What's new

Sea Org Children: The Final Solution

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
Just musing to myself. OK, let's say it is true that a kid is a timeless thetan in a young body.

Does it really follow logically from that that a kid has all the responsibilities of an adult? It's obvious the body has to develop. You don't expect that timeless thetan to be able to walk and use the toilet immediately on birth.

And no one expects that timeless thetan to emerge from birth fully able to speak -- that means some brain development has to occur. To use a Scn term, this is really observation of the obvious -- obnosis.

Since it is obvious that thetans do not emerge as babies capable of the full range of "wog" adult responsibilities -- or even Scn capabilities, then how exactly did Scn establish how and at what level kids would be held responsible? (That's a rhetorical question -- but it seems to me that the answer lies in LRH's own childhood experiences and resentments.)

My mind is still reeling from the reality of sec checks on 6 year olds. And before age 6, I guess you are off the hook from sec checks but as a timeless thetan you don't need that stupid love an parental attention that any idiot "wog" can tell you is crucial to human development of language and well being.

Methinks the emperor does have clothes after all, and that he looks good in black.

You kid? Just curious.

Your description above is how it is being raised in the Sea Org. There is no patience in teaching. There is ethics for not knowing already.

And I have seen kids under age 6 get sec checks.
 

Crashed Alien

Patron with Honors
Then I read this kid's story, posted today: CJR's Story

cadet,

I read this. Actually, I read it a few times.

There is not a lot I can say about it right now, I am very upset - I have seen a few of this "type" of story posted - And I am not saying that to belittle it or categorise it - I am appalled - CJR is very brave and has suffered an ordeal that I would not wish, and would not inflict on anyone.

I was born into Scientology too. I have been involved to one degree or another since 1964...

I did not have this dreadful experience - Mine was quite different... and I am not sure right now if it was better or worse, or on the same level... I find I can't talk about it yet - I am not ready - It is all confused and wound up like a ball of string in my mind. I am trying to unravel it.

It must be part of waking up, getting back to reality and establishing just where things are messed up... It is hard to know where to start at the moment.

I feel so upset for CJR that I want to somehow take the hurt away... I almost feel bad that I didn't have the experience instead - that it happened to CJR and not to me. But then, at the same time I'm glad that it didn't. That feels wrong, sounds wrong... Not sure if I am making sense now...

All we can do is offer a supportive and helping hand.

And hopefully, CJR will be a little bit happier and will recover as much as is possible. I do hope so.

I decided that I am going to keep talking, even if it is abrasive, even if it is inflammatory and I come across as a fanatic.

I am glad to hear that, very glad.

You have already helped me a great deal, and I am very grateful, I thank you for that...

I am not sure where I'd be right now if you, and others who have been supportive and open had not been there...

Happily, that's not a road I now need to tread!

Crash
 

Crashed Alien

Patron with Honors
Cadet, you have every right to be angry. The treatment of children in the CoS and particularly the Sea Org, is something that makes a lot of people angry, including me.

I understand what you say about wanting to preserve your privacy and finding other personal stories uncomfortable to read. However, if no one told their story, then no one would know what happened. We can’t change what has happened in the past, but we can at least bring to account those responsible for the abuses, and stop it happening in the future. But to do this we have to get support from those responsible for protecting the human rights of others and enforcing the laws.

One way is to document all these personal stories and produce them as evidence. These can be passed to the media, as has already happened, and pressure applied to the ‘authorities’. It is an unfortunate fact that often those in positions of power will only act if they receive enough pressure from the media or other vocal groups. If we make enough noise, then they will have to act.

And, if nothing else, telling one’s story is a very cathartic experience. So many times, I have seen people carry around the burden of their experiences and suffering and not even realise how much it is affecting their lives right now. The simple action of talking about what they went through, especially with sympathetic and understanding people with shared experiences, can work miracles.

There was a time when I was very angry with my local organisation (St Hill Foundation), especially when they tried to weasel out of returning the money that I had on account for unused services. But then, I thought, “Who am I angry at?”

The staff who are over-worked, under-rested and constantly battling against unrealistic targets and huge pressure who can’t confront the problem of finding £20,000 when they can’t afford the basics of a decent life for themselves? They are worse off than me. Much worse in fact, they are stuck in a brainwashing cult - I escaped.

Once I realised this, things became a lot easier for me and I wasn’t consumed by my anger. Yes, I still feel anger when I read of some horrific personal experience or how the cult continues to abuse the human rights of others, but it doesn’t dominate my feeling towards the members of the cult. Mostly I feel sadness and pity.

I hope that you will continue to keep talking, you are valued here.

Axiom142

Thank you for that post - It is all so true - I have similar feelings although not quite as calm and settled (yet?).

Crash
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
My question is if there are any kids around saint hill now, a cadet org or young teenagers recruited along with their parents or by themselves. I understand the past neglect and abuse of kids, but what of now?
 

solo

Patron with Honors
My question is if there are any kids around saint hill now, a cadet org or young teenagers recruited along with their parents or by themselves. I understand the past neglect and abuse of kids, but what of now?

There is still a Sea Org school at Walsh Manor, near Crowborough. You can look up its OFSTED report. Of course, it all looks lovely, blah blah! Most of them unsurprisingly, do their "work experience" at Saint Hill........

Solo
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
Ah yes, the moving of furniture into storage just in time for inspectors to see a nicely ordered space. Yes I had done some shifting of beds. It was probably the Ballroom, which could look quite good when tarted up. Stonelands was supposed to be a school too wasn't it? Would you call that strangely devious behaviour for a 'church'?

I must say though with only 12 pupils it's not surprising that there is a good atmosphere, normal UK schools are having 30 plus in a class, with a few high and a few looking out for their chemical supplier. These kids spend half their study time drilling how to make it look like you really do study every weekday.I wonder though how often they get to do their class work, and how often they stuff envelopes.

Perhaps these ofsted inspectors need to guided where to look.
 

solo

Patron with Honors
Ah yes, the moving of furniture into storage just in time for inspectors to see a nicely ordered space. Yes I had done some shifting of beds. It was probably the Ballroom, which could look quite good when tarted up. Stonelands was supposed to be a school too wasn't it? Would you call that strangely devious behaviour for a 'church'?

I must say though with only 12 pupils it's not surprising that there is a good atmosphere, normal UK schools are having 30 plus in a class, with a few high and a few looking out for their chemical supplier. These kids spend half their study time drilling how to make it look like you really do study every weekday.I wonder though how often they get to do their class work, and how often they stuff envelopes.

Perhaps these ofsted inspectors need to guided where to look.

Yes, if only they would arrive unannounced! I guess the kids at Walsh Manor look like they're getting a brilliant education - small class sizes, study tech, good behaviour, etc. Pity the inspectors don't see the o/w write-ups, ethics orders, etc, that bring about this "good" behaviour. Or the lack of time with their parents.

I didn't know Stonelands was supposed to be a school. I remember the ballroom being moved around, numerous beds disappeared into storage quite regularly....

Solo
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
From what I remember the Stonelands building had been a school before so rather than getting planning permission to use it as something else they just pretended it was a school to the local council, who didn't believe it at all and in the end caught them with their proverbial trousers down.

There's a compulsion that scn execs have that makes them take any complicated and untruthful solution to simple problems, rather than follow the rules. A refusal to follow 'wog' policy. They really have no idea how stupid they look to all the authorities that deal with them.

A simple planning application would have legally changed the status of the building and there would have been no need for endless man hours of furniture shifting. They wouldn't have needed spies in the council either. All because of a failure to complete a cycle of action, proof of an SP!
 
I just want to post a link to another excellent thread on the subject of children in the Sea Org started in 2009. It focuses on illegal recruitment of minors by COS and the treatment of parents who rightly object to it. :grouch:

Please take a look at it:
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?12217-Children-Stolen-by-the-Sea-Org

Thanks. This is a HUGE human rights issue. :angry:

For anyone who is dealing with this now...do NOT be afraid to assert your parental rights over your child. You yourself are breaking the law if you do not personally insure your child's welfare. Minors in California and most other places can not legally sign a contract, especially one of this magnitude. It's not legally binding, it's a sham.

If ANYONE is pressuring you to "allow" a so-called "guardian" to enable your minor child to work illegally as a nearly unpaid slave in the Sea Org, go to your local Social Services, go to law enforcement, go to the local media and tell the truth about your experiences with COS. If ANYONE approaches your child at school or elsewhere when not in your presence, and hard sells them the Sea Org, or takes your child somewhere without your knowledge and permission to secretly try to recruit your child and bullies them into signing a Sea Org contract, which is legally unenforceable, contact law enforcement and press charges against them for kidnapping, unlawful detention, and interfering with a minor! :grouch:

Teach your children about this, educate and warn them that someone will try to recruit them, and that they cannot legally sign a contract while they are underage and that you will not allow them to join until they are a grown up, and have completely finished their education, including at least Community College or a trade school (now called a technical college, as many can earn college degrees), and are at least 21 years of age. Period. :clap:

Scientology, especially COS, is a dangerous and destructive CULT...stop feeding children into this Cult. Educate yourself as to the reality of this group, and your child's legal rights and YOUR legal responsibilities to your child.

I think it's only a matter of time before we see parents prosecuted for parental abandonment and neglect, as more activists get involved with reporting ongoing abuses to law enforcement.

And while we are at it, why are you still supporting this CULT once you know the truth about the systemic abuse with which they treat children and minors?
 
This brings up a question that I suspect has crossed the minds of more than one of us -- what happens to our auditing files? If we are declared and fair-gamed, all that sacred confessional crap obviously goes out the window. (Any "horrid" psychologist or psychiatrist who violated a similar patient-practioner trust would lose the right to practice -- how much wiser is the "wog" world than Scn on this point.) That question could be a whole new thread.

Sticking to this thread, I am reminded of this video on sec checks for children ages 6-12. This is really a bonkers treatment of children in my opinion. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMmnBXcYN9Q

Geeze. All I had to do with my daughter once when she was around two was give her a time out. When she realized that the time outs would get longer if she misbehaved, she got it and was fine. She needed no parental (much less "church") intrusion into her mind.

How typical it is of any totalitarian system that it is you who must get in agreement with the group even when the group is clearly wrong, wrong, wrong. (Take Cool Hand Luke -- ".... you're gonna get your mind right. And I mean RIGHT ....").

It's bad enough that adults have to go through sec checks -- but man do I feel for kids who had to go through such BS.

Thank you very much Casey, for bringing up this excellent point! One which I wish ALL Scientologists would acknowledge. And what happens to files in Independent or Free Zone auditing, too? You're right, this topic does deserve a whole 'nother thread! :thumbsup:
 
Okay, I'm not imposing this thought on anyone, and I don't mean to turn people off, but especially where kids and families are concerned, I think I should speak my truth about this, as so many people can potentially benefit. :thumbsup:

To my way of thinking, everyone who leaves Scientology after having been in for a long time or to a great degree (in SO or on staff, or certainly RAISED in it) needs some form of exit counseling to aide in the transition to life in the real world. Not to imply that they are damaged or unable, just that the experience of being part of this Cult is overwhelming, and life altering, at best mind-bending and socially restricting, and at worst traumatic as mental, emotional, physical and financial abuse has occurred, and we all need help to deal with overwhelming situations or circumstances in our lives. :) Being in a cult is just one such situation. There is absolutely no shame in asking for help when you need it, or when someone in your family does! This can effect the well-being of everyone in the family. :thumbsup:

This counseling and support can take place in many venues and through many forms, both formal and informal. :thumbsup: Much of it is happening right here and right now on this forum, by us all talking and sharing our stories and thoughts and feelings about issues! :)

Much takes place informally between romantic partners and the families and friends of Exes. Thank God for all of the help and support that is available now, as so much more knowledge is public now, thanks to the Internet, about Scientology's abuses over the years since it's inception.

More formal or structured counseling can also be found in many places, support and self-help groups, like 12 step and other self-help programs, even like Weight Watchers! Don't be afraid to do some research on line to learn a little bit about types and forms of mental health counseling in the real world. It is not the nightmarish, degrading scenario that Scientology paints it to be. If not for yourself, maybe someone in your family or a friend you know may benefit from what you learn about it. :thumbsup:

There are also licensed clinical social workers who work as "therapists" but do not give drugs or suggest electro-convulsive therapy, in addition to licensed psychologists, who mostly do talking therapy individually or in groups, but also refer people to medical doctors for help when needed. Psychiatrists are licensed and trained medical doctors who specialize in treating people who are medically ill with brain disease and dysfunction and they can prescribe medication, as well as to additionally help people with talking therapy. They are the only counselors or therapists who can prescribe medication.

There are a whole range of educated para-professional counselors, like licensed ministers with certified counseling training, and substance abuse counselors, social workers who teach parenting classes, or counsel kids in foster care and their foster families, trained and credentialed "life coaches" who help people to handle their problems and challenges, etc.

There are many forms and kinds of "talking" therapy. There are also Spiritual Counselors of many types (Ministers, Rabbis, Priests, Monks, Imams, etc.) who by training and experience are there to listen and to help people with their troubles, especially in recovering from emotional and spiritual abuse in a cult. I know some of the posters here have big buttons on religion, and I understand why. But many religious advisors and spiritual counselors are also cross-trained in psychology and serve as mental health counselors as well, certainly not all.

I just want to make the point that counseling help, in MANY forms, is widely widely available. It does not have to be expensive, either. This can speed the healing and recovery process along for Exes who are struggling with any issues, and no one should feel like they have to "work this out" by themselves. Isolation is counter-productive to recovery, for most people. :)

There is no implied criticism by me of anyone who chooses another path, in my pointing out that many forms of counseling and help are widely available, even over the Internet. It's just that, given the demonization of psychiatry and psychology by Ron and his Cult, often those Cult survivors who could benefit from counseling the most understand it their options about it the least, and are the most reluctant or resistant to seek or accept help with healing.

Keep talking, everyone! It helps! :)
 

Man de la Mancha

Patron with Honors
And believe me the fault is ALL with us, the parents. Not the children.

The parents certainly share the blame with Scn Inc, but in my opinion parents who speak out fearlessly are more than worthy of forgiveness and understanding. It's people like you who may help save thousands of children from a similar fate, which wouldn't be possible if you were never involved.

I've read some of your posts to those Sea Org kids, and it seems like you are a very sincere and caring person. I'm sure everyone joins me in thanking you for your concern on this issue. I believe the situation with the kids is the first priority. It's frustrating to be so powerless to help.
 

Crashed Alien

Patron with Honors
To my way of thinking, everyone who leaves Scientology after having been in for a long time or to a great degree (in SO or on staff, or certainly RAISED in it) needs some form of exit counseling to aide in the transition to life in the real world. Not to imply that they are damaged or unable, just that the experience of being part of this Cult is overwhelming, and life altering, at best mind-bending and socially restricting, and at worst traumatic as mental, emotional, physical and financial abuse has occurred, and we all need help to deal with overwhelming situations or circumstances in our lives. :) Being in a cult is just one such situation. There is absolutely no shame in asking for help when you need it, or when someone in your family does! This can effect the well-being of everyone in the family. :thumbsup:

SweetnessAndLight... Reluctantly, I think you might be right...

I think this counts whether it is a cult or a religion that no longer suits oneself...

I can honestly say that I am having more than a little difficulty transitioning to life in the real world - I have been in the real world for a while, but that makes very little difference.

For me, it is the underlying bullying from the people in the organisation, backed my the organisation's management that has taken its toll...

It is the emotional blackmail, the watching friends and family suffer... Sometimes very subtle things, sometimes blatant!

I feel that my perspective is all over the place, corrupting and interfering with some of my thought processes which are mixed with ones that are not corrupt - Only problem is that it is hard for me alone to tell which is corrupt and which is not.

Am I making any sense at all?

Thank you for your post - I do feel a little less crazy when I hear things that I thought only I was experiencing...

Crash
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
Crashed, you are not alone believe me.

Sometimes it's the subtle things that are the hardest. They can sneak in without you noticing. It's the crappy broken furniture that is all you are worth, the millions spent on legal fees and yet still can't afford insulation or heating in berthing. Being given a wobbly chair in the dining room or a three high bunk bed in a small draughty room is invalidation. Here you go, you deserve to live like a chicken, woops didn't get all the beans and rice in your trough, you'll probably lick it off the table any way.
 

olska

Silver Meritorious Patron
...
Thank you for your post - I do feel a little less crazy when I hear things that I thought only I was experiencing...

Crash

I know this wasn't the main point of your post, but you bring up something extremely important:

the freedom to discuss your feelings and experience with others

which can be very, very healing.

Note that in scientology you were not allowed to discuss your "case" except in session with an auditor ... and if you shared your dissatisfaction with the way things were with another, bam here comes the nonenturbulation order from Ethics.

Out in the "wog" world, there are groups of people who get together to share their experience, their strength, their pain, their hope, with the express purpose of helping each other to understand what they've experienced, and heal.

There are consciousness-raising groups, support groups, 12-step groups (like Alcoholics Anonymous and for many, many other issues...), Group Therapy sessions, where members have a chance to talk about what they experienced and share how they are feeling about it, without shame, embarrassment, or make-wrong.

What happens in those kinds of sessions is you VERY QUICKLY find out that you are not the "only one!" You're not "crazy" (or at least no crazier than anyone else :whistling:), and the people with whom you share a common issue understand EXACTLY what you're talking about, and can offer some comfort at the least, and some tips on how to deal with it, and often their own experience of healing and finding their way.

While this is a very natural process to regular human beings, this is "forbidden" and NEVER happens in scientology! As a result, after leaving the cult some people find it very difficult to share their experience -- they feel guilty, they think they're just whining, being a victim, whatever -- all that crap you were fed as a scientologist.

Sharing your experience, and reading the similar experiences of others, is a vital part of the healing process. Use it.

Here on this forum you are free to share whatever is on your mind, and to read the stories of others who've been on a similar trip through the darkness. That is one of the main reasons many of us come here -- to share our experience, our healing, our hope.

Best of luck and good wishes for you.

o
 

Crashed Alien

Patron with Honors
I know this wasn't the main point of your post, but you bring up something extremely important:

the freedom to discuss your feelings and experience with others

which can be very, very healing.

Note that in scientology you were not allowed to discuss your "case" except in session with an auditor ... and if you shared your dissatisfaction with the way things were with another, bam here comes the nonenturbulation order from Ethics.

Out in the "wog" world, there are groups of people who get together to share their experience, their strength, their pain, their hope, with the express purpose of helping each other to understand what they've experienced, and heal.

There are consciousness-raising groups, support groups, 12-step groups (like Alcoholics Anonymous and for many, many other issues...), Group Therapy sessions, where members have a chance to talk about what they experienced and share how they are feeling about it, without shame, embarrassment, or make-wrong.

What happens in those kinds of sessions is you VERY QUICKLY find out that you are not the "only one!" You're not "crazy" (or at least no crazier than anyone else :whistling:), and the people with whom you share a common issue understand EXACTLY what you're talking about, and can offer some comfort at the least, and some tips on how to deal with it, and often their own experience of healing and finding their way.

While this is a very natural process to regular human beings, this is "forbidden" and NEVER happens in scientology! As a result, after leaving the cult some people find it very difficult to share their experience -- they feel guilty, they think they're just whining, being a victim, whatever -- all that crap you were fed as a scientologist.

Sharing your experience, and reading the similar experiences of others, is a vital part of the healing process. Use it.

Here on this forum you are free to share whatever is on your mind, and to read the stories of others who've been on a similar trip through the darkness. That is one of the main reasons many of us come here -- to share our experience, our healing, our hope.

Best of luck and good wishes for you.

o

O,

What a really lovely reply to me... Thank you.

Apart from the board here, I am now able to share bits of my experiences with 3 other people! That is quite an achievement for me, but only the first tentative steps of what is currently quite a daunting journey.

I hope you also do well on your journey...

Crash
 
Top