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Axiom142

Gold Meritorious Patron
I didn't realise the two events were so far apart. Do the girls remember the names of anyone involved?

Were Valeska and Mellissa Paris anything to do with Angela Paris (Berthoud)? She is currently the head of Walsh Manor School.

Graeme Wilson is of course still very involved at a high level. it would be interesting if he was implicated in a child abuse case. I believe Cathy Sproule is still at Saint Hill, possibly in OSA.

Solo

As I recall - and I hope someone will correct me here if this isn’t right – Angela was married to Jean-Francois Paris. He came over from Switzerland (I think) with his children and met and married Angela at St Hill. In any case, they were both at St Hill when I was there in ’86 – ’87.

J-F was a talented artist, he worked in the reg office at AOSH but was often co-opted into doing artwork for the various events. He had a car (an Opel Monza coupe) on the bonnet of which he had painted a mural of a woman. It was very impressive and all the rage at the time.

I’m 95% certain Cathy is in OSA. She was at some of the events ‘observing’ us (although she quickly walked away when confronted). I’ve also seen her at EG train station, with a camera, ‘spotting’ for Anons / critics.

Axiom142
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
I've had this on my mind all day today. This afternoon, I held my newborn grandson quietly for an hour and thought about what had happened to these girls and the decision their mother had made. I am certain I would never have made that decision. I know I would physically fight to protect my children and grandchildren from harm. In fact, I left the SO mostly because my son was being bullied and no-one would help him.

It may be true that Paula and John would have been bad parents in any situation. Yes, maybe the SO looked like a great solution to them, if they thought they could unload their children onto nannies.

Yes, there's no excuse for what happened. No mother who loved her children would do that, I know.

But it's not up to me, or us, to judge these people. They made their decisions and they were patently wrong by most standards, but even so, we can't possibly know what was going on in their minds and how much their behaviour was determined by their church conditioning.

That's why we're here.

Solo


Paula was always dopey and robotic IMO and John was kind of vacant and usually seemed bewildered (to me) but he was certainly softer.

I agree, they would have been the same wherever they were and scientology (SO) just made it easier to be an appalling parent.

I haven't stopped thinking about this either, some of the sad confused little faces haunt me to this day and I can't think about them without blubbing.

johnAnchovie
please, catch this ...

:blowkiss:

 

Crashed Alien

Patron with Honors
Sorry Paul, I am going to have to correct some of your corrections.

It is Graeme Reid Wilson, now of OSA. The po-faced and dour Scot has done some PR work for the cult, but seems to have taken a less visible role more recently. Appeared in this well-known example of how Scientology makes people happier (not):

http://www.scientology-london.com/danger/index_files/the-way-to-happiness.php

It is definitely Sharlene Turczak. She appears to be into training now (just over half way down the page, on the right): http://www.uktraining-solutions.co.uk/meet-the-team/

Cathy (Catherine Julia) Sproule now appears to be Cathy Gouws.

When I left CLO in Nov 1987, the staff were:

CO – Steve Lake
DCOI – Ken Warren
DCOI (internal) - Sally Steele
Cont Finance Director – Ray Blunden
(something finance) – Jim Sproule
SO Programs Chief – Maria Lake
Senior HCO – Sharlene Turczak, Kailani Frost, Brian Craik-Smith, Lynn Ashworth
Qual Sec (?) – Mike Phillips
Staff Section Officer – Elan Barram
A/ Treas Aide – Robert Wilkins
CO SMI – Rolf Glatt
HAS – Ann MacKilligan
Tours Regs – Craig Mathieson, David Beale, Drew Robb
CF Computerisation – John Wadey
Security Chief – Kevin Tyson
Continental Training Director (course supervisor) – David Press
? – Jean Tyson
? – Janine Brice

In the early noughties, Bruce Perry was CO before he got declared.

CMO staff:

CO CMO – Ginger Smith
Other CMO staff – Tom Hardy, Lisa Relihan, Jane Barran (Hayton), Raymond Dalrymple

Sharlene Turczak was married to John, who was ED of London Day. Or Foundation, I forget which. Anyway, this was unusual in that Sharlene was obviously SO, but John wasn’t (presumably ‘out-qualled’). So, strictly speaking, he shouldn’t have been living in the SO ‘berthing’ which was Bullards.

Sharlene later became very ill with ME and left the Sea Org. I saw her a few years ago and thankfully was doing a lot better.

Kailani Frost was married to Cameron Frost, who was the SO rep in St Hill Foundation. He later got very ill with MS, I believe and had to leave the SO.

From my own investigations, it appears that the majority of CLO staff have left the SO, although many remain Scientologists.

Axiom142

Axiom142

You are right, Cameron Frost did leave the SO and then died.

He was my friend... A very good friend.

Kailani behaved very badly at that time... "In Sickness and in Health" seemed to have passed her by... I shouldn't really say such things and judge so harshly - I suppose we all deal with adversity in different ways.

However, it is at these times that we find out who our friends really are!

I have tried to have as little to do with Kailani as possible since then.

I loved Cameron dearly...

Crash
 

Crashed Alien

Patron with Honors
Sorry Paul, I am going to have to correct some of your corrections.

It is Graeme Reid Wilson, now of OSA. The po-faced and dour Scot has done some PR work for the cult, but seems to have taken a less visible role more recently. Appeared in this well-known example of how Scientology makes people happier (not):

http://www.scientology-london.com/danger/index_files/the-way-to-happiness.php

It is definitely Sharlene Turczak. She appears to be into training now (just over half way down the page, on the right): http://www.uktraining-solutions.co.uk/meet-the-team/

Cathy (Catherine Julia) Sproule now appears to be Cathy Gouws.

When I left CLO in Nov 1987, the staff were:

CO – Steve Lake
DCOI – Ken Warren
DCOI (internal) - Sally Steele
Cont Finance Director – Ray Blunden
(something finance) – Jim Sproule
SO Programs Chief – Maria Lake
Senior HCO – Sharlene Turczak, Kailani Frost, Brian Craik-Smith, Lynn Ashworth
Qual Sec (?) – Mike Phillips
Staff Section Officer – Elan Barram
A/ Treas Aide – Robert Wilkins
CO SMI – Rolf Glatt
HAS – Ann MacKilligan
Tours Regs – Craig Mathieson, David Beale, Drew Robb
CF Computerisation – John Wadey
Security Chief – Kevin Tyson
Continental Training Director (course supervisor) – David Press
? – Jean Tyson
? – Janine Brice

In the early noughties, Bruce Perry was CO before he got declared.

CMO staff:

CO CMO – Ginger Smith
Other CMO staff – Tom Hardy, Lisa Relihan, Jane Barran (Hayton), Raymond Dalrymple

Sharlene Turczak was married to John, who was ED of London Day. Or Foundation, I forget which. Anyway, this was unusual in that Sharlene was obviously SO, but John wasn’t (presumably ‘out-qualled’). So, strictly speaking, he shouldn’t have been living in the SO ‘berthing’ which was Bullards.

Sharlene later became very ill with ME and left the Sea Org. I saw her a few years ago and thankfully was doing a lot better.

Kailani Frost was married to Cameron Frost, who was the SO rep in St Hill Foundation. He later got very ill with MS, I believe and had to leave the SO.

From my own investigations, it appears that the majority of CLO staff have left the SO, although many remain Scientologists.

Axiom142

Axiom142

Maria and Steve Lake are not together any more.

Last I heard, it was a case of childhood sweethearts getting together later in life: I heard Maria is now with Peter Ford in USA...

Might have just been a rumour, but that was what I made of it.

Crash
 

Gwydion

Patron
Lesolee,

This was almost certainly the pool at Walsh Manor. It wasn’t built for the staff, but was already there when they acquired the buildings. Someone painted a Sea Org symbol on the bottom, and it looked quite good.

But, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if it had been drained and was unused by now. Maintaining a pool in good condition and heating it costs money. Staff aren’t really considered valuable enough to merit such an expenditure that has no direct return.

Axiom142

When I was there in 95' I used to love taking a swim in that pool. It was lovely.
 

Gwydion

Patron
:unsure::unsure:er 94 95 or 96 ish is the best i can remember, i spose its all the deception ive made about the time in C.Vs and employment forms :dieslaughing: i did so many things there
including the inner skin of the box at the new gatehouse, the staff member in reno's i was with on that was called Neil too lol
The murdo mentioned earlier was in the epf helping with the road resurfacing later on

I chipped in with the rennos on the stables and the goundwork when I was attempting to route out to save myself from boredom. 95ish, Helping to put a new concrete floor in the basement and working on the wooden stair cases that were up the side at the back with a hilarious Austrian chap. There were lots of other odd jobs done too, mostly snagging and cleaning as the Stables Rennos was almost finished.

That Fugees verson of killing me softy was on the radio constantly I remember which whenever I hear now beings me right back there.

They had all this fancy china with the Sea Org logo printed all over it. On the first opening when it was all finished with a group of specially flown in Italians to do the cooking. After working for weeks we got to eat slops in the old mess and were brought left over unfinished deserts by Spike to celebrate.

sheesh. That pissed me off lol
 

still here

Patron with Honors
Dear all

Today I had guests for dinner and was cleaning this afternoon.

I have always been very finickety about cleanliness....I think this may have come from my white glove experiences!! (or maybe they just fitted with me)

Years later (after SCN and SO) in my professional job one of my staff said when I arrived to take on a new office and asked that they "sort" some meeting rooms " We have heard you are a bit neurotic from your current office...," They were right!

Today though I had to sit down and laugh out loud at my memory - I thought it may amuse you....

In Folo UK about 1977, I worked in the South lodge (the gatehouse) I was Management Aide and worked with the FFR (flag, flag Rep, and the head of Div 6 the CO UK, and about 3 others. I will not name them, but the were awesome...
It was a very small building (3.5 rooms) and the rest of Folo were in various caravans and sheds about the place.

The 6 of us got on very well and loved our work...we were all competent and although I was the "New girl" we got on well and had fun, we did work very hard!

One day a flag mission arrived (not that common then) and their first order was that the whole of SH was to be white gloved. THe whole place got cleaning.....including us six.

I love cleaning and the gatehouse was very small, so we scrubbed it....One member decided he needed to clean the ceiling - we all smoked...so he started on a ladder with bleach...sadly it got worse and worse and the poor guy was up that ladder scrubbing, and re-scrubbing with bleach for about 48 hours....no we kept saying, do it again!

The rest of us tackled everything else. As the deadline approached we found we had lots of very old office equipment, old typewriters, adding machines, you name it! Thick with grease and impossible to clean??? We got together and then our ceiling man said - I know put them all in the cupboard, an old rotting door and cubby hole... we shoved everything uncleanable into this cupboard, (there was hardly any equipment left in the office!!) What, said one of our very bright colleagues, if they look inside? Our ceiling man said - (maybe he had had enough...) "Simple"! and removed the door knob...Which we threw away.

The inspection the next day - we passed with flying colours and yes, they did, check the ceiling!!!!

The rest of SH was still cleaning and re-cleaning a week later....more honest I think!!

It made me laugh, but it reminded me that we were a team, we solved problems and pulled together and won....and the place was VERY clean anyway....

fond memories....

I hope you enjoyed!! :happydance:
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
The rest of SH was still cleaning and re-cleaning a week later....more honest I think!!

Yes. I remember that. I think it was about 3 days. It was our first experience of a "proper" white glove. After that they got easier (not less strict) because the backlog of dirt and grime had been removed and it was more of a touch-up, if somewhat extreme.

Paul
 

still here

Patron with Honors
You are so right Paul, and of course we got so good at it!

I also remember Jane Kember ordering the gardening project....
I was hauled into her office when she pointed out a scar on the manor lawn, made by staff taking a quick route.

I think it was Sunday mornings when all the GOWW staff were out gardening, and as I walked to work from Stables past all the huge rhodedenrons, there seemed to be hundreds of people in the bushes, all silent, and all working - it was quite surreal...lots of goblins in the bushes!

(I am not calling you a goblin of course)

Do you think that all that equipment is still in that cupboard with no handle in the South Lodge? I hope so.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Oh yes, I remember all those GOWW peeps in the gardens over the weekend when they normally moonlighted, so they probably got quite pissed off. The grounds looked nice, though.

Goblin? I've been called worse. :)

Handle? It's easy enough to take another handle off and stick the square axle through the hole and undo the door, assuming it's one of that type. I doubt if they had to break the door down. And no, I don't think it's still as you left it!

Paul
 

still here

Patron with Honors
Dear Paul

I am sure you are right, our poor missionaires never worked out how to open the door.. but I am sure eventually someone did!

Apologies to anyone who failed a whiteglove when that cupboard was opened...and to anyone who had to clean all that garbage!

:whistling:
 

RolandRB

Rest in Peace
Axiom142

Fro what I know, planning permission was originally sought and subsequently refused. However, after some research/investigation, it was found that there is an old rule in English law - Something to do with not requiring planning permission to build on the site of an existing castle... I believe that it cannot be refused.

The rest is history.

Crash

You are not allowed to build a fortified building in the UK without permission from the Crown Estate.

And there would not have been the ruins of a castle there because the history of it would have been known. It would have been in the Doomsday Book for a start.
 

Axiom142

Gold Meritorious Patron
You are not allowed to build a fortified building in the UK without permission from the Crown Estate.

And there would not have been the ruins of a castle there because the history of it would have been known. It would have been in the Doomsday Book for a start.

Which I believe I said. :)

Ax
 

HAPInoose

Patron
Came across this photo today which roughly correlates with the time period being discussed. So many faces I'd forgotten about... Seeing Ken Warren's big head alone is enough to make me smile...



AOSHUKcrew90s-1.jpg
 

ThetanExterior

Gold Meritorious Patron
Well, well. For quite some time I've been trying to think of the name of the person who audited me at Saint Hill in the 1990s and it just wouldn't come to mind. Then today, completely out of the blue, I got a name - Liz Cotton.

I did a google search on "scientology liz cotton" and this thread came up!

Apart from being relieved that I came up with her name I've also enjoyed reading this thread so I thought I'd give it a bump.
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
Well, well. For quite some time I've been trying to think of the name of the person who audited me at Saint Hill in the 1990s and it just wouldn't come to mind. Then today, completely out of the blue, I got a name - Liz Cotton.

I did a google search on "scientology liz cotton" and this thread came up!

Apart from being relieved that I came up with her name I've also enjoyed reading this thread so I thought I'd give it a bump.

I remember the day she arrived to start her "career" in the SO.
 

ThetanExterior

Gold Meritorious Patron
I remember the day she arrived to start her "career" in the SO.
After I'd gone back to my local org she sent me a nice letter asking how I was doing. I wrote back to her as a friend would tell another friend what was going on in their life. Then I got a letter from a reg saying she had passed my letter to him and he wanted me to contact him to discuss my next action!

I still remember the feeling of betrayal but now I'm out I can understand why she did it. I hope she woke up eventually and got out but I doubt it.
 
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