About PR and Propaganda

[uncover]

I think its a good time to have a closer look at PR and propaganda. Here is one definition:

"Propaganda is that means which serves to influence the opinion of the individual without the person affected noticing it at all." (Adolf Hitler)

So how did the originator of this definition put his words into practice ? Here is one example, if you need more, you can do a youtube-search for "Nuernberg" and "Rally" or "Parteitag":

[video=youtube;-XQWDQyRBxA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XQWDQyRBxA[/video]

Bombastic, isn´t it ? Therefore the originator was labelled as "Master of Staging". This was more than 70 years ago, with the means of that time. Some may wonder, how this would look in modern times. Here I found a good template:

[video=youtube;hNVNvx7F--k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNVNvx7F--k[/video]

Now some may wonder, how to get together so many people who are willing to be brainwashed. You have to promote it:

[video=youtube;918tcNfmOxY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=918tcNfmOxY[/video]

But some will say, Scientology and Hubbard never would try to manipulate other indivuals - the have not even thought about such evil things. Are you sure ? Let´s have closer a look:

HCO BULLETIN OF 29 JULY 1973​

ART, MORE ABOUT​

How good does a professional work of art have to be? This would include painting, music, photography, poetry, any of the arts whether fine or otherwise. It would also include presenting oneself as an art form as well as one’s products. Yes, how GOOD does such a work of art have to be?
.....
If you look at or listen to any work of art, there is only one thing the casual audience responds to en masse, and if this has it then you too will see it as a work of art. If it doesn’t have it, you won’t.

So what is it?

TECHNICAL EXPERTISE ITSELF ADEQUATE TO PRODUCE AN EMOTIONAL IMPACT.

And that is how good a work of art has to be to be good.

If you look this over from various sides, you will see that the general spectator is generally unaware of technique. That is the zone of art’s creators.

Were you to watch a crowd watching a magician, you would find one common enominator eliciting uniform response. If he is a good magician he is a smooth showman. He isn’t showing them how he does his tricks. He is showing them a flawless flowing performance. This alone is providing the carrier wave that takes the substance of his actions to his audience. Though a far cry from fine art, perhaps, yet there is art in the way he does things. If he is good, the audience is seeing first of all, before anything else, the TECHNICAL EXPERTISE of his performance. They are also watching him do things they know they can’t do. And they are watching the outcome of his presentations. He is a good magician if he gives a technically flawless performance just in terms of scenes and motions which provide the channel for what he is presenting.
.....
The message is what the audience thinks it sees or hears. The significance of the play, the towering clouds of sound in the symphony, the scatter-batter of the current pop group, are what the audience thinks it is perceiving and what they will describe, usually, or which they think they admire. If it comes to them with a basic expertise itself able to produce an emotional impact they will think it is great.

If you have achieved an "emotional impact" on your audience you are ready to introduce the "message" on your "carrier wave":

HCO BULLETIN OF 26 FEBRUARY 1984​

ART AND INTEGRATION​

.....​

MESSAGE​

The purpose of art is to communicate an intended MESSAGE. Message is what you want someone to think about things. It is not a description of things. It is that which communicates a significance.

Messages can be feelings, sensations, desires, repugnance—practically anything
that anybody is capable of thinking of. The idea is dominant. The technique exists to
forward the idea and give it punch and power.

Does somebody dawn a light ? How was the quote at the beginning ? Ah, yeah:

"Propaganda is that means which serves to influence the opinion of the individual without the person affected noticing it at all." (Adolf Hitler)

 

[Gottabrain]

WTF? You've started like 7 threads today on subjects you think would be interesting for us to discuss. Why don't you use the search menu and tack onto an old thread with a similar subject or better yet, have you considered starting your own website?

 

[uncover]

WTF? You've started like 7 threads today on subjects you think would be interesting for us to discuss.

Sorry, I thought that I only started 2 threads today and 7 in total:
http://www.forum.exscn.net/search.php?searchid=1737459

Why don't you use the search menu and tack onto an old thread with a similar subject .....

As a junior moderator I/C could you please be so kind and assist me with this ? Can you please merge it with the proper thread - maybe the perfect organized apollo-thread would be appropriate ?:
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?10103-The-old-days-Aboard-the-Apollo-1973/page1626

SMC, uncover

 

[SchwimmelPuckel]

"The conjurer cannot really do what he makes you think he does..." (Isaac Asimov, in 'Prelude to Foundation')

 

[Gottabrain]

You've stated you don't want to talk about any of your personal life. You seem to like to start threads every time you have a thought in your head of something "we" might want to talk about - not something YOU want to know, not something YOU are confused about, not something YOU wish to deal with, and you are not pulling up the more interesting threads or similar threads on similar subjects, so there is no "meat" to what you start. You are, in short, keeping the silly meaningless chatty fluff at the top of the General Discussions.

What exactly are you doing? I find this annoying and distracting and it clogs up ESMB as well.

 

[uncover]

Gottabrain,
I have to apologize that I started on this board by reading the board rules and that I got stuck at the term "Ad hominems":

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?2-Board-Rules

1. Treat others with respect.




You are to respect every other user on the board despite any personal, religious and political differences. The following will not be tolerated:

• Personal insults
• Ad hominems

Eventually I found an explanation here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
but I am still figuring. Maybe you could assist me to understand better what this term means ?:

You've stated you don't want to talk about any of your personal life. You seem to like to start threads every time you have a thought in your head of something "we" might want to talk about - not something YOU want to know, not something YOU are confused about, not something YOU wish to deal with, and you are not pulling up the more interesting threads or similar threads on similar subjects, so there is no "meat" to what you start. You are, in short, keeping the silly meaningless chatty fluff at the top of the General Discussions.

I really appreciate that such a strong and more knowing woman like you takes care of me and invests her valuable time to follow all my steps here on ESMB and teaches me what I do wrong and how I have to think about myself, my life and what I am doing. I don´t know how I can live without this and how I can thank you for that ! I already learned, that such a thread: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?28383-Zinj-the-great-debate is a more important matter here on ESMB.

SMC, uncover

 

[Gadfly]

I liked the OP.

There is MORE PR and PROPAGANDA in Scientology that just about anything else. It is all about changing minds and getting people to accept and believe some reality.

It is NOT about "truth", and ONLY about tricking people into AGREEING.

From Hubbard's PR Series:

"PR is a partially developed technique of creating states of mind in different audiences or publics."

"Agreement with ones message is what PR is seeking to achieve".

"PR IS THE SOCIAL TECHNOLOGY OF HANDLING AND CHANGING HUMAN EMOTION AND REACTION".

"Words are redefined to mean something else to the advantage of the propagandist".

What the dummies in Scientology often fail to realize is that THEY are one of the "publics" that Scientology management USES PR and propaganda upon. The "Scientology staff", "Scientology Sea Org members", and "Scientology org public" are EACH a unique public that Scientology PR and propaganda is carefully applied to.

And, as is so typical of Hubbard and Scientology, the Scientology PR and propaganda has as its ONLY TOP AIM:

". . . so that it can expand, prosper and be viable" (PR Series 5, PR DEFINITION).

"Truth" is entirely meaningless within the context of Hubbard's theories on propaganda and PR.

Hubbard well used his knowledge of such thngs when he created his subject and organization of Scientology.

In a nutshell, Scientology is a carefully designed endeavor that aims to GAIN AGREEMENT with various ideas (using the "tech" on PR), while generally IGNORING TRUTH and FACTS, so that the Scientology organization can expand and succeed (make lots of money). THAT is its MAJOR PURPOSE, that has always been its primary purpose, and all else that it claims and asserts, such as the aims of Scientology, the aim to free beings, the aim to improve conditions, and the aims to help Mankind, are all Propaganda and PR.

 

[Idle Morgue]

Scientology Propaganda is very noble, honorable, utterly fantastic stuff. It lights your purpose - stirs your fire to help! Then you try to BE noble, honorable, and purposeful in Scientology - well, that is an entirely different scene.

The events start to wear down and lose meaning after being in the Cult for a while - and it becomes drivel - much like LRH's books and lectures. You start to put the pieces together on how the Organization justify's it's criminal behavior with the TECH - there is always TECH to justify - ALWAYS!! Now the TECH to justify is to not communicate at all - just ignore ANY entheta!

This is the downfall of the Church of Scientology - it is too far gone! The lack of communication - the lack of applying the honest truth is taking them down faster than a mutiny. At least a mutiny will get rid of Miss Cabbage - but someone else will take his place and it will drag it out longer because some will have restored HOPE.

If the Church of Scientology has committed crimes against you and fails to make it right - simply ignore and step out of the way. The fail will happen faster. Don't give them anyone to communicate to - the public is already informed and they stay away in droves. The PSYCHS ignore them - they are no threat at all to the PSYCHS who are EVERYWHERE and the WORLD that is so dangerous simply is NOT.

So I say - step out of the way - keep informing others and watch the CULT go down!

 

[phenomanon]

I think its a good time to have a closer look at PR and propaganda. Here is one definition:
You have to promote it:


[video=youtube;918tcNfmOxY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=918tcNfmOxY[/video]


Does somebody dawn a light ? How was the quote at the beginning ? Ah, yeah:

message chopped up badly. Just for the Video.

Paul, can you do the 'screen grab' thing for the chick in the 2nd row behind the one in the gold colored dress on the 1st row? I think she could be one of my family members.



phenomanon

 

[JackStraw]

In the immortal words of Malvina Reynolds: "Propaganda or proper goose, it's the truth that counts."

Jack

 

[NoName]

WTF? You've started like 7 threads today on subjects you think would be interesting for us to discuss. Why don't you use the search menu and tack onto an old thread with a similar subject or better yet, have you considered starting your own website?

Huh? I counted 4 threads over 3 days with mostly non-overlapping subject matter. Uncover isn't even in the same ballpark as Rich or that dude from Egypt that pissed everyone off a few weeks back. And honestly, I find the subject matter interesting.

As an aside, it's almost more irritating for me to see a 3 year old thread resurrected than to see a new one pop up. Or risk a derail on a Marty is a bullshit artist thread about one video or blog post when you want to discuss why Marty is a bullshit artist on a different blog post. Hell, ESMB has an entire sub-forum dedicated to discussing why Marty is full of shit. It hardly needs to be contained to a single thread.

I guess my point is that one can allow for a certain amount of judgment in deciding whether or not to start a thread on something. So far I'm not seeing anything that looks like spectacularly *bad* judgement. Just another noob who wants to get things off his chest and will probably be content with lurking/replying to others after a few weeks.

 

[Dulloldfart]

Paul, can you do the 'screen grab' thing for the chick in the 2nd row behind the one in the gold colored dress on the 1st row? I think she could be one of my family members.

phenomanon

I'll do it if you give me a time (like 3:02 or something). But you can do it too. Make the video full size. Play it. Stop it at the right moment. Then hit the "print screen" key. That will copy the screen to your clipboard. Then paste it (Control V) to an image-editing program. I usually use Paint as it's so simple and I don't need anything more complicated for the task. Crop it, resize it (I usually do them 800 px wide), save it, then upload it to ESMB as an attachment. Takes less than a minute once you've got the stopped video onscreen.

Paul

 

[Gottabrain]

Gottabrain,
I have to apologize that I started on this board by reading the board rules and that I got stuck at the term "Ad homiminems"...

...I really appreciate that such a strong and more knowing woman like you takes care of me and invests her valuable time to follow all my steps here on ESMB and teaches me what I do wrong and how I have to think about myself, my life and what I am doing. I don´t know how I can live without this and how I can thank you for that ! I already learned, that such a thread: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?28383-Zinj-the-great-debate is a more important matter here on ESMB.

SMC, uncover

I don't think I could have possibly been more straightforward about what I found annoying. Maybe you should do a clay demo on the difference between "honesty " and "ad hominem".

Believe it or not, I haven't been following you. When new threads are started, they show up on the top and to the right and are the first thing to catch my attention.

You seem to have a great deal of experience at Internet forums and are lavish with personal cutting remarks. For one who has so little to say about yourself, I find this... interesting.

As well as the fact you've quickly lost that "foreign" accent, you've contradicted yourself quite a few times on personal posts, and you've snidely mentioned personal knowledge about me.

You (coincidentally) started posting like mad after Emma (and ESMB) were named on the top 25 list of 2012 of those taking down Scientology.

PR and Propaganda. Yes. All noted.

 

[Gottabrain]

Huh? I counted 4 threads over 3 days with mostly non-overlapping subject matter. Uncover isn't even in the same ballpark as Rich or that dude from Egypt that pissed everyone off a few weeks back. And honestly, I find the subject matter interesting.

As an aside, it's almost more irritating for me to see a 3 year old thread resurrected than to see a new one pop up. Or risk a derail on a Marty is a bullshit artist thread about one video or blog post when you want to discuss why Marty is a bullshit artist on a different blog post. Hell, ESMB has an entire sub-forum dedicated to discussing why Marty is full of shit. It hardly needs to be contained to a single thread.

I guess my point is that one can allow for a certain amount of judgment in deciding whether or not to start a thread on something. So far I'm not seeing anything that looks like spectacularly *bad* judgement. Just another noob who wants to get things off his chest and will probably be content with lurking/replying to others after a few weeks.

Thanks, NoName. Your points are well taken. You really hate to see old (good) threads resurrected? I didn't know anyone felt that way. Okay.

You are certainly right that there have been far worse people here for starting heaps of new threads. Remember that "I am a Scientologist" thread?

I see this Noob as trying to entertain (distract?) us, however, rather than getting a single honest thing off his/her chest or personally trying to find out anything here. There is a lot of news going on in Scn now and I've had to go to WWP to find it. It got buried here. Some of the best threads I've been on recently were also buried and it's time-consuming trying to find them again.

Noob does not come across as new in any way, either.

 

[The_Fixer]

Probably slightly aside here, and apologies in advance for the derail.

I remember when I was a NOOB here that I really wasn't familiar enough to navigate and/or search all the old stuff. Mostly because I wasn't sure of what I was looking for exactly. What caught my attention mostly was what is going on right now.

Remembering that one of our goals is to attract new members and to help get people away from the church. This may not be an actual policy, but I do regard it as at least an unwritten one. The old "grow or die" maxim. And principally, to save other human beings from the insanity they are stuck in and to help see through the propoganda and PR tripe. (<-that's my donation to the thread title! )

For new members and for myself, personally, I find it much easier to read through new postings and threads, even if they have been done to death. I also like it when some people resurrect old threads of interest as well. If the thread doesn't interest me, well, I don't have to read it. Sometimes I get a bit lazy to bother searching.

That's my 2c worth anyway. Otherwise,

 

[NoName]

You really hate to see old (good) threads resurrected? I didn't know anyone felt that way. Okay.

I don't object to resurrecting old good threads. Sometimes it's helpful to have the history behind a news update, for example. But other times trying to tie a comment into a historical thread that is only marginally relevant is more distracting than helpful.

There are also older advice threads that might be worth resurrecting because the advice has become relevant again. Like how to get people out of Int Base - I think I bumped that one recently. Another example was bumping the old Debbie Cook threads when another letter came out and ESMB was expecting some upstats.

I realize that different people have different preferences, so I'm willing to make allowances for people to exercise their judgment to a point.

Edit - One more thing and I'll shut up... Look at how many threads we have on Narconon Arrowhead, Debbie Cook, TomKat - sometimes people also have to use their judgment in not letting a thread get to 500+ pages and start new threads for each sub-plot in the $cientology Soap Opera. I happen to prefer shorter threads, but I'm only one person - again, that's an area where people can and should use their judgement.

 

[uncover]

You seem to have a great deal of experience at Internet forums and are lavish with personal cutting remarks. For one who has so little to say about yourself, I find this... interesting.

I still don´t think that I am an interesting person, but here is one information about me that should satisfy your interest. Don´t you think that as a global moderator since 2007 of a small board with currently this stats:

Total posts 185087 | Total topics 13023 | Total members 25565 | Our newest member *****

(and as admin of three other even smaller boards) that I should have some experience with Internet forums ? BTW, they are from technical nature and have nothing to do with Co$ - I have a life.

As well as the fact you've quickly lost that "foreign" accent, .....

Do you really have this impression ? My english teacher would be proud of me when I would present this to him. When I finished high-school the last words he said were: "Ok, you passed, but never look to an english book again"

You (coincidentally) started posting like mad after Emma (and ESMB) were named on the top 25 list of 2012 of those taking down Scientology.

I can´t comment on this because I don´t know which list you are talking about.

And as a sedative for you:
As moderator and admin (of other boards) I know that the IP-adress of the user is stored for every single post in the MySQL-database. Emma and Mick are able to tell you, that I am not hiding, that I use my real (static) IP-adress starting with 62.xxx.xxx.xxx and they are even able to find out my location and provider when they put my IP-adress in this tool:
http://www.ip-adress.com/ip_tracer/
And believe me, where I am living is not much OSA around und the official language is not english. And if Mick or Emma wants to have my name, adress and telephone number I am ready to send them by mail together with a copy of my passport and even some nice pictures of me.

So now what ? Can I get my peace now ?
If not, maybe you can start a thread "Is uncover an OSA-Agent ?" for the purpose that worthful threads don´t all the time become derailed with your speculations about my person.

 

[Gottabrain]

I don't object to resurrecting old good threads. Sometimes it's helpful to have the history behind a news update, for example. But other times trying to tie a comment into a historical thread that is only marginally relevant is more distracting than helpful.

There are also older advice threads that might be worth resurrecting because the advice has become relevant again. Like how to get people out of Int Base - I think I bumped that one recently. Another example was bumping the old Debbie Cook threads when another letter came out and ESMB was expecting some upstats.

I realize that different people have different preferences, so I'm willing to make allowances for people to exercise their judgment to a point.

Edit - One more thing and I'll shut up... Look at how many threads we have on Narconon Arrowhead, Debbie Cook, TomKat - sometimes people also have to use their judgment in not letting a thread get to 500+ pages and start new threads for each sub-plot in the $cientology Soap Opera. I happen to prefer shorter threads, but I'm only one person - again, that's an area where people can and should use their judgement.

Thanks. I get mostly annoyed when brand-new, meaty media is out and not even posted, or even buried. Like, I just posted one of two BRAND NEW articles on the Top 25 People Crippling Scientology 2012 - and I am NOT good at posting media (lots of editing) so find it a bit upsetting that really important stuff is not making it to ESMB.

There is a second article, too, if you would post it?

I mean - EMMA AND ESMB ARE ON THE LIST! What could be more relevant as a thread?!

There are some really golden advice threads here that are better resurrected than started new. Some posts were extremely inspirational - and I've not found that the initial inspiration often continues when a similar thread is taken up later.

For news, yeh, I see your point and mostly agree. Still, if it's just chit chatty things, not about advice, not particularly helpful to anyone, just gossip or personal interests or whatever, I'd personally like it to be in the chat forum. But that's just my opinion... as you say. Each to their own.

 

[Gottabrain]

...here is one information about me that should satisfy your interest. Don´t you think that as a global moderator since 2007 of a small board with currently this stats:

(and as admin of three other even smaller boards) that I should have some experience with Internet forums ? BTW, they are from technical nature and have nothing to do with Co$ - I have a life.
...

<emotional responses snipped>
...
So now what ? Can I get my peace now ?
If not, maybe you can start a thread "Is uncover an OSA-Agent ?" for the purpose that worthful threads don´t all the time become derailed with your speculations about my person.

You are the ONLY person who said OSA. I didn't even infer it.

What now is - can you please answer my question, which I have now asked you twice:

What are you doing?

That doesn't mean I am accusing you of being OSA (your paranoid reaction was unwarranted). It means, since you are not here to sort out your personal issues, not here to learn about anything - WHY are you here?

It's a very straightforward question. Is it possible to get a straightforward answer?

ADDED: Administrators at ESMB never release personal info of any kind that they have as Administrators - never did, never will - and I wouldn't even ask.

 

[Sindy]

Wow. Rough crowd.