted by total power, it would be the endless parade of younger women that would definitely be my interest. After all, WTF is the point of all that money and power if you can't have 5 or 6 new babes per week?

Pete
 

Veda

Sponsor
Maybe 2 out of 3000?

Maybe a few more than that, but it's good that curious lurkers, including those with experience with Scientology, including those who still consider that there is some good in Scientology, have a place to come where Hubbard's Public Opinion Manipulation Tech is not being busily applied, with the use of "the good Scientologist vs the bad (Miscavige) Scientologist" gimmick.
 

BunnySkull

Silver Meritorious Patron
I see what you are saying but anytime I see it implied that Elron made DM, I have to ask well who made Elron? It just doesn't work to blame somebody else. DM deserves everything coming his way. He's just like any mob boss or dictator. The world was lucky this loser only had control over a couple thousand people and not hundreds of thousands or millions.

I'm sure external factors play a part but if you ask me, whatever the cause, the world needs to learn to recognize clowns like Hubbard and DM and stop them before they do any damage. The US govt for one has been way to polite to this asshole.

I think you are confusing root causes with excuses. Saying all this in no way excuses or make DMs behavior acceptable. It's important when you have people who purposely cause great harm to others, ESP on a large scale, to try and figure out exactly why they turned out that way. (In hope it can be prevented in others.) It's ESP important when the cause is a group or organization because it means many sadistic examples could be churned out to do more harm.

There is a big problem with saying DM is an evil asshole and putting no thought into why he turned out that way. This isn't a cult, things aren't black and white, DM didn't emerge from the womb fully formed as a brutal, evil cult leader wack job. If we don't try to understand to root causes of these people & the situations they've created - we are doomed to repeat performances.

I do think it's important to point out that an upbringing in LRH's SO was a major factor in the man we see today. This doesn't make it okay, it's not an excuse, just a fact. We constantly hear absolutely horrible cases of child abuse in the backgrounds of certain serial killers, but rarely does it mitigate or save them from the death penalty or life behind bars. Getting insight into their background does however help society understand how in the world such a cruel monster is created.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
I'm sure external factors play a part but if you ask me, whatever the cause, the world needs to learn to recognize clowns like Hubbard and DM and stop them before they do any damage. The US govt for one has been way to polite to this asshole.

But the US govt is run by even worse clowns. They will only take action against a tiny clown when it becomes necessary, for PR reasons, to do so. Who gives a fuck about a few thousand cult weirdos suffering when there are whole nations that can be made to suffer with billions in profit to be made at the same time?

Paul
 

Boojuum

Silver Meritorious Patron
The Flicker of Light in Debbie's Eye

Did anyone notice the light in Debbie's eyes as she spoke about the lawyer and what protection she had under law? It was like she had a realization that wog law isn't necessarily all bad.


Hmmmm.
 

AngeloV

Gold Meritorious Patron
Videos of Debbie's interview now up at the Village Voice:

(apologies if it's been posted before)

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2012/02/debbie_cook_scientology_interview.php#more

Thanks for posting the links. I watched all of the vids but the last one is the most revealing. Revealing in the sense of laying bare the extreme cognitive dissidence in Debbie's mind. She absolutely believes that disconnection was cancelled in the late 1960's and states it emphatically. And that it was brought back by DM. A perfect example of brainwashing if there ever was one.
 

Vittorio

Patron Meritorious
I have another opinion. Was in since 1965 or therabouts.

One hung out at the local COS because it was fun! meeting and
interactiong with others.

So yeah, things changed.

Considering that you claim to be a 'natural clear' and have no real auditor training or experience other than solo and you did your OT levels in the Freezone (some twice), what on earth have you done between 1965 and 2012? Thats 47 years! You claim to be a trained ethics specialist and claim to have gone to flag to do some training including some OEC training.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Thanks for posting the links. I watched all of the vids but the last one is the most revealing. Revealing in the sense of laying bare the extreme cognitive dissidence in Debbie's mind. She absolutely believes that disconnection was cancelled in the late 1960's and states it emphatically. And that it was brought back by DM. A perfect example of brainwashing if there ever was one.

:thumbsup:

It is vital in understanding how Scientology operates to grasp that Church management and OSA constantly lie to (aka "PR") their own staff, even their own senior executives. Most staff are kept in the dark and lied to as a matter of routine. Scientology PR (misrepresentation, lies, deceit) keeps the delusion alive.

Debbie IS a card-carrying over-indoctrinated looney Scientology true believer.

That is good if it means that she will continue to fight DM, who will continue to fight back as "legitimate organized Scientology", and that all of this endless fighting between "corporate Scn" and "independent Scn" results in many more defections and the continued collapse of the C of S.

When the Church corporate organization is nothing but a long lost memory, I couldn't care any less whether isolated "indies" (credit to Fluffy) get together to talk and play with some of Hubbard's ideas. With DM long gone into some South American country enjoying life on some 10,000 acres in the middle of a rain forest (like what various Nazi criminals did to get away from prosecution after WWII).

A great scenario would be that DM gets really scared, and does RUN - with ALL of the money! Then the C of S is left with NOTHING. DM runs and the whole thing collapses. :thumbsup:

God help us if Debbie, or any of the M & M brigade manages to "assume control", because while they will present a facade of a "kinder and gentler" Scientology, it will be the same old shit under a new PR image. It would simply be a superficial "facelift", with nothing of any substance changing - since they will keep and follow the SAME exact stupid LRH organizational policies on "clearing the planet" and "expanding Scientology". Remember, these people really ARE crazy. :ohmy: :yes:

They would simply stop any physical violence at the top levels, and then continue along happily with Hard Sell, ruin-finding, crush-regging, "clearing the planet", removing counter-intention of any form, attacking critics, overwhelming lawsuits, SP declares, disconnection, and on and on (based on LRH's exact directions in these matters). And, the TOP DOGS at management would continue to deceive and manipulate the rest of the Scientology staff and public, just as they have since the beginning.
 

olska

Silver Meritorious Patron
After watching the VV videos, judging by his body language as well as the things he said in the interview, I think Debbie's lawyer is baffled beyond belief by his client's reticence -- he's had to coax her to talk about what happened to her, to draw her out.

Because it would have reflected badly on scientology, she would never have told about these horrors had she not been sued, brought to court to testify, and thus been coaxed by her attorney to reveal what she had experienced.

Here she is, after all that she endured, still extolling the virtues of scientology and Hubbard! concerned that her religion is going to be thought badly of!

The depth of abuse that individuals will endure in order to protect the "good name" of scientology is astounding; and I think her lawyer also finds it astounding. From her body language, as well as what she actually says, I think she thinks this kind of "dedication" is the height of nobility and honor.

The rest of us (possibly including her attorney) just find it crazy.

When asked when she would have walked away from it if she had not been confined by security, she says the day after she was put in the Hole...

...which means she would have willingly continued through such things as the extreme schedule where she could eat only every other day, sleep only every other day.

A "normal" person would have walked away from that madness long, long before!

It's as though she (and no doubt sooooo many others) have been implanted with a kamikaze mentality. Brainwashing on display in all its glory.

I'm gobsmacked. Words fail.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Thanks for posting the links. I watched all of the vids but the last one is the most revealing. Revealing in the sense of laying bare the extreme cognitive dissidence in Debbie's mind. She absolutely believes that disconnection was cancelled in the late 1960's and states it emphatically. And that it was brought back by DM. A perfect example of brainwashing if there ever was one.


http://leavingscientology.wordpress.com/2009/10/28/church-of-scientology-cancels-disconnection/

Disconnection was reinstated by HCO Bulletin of 10 September 1983, “PTSness and Disconnection.” The Bulletin noted that “Earlier, disconnection as a condition was cancelled,” and stated it was “hereby restored to use, in the hands of those persons thoroughly and standardly trained in PTS/SP tech.”

The only problem? It wasn’t written by LRH. According to a statement by the late Robert Vaughn Young, “…The directive that I wrote concerned the Scientology policy of ‘Disconnection.’ The order to do this came from David Miscavige. Miscavige said that we had to reinstitute the Policy of Disconnection and that I was to write the policy for this. I wrote it and it went through several revisions. It was not sent to Hubbard for his approval, but was issued into the Church of Scientology.”
 

Gadfly

Crusader
After watching the VV videos, judging by his body language as well as the things he said in the interview, I think Debbie's lawyer is baffled beyond belief by his client's reticence -- he's had to coax her to talk about what happened to her, to draw her out.

Because it would have reflected badly on scientology, she would never have told about these horrors had she not been sued, brought to court to testify, and thus been coaxed by her attorney to reveal what she had experienced.

Here she is, after all that she endured, still extolling the virtues of scientology and Hubbard! concerned that her religion is going to be thought badly of!

The depth of abuse that individuals will endure in order to protect the "good name" of scientology is astounding; and I think her lawyer also finds it astounding. From her body language, as well as what she actually says, I think she thinks this kind of "dedication" is the height of nobility and honor.

The rest of us (possibly including her attorney) just find it crazy.

When asked when she would have walked away from it if she had not been confined by security, she says the day after she was put in the Hole...

...which means she would have willingly continued through such things as the extreme schedule where she could eat only every other day, sleep only every other day.

A "normal" person would have walked away from that madness long, long before!

It's as though she (and no doubt sooooo many others) have been implanted with a kamikaze mentality. Brainwashing on display in all its glory.

I'm gobsmacked. Words fail.

:thumbsup:

I can supply the words. This sort of thing is all too common from my perspective of people and their behavior. Sadly, it is all too common. :ohmy:

People create THEIR OWN mental prisons. Everybody does this to some degree, but it really matters and becomes apparent in severe situations like "true believers" who allow their IDEAS (ideals, theories, ideology, etc.) to supercede all observation and decision-making.

These sorts of people accept some set of ideas as true (just as Hubbard describes with "agreement" and "fixed ideas"), they consider these ideas to be SENIOR to everything else, and at that point they cease having any reason to or concern to look, observe, gain more information, arrive at facts or "verify what they believe". It is simply a case of "mind over matter" - but I don't mean this in any "positive sense".

The fantasy, the delusion, the belief system, the ideology is KING. It is the "stable datum" around which all else revolves. For people like this, such as the common over-indoctrinated Scientologist, they first REFUSE to look at anything that might interrupt the fantasy/delusion, and second, anything they perceive or experience that does possibly present a contradiction is assimilated/re-interpreted in some altered and distorted manner so that the fantasy/delusion is maintained and kept intact.

Debbie's IDEAS take precedence over any perceptions and experiences of reality. Thus, it is truly "mind over matter". Delusion over facts. Fantasy over actual observable events in space and time. Scientologists are taught to be vague/abstract thinkers. Their worldviews are entirely immersed and wrapped up in extensive "ideas" (thinkingness). And, such people often eradicate and/or suppress many ACTUAL observations and experiences from their minds so that the "belief system" remains fully functional.

Mantaining such delusions require amazing feats of mental gymnastics, leaps of logic, unwillingness to view what is right in front of you, and a DEEP UNWAVERING FAITH in the dogma of the religion, political party or even some aspect of "science". The mechanics of "cognitive dissonance" definitely are involved with the psychology of such people.
 
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