Rathbun's book - REVIEWS!

[Jquepublic]

I don't see it as PR. I see it as blatant lying. Anyone that has studied OT III (and the theory of the non-interference zone which provides the rational and need for OT II as well) should be able to see that he is completely squirreling - i.e. altering the tech.

Any true believer should have the balls to just stand up and say - yep, that's what it is and there's a reason why it's needed and you'd have to study the subject to fully understand why.

Marty aside from being a liar and abuser, is also a squirrel. LOL, he deserves the "Squirrel Busters"

That's exactly what makes it interesting!

 

[Gottabrain]

Well, I'm going to state something here that may come as a shock to all of those who know me as a fully out ex. I am still fully out, btw, but a recent experience has given me a far deeper respect and understanding for some of the beliefs and practices of Freezoners.

Marty's book is useless to me. He has altered many historical events to support his own self-delusions and completely fabricated others through unreliable stories with his own spin on them. He wasn't on the front lines to personally know much of the information he claims and has given it all a "this is what must have happened" claimed as fact to support his beliefs.

Re. OT3 - I am certain we have certain circuits/automaticities or whatnot that can even, in some cases, eventually take on the aspect of personalities. However, I don't see any use for OT3 in dealing with these beyond spotting them as "not mine", and seasoned counselors of any faith or practice will agree that the best time to address what is wrong with a person is when they are socked into the problem.

I recently resolved a huge emotional hangup by spotting "where" it was coming from in the middle of a major family emotional crisis and that it was "not mine". Yes, it blew. Completely. It was also, perhaps, the biggest resolution of my life and how I was better able to deal with my life afterwards from this - permanently. I was wracked with painful sorrow - an OLD painful sorrow - until I did this. I still felt sad (from the circumstances), but it was a normal sort of sad, if that makes sense. The hangup or whatever you might call it was gone. One I had carried with me most of my life.

Never, in all of OT3 or all my hours on OT4 was there even the shadow of this sort of resolution. Never in all of Scientology, actually.

It did not require contacting past lives. It did not require running "characters" or "personalities" or "incidents" or any of that and I highly doubt any of that is or ever was necessary or would have done any good.

The OT levels are bullshit. But from my experience, there is substantial relief to be had from simply spotting the "where" and "not mine" of emotional and other circuitry/automaticities (NOT BTs, though L Ron called them that) while fully experiencing one's own problems.

I'm sharing this now for the sake of those who can be helped by it. Fuck OT3, but automaticities that can seem to have a life of their own DO exist. I think everyone is capable of resolving their own, though.

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

I don't see it as PR. I see it as blatant lying. Anyone that has studied OT III (and the theory of the non-interference zone which provides the rational and need for OT II as well) should be able to see that he is completely squirreling - i.e. altering the tech.

Any true believer should have the balls to just stand up and say - yep, that's what it is and there's a reason why it's needed and you'd have to study the subject to fully understand why.

Marty aside from being a liar and abuser, is also a squirrel. LOL, he deserves the "Squirrel Busters"

Marty is basically the latest member of Hubbard's cult who got tossed out of the cult by Miscaviage, and decided to set up shop in the 'freezone' playing ... my version batshit crazy is better than your version of batshit crazy.

Now maybe to an aficionado or connoisseur of batshit crazy there may be a difference, however to the other six billion plus people on the planet it's all just filed under batshit crazy

 

[PirateAndBum]

Marty is basically the latest member of Hubbard's cult who got tossed out of the cult by Miscaviage, and decided to set up shop in the 'freezone' playing ... my version batshit crazy is better than your version of batshit crazy.

Now maybe to an aficionado or connoisseur of batshit crazy there may be a difference, however to the other six billion plus people on the planet it's all just filed under batshit crazy

LOL, and they think the rest of the world is bat-shit crazy, so it's all bat-shit crazy here.

 

[PirateAndBum]

Well, I'm going to state something here that may come as a shock to all of those who know me as a fully out ex. I am still fully out, btw, but a recent experience has given me a far deeper respect and understanding for some of the beliefs and practices of Freezoners.

Marty's book is useless to me. He has altered many historical events to support his own self-delusions and completely fabricated others through unreliable stories with his own spin on them. He wasn't on the front lines to personally know much of the information he claims and has given it all a "this is what must have happened" claimed as fact to support his beliefs.

Re. OT3 - I am certain we have certain circuits/automaticities or whatnot that can even, in some cases, eventually take on the aspect of personalities. However, I don't see any use for OT3 in dealing with these beyond spotting them as "not mine", and seasoned counselors of any faith or practice will agree that the best time to address what is wrong with a person is when they are socked into the problem.

I recently resolved a huge emotional hangup by spotting "where" it was coming from in the middle of a major family emotional crisis and that it was "not mine". Yes, it blew. Completely. It was also, perhaps, the biggest resolution of my life and how I was better able to deal with my life afterwards from this - permanently. I was wracked with painful sorrow - an OLD painful sorrow - until I did this. I still felt sad (from the circumstances), but it was a normal sort of sad, if that makes sense. The hangup or whatever you might call it was gone. One I had carried with me most of my life.

Never, in all of OT3 or all my hours on OT4 was there even the shadow of this sort of resolution. Never in all of Scientology, actually.

It did not require contacting past lives. It did not require running "characters" or "personalities" or "incidents" or any of that and I highly doubt any of that is or ever was necessary or would have done any good.

The OT levels are bullshit. But from my experience, there is substantial relief to be had from simply spotting the "where" and "not mine" of emotional and other circuitry/automaticities (NOT BTs, though L Ron called them that) while fully experiencing one's own problems.

I'm sharing this now for the sake of those who can be helped by it. Fuck OT3, but automaticities that can seem to have a life of their own DO exist. I think everyone is capable of resolving their own, though.

Nice!

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

LOL, and they think the rest of the world is bat-shit crazy, so it's all bat-shit crazy here.

The whole world is insane except for this guy

[video=youtube;o9NYh_VUWwM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9NYh_VUWwM[/video]

 

[Veda]

"...this book will explain a lot to people who had a bad impression of Scientology... the book will make friends out of foes to the Scientology philosophy and will put the blame for the bad deeds on... David Miscavige."

Quoting from one of the 5 star reviews of Marty Rathbun's book.

 

[Caroline]

Since you've mentioned Dan Koon, here's an interesting post from Dan, one of the co-authors/editors of "the book."

LRH dispatch — Joe Howard 2010-03-11 15:30

Clive, can you fill me in a bit on our interview? I don't recall it. To answer your question, I read the dispatch to Mayo from 1982 where he [LRH] said that he was going to be off the lines for 10 or 20 years.

Someone who was close to LRH near the end relayed that LRH said that he was not coming back but that he was going to do the Running Program and then split for saner pastures.

My own viewpoint is that LRH left enough material for us each to sort out our own salvation and that we should not insist that he be here to hold our hands every step of the way.

Dan
​

Found here:

http://www.scientology-cult.com/videos/dan-koon-videos.html

Excellent find! Thanks, ILove2Lurk. Here's Dan Koon on the Bridge overhaul we've been talking about, and about the technical orders Rathbun accuses DM of being in non-compliance with.

[Informal transcript: 3:26 - 4:50]

Someone has asked me about my opinion of these, sort of these quote unquote "different versions" of the Bridge. And my own feeling is: there is the, there is the Bridge.

I mean, I don't, you know, the Bridge has changed over the years. LRH came out with the first one in 1965. And as he did more research, and different OT levels came out, different levels got added and you can say that those are new Bridges or different Bridges.

And then NOTs came out, and old OT levels went off and NOTS went on and so on. But um... [pause]

You know, LRH didn't really ever stop researching. And I think the Bridge sort of reflects his researches at the different stages of his life.

And what occurred after he passed away in 1986, was he left behind many orders on technical matters that had not been complied to, and they, those didn't really get complied to 'til in the nineties some time.

And some of the stuff still isn't done. So the Bridge has to be-- the grade chart-- the document has to be modified to reflect that.

So whether ah-- There's a discussion going on about different Bridges. I actually don't know too much about that. And it, it's not, ah for me it's not a particularly big issue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3HRf40gobE&feature=player_embedded#!

Soft landing, much?

Skipping OT 3 is like Hubbard saying "Well I've never lied to you about Xenu. I've just done more research."

 

[Veda]

Excellent find! Thanks, ILove2Lurk. Here's Dan Koon on the Bridge overhaul we've been talking about, and about the technical orders Rathbun accuses DM of being in non-compliance with.



Soft landing, much?

Skipping OT 3 is like Hubbard saying "Well I've never lied to you about Xenu. I've just done more research."

Incidentally, I have it from an anonymous authoritative source, who was in a position to know, that Rathbun has misrepresented that. Can't say any more, except that my opinion of Marty Rathbun and his book has actually diminished even further in the last 12 hours.

And, as this thread, perhaps, draws to a close, it seems appropriate to quote from some of Marty Rathbun's recent comments:

"With all the chatter about L. Ron Hubbard's alleged shortcomings, it got me thinking about what the effect of the unprecedented ad hominem attacks against the man were. Hubbard was demonized by the cold war establishment perhaps more than any other civilian figure. One cumulative effect of it all was to one degree or another de-humanize him in the public eye. We see remnants of those effects to this day... Providing context to the entire picture is a long term project that I never lose sight of, but unfortunately I have not found the time to devote to it that it deserves... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1-6I-d4jK0
"Miscavige has run a continuous propaganda campaign attempting to besmirch the good name of L. Ron Hubbard. He has continually given little interest or funds for defending public relations attacks on L. Ron Hubbard." ​

The readers are reminded that this is Marty Rathbun's first book. There's supposed to be a second book - possibly a biography of L. Ron Hubbard.

 

[Mick Wenlock]

And, as this thread, perhaps, draws to a close, it seems appropriate to quote from some of Marty Rathbun's recent comments:

"With all the chatter about L. Ron Hubbard's alleged shortcomings, it got me thinking about what the effect of the unprecedented ad hominem attacks against the man were. Hubbard was demonized by the cold war establishment perhaps more than any other civilian figure. One cumulative effect of it all was to one degree or another de-humanize him in the public eye. We see remnants of those effects to this day... Providing context to the entire picture is a long term project that I never lose sight of, but unfortunately I have not found the time to devote to it that it deserves...
"Miscavige has run a continuous propaganda campaign attempting to besmirch the good name of L. Ron Hubbard. He has continually given little interest or funds for defending public relations attacks on L. Ron Hubbard." ​

The readers are reminded that this is Marty Rathbun's first book. There's supposed to be a second book - possibly a biography of L. Ron Hubbard.

You know, for some reason you point really drove home the concept of Occam's Razor for me.

Watching Marty prevaricate and quibble, evade and explain and invent ever greater ad hoc hypotheses to try and explain away the utter disdain, disgust and derision that Hubbard generated around himself for decades makes me realize something.

How nice it would be if the likes of Marty, Mike the rest of of the avid followers both there and in other places would just pause for a minute and consider something

Maybe Hubbard was just an asshole.

That simple little entity explains a whole bunch of stuff. It doesn't require inventing conspiracies that span the globe and involves the wholesale fabrication of complete life stories merely to make the guy look bad.

Maybe he was just an asshole.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

... I recently resolved a huge emotional hangup by spotting "where" it was coming from in the middle of a major family emotional crisis and that it was "not mine". Yes, it blew. Completely. It was also, perhaps, the biggest resolution of my life and how I was better able to deal with my life afterwards from this - permanently. I was wracked with painful sorrow - an OLD painful sorrow - until I did this. I still felt sad (from the circumstances), but it was a normal sort of sad, if that makes sense. The hangup or whatever you might call it was gone. One I had carried with me most of my life. ...

Congratulations.

... It did not require contacting past lives. It did not require running "characters" or "personalities" or "incidents" or any of that and I highly doubt any of that is or ever was necessary or would have done any good. ... .

My own experience is that it can be useful to run such things especially when understood that they are symbols of the mind which can be interpreted in a variety of ways, not just as 'lifetimes' or 'track histories'. Individuals are free to interpret or re-interpret such things as their considerations & circumstances change. I believe that Jung understood and to some degree pioneered in this sort of an approach.

I would agree with you though in that it is often not at all necessary to run it in such a fashion.

My own take is that the mind & spirituality, being subjective in nature, are subjects which can not be definitively analyzed. Accordingly, a doctrinaire or ideologically driven approach in representing such things is insupportable.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Vittorio]

Best review so far. Copy/pasted from Amazon.com;

"It's remarkable how Marty Rathbun blames virtually everything wrong in Scientology on David Miscavige, Scientology's leader and his former boss.

Hey, Marty Rathbun, some of us can remember the 1970s and 1960s. Scientology was nuts then too, and so was L. Ron Hubbard, your hero. "

Let the games begin.

Not enough people over here are crossing over to the website to debate some of the statements being made in the positive reviews. Many of them haven't read the book, yet someone called Wayne is challenging a poster who gave the book a 2 star review who he claims hasn't read the book. Talk about double standards.

 

[Caroline]

Incidentally, I have it from an anonymous authoritative source, who was in a position to know, that Rathbun has misrepresented that. Can't say any more, except that my opinion of Marty Rathbun and his book has actually diminished even further in the last 12 hours.

Okay. Dan Koon edited Rathbun's book, and he clearly was on those exact lines at the time. Perhaps someone with a comm line to him could get him to clarify what Rathbun misrepresented. Just to be clear, here's the relevant excerpt:

Hubbard ordered that a pilot program be implemented where Clears who were just beginning the OT Levels skip OT 3 – where the space opera story appears – and instead go directly onto the following level, which makes no reference to OT 3 in theory or procedure.

Rathbun, Mark 'Marty' (2012-06-24). What Is Wrong With Scientology?: Healing Through Understanding

 

[Smilla]

Okay. Dan Koon edited Rathbun's book, and he clearly was on those exact lines at the time. Perhaps someone with a comm line to him could get him to clarify what Rathbun misrepresented. Just to be clear, here's the relevant excerpt:

"Hubbard ordered that a pilot program be implemented where Clears who were just beginning the OT Levels skip OT 3 – where the space opera story appears – and instead go directly onto the following level, which makes no reference to OT 3 in theory or procedure."

Rathbun, Mark 'Marty' (2012-06-24). What Is Wrong With Scientology?: Healing Through Understanding

That Hubbard guy was such a Squirrel.

 

[Veda]

"Hubbard ordered that a pilot program be implemented where Clears who were just beginning the OT Levels skip OT 3 – where the space opera story appears – and instead go directly onto the following level, which makes no reference to OT 3 in theory or procedure."

Rathbun, Mark 'Marty' (2012-06-24). What Is Wrong With Scientology?: Healing Through Understanding

That Hubbard guy was such a Squirrel.

If you read everything that Marty Rathbun has said about OT 3, he uses every conceivable angle to make the Xenu PR problem, with "wogs," go away.

Not liking Scientology doesn't mean one is immune from being "handled" by Scientology.

Marty is doing a "handling."

 

[Caroline]

If you read everything that Marty Rathbun has said about OT 3, he uses every conceivable angle to make the Xenu PR problem, with "wogs," go away.

Not liking Scientology doesn't mean one is immune from being "handled" by Scientology.

Marty is doing a "handling."

Yes, I'm pretty sure of that. His promotional action of "Gains acceptance of Scientology and its Founder" fails utterly. The Xenu story won't be PRed away.

Imo, Scientologists taking a ride on Rathbun's underground railroad should be aware of the blatant squirreling, and should immediately get off that train for their own safety. From what I've gathered, Indie tech is dangerous in many of the ways as is RTC tech. And because the Indie Bridge is less regulated, the potential for damage/abuse is possibly even greater.

I'm thinking about doing a more detailed analysis of Rathbun's book, especially the Martyworld tech, but it's probably not for this thread. If such a discussion would be helpful on this mb, I'd like to know.

 

[Gadfly]

My own take is that the mind & spirituality, being subjective in nature, are subjects which can not be definitively analyzed.

Mark A. Baker

That is true ONLY as regards the CONTENT of a mind. The statement is not true as regard the FUNCTIONING of any mind (and/or a unit of awareness).

How any mind does what it does can be analyzed. These things can be studied. These things can be monitored and observed. Of course, the best place, and actually the ONLY place where you can observe such things in their own arena, is in YOUR OWN MIND.

For instance, one can analyze how a mind creates concepts, how these exist as ideas, and how these ideas relate to the experiences of the world and universe out there. General Semantics explored that a bit.

One can analyze how ideas exist at different levels of abstraction.

One can analyze how the subjective does what it does.

Most people get caught up in the details and content of ones own mind. Few actually ever aim to watch it in action - sort of like a spectator. Though, to do that requires some determination, some putting of a distance between "you and your mind", and also, the very act of watching a mind CHANGES IT!

By doing so, by "personally & scientifically observing a mind in action", the experience of subjectivity itself changes!

Scientology NEVER encouraged that, but Buddhism and other Hindu approaches do.

That ancient saying, "Know Thyself", referred to self-examination and self-awareness. It referred to calm, intelligent, and careful "introspection". Not as "ideas about", not as dogma, not as significance, but as "quielty paying attention to the workings of ones own mind, nature and inner space".

Observation directed inward. TR0 on your MIND! The watcher watching itself doing what it does. The observer observing itself doing what any observer does.

Again, Scientology NEVER encourages THAT!

That is a major failing of Scientology as a mental and spiritual practice.

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Uh... 'scuse me, but isn't Marty admitting to having committed to crimes here?:

"The idea of OT IX and X was a creation of Pat Broeker, dreamt up on the heels of the death of LRH to keep the masses from open revolt and keep the vampire Miscavige from his own throat. He proudly announced that “OT IX and X is compiled and ready for delivery.” Those around at the time may recall the utter shock Miscavige suffered when Broeker (with no prior coordination) surprised everyone with that out-of-the- blue announcement.

A two year series of intrigues ensued between Miscavige and Broeker jockeying to control the holy grail that did not exist. You may have listened to my story about the raid on Broeker’s ranch that I lead to retrieve LRH’s auditing files (St Pete Times video interview). That was done because Broeker said the keys to OT IX and X were in those folders and to hold DM off from deposing Broeker, Broeker threatened to have IX and X copyrighted in his own name.

When the folders turned out to contain no holy grail, Broeker then said he had other LRH writings that constituted the keys to OT IX and X. Another raid ensued – in which I coordinated a squad of armed outside security personnel to secure the premises. It will take a couple of chapters – and hopefully I’ll get the time soon to complete the entire picture – to connect all the dots on this, but suffice it to say for now, it turned out to be yet another Broeker bluff. "

:confused2: ...seems unwise to admit this in print.

From: http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/08/06/the-land-of-milk-and-honey-and-virgins-galore/

(Warning, it's Marty's blog site)

 

[tetloj]

Not enough people over here are crossing over to the website to debate some of the statements being made in the positive reviews.

Not confident enough to debate but I am going in to like and dislike things as appropriate...you're doing a great job btw.

 

[PirateAndBum]

Yes, I'm pretty sure of that. His promotional action of "Gains acceptance of Scientology and its Founder" fails utterly. The Xenu story won't be PRed away.

Imo, Scientologists taking a ride on Rathbun's underground railroad should be aware of the blatant squirreling, and should immediately get off that train for their own safety. From what I've gathered, Indie tech is dangerous in many of the ways as is RTC tech. And because the Indie Bridge is less regulated, the potential for damage/abuse is possibly even greater.

I'm thinking about doing a more detailed analysis of Rathbun's book, especially the Martyworld tech, but it's probably not for this thread. If such a discussion would be helpful on this mb, I'd like to know.

Yes, I think such a discussion is very appropriate to ESMB.