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Stably exterior with full perception

guanoloco

As-Wased
As a teenager with anorexia I was quite often exterior. I used to like watching people eat as I could taste what they were eating. :omg:
I felt incredibly powerful while it lasted.

I think you've hit on a key point here...that is...if there is any factuality to going exterior or exomatosis or OBEs or NDEs or whatever we want to call it.

That key point may be stress on the body. I don't know to what degree your anorexia went to but this seems to coincide with drug experiences (which are a poison afterall) and surgeries or patient revival from accidents/trauma, etc.

Obviously that doesn't explain all of the phenomena but this does seem to be one of them.

In conjunction with this there's ample evidence of emotional/mental stress doing the same. Concern over spouses and families and loved ones - stuff like that.
 

DagwoodGum

Squirreling Dervish
I have never seen a cord during any exteriorization practices I have used in the past....or in any lifetime I can recall.

So, apparently we're not merely trapped in our body, we are trapped within bodies trapped within bodies, like peeling an onion. No wonder it's no simple task to get out and stay out. I last saw my astral body as a young child, and when I was out 2 of my relatives could see me but not the others. Spawned my interest in Scn. Too bad Ron didn't do a better copy paste of matters of such relevance, maybe it would have kept Scientology working rather than our blind subscription to the policy.... Nice post!
B
 

Veda

Sponsor
Compare Robert Monroe's first out of body experience:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MHBM8prTP8&feature=player_embedded

(That thread: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...Monroe-Leonard-Cohen&p=483479&highlight=bardo)

With L. Ron Hubbard talking about being up in the Van allen belt:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaqQ4pXVypY

And some more stuff - for newbie lurkers...

Stanford Research Institute experimental psychologist Keith Harary, and Russell Targ, a physicist also from Stanford, wrote a book titled 'Mind Race' (as in 'space race'). It contains a section on the exploitation of psychic phenomena, or the promise of psychic phenomena, by cults.

Both were well aware of Scientology, and had worked with Ingo Swann, who did Scientology's "OT levels," and later (after leaving) described them as "disappointing." Swann claims to have been a natural psychic since childhood.

From the book, 'Mind Race':

"You won't find these groups listed under 'cults' in the Yellow pages. For income tax and public relations purposes, most refer to themselves as 'Churches'. But cults differ from traditional churches in several important ways...

"In our society, a person who is beginning to experience emerging psychic abilities, or who is interested in doing so, has almost nowhere to turn for guidance. Anyone with a purely scholarly interest in Psi research can write to various laboratories or read the research reports. But this information probably will not be of much practical personal use...

"This is the dilemma that leads many people to join cults in the first place. By accepting and exploiting psychic phenomena in a society that does not readily accept them, cults have effectively monopolized the subject of psi. They have exploited many people who are interested in learning about the area, and frightened many others away from ever considering the possibility...

"People are often drawn into cults that claim to offer explanations for psychic functioning, but at great personal, emotional, and financial expense to their followers. We think that giving away your mind is too high a price to pay for psychic development...

"For some people, the exposure to the possibility of developing their own psychic potential, which some cults appear to provide, may initially help certain individuals pay attention to areas of their own awareness that they might not otherwise consider exploring.

"But prolonged exposure to any cult's treatment of psychic abilities may seriously restrict the way its initiates view psychic functioning. And it may keep them from fully developing their actual psychic potential...

"Despite claims to the contrary by numerous factions, there is no evidence of an exclusive relationship between psychic functioning and any particular leader, doctrine , or way of life. Scientific evidence does strongly suggest that the ability to function psychically is a genuine human capacity which, for many people, seems to improve with practice."


Some links, in no particular order:

Rosicrucian telepathy: http://books.google.com/books?id=o_...Ymuw7XF&sig=HNSwCEEHt2fDbDge2Iq82Y-Bl2M&hl=en

Some of the more notable pages of the long 'Exteriorization with full perception' thread:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=1079

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?p=12160

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=1079&page=4

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=1079&page=5

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=1079&page=6

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=1079&page=7

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=1079&page=8

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=1079&page=12

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=1079&page=14

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=1079&page=18

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=1079&page=25

Plus,

Video excerpt from the 'Bardo', with Leonard Cohen narrating. (Ending segment not from original. Video may stick at beginning; if so, try tweaking.)

"Recognize them as a reflection of your own mind. Recognition and liberation are simultaneous."

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-212863829226111861&q=tibetan+book+of+the+dead

The 'Sole Source Myth' thread (derailed somewhat after page 4): http://forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=510

Also, as an extra bonus, here's an exercise from the early 1900s that includes spanning attention, visualization (mock ups), specialized mock ups where a person attempts to place a mock up of the same size etc. as a physical object in the same space as the physical object, and projection of consciousness through the solar system.

It even warns about avoiding what amounts to "overrun."

(Note: "Nuit" - as used in the below link - denotes "Infinity.")

http://hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib536.html

Handy navigational aid: http://www.nasa.gov/vision/universe/solarsystem/voyager-interstellar-terms.html


An embarrassing incident with the Commodore during the 1968 Class 8 course: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=12193&postcount=35

'Exteriorization vs dissociation' thread: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?p=485387

'On being Exterior, your views?' thread: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20613


There is some redundancy.
 

88grailer

New Member
Hi All,

Certainly an interesting thread here. I have always found it interesting to compare what LRON said about exteriorization with what was known and developed by other cultures and systems about the subject. I consider that Exteriorization is valuable in and of itself because it constitutes a form of proof to the practioner who goes exterior and takes a look at people, places and things from this new perspective. When and if one can do this the proof is the existance of eternity.

The bare minimum condition necessary for exteriorization is to have the Spirit in charge of the Body and the Mind. Four well known schools of thought stress the importance of who's in charge: Scio. Taosim Indian Yoga and AA. With the Spirit in charge of the Body and the Mind the experience of Exteriorization becomes possible.
This is not to say that many systems don't flirt with Exteriorization. Many do but it is not a primary goal. For example in the Catholic Church Padre Pio, Meister Eckhard and St. Francis went Exterior as needed or wanted.

It is a two terminal universe here (R.B. Fuller) The Thetan (Yuan Chen) is one terminal and the Body is the other. (1st ACC). The Secret of The Golden Flower (Ti I Chin Hau Tsung Chi) says that it will take 100 day to go exterior. Exteriorization is the goal of this text. Exteriorization is accomplished by bringing the G.E. (Tan Tien)under good control. When this is accomplished on the right gradient (The one that works.) the Spirit is back in charge of the Body and the Mind and the correct order is restored. One sees that one IS the diamond body and now you know what real order is. The real order is what you see and may be somewhat different that what LRH and CofS specked out so exteriorization became a somewhat low priority item.

The same text also say that back in the day (11th Millenium and prior there to) only fools did not know these practices. The people having lost their roots cling to the tree tops is what the text says. Evidently the situation is somewhat worse these days as many people question if there are tree tops to cling to.

A teacher I knew Detong Cho Yin used to say that if you want to become enlightened you have to study the works of those who became enlightened. An important point to duplicate. Not only that but I have to develop a practice that leads to goal of Exteriorization. If I have never gone exterior and have no way to get there I have good reason to suspect that all the claims about exteriorization are completely bogus.

Most certainly the first step in the process is to get the Spirit back in charge of the Body and the Mind and then remain in this fit spiritual condition. Is this ARC, good control, good com, becomming Theta the solver of problems...sure, of course it is all of that and more and on the right gradient to boot and in PT. What do I care if all I can do is the best I can do today when it makes me happy and helpfull today to do it. Isn't it obvious that there is no downside to a process that brings about the unobscured shinning of Theta for all living things? When your looking at what is looking the works gettin done and when your not it is just the accumulation of more incompleted cycles of action.

There is an interesting line in the Hau HU Ching by Lao Tzu: 'We are the energies to which we connect ourselves.' The Thetan longs to be connected again to the highest, the sweetest and the best, it can never be satisfied by anything less as Meister Eckhard said. It has been a long road since the departure in Incident 1 ...count it all joy that it is possible to find a way back.

You know, I clearly remember suffering with the poet who said...

Poor little children,
lost and afraid
who have never
been happy or good

W.H. Auden

In those days I thought that conditions were fixed
and I maintained that viewpoint untill I went exterior
and found myself out in the Galaxy somewhere with the
bodhisattva Manjusri. That changed my viewpoint which
lead me to the conclusion that the best way to change
a viewpoint is to get another one. I could not get Buddhism
to work for me so I went into Scientology. I went exterior on
the Grades, co-auditing Dianetics 55 on my own with a friend
as I could not get Flag interested in that one and I knew it
would work. The longest I have been able to stay exterior
is 3 days. Of course the fixed conditions are long gone,
Buddism works fine for me, so does Scio, Taoism, AA, Patanjali,
if it works it is good and thats that.

What with all LRH had to say about subjects that were no more than nomenclatures and Sciences that never progressed and just went over and over the same data, I have to ask where all the new Scientology Data is on Exteriorization. What with the Congresses, The Basics, The Acc's everything pretty much out in the open, see you would have to think that folks would be going exterior like crazy but this thread does not indicate that. Not a lot of new, practical info on the subject. The right info in the wrong hands, goes nowhere.

It has been 60 years since the release of the 1st ACC. It does not seem to me that everyone in Scio. is a Black 5. During the preceeding Kali Yuga it would be expected that the teachings would be degraded, or boobytrapped or whatever. But now it is the Satya Yuga and it just seems foolish not to know how to go exterior.

I would like to suggest that main problem with the Scientology Data on Exteriorization is that it cannot be evaluated by Obnosis. LRH made it verboten to use Obnosis on Exteriorization. He did this by forbidding the practice of MEDITATION. MEDITATION stabalizes EXTERIORIZATION. If I cannot hold the two terminals apart I cannot achieve stable exteriorization. I am going to have to use OBNOSIS to achieve GNOSIS.

Think about this for a minute. I am going to have to put the Spirit back in charge of my mind and my body to get the job done. Lets say the swing vote is the mind so I am going to have get it under good control. I am going to have to use LOOKING to do that. As a thetan I am going to have to look at this mind I created and see what it is. By so doing I achieve KNOWINGNESS (GNOSIS).

By making meditation verboten LRH pushed everyone into a state of NOT KNOW or AGNOSTICISM. AGNOSTIC means to not know. In effect he is saying you can go exterior but your going to have to do it my way and pay through the nose to do it. Just a few more intensives and those troublesome BT's. Let's just see how much dev t we can get on the lines here.

The one thing you cannot do in Scientology is use your own mind and native abilities to go exterior and stay that way. LRH developed hundreds of techniques that will work for going exterior but they have to be used in conjunction with MEDITATION.
Myself I like Black and White and rising needle processing done with a VOM meter.
There is whole web site on that and it is really simple.

"Seek within thine own self-illuminated, self originated mind whence, firstly, all such concepts arise, secondly, where they exist, and lastly wither they vanish."

Padma Sambhava~The Seeing of Reality

When they do vanish well there you are, sitting pretty as you please, EXTERIOR as the Awareness of Awareness Looking at what is Looking.


88grailer
 

DagwoodGum

Squirreling Dervish
I don't get it, How can anyone reading this thread have not figured out yet that's it's nothing but a state of hypnotic trance?
Because some of us actually had the exteriorization experience prior to encountering Ron-Droids. He just piggy backed onto the phenomenon as he couldn't cause it in a pc, certainly never in me. I've left my body on just a few occasions and encountered free beings on a couple of others. Has nothing to do with any fraudulent endeavor nor fraudulent people such as Elron.
 

LongTimeGone

Silver Meritorious Patron
Hi All,

Certainly an interesting thread here. I have always found it interesting to compare what LRON said about exteriorization with what was known and developed by other cultures and systems about the subject. I consider that Exteriorization is valuable in and of itself because it constitutes a form of proof to the practioner who goes exterior and takes a look at people, places and things from this new perspective. When and if one can do this the proof is the existance of eternity.

The bare minimum condition necessary for exteriorization is to have the Spirit in charge of the Body and the Mind. Four well known schools of thought stress the importance of who's in charge: Scio. Taosim Indian Yoga and AA. With the Spirit in charge of the Body and the Mind the experience of Exteriorization becomes possible.
This is not to say that many systems don't flirt with Exteriorization. Many do but it is not a primary goal. For example in the Catholic Church Padre Pio, Meister Eckhard and St. Francis went Exterior as needed or wanted.

It is a two terminal universe here (R.B. Fuller) The Thetan (Yuan Chen) is one terminal and the Body is the other. (1st ACC). The Secret of The Golden Flower (Ti I Chin Hau Tsung Chi) says that it will take 100 day to go exterior. Exteriorization is the goal of this text. Exteriorization is accomplished by bringing the G.E. (Tan Tien)under good control. When this is accomplished on the right gradient (The one that works.) the Spirit is back in charge of the Body and the Mind and the correct order is restored. One sees that one IS the diamond body and now you know what real order is. The real order is what you see and may be somewhat different that what LRH and CofS specked out so exteriorization became a somewhat low priority item.

The same text also say that back in the day (11th Millenium and prior there to) only fools did not know these practices. The people having lost their roots cling to the tree tops is what the text says. Evidently the situation is somewhat worse these days as many people question if there are tree tops to cling to.

A teacher I knew Detong Cho Yin used to say that if you want to become enlightened you have to study the works of those who became enlightened. An important point to duplicate. Not only that but I have to develop a practice that leads to goal of Exteriorization. If I have never gone exterior and have no way to get there I have good reason to suspect that all the claims about exteriorization are completely bogus.

Most certainly the first step in the process is to get the Spirit back in charge of the Body and the Mind and then remain in this fit spiritual condition. Is this ARC, good control, good com, becomming Theta the solver of problems...sure, of course it is all of that and more and on the right gradient to boot and in PT. What do I care if all I can do is the best I can do today when it makes me happy and helpfull today to do it. Isn't it obvious that there is no downside to a process that brings about the unobscured shinning of Theta for all living things? When your looking at what is looking the works gettin done and when your not it is just the accumulation of more incompleted cycles of action.

There is an interesting line in the Hau HU Ching by Lao Tzu: 'We are the energies to which we connect ourselves.' The Thetan longs to be connected again to the highest, the sweetest and the best, it can never be satisfied by anything less as Meister Eckhard said. It has been a long road since the departure in Incident 1 ...count it all joy that it is possible to find a way back.

You know, I clearly remember suffering with the poet who said...

Poor little children,
lost and afraid
who have never
been happy or good

W.H. Auden

In those days I thought that conditions were fixed
and I maintained that viewpoint untill I went exterior
and found myself out in the Galaxy somewhere with the
bodhisattva Manjusri. That changed my viewpoint which
lead me to the conclusion that the best way to change
a viewpoint is to get another one. I could not get Buddhism
to work for me so I went into Scientology. I went exterior on
the Grades, co-auditing Dianetics 55 on my own with a friend
as I could not get Flag interested in that one and I knew it
would work. The longest I have been able to stay exterior
is 3 days. Of course the fixed conditions are long gone,
Buddism works fine for me, so does Scio, Taoism, AA, Patanjali,
if it works it is good and thats that.

What with all LRH had to say about subjects that were no more than nomenclatures and Sciences that never progressed and just went over and over the same data, I have to ask where all the new Scientology Data is on Exteriorization. What with the Congresses, The Basics, The Acc's everything pretty much out in the open, see you would have to think that folks would be going exterior like crazy but this thread does not indicate that. Not a lot of new, practical info on the subject. The right info in the wrong hands, goes nowhere.

It has been 60 years since the release of the 1st ACC. It does not seem to me that everyone in Scio. is a Black 5. During the preceeding Kali Yuga it would be expected that the teachings would be degraded, or boobytrapped or whatever. But now it is the Satya Yuga and it just seems foolish not to know how to go exterior.

I would like to suggest that main problem with the Scientology Data on Exteriorization is that it cannot be evaluated by Obnosis. LRH made it verboten to use Obnosis on Exteriorization. He did this by forbidding the practice of MEDITATION. MEDITATION stabalizes EXTERIORIZATION. If I cannot hold the two terminals apart I cannot achieve stable exteriorization. I am going to have to use OBNOSIS to achieve GNOSIS.

Think about this for a minute. I am going to have to put the Spirit back in charge of my mind and my body to get the job done. Lets say the swing vote is the mind so I am going to have get it under good control. I am going to have to use LOOKING to do that. As a thetan I am going to have to look at this mind I created and see what it is. By so doing I achieve KNOWINGNESS (GNOSIS).

By making meditation verboten LRH pushed everyone into a state of NOT KNOW or AGNOSTICISM. AGNOSTIC means to not know. In effect he is saying you can go exterior but your going to have to do it my way and pay through the nose to do it. Just a few more intensives and those troublesome BT's. Let's just see how much dev t we can get on the lines here.

The one thing you cannot do in Scientology is use your own mind and native abilities to go exterior and stay that way. LRH developed hundreds of techniques that will work for going exterior but they have to be used in conjunction with MEDITATION.
Myself I like Black and White and rising needle processing done with a VOM meter.
There is whole web site on that and it is really simple.

"Seek within thine own self-illuminated, self originated mind whence, firstly, all such concepts arise, secondly, where they exist, and lastly wither they vanish."

Padma Sambhava~The Seeing of Reality

When they do vanish well there you are, sitting pretty as you please, EXTERIOR as the Awareness of Awareness Looking at what is Looking.


88grailer

Welcome 88grailer.

I'll have to take your word for all of the above.

How long were you with the cult?

Are you stably exterior with full perception?

LTG
 

SchwimmelPuckel

Genuine Meatball
<snip> The bare minimum condition necessary for exteriorization is to have the Spirit in charge of the Body and the Mind. Four well known schools of thought stress the importance of who's in charge: Scio. Taosim Indian Yoga and AA. <snip>
Hmm.. That IS a very 'reasonable' and favorable view of Scientology doctrine.. But yes, 'you' in charge of you mind and body is pimped as the product Scientology has to offer..

However: 'You', as a spirit or whatever, will NOT be allowed to be in charge of anything in Scientology! - Not your life, not what you want to do or when or where, not your money! - There's registrars and '8C' (Scientology code for manhandling you to cough up the money or stay a slave for a billion years..)

The alluring 'goal' of you, as a spirit, in charge of your mind and body is not expected to happen before you are 'clear'.. And when you are 'clear' it's revealed that you can't expect it to happen before you are OT. - It is not even apparent that you will be 'in charge as a spirit of you mind and body' when you have reached the highest OT level available.

Welcome to ESMB anyway! :)
 
Re: Stably exterior with full perception (well, not stably)

FWIW, here's an exteriorization experience I had one time. It left me with unanswered questions.

Round about the time of my OT levels (many years ago) I moved to a new flat. I had a friend staying over so I slept on the settee. During the night I became aware but I didn't know where I was. Nothing looked the way it looks with the body's eyes - objects seemed to be made out of light that glowed softly so everything looked very strange to me. Eventually I realised I was looking at a large wardrobe so I knew I was on the landing. There was no emotion involved in this at all. I was just aware and curious and interested.

Suddenly I 'knew' that my body was waking up and the thought that it would wake up without me was absolutely horrifying. I just had to get back in the body while it was still asleep. I don't know why this was so, it just was. Unfortunately I had no idea where my body was and at this point I was utterly panic-stricken. And then I located it on the settee and was moving back inside as the body woke up. The relief was overwhelming. I remember entering through my forehead and feeling safe, like I'd come home. There was a satisfied, smug feeling, almost like "gotcha".

The thing I find curious in retrospect is when I was exterior and the body was sleeping I was completely fearless and had no interest in the body at all. It was only when it started waking up that the emotions appeared. So were the emotions coming from the body and was the body pulling me in somehow? Was it the body that was terrified of waking up without me, rather than me that was terrifed of not getting back into the body?
 
I have never seen a cord during any exteriorization practices I have used in the past....or in any lifetime I can recall.


BUT there must me something to it if so many claim to view it. ...

No, Hat, all that it implies is that those individuals who 'see' such an image associate a 'connection' between what they consider 'themselves' to be with that which they consider to be their body by means of such a concept. Whether that representation has a reality beyond being a consideration of such persons remains indeterminate.


Mark A. Baker
 

Jachs

Gold Meritorious Patron
Hi All,
It is a two terminal universe here (R.B. Fuller)


The Thetan (Yuan Chen) is one terminal and the Body is the other. (1st ACC).

Yuan Chen may refer to:
Yuan Zhen (779–831), Chinese poet
Yuan Chen (abbot), abbot of the Jade Buddha Temple, Shanghai, China, until 1942


88grailer; said:
The Secret of The Golden Flower (Ti I Chin Hau Tsung Chi) says that it will take 100 day to go exterior. Exteriorization is the goal of this text.

The Secret of the Golden Flower ("Tai Yi Jin Hua Zong Zhi",), a Chinese Taoist book about meditation, was translated by Richard Wilhelm (also translator, in the 1920s, of the Chinese philosophical classic the I Ching). Wilhelm, a friend of Carl Jung, was German, and his translations from Chinese to German were later translated to English by Cary F. Baynes.

88grailer; said:
Exteriorization is accomplished by bringing the G.E. (Tan Tien)under good control.

Is this the interpretation of the GE, there are 3 of them?

Different schools of thought categorise dantian in various manners. For example, according to principles of Chinese alchemy, there are three dantians in the body.

The upper dantian is in the brain just behind a point directly between the eyebrows and corresponds to the third eye. In Western anatomy, this point corresponds to the pituitary gland.[1][3] This is copied from the indian concept of chakras (central points through which prana is stored, see also nadis

The middle dantian is in the heart and in Western anatomy is associated with the thymus gland.

The lower dantian is located 1.3 inches, or 3 finger widths, below the navel and is also called the golden stove.[4]


Dantian, dan t'ian, dan tien or tan t'ien dantian literally "cinnabar or red field") is loosely translated as "elixir field". It is described as an important focal point for internal meditative techniques.[/QUOTE]



The same text also say that back in the day (11th Millenium and prior there to) only fools did not know these practices.

The same text? Ti I Chin Hau Tsung Chi?

A teacher I knew Detong Cho Yin used to say that if you want to become enlightened you have to study the works of those who became enlightened.
An important point to duplicate. Not only that but I have to develop a practice that leads to goal of Exteriorization.

Buddhist Path and Detong Cho Yin (1995)
Movie -Buddhist nun Detong Cho Yin explains the complete path to Buddhist enlightenment in this clear and detailed six hour program. Programs include: "Karma & Reincarnation," "Meditation," "Enlightenment," "Creation," "Emptiness" and "The Mandala."

I liked the Buddhist saying-to know the road ahead ask those coming back, but that Detong Cho Yin tops it, as in CoS you are restrained from discovering the endarkened buddha Ron in his closed curtain bluebird motorhome.


What with all LRH had to say about subjects that were no more than nomenclatures and Sciences that never progressed and just went over and over the same data, I have to ask where all the new Scientology Data is on Exteriorization. What with the Congresses, The Basics, The Acc's everything pretty much out in the open, see you would have to think that folks would be going exterior like crazy but this thread does not indicate that. Not a lot of new, practical info on the subject. The right info in the wrong hands, goes nowhere.
Like you say its GNOSIS ,Knowing not doing. basics congresses, ACC 99% significance.

It has been 60 years since the release of the 1st ACC. It does not seem to me that everyone in Scio. is a Black 5.

During the preceeding Kali Yuga it would be expected that the teachings would be degraded, or boobytrapped or whatever. But now it is the Satya Yuga and it just seems foolish not to know how to go exterior.

Kali Yuga : (Devanāgarī: कलियुग [kəli juɡə], lit. "age of (the male demon) Kali", or "age of vice") is the last of the four stages that the world goes through as part of the cycle of yugas described in the Indian scriptures.

Scientology seems to been Degraded & booby trapped with heavy gnosis contrary overwhelm significance throughout, HOM, congresses, tech 88, SHSBC, Hubbard was compulsive in presenting his Ego and his Majestic history.


I am going to have to use OBNOSIS to achieve GNOSIS.

88grailer

Hi 88grailer good information from sources i hadnt heard of, can you give any more info on this material Books, links articles to get the Gnosis
 
WARNING - WALL OF TEXT!!!



I couldn't decide whether to start a new thread or revive this older one. I'm just not sure what the exact etiquette is...

I wanted to share a couple experiences and thoughts.

Getting out of this body seems like it has always been a priority for me. My earliest memories of this drive manifesting itself is me sitting on my bed calmly trying to back out of my body when I was about five. Later, in 6-7th grade I came across Robert Monroe's work and started educating myself on astral projection and OBEs. I was so excited that someone else had already explored this thing that I didnt realize was 'normal.' Normal in the sense that I was not the only one who felt this way or realized that they too weren't bodies. I always found it peculiar when the body would become ill. I would always laugh because thats when I noticed most that I wasn't it. It was sick, I wasn't. the more it suffered the more I laughed because its like the distinction was more clear.

I had a dianetics book delivered to my door by some persistent book seller and I felt like I had found the answer. I walked into my first org (orlando) and told them I needed to go clear as described in this book (I was holding up the dianetics book) so I could get out of my body. They tried to sell me immediately on scientology and I told them I didn't need all that crap, if I could just get rid of some of these hidden incidents I would be able to get out on my own. After a few hours of dianetics and hanging out at the org for a few days over the next couple of weeks and I was on the bridge excited about getting out.

My first exteriorization experience was more of a "becoming something else" experience. It was on ARC objective (look around here and find something really real, you wouldn't mind being around, you wouldn't mind communicating with). I actually BECAME a bucket for a few seconds. It was the most awesome thing that had ever occurred to me at that point. The next time was the most profound for me...

The next time was in grade zero. I was coming close to the last few hours I had on account and the process was in the area of hidden things (spot something hidden or something such). The auditor was catching up on some admin during session ( just a few seconds) and I was feeling funny. I asked him if it was ok if I exteriorized (I was worried about all the big FNs that we had to break for - I hated taking a break for anything). I think I had spotted myself as 'hidden.' He seemed puzzled and said "sure" and went back to writing his notes but he glanced at the meter and did a double take at the meter and then followed up with "why?" and I explained I didn't want session to stop. After comm-ing with me a bit on it I felt comfortable and fully exterioized.

I laughed for five minutes and could do nothing but laugh for five minutes. Here I was, exterior and still connected to the body, sort of. He was trying to get me out of the room to go to the examiner and was having trouble getting me to move. I was afraid to try and stand up, I was afraid of trying to make the body do anything - I was afraid it wouldn't work or that I would go back in if I tried to make it move.

He finally started to get a bit perturbed so I decided to try and stand... It worked! much more laughing! It was incredible! It was like I had a bit of dual perception - mine wasn't very good, it was like I was aware of spaces and people but the body perception just solidified everything for me. My body was a pet! It was funny that I never wore my seatbelt but I put it on for that drive home - I had to take of this thing! Seems hard to describe. My personal perception diminished over the next few days as I was still focused on body perception to get it around and work etc.

I spent about 6 magical weeks exterior. The body worked so much better without me in it. It slept better, was more regular, a few minor aches were no more. I worked so much better not being influenced by it any more. I was so much more social, so many anxieties gone, I was so much more interested in others! Life was so easy - there were no problems just situations that I dealt with quickly and without the usual figure-figure.

After a few weeks the break in reality with my wife was so great I came to the realization I had to leave her as she was never interested and could never see my point of view. I simply decided to tell her so. Well the fountain works started and I found myself wobbly and crashed back in. :(

I've never re-achieved that state in full strength and duration. The church really started to screw things up at that point (or I did so I wouldn't get out and break everyone's heart anymore). After another 150 hours I was done with scientology.

I've been out several times since then but never the same magnitude. I've read several people's ideas about what it takes and different rundowns designed for that purpose but it always seemed those processes hit too far away from the foundations of the problem (most fosued on space and old locations and int/ext). Though I have exteriorized several friends with just "Get the idea you have to have a body. Get the idea you have to avoid having a body."

The problem seems to be breaking my 'identification' with the body. We have all had things we 'know' (usually just intellectually) but then we cog on something that makes what we 'know' so much more real and we 'know' it at a whole new level. I'm going to find someone to start putting in the hours on CCHs and Objective until this is more consistently real for me (I am not a body). That is always what happens when I do get out. I become so much more aware that I control it, that I am not it. I find it becomes an obedient pet. It stops fidgetting and seems to become so much more deliberate, calm? It's hard to describe. It's like things from me quit bleeding into it where it becomes expressed as a fidget - does that make sense?

It seems the first step for anyone getting out should be the thorough examination of the fact that they are the ones moving the body, it obeys them, it is not them. Working on things like spacation and old places you are stuck seems like something for more stability maybe higher up but doesn't the foundation seem like it should be a certain high level of certainty and high constant awareness of the fact that you aren't it? I think this is why the old way of doing CCH produced so many exteriorizations, you ran it and the more people found out they were in control of the body the more they realized they weren't it!

After that, for me, I think I need to work on the whole hidden thing and being seen. Spotting myself as something 'hidden' when I had my first major exteriorization really hit home. I was hiding. I've seen alot of material on why but basicly this needs cleaned up. "what problem would hiding be a solution to?" and "Spot something hidden" seem like good starts in this area. I need to do some more research into this and how best to solve it. "What would happen if you were seen?"

After that it seems like body sensation/perception is what really needs dealt with next. After that first big exteriorization my perception diminished quickly, I believe, because I was still so constantly focused on on the body. It is such a handy cap and crutch. it is also course and loud in comparison to my own perceptions, like listening listening to a whispered conversation (my perceptions) over the concert of white noise constantly going on (body perceptions). Sensation really seems like a glue, or drug. The one time a ran "have to have/ have to avoid having" on body sensations I quickly found myself being torn apart, like fighting an addiction I know is bad for me. Trying to stay away but not able to because it makes other stuff go away. If I can keep this loud body game going I don't have to worry about what I know is really there.

Anyway... I'm not very well trained. I've read alot but still find the application of so many things to be like stumbling around. So I'm just coming back from a bunch of BPC I picked up trying to run things on myself last summer and I am finding my interest returning. If I were to find I had a week of life left this would be my regret- that I didn't do enough to solve the problem of being forced to have a body.

I think I'm going to try and keep it very simple this time:
CCHs & Objectives to really raise the awareness and distinction of self/body
work on hidden/being seen
work on the glue/addiction of sensation


Thanks for the feedback guys

Quasi



P.S. I do believe I was forced to have a body. I think it was one of the reasons I was so driven for so long on the subject, just operating on my last strongest desire "to not have a body." My reality currently is that they beat you until having a body is a step up. But that's the trap - there is no more up to go to from there. if you are a body where do you go from there?
 

Veda

Sponsor
WARNING - WALL OF TEXT!!!



I couldn't decide whether to start a new thread or revive this older one. I'm just not sure what the exact etiquette is...

I wanted to share a couple experiences and thoughts.

Getting out of this body seems like it has always been a priority for me. My earliest memories of this drive manifesting itself is me sitting on my bed calmly trying to back out of my body when I was about five. Later, in 6-7th grade I came across Robert Monroe's work and started educating myself on astral projection and OBEs. I was so excited that someone else had already explored this thing that I didnt realize was 'normal.' Normal in the sense that I was not the only one who felt this way or realized that they too weren't bodies. I always found it peculiar when the body would become ill. I would always laugh because thats when I noticed most that I wasn't it. It was sick, I wasn't. the more it suffered the more I laughed because its like the distinction was more clear.

I had a dianetics book delivered to my door by some persistent book seller and I felt like I had found the answer. I walked into my first org (orlando) and told them I needed to go clear as described in this book (I was holding up the dianetics book) so I could get out of my body. They tried to sell me immediately on scientology and I told them I didn't need all that crap, if I could just get rid of some of these hidden incidents I would be able to get out on my own. After a few hours of dianetics and hanging out at the org for a few days over the next couple of weeks and I was on the bridge excited about getting out.

My first exteriorization experience was more of a "becoming something else" experience. It was on ARC objective (look around here and find something really real, you wouldn't mind being around, you wouldn't mind communicating with). I actually BECAME a bucket for a few seconds. It was the most awesome thing that had ever occurred to me at that point. The next time was the most profound for me...

The next time was in grade zero. I was coming close to the last few hours I had on account and the process was in the area of hidden things (spot something hidden or something such). The auditor was catching up on some admin during session ( just a few seconds) and I was feeling funny. I asked him if it was ok if I exteriorized (I was worried about all the big FNs that we had to break for - I hated taking a break for anything). I think I had spotted myself as 'hidden.' He seemed puzzled and said "sure" and went back to writing his notes but he glanced at the meter and did a double take at the meter and then followed up with "why?" and I explained I didn't want session to stop. After comm-ing with me a bit on it I felt comfortable and fully exterioized.

I laughed for five minutes and could do nothing but laugh for five minutes. Here I was, exterior and still connected to the body, sort of. He was trying to get me out of the room to go to the examiner and was having trouble getting me to move. I was afraid to try and stand up, I was afraid of trying to make the body do anything - I was afraid it wouldn't work or that I would go back in if I tried to make it move.

He finally started to get a bit perturbed so I decided to try and stand... It worked! much more laughing! It was incredible! It was like I had a bit of dual perception - mine wasn't very good, it was like I was aware of spaces and people but the body perception just solidified everything for me. My body was a pet! It was funny that I never wore my seatbelt but I put it on for that drive home - I had to take of this thing! Seems hard to describe. My personal perception diminished over the next few days as I was still focused on body perception to get it around and work etc.

I spent about 6 magical weeks exterior. The body worked so much better without me in it. It slept better, was more regular, a few minor aches were no more. I worked so much better not being influenced by it any more. I was so much more social, so many anxieties gone, I was so much more interested in others! Life was so easy - there were no problems just situations that I dealt with quickly and without the usual figure-figure.

After a few weeks the break in reality with my wife was so great I came to the realization I had to leave her as she was never interested and could never see my point of view. I simply decided to tell her so. Well the fountain works started and I found myself wobbly and crashed back in. :(

I've never re-achieved that state in full strength and duration. The church really started to screw things up at that point (or I did so I wouldn't get out and break everyone's heart anymore). After another 150 hours I was done with scientology.

I've been out several times since then but never the same magnitude. I've read several people's ideas about what it takes and different rundowns designed for that purpose but it always seemed those processes hit too far away from the foundations of the problem (most fosued on space and old locations and int/ext). Though I have exteriorized several friends with just "Get the idea you have to have a body. Get the idea you have to avoid having a body."

The problem seems to be breaking my 'identification' with the body. We have all had things we 'know' (usually just intellectually) but then we cog on something that makes what we 'know' so much more real and we 'know' it at a whole new level. I'm going to find someone to start putting in the hours on CCHs and Objective until this is more consistently real for me (I am not a body). That is always what happens when I do get out. I become so much more aware that I control it, that I am not it. I find it becomes an obedient pet. It stops fidgetting and seems to become so much more deliberate, calm? It's hard to describe. It's like things from me quit bleeding into it where it becomes expressed as a fidget - does that make sense?

It seems the first step for anyone getting out should be the thorough examination of the fact that they are the ones moving the body, it obeys them, it is not them. Working on things like spacation and old places you are stuck seems like something for more stability maybe higher up but doesn't the foundation seem like it should be a certain high level of certainty and high constant awareness of the fact that you aren't it? I think this is why the old way of doing CCH produced so many exteriorizations, you ran it and the more people found out they were in control of the body the more they realized they weren't it!

After that, for me, I think I need to work on the whole hidden thing and being seen. Spotting myself as something 'hidden' when I had my first major exteriorization really hit home. I was hiding. I've seen alot of material on why but basicly this needs cleaned up. "what problem would hiding be a solution to?" and "Spot something hidden" seem like good starts in this area. I need to do some more research into this and how best to solve it. "What would happen if you were seen?"

After that it seems like body sensation/perception is what really needs dealt with next. After that first big exteriorization my perception diminished quickly, I believe, because I was still so constantly focused on on the body. It is such a handy cap and crutch. it is also course and loud in comparison to my own perceptions, like listening listening to a whispered conversation (my perceptions) over the concert of white noise constantly going on (body perceptions). Sensation really seems like a glue, or drug. The one time a ran "have to have/ have to avoid having" on body sensations I quickly found myself being torn apart, like fighting an addiction I know is bad for me. Trying to stay away but not able to because it makes other stuff go away. If I can keep this loud body game going I don't have to worry about what I know is really there.

Anyway... I'm not very well trained. I've read alot but still find the application of so many things to be like stumbling around. So I'm just coming back from a bunch of BPC I picked up trying to run things on myself last summer and I am finding my interest returning. If I were to find I had a week of life left this would be my regret- that I didn't do enough to solve the problem of being forced to have a body.

I think I'm going to try and keep it very simple this time:
CCHs & Objectives to really raise the awareness and distinction of self/body
work on hidden/being seen
work on the glue/addiction of sensation

Thanks for the feedback guys

Quasi

P.S. I do believe I was forced to have a body. I think it was one of the reasons I was so driven for so long on the subject, just operating on my last strongest desire "to not have a body." My reality currently is that they beat you until having a body is a step up. But that's the trap - there is no more up to go to from there. if you are a body where do you go from there?

chakra%20pss.jpg


"My eye was single, and my body (not the physical body) was filled with light."...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK2m7rYjZ54

Sylvan Muldoon was an early explorer of the astral realm, and lucid dreaming. Hubbard said nothing about lucid dreaming (becoming conscious - waking up - in "dreams"), and ridiculed the idea of an astral body, but mastering the use of the astral body may be a "skipped gradient" in Scientology.

The natural progression would be separation of the astral body from the physical body, then separation of the light-body from the astral body.

image034.jpg


A depiction of the astral body separating during sleep:

out_of_body_man.gif


There's a vast amount of material on these and related subjects, and I wish the search function on ESMB worked better, so finding posts and threads on these areas was easier.

Here's one thread that may have been left out of the many links (and links within links) provided a page or so back:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?21354-Religion-Spirituality-After-Leaving-Scientology

Hope this helps.
 

GoNuclear

Gold Meritorious Patron
WARNING - WALL OF TEXT!!!



I couldn't decide whether to start a new thread or revive this older one. I'm just not sure what the exact etiquette is...

P.S. I do believe I was forced to have a body. I think it was one of the reasons I was so driven for so long on the subject, just operating on my last strongest desire "to not have a body." My reality currently is that they beat you until having a body is a step up. But that's the trap - there is no more up to go to from there. if you are a body where do you go from there?

What you did was commit an act of thread necromancy. There are those who see no problem with that, while others frown upon it. Regardless, your post was intriguing.

One of the things about going exterior/not being a body/operating a body ... the body has to have some sort of mechanism whereby a being can control it, but nothing in Scientology, at least not that I have read and I have read a pretty fair amount, seems to address this topic. Would like to know your take on that.

Pete
 

Idle Morgue

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yes Tans, I believe the "glossy promo" and promises of levels of awareness not ever before known to man by the Hubbturd enticed most of us. I NEVER SAW ANYONE who had any abilities except to NOT TALK, NOT THINK rationally, act strange, be strange and do strange things - like join staff, give all of their money to the CULT. The Co$ uses mind control and we all are vulnerable to the tactics. Check out the mind control books! Hubbturd used THELEMA, O.T.O. and Napolean Hill as his resourses. Napolean Hill has all of the OT stuff and you can get any of his books and do the excercises and it is free and it WORKS!

I have to say that now that I am no longer :banghead: banging my head against the wall trying to "achieve" the Bridge to total no where...and I am OUT of the Organization, my mind is working the way it is intended. I can now see the "snake oil" I was sold - I can now see the fraud of these claims.

The question I asked myself for the past three years is "what do I see happening with the people that have achieved Oatee Ate, completed the Loser Run downs - L's - have gotten trained only to have their certs nullified and they have to pay again and start over - Golden Age of FRAUD?"

Once I took a real hard look and was honest and straight with myself with no one telling me to justifying the "broken pieces", "you don't know where they started etc, I saw that I had my gains early on in the Cult and to involve myself further was simply a MIND FUCK of EPIC proportions!:omg:

We are given a mind that is not suppose to remember pain and unconsciousness - it is intended to shut off but simply leave some type of a recording so we can use that information to SURVIVE. :yes: Don't get rid of that! Learn to use the mind to help yourself and others! Not destroy yourself and take everyone down around you!

When you give your last dime to Miss Cabbage for his legal slush fund and you are broke and bankrupt, that HURTS! When a Reg comes around, you will be :stickpoke:reminded (by your reactive mind) to get the hell out of the building or you may destroy yourself! And most of us RUN LIKE HELL! REG=PAIN!:nervous: That is the truth!

I think I will keep that part of my mind functioning at full capacity!:eyeroll:

It is a total fraud! It is a CULT! There is no bridge! There is no humanitarian efforts to do anything except cannibalize the members for $ and time!:yes:
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
There's a vast amount of material on these and related subjects, and I wish the search function on ESMB worked better, so finding posts and threads on these areas was easier.

Google isn't too bad if you use the "site:exscn.net" limiter, although I don't know how to limit the search to one person's posts only.

Paul
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
I think I'm going to try and keep it very simple this time:
CCHs & Objectives to really raise the awareness and distinction of self/body
work on hidden/being seen
work on the glue/addiction of sensation

Try it from the top down instead of the bottom up.

You might have fun with something like the RAW4 module at PaulsRobot3 (http://paulsrobot3.com/woowoo/raw4). Download the whole thing to your own computer to avoid audio latency issues with my cheap-ass hosting company.

Paul
 
What you did was commit an act of thread necromancy. There are those who see no problem with that, while others frown upon it. Regardless, your post was intriguing.

One of the things about going exterior/not being a body/operating a body ... the body has to have some sort of mechanism whereby a being can control it, but nothing in Scientology, at least not that I have read and I have read a pretty fair amount, seems to address this topic. Would like to know your take on that.

Pete


Two things here:

1. When I first fully exteriorized with limited perception I was afraid to try and move my body. I was obviously still very connected to it as I was laughing so hard and was still very much perceiving with it. I was afraid that trying to move would disrupt something. But if found it obeyed but it was very different, like there was lag. It was alot like a very obedient dog. I remember noticing during the CCHs how I noticed I was giving the hand, I noticed I was making the hand go. It was the first step to breaking the identification. Most of us move our bodies around daily but in a state of identification with it. That breaking of identification the CCHs seem to bring brought a distinction - like there is a robot on the other side of some glass and your body is hooked up to wires that translate your movements to the robot and its interesting to see your movements translate to a machine on the other side. I don't know all the details of how I'm doing it in the first place but thats what it seems like when i exterioize - like I'm seeing this thing respond to me.

I hope that makes sense - i think part two here may make that more clear.

2. When I'm out the body doesn't fidget like a dog that interested in everything around it and paying very little attention to you. It is more like an obedient dog that doesn't make a move without taking a que from you.

My theory on that is that being so far removed from it and not identified with it it also is no longer identified with you. Like all my extraneous and random thoughts were producing motion when I was in/identified but when out of it only my deliberate intentions for motion were manifested.

I think we have all achieved states of calm at one time or another where we seem at peace and have noticed how we act a little more differently and our physical mannerisms change. I think we have quieted our mind and our body has less to react to from us.

I hope I'm getting this across.

I've been told many times that I seem to have a 'sphere' of influence where I change something in the air/ether? in my immediate environment. Not in that my mannerisms are conveying my mood but in that the air can actually seem heavier and lighter. An energy field maybe, that has more influence on things around than people notice from most others?

Well I believe this is something we use to actually control our bodies. I remember reading, not too long ago, on our thoughts affecting our dna. Something to the effect of affecting changes in samples of our genetic material over a long distance. So maybe we 'tune' to our bodies dna and there after some simply form of energy in us causes a response? As we develop from infants with no control we 'learn' what thoughts/energies cause specific movements? Kind of like they are doing with brainwave devices they use now to control video games HERE. People 'learn' with experience how to change their thoughts to cause the machine to do what they want.

So when we are in it it picks up all the extraneous thoughts and acts on them (fidgeting) and when we are out only the deliberate ones are strong enough to effect an action response.

I think I may have gone off base from what you asked but thats my best shot.

If I can find the links to the other studies about our moods affecting change in our dna, even dna that has been removed from us and seperated by distance. I'll post them.

Quasi
 
Thoughts affecting genes results in several hits but not the one I was thinking of where they showed that it did this across a distance too. Like our genes were a code our thoughts are tuned to.
 
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