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trepidatious

Terril park

Sponsor
LRH was in a horrible state. He may or may not have died. He preferentially chose David Mayo to help him, which Mayo did, quite successfully. There were other factors involved, contributing to the situation. LRH believed in Mayo. He trusted him. He liked him. And Mayo had nothing but the best of intentions toward LRH. LRH felt that Mayo saved is life, and awarded him his deserved status accordingly.

The escalation of Mayo's position caused jealousies, serious jealousies, among others.

Really happy to see you post here and am inclined to believe you.

By awarding Mayo status are you referring to his "tech hat" passed on from LRH? This is yet to have confirmation.
 

cowboy

Patron with Honors
The whole business of the death of Quentin has never made much sense to me.

The plates were off the car but near it.

The car was registered to the Co$ at flag ( where, of course, Q was last on post )

Supposedly his hair was found on a runner in the trunk of the car.

He was in a coma for almost 2 weeks.

Allegedly dies after 2 scientologists ( GO ?) left & his life support system was turned off.

To me, the corker of oddest ( if true ) was he died one day & LRH was informed the next day.

One of his children in the hospital in a coma & scientologists in attendance - and Ron NOT know anything about it ?

Can you shed any light on this episode ?

Or, have I bought into stories not true ?

Wow, it seems you've heard more than I. I can only say what I observed. I was in the room when the old man was told that his son had just died. I don't recall that there was a period of time when Q was in a coma. It may have been so, but I don't recall it. It was obviously a suicide. Quentin was on leave, and having some troubles with the church, and his father. The old man was shocked. Suprised. But he got on with his work in a very short time, with no further talk of it.
 

Veda

Sponsor
LRH was in a horrible state. He may or may not have died. He preferentially chose David Mayo to help him, which Mayo did, quite successfully. There were other factors involved, contributing to the situation. LRH believed in Mayo. He trusted him. He liked him. And Mayo had nothing but the best of intentions toward LRH. LRH felt that Mayo saved is life, and awarded him his deserved status accordingly.

The escalation of Mayo's position caused jealousies, serious jealousies, among others.

David Mayo wrote his 'Harmonics of Clear' HCOB, which, effectively threw a monkey wrench in Hubbard's desire to have as may people as possible attest to Dianetic Clear, and move out of Missions and "up lines."

Hubbard, after "blowing up" at Mayo over that HCOB, seemed to let it slide.

Some time later, when David Mayo sided with the Mission holders - who were loyal to Hubbard, but in opposition to the CMO, which was secretly run by Hubbard - unbeknownst to the naive Mission Holders - Mayo's days were numbered.

He went the way of every other person who had worked closely with Hubbard, or had been Hubbard's auditor.

David Mayo ended up running around a tree in the desert, case supervised (at a distance) by Hubbard, and then finally blew.
 
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cowboy

Patron with Honors
:thumbsup: Thanks, cowboy. :yes:

I had a midships upper-decks office and cabin when El Ron had his heart attack and was one of the "early responders". I've written about it and my "Take" here on ESMB. I know you were very young then, but I'm curious what your "Take" was and what the "buzz" was amongst the messengers.

Were you part of the messenger detail that interacted with Cathy Cariotaki and Kima and the hospital detail during that time?


Face:)


No, I wasn't directly involved in that.

The buzz with the messengers? Doesn't it strike us all, in a moment like that, that the demi-god might not indeed be godly, but constrained to physical universe rules like us all? Would it be talked about? No. Of course not. None of the physical infirmities, insofar as their spiritual implications, which I witnessed in other situations, could be addressed in a straight forward manner, for to do so would remove the old man from his vaulted status.
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: False Anonymity

I see that as on the money Mac. Same for Face really.

I highly resent this post, Terril.

You have no idea how much work and thought I have put into crafting my posts, how much I have held back and just how successful I have been in navigating the waters so far.:no:

You, Sir, may go fly a kite and stick it in your ear.

Peace. :yes:


Face:)
 

cowboy

Patron with Honors
...

Cool thread.

There are two side to Hubbard I find particularly fascinating.
* The real L. Ron Hubbard that is incalculably and irreconcileably in diametric opposition to the supernatural saint persona that Scientologsts were cleverly deceived into believing.

* The monumental efforts that Hubbard made to create a swirling maelstrom of believable lies about himself, his achievements and his powers.
Stories that illustrate his very human, cruel, ignorant, disturbed psychological condition(s) are of extreme value to those who were swept along into personal oblivion for years, if not decades, hopelessly chasing the delusion that Ron was an ascended or perfected being--when he was oft times, cruel, avaricious, vengeful, violent, criminal and incapable of telling the truth.

And tales that demonstrate the lengths that Hubbard would go to in order to foster the errantly placed trust in the mythology of his OTness.

By telling your story you take a most venerated position as one of the rare and precious collaboration of BIOGRAPHERS who shine sunlight on some of Scientology's most treacherous untold story. Along with other wonderful writers and posters (like afaceinthecrowd who greeted you so warmly on this thread) and David Mayo and Jerry Armstrong, Bent Corydon, Jon Atak and others, you play an important role to many people around the world who will use your knowledge to complete their own.

I have very close friends who worked directly with Hubbard who, to this day, refuse to speak ill of him. I had dinner the other night with one who daringly even added words to the effect (unsolicited) that "....I could say things about what I saw with Ron, but I will never do that!"

Many here are delighted that you are taking that step...

Talk about the parts that you think others would have no way of knowing, if not for your insights into the secret world of Hubbard.

Naturally, anyone who has been in Scientology (and escaped) is guarded to some degree about accepting anyone's "word for it" when they have been lied to so often and badly in the world of Scientology.

But, I think you will find that virtually everyone here is interested in just knowing the simple truth.

Carry on my man, you are off to a great start!

Wow. Well thanks. Shucks.

There are things I too will never say about Hubbard. And there are reasons. Some good. Some personal.

Look, one thing I learned in the church is that people are going to believe what they are going to believe, irrespective of facts. A Scientologist reading this post, who is in good standing, may well nay say my observations as the rantings of a former confidante. Former Scientologists reading this have framed their own opinions. And what I may write that isn't real to them they will toss out. And what they agree with they will keep.

Some even doubt my experiences are based in fact.

It is very, very difficult to summarize a person's character, especially one so complex as that of Hubbard, in a few paragraphs. In this culture we all try to pigeonhole someone into neat categories of good and evil. Hubbard couldn't be categorized into categories as these in a black and white fashion. Some of his bad was worse than many would suspect, but some of his good could be very touching.

I don't come here with any axe to grind.

There are a few questions the answers to which stablized my life and set me on a new course.

We can all read the definitions of clear and OT. Throw out the hype, the fabricated success stories, the baloney. Has anyone ever achieved the loftiness described as the end product of those processes? Hubbard? No. And of course no one else has either.

What we all have experienced are "ah so" moments of realization on various things. The relief of a misunderstood being cleared up and the subject being easier to understand, a breakdown and better understanding of the fundamentals of communication. But has there ever been a clear? Not that I know of. Apply a healthy degree of skepticism, and a "show me the evidence" attitude and everything crashes down.

Hubbard believed in his religion. His information of failures of the tech to do what was promised were consistently hidden from him... though eventually moments of daring would occur when someone could have a candid talk, and the whole structure of scn technology would be re-evaluated.

I hope this gives a little insight.
 
Re: False Anonymity

I see that as on the money Mac. Same for Face really.

Face is an highly credible source, BB. More to the point, he is far and away a more reliable source than are you. You would be much better off if you did not seek to draw attention to your own deficiencies in this manner. :eyeroll:


Mark A. Baker
 

cowboy

Patron with Honors
It would be great if you could speak to us of what might have become of Pat Broeker, or the Spanish (or Mexican?) or Latina cooks/housekeepers? Any others who know things?

I have made absolutely no attempt to stay in touch with others I knew from that time, until deciding to explore this site.
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
Re: False Anonymity

I see that as on the money Mac. Same for Face really.

Ugh.

Terril, I like you a lot. I really do.

But, I find this kind of a slap in the face to some great posters.

I don't know of everyone's reasons for not posting their real names on ESMB. I don't post mine.

Is it because I'm afraid COS will know who I am? No. I've been posting to ARS, OCMB and ESMB for 12 years now. Lots of people know who I am. I have no doubt COS has known for at least a decade.

However, I need to keep my real name out of the search engines when it comes to Scientology stuff. For personal reasons. I work for a major Fortune 500 (more like in the top 50) very conservative corporation. This part of my life I don't need to come into that part of my life.

And I have family members who spend a lot of time on the internet. No way I want my 80 year old mom reading all of Lulu Belle's posts. You know?

People have their reasons for not being "out there". And if people who need their privacy aren't allowed their privacy, the they wouldn't post. And, as a result, we would lose an incredible amount of great information.

Those who post under their real names often have a lot of resentment towards those that don't. And, honestly, its understandable.

But, I wouldn't want to lose so many great people here because for whatever reason they can't at this point say who they are.

Let's just respect the fact that they have their reasons.

And let them have a voice.
 

cowboy

Patron with Honors
<realizing this doesn't forward the conversation at hand> Well, since I'm here really to come to terms with my own leftover ****, I sit here feeling like an epic dumbass having drunk the Kool-aid, especially about LRH, and really sorry that my mom spent her whole retirement on this **** on the basis that she trusted my certainty. Now, I can start forgiving myself. It's gonna take a little while. But at least I'm not alone in my Kool-aid idiocy.

So cowboy, I get why you'd be trepidatious. Why did you climb aboard here? Being clear about that for yourself (if you're not) might help sort out what you say or do here. jmho.

Why climb aboard here? Perhaps to shed a bit of clarity that could help you here more successfully move on with your lives. To perhaps give another viewpoint to someone thinking of entering the church, or of leaving it.

Perhaps it would be better to have left well enough alone. But if I can sway anyone to sweep away the dregs of ignorance, perhaps it will assuage the guilt of my work in Scn.
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
Why climb aboard here? Perhaps to shed a bit of clarity that could help you here more successfully move on with your lives. To perhaps give another viewpoint to someone thinking of entering the church, or of leaving it.

Perhaps it would be better to have left well enough alone. But if I can sway anyone to sweep away the dregs of ignorance, perhaps it will assuage the guilt of my work in Scn.


please don't go. :)
 

cowboy

Patron with Honors
When I was posted in CMOCW we had a few missions, durring the time of the freewinds start up, where the Diana was dry docked at a marina just north of teh FH.

I went on a mission to figure out what to do with it. The funny thing was it was super confidential and noone at the FLB was to know that the Diana, a slice of Sea Org history, was just a few short miles from the land base.

I could never really understand why COB and WDC wanted to keep this from the public and more so the Sea ORg.

That got me thinking about DM and when he took over. Messengers were pretty well all over the place at that point. I can tell you that the majority of us really thought we were LRH's Messengers but in looking back we were now DM's messengers. it might not seem like a big thing to many but it really was the key to help DM to take over.

All the messengers thinking they are helping LRH and doing everything it takes to forward his purpose of making a clear planet. When really we were putting DM in place with a sledge hammer. oops :nervous:

See, who says you have to have Scn to have a realization?
 
Re: False Anonymity

I highly resent this post, Terril.

You have no idea how much work and thought I have put into crafting my posts, how much I have held back and just how successful I have been in navigating the waters so far.:no:

You, Sir, may go fly a kite and stick it in your ear.

Peace. :yes:


Face:)

I'd warrant he used some other liquid than ink to write that post, Face. :beer::cheers2::faint:


Mark A. Baker :eyeroll:
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
Re: False Anonymity

I see that as on the money Mac. Same for Face really.

It is no secret I've never been admirer of yours in any way, shape, or form.

However my opinion of you just joined the Titanic.

That is about all I can post as should I post what I really thought of now you I'd get banned.
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
There were only three people that new completely what happened. Two are dead. The third will never speak, and if so, would still not be believed, no matter what he said.

Cowboy, a hearty welcome!

In your post above, re the dead people who knew about Hubbard's last will, are you referring specifically to Gene Denk and Annie Broeker -- and that Pat Broeker (still alive) will never speak and would not be believed?

Or are you saying Pat Broeker is also dead -- and that David Miscavige will never speak?

(I just want to understand what you've actually told us.)

Many thanks for coming here and sharing your information.

TG1
 

cowboy

Patron with Honors
please don't go. :)

I think I'm done. This isn't what I expected, and frankly, I probably shouldn't have said anything.

I've already apparently created bad will. I didn't post a few entries to receive attacks. Believe what I say or not, it doesn't matter.

I'll lurk I guess. And fade away.
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
I think I'm done. This isn't what I expected, and frankly, I probably shouldn't have said anything.

I've already apparently created bad will. I didn't post a few entries to receive attacks. Believe what I say or not, it doesn't matter.

I'll lurk I guess. And fade away.

There are people who would like to run you off from here. They do not want the truth told.

Please do not allow them to keep you saying whatever it is you feel inclined to post.

And, if you elect to drift away ? Thanks for what you contributed !
 
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Krautfag

Patron Meritorious
I think I'm done. This isn't what I expected, and frankly, I probably shouldn't have said anything.

I've already apparently created bad will. I didn't post a few entries to receive attacks. Believe what I say or not, it doesn't matter.

I'll lurk I guess. And fade away.

Please don't go. You obviously have some very interesting things to tell.

Please don't mind Terril, at times he drinks and then posts instead of the other way around and thus creates marvelous fuck-ups. I guess, I'll just fly over the channel tomorrow and throw some poo at him.

Seriously, I for one love to hear anything new about Hubbard as pretty much everything I hear supports my personal view of him. When you talked of his paranoia and the extend of it, I was just silently nodding my head here.
You know, one common symptom of paranoia is that the patient feels like a gazillon of tiny insects is crawling all over his skin. BTs anyone?
 
I think I'm done. This isn't what I expected, and frankly, I probably shouldn't have said anything.

I've already apparently created bad will. I didn't post a few entries to receive attacks. Believe what I say or not, it doesn't matter.

I'll lurk I guess. And fade away.

It's an unfortunate fact of internet boards that whatever is said will likely piss off someone who will subsequently initiate attacks.

The data you have to share about early days is important. Please continue to share it and just let the personal remarks roll off.


Mark A. Baker
 
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