Just a little corner in cyberspace

[Intentionally Blank]

Mini Review: My spouse is a long time scn. I am not and have never been part of the church. If s/he knew I was here, or perhaps even knew this place existed, it is likely our marriage would be over. For sure if s/he knew I posted here. We have at least one very close family member who has been shunned because of expressing doubts or even asking what I would consider rational questions about the scn claims. My intro thread is here http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?29672-Is-it-safe-to-say-anything

I know a little bit about scn. More about the criminal and unethical acts than about the philosophy/technology. I probably know enough about that to sound intelligent for about 30 seconds. I've read very little of Hubbard's work - primarily because the writing style annoys me. I read all kinds of things that differ from my pov - as long as they are well written. I think I skimmed Self Analysis a long time ago. Yep, annoying.

In any event. Why am I here? I probably don't have a good answer for that. Company for my misery? Help sorting out the insanity? Advice on how to help my spouse who is not doing well? All of the above, perhaps. Someone to talk to whose been there. I only have on RL friend I confide in but without having been in the church it's hard to understand what I experience. I have friends who are currently in the church. I often wonder if they have doubts - but of course I wouldn't dream of asking. Sometimes I feel like I'm playing a double agent. It's not a comfortable place to be. I think it's rational conversation about scn, tech, claims, whaterver that I'm looking for.

I really want to tell you about this dear person I am married to and my confusion about how scn is probably causing harm. I don't even know where to begin and I don't want to, can't, give details that would identify who we are. garrrrrrrr......

I think s/he's depressed. Possibly severely. I wonder if it's created by scn. S/he has memory issues that are debilitating. They may be family trauma related........ but I think the "church" may have made them worse.

S/he's been off, if you will, since the NYE event. I didn't attend - but it's a phenomena I've noticed before. It could be my imagination but there seems to be .... distance and fogginess .... after events at the org.

Thanks for listening. There's more, but that's a start and it helps to get it out of my head.

Blanky

 

[This is NOT OK !!!!]

Sorry to hear about your circumstances.

You're not alone!

So many members here have family in the cult and are treading on egg shells to save relationships - I'm among them.

Peace.

 

[still here]

Hello IB

Welcome!I was very moved by your post. (and inspired by your rapid dismissal of Ron Hubbards work! - wonderful!!) You have impressed me.

What an awful position you are in. I do know that you can find help and support here and certainly people who understand your position and can listen.

I was in the Sea Org many, many years ago, my current husband and I have been married for almost 30 years, he too was a scientologist but luckily we both both moved away from it, I did a lot to help him as he was really not sure about leaving...but he had not been in the SO, so I was able to convince him, quite quickly, that the road to sanity lay totally away from anything Scn. He also suffered from depression.

You are in a very difficult and lonely position, and the way to make sure you maintain your sanity is to hold on to the fact that everything about scientology is insane...and dangerous and threatening. (know your enemy) and if you ever doubt that, get onto here and talk and read!! You already know this, and you should also be very sure that there is nothing in Scn that can help your spouse - nothing.

I worry about your spouse because many people are drawn to Scn to handle something (usually identified as their "ruin" - whatever they consider to be ruining their lives)...I have met several who initially struggled with feeling depressed..so your spouses feelings or condition may pre-date Scn - however whatever the timeline, Scn will not and cannot help him/her, and without actual effective, real help he/she will probably find it tough.

All is not lost though because he/she has you - and you are watching - so even if there is nothing you can do right now, you will be there when it crashes, and you will be there to look for real solutions. We will be Here for you.


I feel for what you are experiencing - you are showing real love and care for your spouse, and everyone here will help you all they can.

Good luck, and talk all you need to!!

Still




.

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Mini Review: My spouse is a long time scn. I am not and have never been part of the church. If s/he knew I was here, or perhaps even knew this place existed, it is likely our marriage would be over. For sure if s/he knew I posted here. We have at least one very close family member who has been shunned because of expressing doubts or even asking what I would consider rational questions about the scn claims. My intro thread is here http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?29672-Is-it-safe-to-say-anything

I know a little bit about scn. More about the criminal and unethical acts than about the philosophy/technology. I probably know enough about that to sound intelligent for about 30 seconds. I've read very little of Hubbard's work - primarily because the writing style annoys me. I read all kinds of things that differ from my pov - as long as they are well written. I think I skimmed Self Analysis a long time ago. Yep, annoying.

In any event. Why am I here? I probably don't have a good answer for that. Company for my misery? Help sorting out the insanity? Advice on how to help my spouse who is not doing well? All of the above, perhaps. Someone to talk to whose been there. I only have on RL friend I confide in but without having been in the church it's hard to understand what I experience. I have friends who are currently in the church. I often wonder if they have doubts - but of course I wouldn't dream of asking. Sometimes I feel like I'm playing a double agent. It's not a comfortable place to be. I think it's rational conversation about scn, tech, claims, whaterver that I'm looking for.

I really want to tell you about this dear person I am married to and my confusion about how scn is probably causing harm. I don't even know where to begin and I don't want to, can't, give details that would identify who we are. garrrrrrrr......

I think s/he's depressed. Possibly severely. I wonder if it's created by scn. S/he has memory issues that are debilitating. They may be family trauma related........ but I think the "church" may have made them worse.

S/he's been off, if you will, since the NYE event. I didn't attend - but it's a phenomena I've noticed before. It could be my imagination but there seems to be .... distance and fogginess .... after events at the org.

Thanks for listening. There's more, but that's a start and it helps to get it out of my head.

Blanky

My heart goes out to you.

I'm gonna go waaay out on a limb here and tell you what I think from the small amount you are comfortable relating...which, by the way, I completely understand the reason why.

If this "downer" period foots with the NYE Events it may be these Events...which are designed to "Impinge" may be causing him/her to internally "question" and feel uncomfortable and "boxed in"...either by their relationship with you and how you are (not a Scns) or their relationship with Scn and how it is. If so, I hope it's the latter which may well be why they don't discuss whats "going on" with them whin they are depressed. It's also possible they were pressured into spending dough on Scn that you don't know about and that is weighing on them, or they are being pressured about you not being a Scn.

It is possible that the memory issues are Scn related but maybe not. Trauma and age are a factor as well as other things. However, there is stuff in Scn that can really screw up people with Trauma by making them "Look" at, "Confront" or "Handle" it...either in Auditing, Ethics actions or Regging (the hard core selling techniques).

I wish you and your spouse well.

Face

 

[Freeminds]

Welcome!

Sorry to hear about your troubles. They're all too common. You know, to me it sounds somewhat like having a drug addict in the family. Basically, no matter how much you love each other, at the back of the addict's mind, they're trying to figure out how to fund the next fix. It consumes them.

Scientology does the same.

Having been called in to an event, a Scientology victim will have been told that s/he has got to defend the 'church' (which they claim is being attacked by the government, a cabal psychiatrists, journalists, law enforcement...), get "up the bridge" (because one's 'eternity' is at stake), and contribute to whatever fundraising scam is the flavour of the month. IAS / VMs / Ideal Org Scam or whatever.

Your spouse may have noticed that certain other people are missing from the shrinking ranks of attendees, or old friends have been declared, or something. That's depressing because those peope have "lost their eternity" or "become brainwashed"... or it may simply be depressing to think that somebody else managed to pluck up the courage to leave the cult, but s/he can't. Maybe because of what's in his or her 'PC' files (confessional), or because of the (fictional, unenforceable but scary to a Scientology victim) "freeloader debt" for a staff member who's leaving.

Another source of depression may be money worries. He or she may even have pledged money in the heat of the moment, or had something charged to a credit card (a card that you may or may not know about) and s/he may be wondering how on Earth the debt can be paid off. This is the 'heroin' of a Scientology addiction, and this is how it's bought. The Scientology cult is all about money. It's what they want from their victims, and they're damned good at extorting it.

Another reason for anxiety or depression is because the 'Tech' isn't working. ("There must be something wrong with me! Everybody else is attesting to these marvelous things, and I have to just keep quiet, or even lie. I have to pretend that the Tech works because the alternative is that they make me repeat a level, and I can't afford that...") The sad truth is that everybody is feeling the same way. The emperor has no clothes: Scientology delivers nothing of value... but you're not allowed to discuss your 'case'.

How do you help in this?

You take your loved one away, out of the reach of the 'drug dealer' (Scientology), just for a couple of weeks. A second honeymoon or similar nice holiday in a distant place where there are no cult facilities. Choose your city with care. Once there, you don't mention UFO cults at all... just focus on happy things like shared experiences, good food, exercise, leisure time, family... all the fun stuff that a person who serves Scientology has to compress down to nothing, and ignore. Get them away from the 'org' for a couple of weeks, and s/he will start to THINK again. Just show how much better life can be, when it isn't devoted to serving "the group"... but to taking time to reflect.

Time to "sharpen the saw"... something that Scientology victims never get.

A few decent holidays, and almost any cult victim will see real life as being more attractive than giving over their life to play out a Cold War fantasy contrived by a dead man. (But you don't need to be the 'bad guy' who criticises Hubbard... just concentrate on making the leisure time as good for both of you as possible. You deserve it! And leisure time is something completely alien to Scientology. It's cult Kryptonite, in fact.)

Best wishes, and stay in touch. I hope one day we'll be able to welcome you BOTH here - and hear the full story.

 

[Intentionally Blank]

Sorry to hear about your circumstances.

You're not alone!

So many members here have family in the cult and are treading on egg shells to save relationships - I'm among them.

Peace.

Thanks for the good thoughts. Sorry to hear you are dealing with something similar.

 

[SchwimmelPuckel]

Yes.. A scientologists is depressed, maybe even severely. But a scientologist is also very effectivly indoctrinated to pretend they are not depressed. Or any other 'misemotion'. A scientologist lives in a 'reality' where his 'case' maybe solved with the next service. He is a 'responsible' person, he takes great pride in that, so all the previous 50 failed and abhorrently expensive 'services' is not Hubbard's or Scientology's fault. That's his own fault. He can't help but wonder that he may be an SP. Because having no case gain mean that he is. But he can still convince himself that he had some case gain. But it gets harder with time.

The above is my personal recall of how it was like. I wish I could tell you what to say to make they guy snap out of it. But I also recall that nothing anybody could say would help any.. I needed to figure it out on my own.

 

[Intentionally Blank]

Hello IB

Welcome!I was very moved by your post. (and inspired by your rapid dismissal of Ron Hubbards work! - wonderful!!) You have impressed me.

.....

I was in the Sea Org many, many years ago, my current husband and I have been married for almost 30 years, he too was a scientologist but luckily we both both moved away from it, I did a lot to help him as he was really not sure about leaving...but he had not been in the SO, so I was able to convince him, quite quickly, that the road to sanity lay totally away from anything Scn. He also suffered from depression.

You are in a very difficult and lonely position, and the way to make sure you maintain your sanity is to hold on to the fact that everything about scientology is insane...and dangerous and threatening. (know your enemy) and if you ever doubt that, get onto here and talk and read!! You already know this, and you should also be very sure that there is nothing in Scn that can help your spouse - nothing.

I worry about your spouse because many people are drawn to Scn to handle something (usually identified as their "ruin" - whatever they consider to be ruining their lives)...I have met several who initially struggled with feeling depressed..so your spouses feelings or condition may pre-date Scn - however whatever the timeline, Scn will not and cannot help him/her, and without actual effective, real help he/she will probably find it tough.

All is not lost though because he/she has you - and you are watching - so even if there is nothing you can do right now, you will be there when it crashes, and you will be there to look for real solutions. We will be Here for you.


I feel for what you are experiencing - you are showing real love and care for your spouse, and everyone here will help you all they can.

Good luck, and talk all you need to!!

Still
.

LOL! Thanks. (I will hold fast to the thought you are not easily impressed )

I often wonder if my dear one would leave if someone high up in this org left in a big way. (I even have my #1 choice all picked out. ) But I know s/he's heard the news of some of the bigger names who've left around the world. Of course they are now brainwashed enemies. And there's a whole lot of venom when s/he says those words. I can't foresee that leaving is in the cards - the dependence is very high, to the point of desperation I sometimes think. I wonder often what will happen when the "church" does crash for real. Will some cultie with money step in a pick up the pieces so even if DM goes crashes and burns big time business still goes on as usual? And then I wonder if a complete crash would trigger a depression in my spouse too deep to ever recover.

And yes, I worry about my integrity and sanity. I grew up in a very tolerant atmosphere. I have friends and family of all different religious persuasions - a few I think are a little nutty. A few I would classify as cults. But .... none of it is the same as what I've experienced with scn. Of course, I wasn't married to any of the other ones which always changes how it feels. I feel like a double agent.

I agree there were likely severe pre-scn mental health issues. S/he thinks scn was the lifesaver. But there is no increase in focus or ability - quite the opposite in fact. S/he has a very difficult time staying in "present time" and on task.

Blanky

 

[Intentionally Blank]

My heart goes out to you.

I'm gonna go waaay out on a limb here and tell you what I think from the small amount you are comfortable relating...which, by the way, I completely understand the reason why.

If this "downer" period foots with the NYE Events it may be these Events...which are designed to "Impinge" may be causing him/her to internally "question" and feel uncomfortable and "boxed in"...either by their relationship with you and how you are (not a Scns) or their relationship with Scn and how it is. If so, I hope it's the latter which may well be why they don't discuss whats "going on" with them whin they are depressed. It's also possible they were pressured into spending dough on Scn that you don't know about and that is weighing on them, or they are being pressured about you not being a Scn.

It is possible that the memory issues are Scn related but maybe not. Trauma and age are a factor as well as other things. However, there is stuff in Scn that can really screw up people with Trauma by making them "Look" at, "Confront" or "Handle" it...either in Auditing, Ethics actions or Regging (the hard core selling techniques).

I wish you and your spouse well.

Face

Thanks, that helps.

S/he may be pressured about me not being in the church. I know that was the case in the past and it came within about a quarter of an inch of ending our marriage. I am very very careful about what I say. (And, right here, there are things I would like to say but think it would be imprudent.) I think it's a feeling of failure. Not participating in enough courses/services. Not advancing. And feeling that if s/he could only do more then the rest of life would be better. I wonder, though, if I'm being blamed for the lack of engagement. Our finances are completely separate and have been for our entire marriage so it's not that I hold any purse strings or control over where s/he spends money.

 

[Intentionally Blank]

Welcome!

Sorry to hear about your troubles. They're all too common. You know, to me it sounds somewhat like having a drug addict in the family. Basically, no matter how much you love each other, at the back of the addict's mind, they're trying to figure out how to fund the next fix. It consumes them.

Scientology does the same.

OMG. Yes. Of course it is. Seen that before.

Having been called in to an event, a Scientology victim will have been told that s/he has got to defend the 'church' (which they claim is being attacked by the government, a cabal psychiatrists, journalists, law enforcement...), get "up the bridge" (because one's 'eternity' is at stake), and contribute to whatever fundraising scam is the flavour of the month. IAS / VMs / Ideal Org Scam or whatever.

Your spouse may have noticed that certain other people are missing from the shrinking ranks of attendees, or old friends have been declared, or something. That's depressing because those peope have "lost their eternity" or "become brainwashed"... or it may simply be depressing to think that somebody else managed to pluck up the courage to leave the cult, but s/he can't. Maybe because of what's in his or her 'PC' files (confessional), or because of the (fictional, unenforceable but scary to a Scientology victim) "freeloader debt" for a staff member who's leaving.

Another source of depression may be money worries. He or she may even have pledged money in the heat of the moment, or had something charged to a credit card (a card that you may or may not know about) and s/he may be wondering how on Earth the debt can be paid off. This is the 'heroin' of a Scientology addiction, and this is how it's bought. The Scientology cult is all about money. It's what they want from their victims, and they're damned good at extorting it.

Another reason for anxiety or depression is because the 'Tech' isn't working. ("There must be something wrong with me! Everybody else is attesting to these marvelous things, and I have to just keep quiet, or even lie. I have to pretend that the Tech works because the alternative is that they make me repeat a level, and I can't afford that...") The sad truth is that everybody is feeling the same way. The emperor has no clothes: Scientology delivers nothing of value... but you're not allowed to discuss your 'case'.

I often wonder, but have no way to ask, if there isn't some degree of cognitive dissonance going on. S/he's so adamant that everything (everything) that comes from the mouth of the "church" is 100% infallibly true. I just can't imagine there is no doubt at all. Maybe that's some of the memory issues .... if you can't remember, or, don't remember, then when you come across inconvenient facts they don't really register. Seriously, the memory stuff is so bad I often wonder if I'm living with someone who is a multiple personality.

How do you help in this?

You take your loved one away, out of the reach of the 'drug dealer' (Scientology), just for a couple of weeks. A second honeymoon or similar nice holiday in a distant place where there are no cult facilities. Choose your city with care. Once there, you don't mention UFO cults at all... just focus on happy things like shared experiences, good food, exercise, leisure time, family... all the fun stuff that a person who serves Scientology has to compress down to nothing, and ignore. Get them away from the 'org' for a couple of weeks, and s/he will start to THINK again. Just show how much better life can be, when it isn't devoted to serving "the group"... but to taking time to reflect.

Time to "sharpen the saw"... something that Scientology victims never get.

A few decent holidays, and almost any cult victim will see real life as being more attractive than giving over their life to play out a Cold War fantasy contrived by a dead man. (But you don't need to be the 'bad guy' who criticises Hubbard... just concentrate on making the leisure time as good for both of you as possible. You deserve it! And leisure time is something completely alien to Scientology. It's cult Kryptonite, in fact.)

Best wishes, and stay in touch. I hope one day we'll be able to welcome you BOTH here - and hear the full story.

I wish I thought it would make a difference. S/he's been out, in the earlier years of our marriage, for up to a year at a time. And then one thing or another pulled back in. I just want to do whatever I can to help make life a little better, a little easier, and little clearer (uhmmmm but not the scn way), as little safer. S/he is a good, dear person and it makes me sad to see what seems to be a declining ability to navigate daily life.

Blanky

 

[Intentionally Blank]

Yes.. A scientologists is depressed, maybe even severely. But a scientologist is also very effectivly indoctrinated to pretend they are not depressed. Or any other 'misemotion'. A scientologist lives in a 'reality' where his 'case' maybe solved with the next service. He is a 'responsible' person, he takes great pride in that, so all the previous 50 failed and abhorrently expensive 'services' is not Hubbard's or Scientology's fault. That's his own fault. He can't help but wonder that he may be an SP. Because having no case gain mean that he is. But he can still convince himself that he had some case gain. But it gets harder with time.

The above is my personal recall of how it was like. I wish I could tell you what to say to make they guy snap out of it. But I also recall that nothing anybody could say would help any.. I needed to figure it out on my own.

Yeah, I know. A colleague in a completely different field said to me once: "When someone decides to get help nothing will stop them. Until then, nothing anyone else says can make them get well." It's completely true. And so very hard to face.

Blanky

 

[Intentionally Blank]

Just some random peeves. I've come to hate certain words: handle, confront, com, lines, ethics (why are ethics about stats??), conditions....

What the heck is word clearing? Do people really go through entire dictionaries? Really? My mother made us look stuff up when we didn't understand. But even she didn't proactively send us to a dictionary to make sure we understood every word. Or, am I misunderstanding word clearing?

Has anyone else commented on what seems to be a purposeful misuse of some words? I admit it's picky, but I'm a word geek at heart. Danger and Emergency are completely backwards in the conditions. And what's up with vilifying introversion?

Mmmm... and postulate. It makes me want to hit something.

I hate "events". In my world an event is not watching a video of someone else's ... well .... event. That's seriously lame. And another misuse of a word. Not to mention hours of DM sounding like a combination of a used car salesman and a game show host on crack. Too loud, too bright, too lying. Garrr. And biting my tongue doesn't help either. I just want to stand up and shout "what is wrong with you people??" I'll let you know if I ever get to that point. Years and years ago, when I was young and naive, I did say something really awful at an event. Maybe twice. I'm a slow learner. It did not Go Well. Heh.

Ok, I'm whining. I'll stop now. It feels really good to be able to say something. Anything. It's been a really long time. Thanks for listening.

 

[Intentionally Blank]

Ok I lied. I'm still whining. I'm reading around the boards and so many things are coming up for me that I've never been able to say. Maybe I'm peeling off my own layers.

More dislikes:
Cognition
Mind
Immortal being
grant beingness
the denial of anything the brain does
meat body
the earth is hell

I might be spewing. Don't step in it.

Blanky

 

[David C Gibbons]

Dear IB,

I am impressed that you manage to continue to care for your Scientology addict. (To borrow the analogy used previously.) You were really smart to keep finances completely separate, and you should periodically check to make sure they are staying separate. Scientologists (like me many years ago) will allow themselves to get talked/pressured into doing things with money that are wrong.

The thing to remember is that Scientologists are fed justification after justification for actions of the Church, Church representatives, and for their own actions such that the normal parameters of decent behavior are ignored.

Honor, justice, truth, all can be compromised by a dedicated Scientologist if those things get in the way of what some agent of the Church wants. Even if your significant other deeply cares for you, the people in or at the Scn Mission, Organization, Event, or Scientology-Affiliated group cares nothing for you, and will think NOTHING of having your significant other harm you if serves the purpose of that person.

THEY DON'T CARE! (Ignore the words, those are just tools, lies are also completely justified to the dedicated Scientologist.)

Specifically, L. Ron Hubbard told his followers "Never be afraid to harm another in a just cause". Can you guess what the just cause is? People who are in Scientology are generally not homicidal to those outside the church, but in matters financial, they should NEVER be trusted, becuase of the way the Church of Scientology is run.

Yes, there are well-meaning people in Scientology. There were well-meaning people in Jim Jones' People's Temple. Things still went to hell because the culture of the People's Temple was insane. The same is true of Scientology. It is amoral, it is rapacious, it is completely irresponsible.

You may already know most or all of what I am saying. I just am going on about this because my wife of 33 years dumped me in favor of Scientology. (I am in no way unique in this, by the way.)

OK, positive things to say - continue to be there, and be a safe person. The idea of taking the sufferer on holiday to remind them of how much nicer the real world actually is compared to Scientology is a great idea. Scientology has ways, imperfect though they may be, of sniffing out disloyalty. This can be a powerful deterrent to your companion in speaking freely in any way about Scientology. Perhaps others on the board can suggest ways to provide safe openings for doubts to be expressed.

On the depression issue: 1) Scientology itself, as described previously, can be and is often a powerful driver of depression for those trapped in the Church. The Church is structured and run to keep the rank-and-file Scientologists believing that they are helpless against the power of the Church. 2) Scientology, through its ineffectiveness and refusal to allow any other forms of help to its practitioners, can perpetuate an individual's depression, PTSD, or other mental/spiritual/physical problems for years.

I know this from personal experience, as my own serious psychological problems went unaddressed, and indeed worsened, during my decades in Scientology. Once I got out, and didn't have the madness of Scientology surrounding me, was I able to truly acknowledge I was sick, and start to get real help to get it addressed.

Actually, now that I think about it, keeping people 'broken' is convenient for the Church. The Church and its agents can continually offer the carrot of 'help', year after year. "Just keep trying, you'll make it", "Gee, you just aren't trying hard enough yet, that's why you haven't gotten better. You have to be more dedicated. (and give us more money)"

Hopefully your companion will wise up MUCH sooner than I did. Life will be so much better for both of you when that happens, and I pray to whatever that it happens soon. Talking to us is certainly a step in the right direction. There are a lot of good people here, even if they growl at each other from time to time.

Hugs,

 

[sallydannce]

Ok I lied. I'm still whining. I'm reading around the boards and so many things are coming up for me that I've never been able to say. Maybe I'm peeling off my own layers.

More dislikes:
Cognition
Mind
Immortal being
grant beingness
the denial of anything the brain does
meat body
the earth is hell

I might be spewing. Don't step in it.

Blanky

I don't read your words/views as whining. I see someone finding their voice.

Keep going if it helps. I admire what you are trying to do.

 

[dchoiceisalwaysrs]

WoW, I can really feel where you are coming from Intentionally Blank.

From my initial thoughts, which I had, and were posted by afaceinthecrowd, your spouse is definitely under some stress and it is hard on you too as you are not sure what to do. My ideas, depending on how well you talk with your spouse, is to just come out and mention his/her lack of concentration and lack of remembering when they happen and say you noticed it and you are concerned as a loving spouse and would like to help him/her get through this difficult time by discussing what is on her or his mind.

Of course there could be a nutritional component, a sleep component or a work or medical condition. Have you talked about those?

With those in mind, I do lean towards what aface said and since I am not by any means an expert I would recommend you getting the ebook mentioned here.

http://freedomofmind.com/Media/bookFreedom.php


It might give you an enhanced understanding and lead to a resolution and your spouse being whole again. I recommend you read it before following any ideas I had posted above.

very sincerely I wish you the best.

 

[sallydannce]

WoW, I can really feel where you are coming from Intentionally Blank.

From my initial thoughts, which I had, and were posted by afaceinthecrowd, your spouse is definitely under some stress and it is hard on you too as you are not sure what to do. My ideas, depending on how well you talk with your spouse, is to just come out and mention his/her lack of concentration and lack of remembering when they happen and say you noticed it and you are concerned as a loving spouse and would like to help him/her get through this difficult time by discussing what is on her or his mind.

Of course there could be a nutritional component, a sleep component or a work or medical condition. Have you talked about those?

With those in mind, I do lean towards what aface said and since I am not by any means an expert I would recommend you getting the ebook mentioned here.

http://freedomofmind.com/Media/bookFreedom.php


It might give you an enhanced understanding and lead to a resolution and your spouse being whole again. I recommend you read it before following any ideas I had posted above.

very sincerely I wish you the best.

Good stuff dchoiceisalwaysrs (and Face).

I was just looking at Steve Hassan's site and going to post some stuff here for Blanky. Thanks for bringing it to this thread.

 

[Dean Blair]

I was in Scientology for 40 years! My wife was also a Scientologist. Staying in Scientology for so long was a disservice to our children. When I first got in I separated from anyone who was not on the bridge to total freedom and surrounded myself with other true believers. This was a mistake. I hope that you will find a solution for your predicament that suits you. If I knew back then what I do know now I would not have become a Scientologist regardless of what actions I had to take. I wish you well.

 

[dchoiceisalwaysrs]

Good stuff dchoiceisalwaysrs (and Face).

I was just looking at Steve Hassan's site and going to post some stuff here for Blanky. Thanks for bringing it to this thread.

Having been promised greater heights (heaven if you will or not) yet led through a mirage of lies and severely scorched by betrayal one can through the good hearts here on ESMB find one's feet again and walk free of the con into a cornucopia of humanity.

Just trying to pass on some of the great benefit I have received by so many here.

It is my hope that compassion and wisdom will dissolve the chains that hold back a blossoming partnership for the Blanky's.

 

[Intentionally Blank]

Dear IB,

I am impressed that you manage to continue to care for your Scientology addict. (To borrow the analogy used previously.) You were really smart to keep finances completely separate, and you should periodically check to make sure they are staying separate. Scientologists (like me many years ago) will allow themselves to get talked/pressured into doing things with money that are wrong.

The thing to remember is that Scientologists are fed justification after justification for actions of the Church, Church representatives, and for their own actions such that the normal parameters of decent behavior are ignored.

Honor, justice, truth, all can be compromised by a dedicated Scientologist if those things get in the way of what some agent of the Church wants. Even if your significant other deeply cares for you, the people in or at the Scn Mission, Organization, Event, or Scientology-Affiliated group cares nothing for you, and will think NOTHING of having your significant other harm you if serves the purpose of that person.

THEY DON'T CARE! (Ignore the words, those are just tools, lies are also completely justified to the dedicated Scientologist.)

Specifically, L. Ron Hubbard told his followers "Never be afraid to harm another in a just cause". Can you guess what the just cause is? People who are in Scientology are generally not homicidal to those outside the church, but in matters financial, they should NEVER be trusted, becuase of the way the Church of Scientology is run.

Yes, there are well-meaning people in Scientology. There were well-meaning people in Jim Jones' People's Temple. Things still went to hell because the culture of the People's Temple was insane. The same is true of Scientology. It is amoral, it is rapacious, it is completely irresponsible.

So let me ask - would you go into business or a business agreement with someone who is a scientologist? Assuming they are in the "good people" category, would the money issue leak over into a business arrangement?

You may already know most or all of what I am saying. I just am going on about this because my wife of 33 years dumped me in favor of Scientology. (I am in no way unique in this, by the way.)

I am so very sorry. I can very easily imagine what that must have been like.

OK, positive things to say - continue to be there, and be a safe person. The idea of taking the sufferer on holiday to remind them of how much nicer the real world actually is compared to Scientology is a great idea. Scientology has ways, imperfect though they may be, of sniffing out disloyalty. This can be a powerful deterrent to your companion in speaking freely in any way about Scientology. Perhaps others on the board can suggest ways to provide safe openings for doubts to be expressed.

And I suppose just good quality one on one recreational time is helpful as well? We may not have holiday time until the summer months but we do have days off together that we could spend together.

On the depression issue: 1) Scientology itself, as described previously, can be and is often a powerful driver of depression for those trapped in the Church. The Church is structured and run to keep the rank-and-file Scientologists believing that they are helpless against the power of the Church. 2) Scientology, through its ineffectiveness and refusal to allow any other forms of help to its practitioners, can perpetuate an individual's depression, PTSD, or other mental/spiritual/physical problems for years.

I think I'm seeing a bit of both.

I know this from personal experience, as my own serious psychological problems went unaddressed, and indeed worsened, during my decades in Scientology. Once I got out, and didn't have the madness of Scientology surrounding me, was I able to truly acknowledge I was sick, and start to get real help to get it addressed.

Yes, that's it exactly! I would be far less concerned about the church involvement if real help was available at the same time.

Actually, now that I think about it, keeping people 'broken' is convenient for the Church. The Church and its agents can continually offer the carrot of 'help', year after year. "Just keep trying, you'll make it", "Gee, you just aren't trying hard enough yet, that's why you haven't gotten better. You have to be more dedicated. (and give us more money)"

I know one of the things s/he wanted to do this year is to get back to auditing but there are some stumbling blocks. I wonder if there wasn't a discussion around that issue that didn't go as hoped. That might account for some of the worsening I think I'm seeing.

Hopefully your companion will wise up MUCH sooner than I did. Life will be so much better for both of you when that happens, and I pray to whatever that it happens soon. Talking to us is certainly a step in the right direction. There are a lot of good people here, even if they growl at each other from time to time.

Hugs,

Thanks I see there are a lot of good folks. I don't mind the growling - I assume it's the reactive mind doing it's thing

Blanky