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Could the Co$ survive with a Third Leader

freethinker

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Debbie Cook was interviewed after the TRO trial. She was asked in the interview if she thought the Church could be salvaged after all this.

I don't think that someone can slip into the position of Church leader and pull it off for a 3rd time after all that has been revealed.

What are your thoughts?
 

Man de la Mancha

Patron with Honors
Debbie Cook was interviewed after the TRO trial. She was asked in the interview if she thought the Church could be salvaged after all this.

I don't think that someone can slip into the position of Church leader and pull it off for a 3rd time after all that has been revealed.

What are your thoughts?

The church should never have another "ecclesiastic leader". That would be L. Ron Hubbard and, like Jesus, he is no longer with us. That's why there's a bust in every org, and a crucifix in every church. End of story.

Assuming there is another regime, it should simply revert to the corporate triumvirate set up by LRH. If that had remained in place there would be no dictatorship.

And yes, I do believe Scn can rebound from all this and wind up in even better shape than previously. It's so close to happening, but noone has the balls to defy RPF, child neglect, and disconnection policy. It's really their own fault - LRH never asked to be worshipped (although he never complained when he was!).

LRH's "Purpose Over Policy" PL authorizes the elimination of RPF, child neglect, and disconnection. Noone will do it. Why?
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
I don't think that someone can slip into the position of Church leader and pull it off for a 3rd time after all that has been revealed.

It would be difficult but IS possible imo if done correctly.

They don't have to convince everyone, and even if there's a mass exodus they've got a billion+ dollars stashed away which can help to recruit some new suckers with which to rebuild.

In the age of the internet with all the info out there it will be more expensive to do this but they are masters of deception and when fanatics are determined to do something along these lines it is possible, if not likely.
 

Thrak

Gold Meritorious Patron
I think something to remember is that according to Cook, they have a billion in reserves and are basically living on the interest. If that's true and they don't get their assets frozen, and Davey doesn't scuttle the ship on his departure, they can do what they want and survive wether new public comes in or not.

I'm really hoping some more "OTs" start popping up and telling what's happening behind closed doors.
 

Jquepublic

Silver Meritorious Patron
Debbie Cook was interviewed after the TRO trial. She was asked in the interview if she thought the Church could be salvaged after all this.

I don't think that someone can slip into the position of Church leader and pull it off for a 3rd time after all that has been revealed.

What are your thoughts?

Ultimately I think not, but I can see an interim "resurgence" in their existing members should someone else take over leadership. I think they'll do a pendulum swing in the way they operate for a while, but ultimately the teeth and claws of the Scientology beast have been yanked.

It'll depend on the degree of personal interpretation of the "scriptures" and on the willingness to disregard certain policies in favor of others. No Scientologist can do that and hold true to KSW #1 IMO.
 

Caliwog

Patron Meritorious
I think the whole Debbie Cook trial is giving credence to the idea that the problem with Scientology is the current regime. (I find myself feeling sympathetic for Debbie Cook, despite knowing better.) Regardless, Scientology's overall situation will never change.

I think it's unlikely that the Church will emerge with a third leader. Unless DM decides to off himself - which I suppose isn't beyond the realm of possibility - he is unlikely to give up control of the Church for the greatest good (which is off-policy). That said, with all its assets, I don't see how the Church could possibly go out of business. Although the focus on DM could have one positive effect: Investigation leading to elimination of the Church's tax-exempt status.

I suppose it's possible that a re-formed Church will arise with Marty Rathbun or someone similar at its head.

Regardless, Scientology will end up back in the news, because the abuses are hard-coded into the tech. We seem to forget that there were no "good old days" of Scientology. Read The Scandal of Scientology (http://www.xenu.net/archive/books/tsos/sos.html) or listen to David Mayo's lectures (http://www.freezoneearth.org/downloads/files.html - scroll down) for a reminder that everything happening now, has happened before.

Scientology is a scam, and no amount of PR can change that.
 

anonomog

Gold Meritorious Patron
"...because the abuses are hard-coded into the tech."

That ^^^

Despite the fact that it is a laughing stock, there will be some new people willing to give it a go. It could survive and start again...I just see it following the exact same formula straight to hell again.
 

Freeminds

Bitter defrocked apostate
Co$ with a Third Leader?

Apologies for the repeat, and to fans of 'The Human Centipede' but it seems apposite...
scientologyhumancentipede.jpg
 

Man de la Mancha

Patron with Honors
I would like to be the new leader of Scientology. I will be a very good boss. Orgs and staff will prosper and morale will be high. Can anyone tell me who I should contact about this?
 

Gadfly

Crusader
I will be the new leader. I will shut it down immediately, liquidate ALL assets, and distribute the cash fairly among all staff and public (and people who have been wronged by the cult).
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
I will be the new leader. I will shut it down immediately, liquidate ALL assets, and distribute the cash fairly among all staff and public (and people who have been wronged by the cult).

Great.

The COS new leader is an ostrich.

Guess they'll be a hell of a tailoring job on those Class As. :p
 

Man de la Mancha

Patron with Honors
I will be the new leader. I will shut it down immediately, liquidate ALL assets, and distribute the cash fairly among all staff and public (and people who have been wronged by the cult).

Forget about it Gadfly. I've already declared you, pardoned you, and re-declared you.
 

Petey C

Silver Meritorious Patron
I think the whole Debbie Cook trial is giving credence to the idea that the problem with Scientology is the current regime. (I find myself feeling sympathetic for Debbie Cook, despite knowing better.) Regardless, Scientology's overall situation will never change.

I think it's unlikely that the Church will emerge with a third leader. Unless DM decides to off himself - which I suppose isn't beyond the realm of possibility - he is unlikely to give up control of the Church for the greatest good (which is off-policy). That said, with all its assets, I don't see how the Church could possibly go out of business. Although the focus on DM could have one positive effect: Investigation leading to elimination of the Church's tax-exempt status.

I suppose it's possible that a re-formed Church will arise with Marty Rathbun or someone similar at its head.

Regardless, Scientology will end up back in the news, because the abuses are hard-coded into the tech. We seem to forget that there were no "good old days" of Scientology. Read The Scandal of Scientology (http://www.xenu.net/archive/books/tsos/sos.html) or listen to David Mayo's lectures (http://www.freezoneearth.org/downloads/files.html - scroll down) for a reminder that everything happening now, has happened before.

Scientology is a scam, and no amount of PR can change that.

I pretty much agree with everything here.

The seeds of Scientology's current chaos lie within Hubbard's writings and as long as there are church CEOs who believe Hubbard is Truth, it'll come to the same state in the end.

So what would a new CoS look like? Would it have an SO? And RPF? What would they pay their staff? If they had to pay a fair wage, they would be going broke quicker than you can say knife. Their business model is not sustainable for the 21st century. And to change the business model would mean saying Hubbard was wrong about a thing or two.

I admire and respect Debbie's steadfastness and courage, no doubt about it, and her strategy was brilliant. I see the email as a dare to the church to put her in court, and once she was there, she could say her piece under oath. But her blind spot is her apparent unswerving faithfulness to Hubbard. Hubbard is what will bring the CoS unstuck, in the end. As Calliwog says, the hardass attitude is hardcoded into Scn.

Seems to me that it's about views of integrity. For a Scio, integrity means taking the whole of Hubbard's writings and actualising them. But Hubbard's writings lack integrity as they largely based on hyperbole, lies and fantasy.

Ultimately I think some form of church will stumble along with a committee or two and a head or two, but there will be a lot of pressure to act legally from staff, SO, public scios and we apostates, as well as the world at large which I'm sure has enjoyed seeing this hubris. It might take them a decade or two to spend all their assets down, then what?
 

asteroid

Patron with Honors
Debbie Cook was interviewed after the TRO trial. She was asked in the interview if she thought the Church could be salvaged after all this.

I don't think that someone can slip into the position of Church leader and pull it off for a 3rd time after all that has been revealed.

What are your thoughts?

I think it could happen. The likeliness of it happening is uncertain, because it would depend on what it took to remove DM from power. And obviously it depends upon who would take over as a new leader -- and his or her reputation among the membership.

There's plenty of historical precedent for this, not the least of which is what happened to the Christian Science Church after the death of Mary Baker Eddy. (And, as with the freezone, many people felt that the Committee who took over were not doing what she intended, and went elsewhere.) Something like 100 years after her death, the Christian Science Church is still around.

For a non-spiritual example, look at the number of leaders that Apple Computer had. Under Sculley's and Amelio's tenure, even the most ardent Apple fan felt betrayed; the things they loved about the company and its products had been lost. The company almost went out of business. A new leader who most people believed in turned the whole company around. He made hard choices, upset a lot of people, but ultimately brought the company back to profitability, got all the old customers back, and earned new ones by expanding the company's business.

And then there are plenty of examples of a big business bringing in new leadership that makes no real change... and those organizations generally die. People who can turn around a failing company (this time in membership, not dollars) are very rare.

What you personally think of the scn tech, Steve Jobs, or Apple equipment is irrelevant here. The question you raise -- and it's a good one -- is what effect new leadership would have on current members and the somewhat disaffected.

Undoubtedly there are people who do believe that all the problems with the CoS rest at DM's feet, and that if we went back to some mystical time when everything was perfect (and "Standard Tech"), scientologists could get back to the real business of clearing the planet. (Again, we aren't talking about what _you_ believe but their perceptions. And I shall avoid the obvious tangent about which particular standard tech someone likes from which particular time.)

For those people, still "in" or "left but with regrets and If Onlys," a new leader could indeed give them hope that things were going to be all right again. And it's interesting to contemplate what changes any new leader would feel comfortable with, given that the "corporate culture" (the one that would make a candidate acceptable) does not encourage thinking outside policy. How much would he or she be willing to dump -- and would the individual stay in power if he dumped anything?

Who that leader is would matter a lot, though. Some would rush back if Marty took over; some would run away if he did. I don't feel qualified to judge whom members would find trustworthy, since I'm long out of touch. Though at a guess I think Debbie Cook just earned admiration both inside and outside the organization and her name would come up in serious discussions.

It'd be one heck of a political wrestling match... especially since, as far as I know, there's no written policy on what the succession plan ought to be. (LRH, in his sometimes-brilliance sometimes-idiocy, may have had one written, but obviously DM would have burned it as part of the palace coup when he took over.)

Speaking for myself, as a quiet member of the Freezone: There are extremely few people who I could trust. And the ones I most respect probably wouldn't want the job, because they are concerned with the tech and being a CEO. So I'm not sure whether a change in leadership would bring back any of us who learned to distrust the organization... especially since many of us dumped most of the Green Vols even when we hung onto the Red Vols.
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
Welcome Marsupial, Linkedin is OK but I believe in the direct approach, I suggest anyone wanting the job should contact Snr HCO directly, and as many as possible.

I think the next one should be someone totally untainted and saintly. However I don't know anyone like that.

The only possible one I can think of would be Heber, Guillaume is also pretty well thought of.

Maybe someone should offer the job to someone already with a religious background, a Pope or at least Bishop, an Imam perhaps or reincarnated child Lama. This would give the cult leader some religious standing, and make it look more believable.
 
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