Debbie Cook's Trial

[Feral]

Mick Wenlock says; But, Feral, that already exists. There is nothing at all to stop people reading Hubbard's stuff (well except for how fucking idiotic it is...) and discussing it, nothing at all to stop them auditing themselves or others.

Very true. But it's beyond badly organised and I imagine these Int base exes believe they can do a proper job of it.

If M&M say they are aiming for that then they are being extremely economical with the truth.

Perhaps. I understand that "truth" is a variable commodity among Scientologists especially given the doctrine of "acceptable truth".

Seriously mate - take a look at what you wrote. If that's what they wish to achieve they could do it tomorrow. What is stopping them? They could have their little club, they could "open source" away and sing kumbayah.

From what I've seen they are working on it. Several of them are now on OT levels that they feel they were denied by DM. Remember, they don't just want it for themselves, they want to clear the whole planet.

But they ain't. They want to 'handle' Miscavige and the CofS - that's a different kettle of fish altogether and you have to then ask the question - cui bono? And what is the "bono" they wish to get?

They do seem to have an axe to grind, I know that's not what you meant but it seems to be the scene to me at face value. I'm all for it, DM made my life a living hell and I was only a particle on his "service" lines. Let them put in their justice on the twerp, personally I can't think of a hell hot enough for him and if it came to it I'd just as soon see him hung from a gum tree by his ankles with his hair just touching the top of a meat ants nest and watch him trying to take the pressure off his ankles with his hands stirring up those hungry ants. But I don't think justice works that way. But a sense of justice motivates me, why not them?

Debbie may still want to save the church, per her actual comments. M&M have publicly stated otherwise. I think these are stages of leaving that they're at different points on that road.

I could be wrong in my attitude but it's an Australian trait to "give a bloke a fair go". Marty for all his failings has not disappointed me in his ability to cause DM trouble. His results have been worth the price of my admission, which was a bit of optimistic and naive hope.

 

[Lulu Belle]

Loved this comment on WWP:

https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/debbie-cooks-tro-hearing-update-thread.99943/page-5

Anonymous said: ↑

...The extreme falsity of Cook’s statements is evident from the simple fact that, incredibly, in three hours of testimony she did not have a positive statement to make about anyone she ever encountered in her decades long Scientology career...​

... and I guess the fact that the CofS does not have a single positive statement to make about Debbie Cook in her decades long scientology career is evidence of the extreme falsity of the cult.​

CarterUSP, Yesterday at 10:20 AM
#181

 

[Feral]

By the way, I'm serious as a heart attack about this.

I have absolutely no doubt that this will happen, if it isn't happening already.

Debbie said she got "1,000 emails" of support, and said that many of them were from people who disconnected from her openly but emailed her secretly that they agreed with her.

Debbie's "public" are the Flag high rollers. When it comes right down to it, there really aren't that many of these kind of people, and 1,000 emails is a lot of emails. DM must be flipping out. He's paranoid anyway. In this case, his paranoia is almost justified.

Ordering all public to go to an org has happened at least twice before that I can remember. Once was when the finance police ordered all onlines public to Flag to do the KSW course (1984 maybe? Ironic it's that year). Once was when all the OT VIIIs were ordered back onto the ship for something. I think it was in the year or two after OT VIII was released. Don't remember what, but I think it involved sec checking (of course).

I would be really, really surprised if this doesn't happen. Which will be another huge nail in the coffin of management's relationship with this totally overregged and overrun public.

Interesting times.

The irony of that is very few who gave Debbie any sign of private encouragement will allow themselves to be audited for fear of retribution, so those poor bastards that get grilled will be necessarily estranged.

 

[Smurf]

I just watched Debbie's after trial interview and I have to cry "foul" to some of the things she said. Again, she's parroting this LRH=Good and DM=Bad formula. What a disservice to someone like Paulette Cooper who went through even more hell in the 70s than Debbie did. And all of that hell was directed by LRH himself.

Debbie's still drunk on the kool aid, and is determined to pretend that all of the documented crimes & abuse in Scientology over the last 40 years, are all one miserable midget's fault, that without Miscavige, everything in Scientology would be rosy, credible & transparent.

Debbie refuses to be accountable for her own crimes, and unethical behavior, for the 25+ years she spent in Scientology. There are many victims of her direct abuse toward them, that have not forgiven her. Maria Pia Gardini, who was, personally, pressured by Debbie Cook to donate $1 million to the cult, remains unforgiving of her. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Pia_Gardini.

In the Tampa Trib video, she says she wishes Scientology's walls were made of glass, that there was absolute transparency to the means which the cult makes it's money. There is documented evidence how the cult makes it's money and it's not admirable.

Let's remember that Scientology was on the FBI's radar BEFORE Miscavige took power. LRH was an unethical sociopath, who moved from house to house, to evade what he perceived was the FBI wanting to arrest him. Does this sound like someone who believed in honesty & transparency?

Operation Snow White was a creation of LRH, not DM. I wonder how Debbie would explain that?

 

[Smurf]

The bending back of Debbie's finger, or the ordered bending of her finger, to me, that needs a lot of repeating. And the floor licking as punishment, also needs repeating.

People in the real world, outside Scientology, would question why an individual would allow themselves to be abused like that? Why did Debbie allow a woman to slap her? Why'd she allow her finger to be pushed back? Why didn't she stand up to DM and say "No"?

Marty has claimed that DM would never assault him "because he knew better". But, Marty beat up on others because DM told him to.

Marc Headley wrote in his book that DM assaulted him, and Mark raised his fist in response, and DM freaked out at the idea that Mark would hit him back.

A cycle of violence has long permeated in the Church of Scientology, and it hasn't just been DM doing the punching. What people outside the cult, and the media have a hard time understanding is why Scilons didn't stand up to the abuse? People have a hard time sympathizing with others who relent to being human punching bags.

 

[Lone Star]

And let's not forget about Lisa McPherson. Debbie was certainly the Captain of the FSO when Lisa died a most horrible and humiliating death. (Of course Debbie's current fundraiser Marty Wrathbun played a role in the cover-up).

I'm sorry that Debbie was put in the "Hole". I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. However, to use Scilon lingo, perhaps she "pulled it in".

Or perhaps Debbie had nothing to do with the McPherson situation at all. I don't know. Hopefully someone here does know and can illuminate us.

 

[Gadfly]

People in the real world, outside Scientology, would question why an individual would allow themselves to be abused like that? Why did Debbie allow a woman to slap her? Why'd she allow her finger to be pushed back? Why didn't she stand up to DM and say "No"?

Marty has claimed that DM would never assault him "because he knew better". But, Marty beat up on others because DM told him to.

Marc Headley wrote in his book that DM assaulted him, and Mark raised his fist in response, and DM freaked out at the idea that Mark would hit him back.

A cycle of violence has long permeated in the Church of Scientology, and it hasn't just been DM doing the punching. What people outside the cult, and the media have a hard time understanding is why Scilons didn't stand up to the abuse? People have a hard time sympathizing with others who relent to being human punching bags.

Yeah, I say the same thing over and over. You DO have a choice whether to be a doormat. That is why I LEFT the Sea Org after a few years. I wouldn't allow myself to remain in such an absurd oppressive environment. But also, I was able to see through some of the "true believer" nonsense even as a member. I was NEVER 100%!

One has to "agree to be there" and "agree with the oppression". Nobody is holding a gun to your head. The main culprit is the "victim's" own agreements with Hubbard's nutty paradigm.

For example, NOBODY could EVER "hard sell reg" you unless you AGREED WITH and BOUGHT INTO all of the extensive nonsense about the basic Scientology beliefs. Disagree with these following considerations and there is little ANY of them can "do to you" as staff or public. Simply, you wouldn't put up with ANY of it. But, if you accept and believe this stupid shit, you then TRAP YOURSELF into Hubbard's mind control system by what YOU "accept as true". Scientology works VERY HARD to get and keep its members agreeing with these ridiculous ideas.

This Scientology Belief Triangle (SBT) can be expressed as:

1) Your life, everyone's life, the world and the entire universe will fail for all eternity unless you succeed with Scientology. You will endure eternal pain and suffering, and even eventual extinction as a spiritual being UNLESS Scientology succeeds.

2) Scientology has the ONLY correct understanding of life, and the ONLY effective methods able to address and handle life. Scientology is the ONLY subject and activity capable of reversing the pain and suffering described in Belief One. ONLY Scientology possesses an effective Path to Salvation (Scientology's “Road to Freedom”, “The Bridge”).

3) L. Ron Hubbard, the author and creator of Scientology, is incapable of error. Everything he says about anything perfectly describes that reality and the related situations. It is only necessary to understand what he says and to do it. To do otherwise is to interfere with the Path to Salvation (Scientology's “Road to Freedom”) mentioned in Belief Two, and works to ensure the pain and suffering described in Belief One.

 

[secretiveoldfag]

http://www.tampabay.com/news/scient...r-temporary-injunction-against-former/1214868

Debbie says: 'These horrible things come from one person...'

She believes that person is David Miscavige but the real source is L. Ron Hubbard. Who was not kind and wonderful but a sadist.

Scientology was never good and kind, as she says. If she had not been brought up in the cult she would know this.

 

[Smurf]

IANAL, and this is just my opinion, but I think Debbie might be better off, rather than suing the Co$, to sue the individuals who participated in her abuse and mistreatment.

Miscavige, the "two big guys" who broke in and hauled her off to the Hole (kidnapping, false imprisonment), the major individuals who forced her into the garbage can and poured water on her, the lawyer who coerced her to sign the NDA, and I don't know who all... only she could actually name them.

I have no idea what the statute of limitations is on any of the charges she might be able to bring, but you can bet her lawyer does, and hopefully she will be asking.

Note that in the case of Warren Jeffs, recently convicted of multiple sex crimes against children, the "religion" he led was not the accused nor the defendant and though he tried, could not be called up to justify his acts and protect him.

Crime is crime. It's an equal opportunity employer and does not discriminate on the basis of race, creed, color, or sexual preference.

You're confusing criminal law with civil law. Also, it would be difficult to sue in civil court, because Debbie would need hard evidence to support her claims. The testimony of ex-Scilons would be disregarded as "hearsay" unless they had substantive proof to document their claims, i.e., videotape of the incidences.

The "transgressors" of the crimes against Debbie are active Scilons. They are trained to lie and preserve the cult agenda; lying "under penalty of perjury" in a wog court is meaningless to Scilons. Unless Debbie had videotape of the events proving her claims, her lawsuit would fail.

The difference between Debbie's situation & that of Warren Jeffs is that he openly espoused the sanctity of the crimes which he was later convicted of.. child rape and abuse.

There was ALOT of physical evidence, i.e., menstrual blood & semen found on sheets (on a bed inside their Temple) that matched the DNA of Jeffs and his victim (his child bride), confiscated photographs, logs & journals (Jeffs was strict on maintaining reports of his activities & that of the daily lives of his followers), and testimony from his child bride & other victims in the photos with Jeffs. One of those was his nephew, Brett, was was raised (and molested) by his uncle.

Debbie lacks the arsenal of evidence that prosecutors had against Jeffs.

 

[marsupial]

Loved this comment on WWP:

https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/debbie-cooks-tro-hearing-update-thread.99943/page-5

Anonymous said: ↑

...The extreme falsity of Cook’s statements is evident from the simple fact that, incredibly, in three hours of testimony she did not have a positive statement to make about anyone she ever encountered in her decades long Scientology career...​

... and I guess the fact that the CofS does not have a single positive statement to make about Debbie Cook in her decades long scientology career is evidence of the extreme falsity of the cult.​

CarterUSP, Yesterday at 10:20 AM
#181

The pot calls the kettle black! or doesn't in this case

 

[ChurchOfCylontology]

I would be surprised if this wasn't the first experience Miscavige has ever had of someone who arguably has integrity, verifiable statistics, depth of technical experience, and proven ability, standing up to him and saying back off dwarf.

I don't consider someone who wanted to illegally trade her silence (on crimes she witnessed) for personal gain as someone with integrity. I don't consider someone who personally regged millions of dollars from people who could barely afford it as someone with integrity.

 

[Lone Star]

This Scientology Belief Triangle (SBT) can be expressed as:

1) Your life, everyone's life, the world and the entire universe will fail for all eternity unless you succeed with Scientology. You will endure eternal pain and suffering, and even eventual extinction as a spiritual being UNLESS Scientology succeeds.

2) Scientology has the ONLY correct understanding of life, and the ONLY effective methods able to address and handle life. Scientology is the ONLY subject and activity capable of reversing the pain and suffering described in Belief One. ONLY Scientology possesses an effective Path to Salvation (Scientology's “Road to Freedom”, “The Bridge”).

3) L. Ron Hubbard, the author and creator of Scientology, is incapable of error. Everything he says about anything perfectly describes that reality and the related situations. It is only necessary to understand what he says and to do it. To do otherwise is to interfere with the Path to Salvation (Scientology's “Road to Freedom”) mentioned in Belief Two, and works to ensure the pain and suffering described in Belief One.

I like having those 3 points listed like that. It says it all.

I'm reminded of when I first starting waking up. It was in the course room doing a course in which you had to chart people you know on the tone scale from the Science of Survival. I was having trouble because I just couldn't get anyone I knew to "fit" on the chart in a straight line with all the "indicators". So I was sent to the word clearer to find out why I just wasn't getting it. The WC said, "Okay let's find out your confusion because if LRH wrote it then it's true". Inside I said, "Uh oh". That was the beginning of my rejecting the 3 points above.

 

[Man de la Mancha]

IANAL, and this is just my opinion...

That way, if she so chooses, she can still claim to be a faithful follower of the "religion" of scientology, as in the eyes of the law, "it" didn't do these things to her -- individual criminals did the deeds...

Crime is crime. It's an equal opportunity employer and does not discriminate on the basis of race, creed, color, or sexual preference.

If Cook sues Scn Inc., her attorneys will do just that, olska. In addition to the various Scn entities, they will name each offender individually. If the individuals were omitted, it would only be because Cook demanded they be omitted.

On the other hand, why sue an individual Sea Org member in civil court? Would you really garnish his/her "wages"!?!?

 

[Free to shine]

<snip>

l'évaluation grand. The big eval--just like everything else in Scientology where they know with complete certainty what you need to do to fix yourself, even though they didn't bother asking you.
<snip>

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

The bending back of Debbie's finger, or the ordered bending of her finger, to me, that needs a lot of repeating.

And the floor licking as punishment, also needs repeating.

Those two acts, ordered and implemented to whatever degree, at the Scientology "Vatican" (which has no visiting hours for Scientology tourists) need repeating!!

And repeating to "OTee" members!

They need to rise up the staff ranks and fix their movement, or hold onto their wallets, and stop making donations, minimally, like Debbie urged in her email.

This meme humbly tendered as a gif to mankind.

​

 

[marsupial]

[video=youtube;wMbqWwzReLc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMbqWwzReLc[/video]

 

[Man de la Mancha]

​

Hellahoax strikes again!

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

I’m a few pages behind on this thread…lots of gooder than good stuff from all Y’all.

I put up a post last year saying that I give better than even odds that it was only a matter of time before the Scn/NOI Sleepover Party blows up like a super glue laced turd bomb.

Maybe this has been brought up already but…I’ll betcha there’s more than one Mulla going W-T-F! right now.


Face

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

This meme humbly tendered as a gif to mankind.

​

Holy F'n S, HH...how'd you get your hands on the OT 45 materials?

 

[TG1]

OK, another rant (albeit brief) from me ... I seem to be into ranting lately.

I think you folks who are dismissive of Debbie and her analytical abilities concerning the Church of Scientology, the Scientology philosophy, L. Ron Hubbard, David Miscavige are effing silly.

You apparently expect her to believe exactly the same things you believe -- although she has likely not read what you've read, discussed what you've discussed, and she has certainly had significantly different experiences and a life than you've had.

You're all offended that she doesn't think L. Ron Hubbard was an espee? Why in hell would you (realistically) think she would at this point in her escape from the bubble of the Cult of $cientology?

You just heard her say she is learning for the first time about the rights and support available to her through the justice system, right?

You understand that she's very distracted by and struggling with her medical sitch, right?

You understand that until lately she's been very much inside the Church of Scientology bubble, right?

You understand that she's directing most of her communications to in-good-standing Scientologists from the only position of power she still has available to her -- as the once-respected position she held at Flag, right?

What part of G R A D I E N T do you not understand?

(That's only slightly a Scientology joke.)

In contrast to Debbie's evolution -- or instead, call it "learning from life" -- how long did it take for you to arrive atop your current mountain of omniscience?

If you're lucky, in five or ten years you'll look back on these years and realize what a stupid arse you were, too.

TG1