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trepidatious

LA SCN

NOT drinking the kool-aid
MSH should be a hero to the members of the church, rather than the villification which received during and after her life. SHe took the wrap for faults which were not hers, took herself from her familiar surroundings, sacrificed everything... her freedom before and after jail, to protect her husband and the church. If I was a church member I would worship the ground she once walked on.

Absolutely.

Amazing how the rank and file scilons sat by while miscavige screwed her to the wall and then when she passed had her expunged from the rolls, no memorial service, no mention.
 

cowboy

Patron with Honors
Absolutely.

Amazing how the rank and file scilons sat by while miscavige screwed her to the wall and then when she passed had her expunged from the rolls, no memorial service, no mention.

Hubbard would turn over in the grave at this. Forget whether she was right or wrong in what she did. She still was a brave lady, living in isolation, trying to do the right thing. For the record, she was a believer in "the end justifies the means", a principle in which I disagree, but she did give her all for Scn.
 

LA SCN

NOT drinking the kool-aid
Were you still in touch with Leo Johnson when he and Pamela Lancaster were married?

I met him once while Hubbard was still alive, February, 1984, and found him to be very interesting and nice. Seemed to me he had the quality a lot of old ot7's I knew had - a lot of affinity. I believe he has since passed on.
 

DagwoodGum

Squirreling Dervish
Thanks. It is difficult because much of what I experienced is little known, no witnesses, or I don't want to get overly specific on certain things which could still cause harm to people.
No, they only cause themselves upset by getting so worked up just because you can't show them the video evidence backing up what you say. Just like with TV shows, they can change to a different thread if they don't like what you have to say according to your own experiences, thoughts and integrity. You know you shouldn't be required to change your reality in order to suit theirs. Plus we've already heard their thoughts and experiences, now we want to hear yours!
No one says it like the Moody Blues:

"There you go man, keep as cool as you can Face piles and piles of trials with smiles It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave And keep on thinking free ..."
:thumbsup:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTHoKEd-Gjo
 

Veda

Sponsor
Absolutely.

Amazing how the rank and file scilons sat by while miscavige screwed her to the wall and then when she passed had her expunged from the rolls, no memorial service, no mention.

Let me see if I understand this. Her husband makes her the head of the most dangerous job in Scientology (while secretly being her boss), equivalent to painting a red target on her back, and when the fit hits the shan, tactfully has her deposed by placing the CMO over the GO, goes into even deeper hiding, and lets her take the rap for him, going to prison in his place, while he insists he didn't know anything.

Sounds like her Husband screwed her to the wall, and also sounds like her husband led the way in making her a non-person, just as Quentin had become a non-person five years earlier.
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
Cowboy, someone asked earlier if you were present when Hubbard died.

If so, what was your take on all that went down during those times?

And if so, what did you think of the Broekers and Gene Denk and their care of Hubbard?

TG1
 
... You need to help others know everything they can about Hubbard and this cult! It is part of "making up the damage" for any damage you caused whilst in the cult! We all help others get out and you need to spill the beans on HUBBARD and his CULT! ...

He's a member here like any other. The information he has is of use to others, witness the popularity of the thread.

However, HE doesn't NEED to do anything.

That's YOUR consideration. Don't go putting your 'musts' off on other posters, particularly on some weird guilt-trip mentality you have worked out. There is more than enough information available online and elsewhere to enable a reasonable person to question involvement with the Co$ if they are willing to look.

Cowboy's stories are welcome. Missions from god are not.


Mark A. Baker
 
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cowboy

Patron with Honors
Were you still in touch with Leo Johnson when he and Pamela Lancaster were married?

I met him once while Hubbard was still alive, February, 1984, and found him to be very interesting and nice. Seemed to me he had the quality a lot of old ot7's I knew had - a lot of affinity. I believe he has since passed on.

I wasn't in touch with him when he married. I considered him a true friend, a wonderful guy, and one of the few I ever met respected by Hubbard and who spoke with Hubbard as an equal (sort of, respectfully).
 

cowboy

Patron with Honors
Let me see if I understand this. Her husband makes her the head of the most dangerous job in Scientology (while secretly being her boss), equivalent to painting a red target on her back, and when the fit hits the shan, tactfully has her deposed by placing the CMO over the GO, goes into even deeper hiding, and lets her take the rap for him, going to prison in his place, while he insists he didn't know anything.

Sounds like her Husband screwed her to the wall, and also sounds like her husband led the way in making her a non-person, just as Quentin had become a non-person five years earlier.

Absolutely and completely spot on, correct and better than I could have explained. Let me explain something. I didn't like MSH. I didn't get along with her. She was aloof, reserved, and cold.

But I did respect her determination to do what she felt was right for her cause, no matter what the personal choice. it is only too bad that such self sacrifice was for a farce, and didn't even receive the recognition she deserved. But to have recognized her valor would have been for the church to admit she was taking one for the cause... and possibly open the door to incriminating Hubbard.
 

cowboy

Patron with Honors
Cowboy, someone asked earlier if you were present when Hubbard died.

If so, what was your take on all that went down during those times?

And if so, what did you think of the Broekers and Gene Denk and their care of Hubbard?

TG1

I cannot speak from personal experience. What I know is second hand, but I cannot attest to its accuracy so I prefer to say nothing.
 

R6Basic

Patron Meritorious
I'm really enjoying this thread.

I'll repeat an earlier question.

Did you ever see Hubbard wearing glasses?

In Dn. he wrote that during clearing people's eyesight would improve.
Then I remember something he said about overts ( I think it was overts) leading to poor eyesight I remember the quote "That's why you see glasses on everyone's noses."

I believe it was in 'A Piece of Blue Sky' that said Hubbard were glasses but not in public.
 

cowboy

Patron with Honors
I'm really enjoying this thread.

I'll repeat an earlier question.

Did you ever see Hubbard wearing glasses?

In Dn. he wrote that during clearing people's eyesight would improve.
Then I remember something he said about overts ( I think it was overts) leading to poor eyesight I remember the quote "That's why you see glasses on everyone's noses."

I believe it was in 'A Piece of Blue Sky' that said Hubbard were glasses but not in public.

As I recall he occassionally wore glasses.

His body responded to the wear and tear of aging like everyone's. The body changes with age, as he found out, with little regard to the benefits of Scn that was supposed to change that. In fact, if anything, his body weathered the ravages of time less well than the normal.
 

cowboy

Patron with Honors
Yep - Mary Sue's dog...but that might have been earlier than your experience with the family. :confused2:

I would have forgotten the name of the dog... but that was on the ship as I recall. If we're thinking of the same dog. MSH would walk the dog on deck, and the dog would growl.... I thought I'd get kicked off the first time it growled at me. Is that the dog you're talking about?
 

R6Basic

Patron Meritorious
As I recall he occassionally wore glasses.

His body responded to the wear and tear of aging like everyone's. The body changes with age, as he found out, with little regard to the benefits of Scn that was supposed to change that. In fact, if anything, his body weathered the ravages of time less well than the normal.


LOL, just made me remember when I saw a picture of him in "Images of a Lifetime." He was older and my first thought was "wow, he got fat."

I was pretty new to Scn. but when I found out he died at age, what 70?, I wasn't very impressed. I figured if he knew all that he said he knew he would have lived to 100 + easily.

It seems like I saw things more clearly before I got fully into Scn.
 

cowboy

Patron with Honors
So, it was a good week. Hubbard was pleased with the CMO, and we were going to get a reward.

In the days of Disco fever, the Bee Gees were the end all. And, guess what, they were going to be playing at Dodger's Stadium, just a couple hours away. Hubbard footed the bill and we got tickets, and being goal oriented, we sent some advance guys down to the field to secure good seats on the grass in front of the stand. The question was, once the rest of us got there, how would we find the group holding our spot on the field?

We couldn't just hold a sign saying "Scientologists here". Some one decided to hold up a sign with the symbol for musical notes, which would be the rallying point for us.

We all left GHS and traveled to Dodger's Stadium, and then found the plackard. But, ironically, someone not with our group in the field mistook the music symbol for the Scn symbol and asked us if we were Scientologists. lol. True! Of course we denied it, stating we were a music group studying the Bee Gees.

This pointless story doesn't have a bad ending. It was fun. A relief from the coal mines. And a moment of pleasure I remember to this day, being dragged from the dredges of my memory by the recent death of one of the Bee Gees. And Hubbard had pushed us to go have fun.

I wonder, has this been written of on the internet?
 

cowboy

Patron with Honors
LOL, just made me remember when I saw a picture of him in "Images of a Lifetime." He was older and my first thought was "wow, he got fat."

I was pretty new to Scn. but when I found out he died at age, what 70?, I wasn't very impressed. I figured if he knew all that he said he knew he would have lived to 100 + easily.

It seems like I saw things more clearly before I got fully into Scn.

Good points. But no one would comment on the fact that reality contradicted pleasant appeasing words, for to do so was a ticket to the RPF.
 
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